Conference 7.286::golf

    Yes, it is against the rules. I don't know the exact rule number
    though. My book is in my golf bag at home.
    
    Mike

    
      Is it my imagination or do "pro" courses lack 150 yard markers
    or any other type of yardage indicators thru the green?  I first
    noticed this (or imagined) when playing number 2 at Pinehurst.

	However it is permissable to carry a little book containing the
	yardages from different points on the course to other points
	greens, hazards, etc.  They (PGA pros) are also given precise
	pin positions in feet from front & side edges.

	If you add those two you can come up with a very precise distance.
	Why that doesn't break the USGA rule doesn't make logical sense. ;-)
	Then again what in this game does.  You have to hit down to make the 
	ball go up, you don't try to hit the ball hard, but swing easy...
	It's not a logical game.

	Larry

	re: .2

	Notes collision.  Actually I remember reading that they remove
	them for the event.  Given my prior note that definitely doesn't
	make sense.

	Larry

    Rule 14-3 Artificial Devices and Unusual Equipment
    
    Except as provided in the rules, during a stipulated round the player
    shall not use any artificical device or unusual equipment:
    
    	a. For the purpose of gauging or measuring distance or conditions
    which might affect his play;
    
    (it goes on but I don't type too good)
    
    As far as distance, the pros are using what is called a caddie book. 
    Most courses have them (I know mine does), and it shows distances from
    selected spots on the course to the green or tee etc and is considered
    public information.  Rule 8 defining advice excludes "matters of public
    information...... such as the position of the flagstick on the green."
    The interpretation is that you may tell somebody where the flag is and
    how far they are from it, but you may not tell them what club to hit
    unless of course it's your partner in match play.
    
    
    						KO

    Yardage books don't seem like artificial devices to me. They are
    simply reference material that give you distances between recognizeable
    points on the golf course. Even if you have a yardage book, the
    bottom line is the golfer must still determine the distance to the
    flagstick.
    
    A lot of courses I play have yardages emblazened on sprinkler heads.
    I'll give you a good reason for yardage books and sprinkler head
    aids: it speeds up play. I don't know about the rest of you, but
    if I know roughly how far I am from the hole, getting the club out,
    making a practice swing and then hitting the ball happens a lot
    quicker!
    
    Mike

    Thanks for all the responses.
    
    rich

    
    Another question.  In the spring, my home course, Grand View CC
    in Leominster, gets very wet on several holes.  Wet enough that
    one some holes, 2 and 4, its possible to plug a ball 3 or 4 inches
    into the mud.  What's the ruling on plugged balls assuming that
    they are not plugged on the bank of a water hazard?  What if a 
    a ball is hit to the fairway but can't be found because it plugged?
    What if the ball is found, but unplayable? 
    
    
    Steve

    Re: .6

>    Yardage books don't seem like artificial devices to me. They are
>    simply reference material that give you distances between recognizeable
>    points on the golf course. Even if you have a yardage book, the
>    bottom line is the golfer must still determine the distance to the
>    flagstick.

    I agree with you Mike.  Especially when you are playing a strange
    course.  I especially like them because I am near sighted so I have
    problems gauging distances to the yard.  I hope you didn't take my
    prior note with too much seriousness.  I believe that the USGA had
    to bend the definition in Rule 8 several years ago to make caddie
    books clearly conforming.  I find it peculiar that the PGA removes
    the 150YD markers but allow caddie books.


>    A lot of courses I play have yardages emblazened on sprinkler heads.
>    I'll give you a good reason for yardage books and sprinkler head
>    aids: it speeds up play. I don't know about the rest of you, but
>    if I know roughly how far I am from the hole, getting the club out,
>    making a practice swing and then hitting the ball happens a lot
>    quicker!

    I agree that yardage information can readily speed up play.  However
    I have had wasted my share of time trying to find the stupid sprinkler
    head that the caddie book calls out.  I prefer yardages from easier to
    find objects like traps, trees, 150 stakes.

    I hope that one of the improvements that Stow made on the 8th hole on 
    the South Course is make the 150yd. marker easy to find.  It was pretty
    difficult to find on that wide fairway.
    
