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Conference 7.286::golf

Title:Welcome to the Golf Notes Conference!
Notice:FOR SALE notes in Note 69 please! Intros in note 863 or 61.
Moderator:FUNYET::ANDERSON
Created:Tue Feb 15 1994
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2129
Total number of notes:21499

1627.0. "Help Building a Green Green!" by JULIET::MEYER_ED () Fri Feb 05 1993 16:58

    Golphers Help??
    
    Sorry to do this to you this time of year, I know it's cold in most of
    the US, but...
    
    I'm in the process of building a Golf Green in my back yard.  Yes!
    
    So far I've laid it out to be about 16 by 44 feet.  What I need now is
    some help on how to prepare the soil (sand/soil mix, etc.) and what 
    kind of grass to plant, etc.
    
    Can anyone recommend a good book?  Or an expert greenskeeper?
    
    	...>Ed (It's just for fun, I don't personnaly play golf)
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1627.1You gotta be kiddingSONATA::FEENEYnon golfers live half a lifeFri Feb 05 1993 19:411
    You ouhta play if you have that much time to spare!
1627.2How about it?OPS5::OSTROMKnowledge Based Systems Prod. Mgmt.Sat Feb 06 1993 01:195
    My grandfather used to have a green in his back yard.  I'd like to
    think about doing something like this, too.  Anyone got pointers to
    some reference materials.
    
                                   Andy
1627.3POWDML::VARLEYMon Feb 08 1993 11:495
    You might contact UMass in Amherst, and ask for the number of the
    Stockbridge Turf School. I'm sure they'll need info from you and a soil
    sample.
    
    __Jack
1627.4ROYALT::RASPUZZIMichael Raspuzzi - LAT Engineering et alMon Feb 08 1993 15:334
Check out other notes in this conference too.  I believe this
has been discussed once or twice...

Mike
1627.5TIMBER::WHEELERMon Feb 08 1993 15:4911
    
    
    If you build it are you going to buy the green cutting, and air-ator
    machine to maintain it?...
    
    Somewhere in the notes conference said it was like $30,000 to build
    a green...Heck for that kind of $$$ I'd go to a golf course with a
    practice green area..
    
    
    
1627.6$30,000 can probably get you into wonderful coursesROYALT::RASPUZZIMichael Raspuzzi - LAT Engineering et alTue Feb 09 1993 21:487
    >Somewhere in the notes conference said it was like $30,000 to build
    >a green...Heck for that kind of $$$ I'd go to a golf course with a
    >practice green area..
    
    And a pretty decent course at that!
    
    Mike
1627.7Can't be $30K.ANDREW::OSTROMKnowledge Based Systems Prod. Mgmt.Tue Feb 23 1993 18:5112
    Gee, $30K sounds like a lot of money for dirt and grass.  (I've
    bought ALOT of dirt recently).  Even at $30 per cubic yard (way high,
    fill is $7, crushed stone $12 to $15, loam about the same) you could
    buy 1000 cubic yards of material (stone, gravel, dirt, etc) resulting
    in a green 30' wide by 30' long, with 30' deep soil?  I own a
    backhoe, so the digging/spreading is free, and how much could the
    seed cost?  I'd think that the most expensive part would be the
    mower.

    I'll look through the notesfile and see if I find any references.
    
                                Andy Ostrom
1627.8some cost considerations for a golf greenROYALT::RASPUZZIMichael Raspuzzi - LAT Engineering et alTue Feb 23 1993 20:56150
Don't forget some other things that come into the money category:

- Irrigation.  Sometimes a lawn sprinkler with a hose might be good enough.
  Sometimes it isn't.

- Water - do you have a well?