     Larry

    Re:                -< What about plugs >-

    To paraphrase rule 25-2 a ball plugged in it's own ptich mark can be
    lifted, CLEANED, and dropped where it is embedded.  It restricts this
    priviledge to closely mown areas (to fairway height).

    Your course should institute a local rule when this condition exists.
    If your course doesn't do this on a global basis you should should
    negotiate with your foursome to institute this rule.

   I can sympathise with you.  I have lost more balls in the fairway on 
   the 4th hole on the South course at Stow (see prior note on peat bog!)
   during an especially wet spring.

   Larry

   PS. I enjoy these discussions about rules because they keep me familiar
   with them.  To pick a nit with the original note title the USGA & R&A
   jointly maintain the rules of golf.  The PGA does modify those rules with
   a series of local rules for tournament play.

  That brings up the question does any one have/know where to get a copy of
  the PGA local rules?

    Re: Lary W:
    
    No offense taken. I was merely stating that I think distance markers
    (or caddie books) are great and I am glad they exist.
    
    About getting PGA local rules... I don't know if the publish them
    in an official book or if they just list them on a sheet of paper.
    They don't have too many local rules. The most interesting one is
    the one about golf ball useage. You must use the same brand, make
    and number golf ball.
    
    That is, if you begin a round with a ProStaff 3, 100 compression
    and Balata cover, then you must use this kind of ball for the entire
    round. It's there mostly to prevent the use of balls like Top-Flites
    on only long par 3's.
    
    Mike

    Speaking of local rules....
    
    I'm sure many of you have seen OUT OF BOUNDS markers in between
    holes e.g. 9th hole is OB from 5th hole.  This seems to be done
    mostly to keep players from cutting a dogleg.
    
    Is this local rule illegal in a PGA or USGA event?
    
    Dan
    

Typically, any out of bounds designated within the confines of the golf course
is a local rule.  The PGA tour avoids the "in course" out of bounds.  I think
in course out of bounds is stupid (my own opinion) because if the architect had
designed the course correctly, then there would not be a need for it.

Anyone remember the "Hinkle tree" incident?  A few years ago during the US Open,
Lon Hinkle discovered you could make a hole shorter by playing down an adjacent
fairway.  This goes to show you that the PGA does not use the in course out of
bounds rule.  However, the PGA dealt with the problem differently.  It is 
dangerous for someone to hit down an adjacent fairway deliberately so they
went out and purchased a 40-50 foot pine tree and overnight, planted it so that
you could not shoot for the adjacent fairway.  The tree was dubbed the "Hinkle
Tree" (how appropriate).

Mike

re: .13

>Typically, any out of bounds designated within the confines of the golf course
>is a local rule.  The PGA tour avoids the "in course" out of bounds.  ...
>
>Anyone remember the "Hinkle tree" incident?  A few years ago during the US Open,
>Lon Hinkle discovered you could make a hole shorter by playing down an adjacent
>fairway.  This goes to show you that the PGA does not use the in course out of
>bounds rule.  However, the PGA dealt with the problem differently.  ...

Well you started off ok, but you got off track.  The US Open is run entirely by
the USGA not the PGA tour.  It is preferable to set up the course so there
are no out of bounds within the confines of the course.  However there is
nothing to prohibit them from defining them.

I have seen PGA tournaments where these sort of out of bounds exist.  A couple
of weeks ago the Seniors werre playing in Tampa and there were OB markers
along the woods on one hole.  The undergrowth was pretty severe there.  
Sometimes they are to protect the surrounding property.  (Remember the shot
OB on the 18th at Harbour Town 2 years ago that gave Davis Love the 
tournament.)  At the tournament where Couples pulled his drive into the lake on
18 the other side of that pond was OB.  I remember noticeing that the stakes
were white and thought it odd.  I figured that it was due to the fact that 
there was no easy way to get to the other side.

Generally the use is for personal safety protecting golfers in parallel
fairways from wild shots and golfers cutting the corners.  I wish more golfers
paid attention to them.  I remember one round at Sandy Burr where I wished
I had a helmet.

Larry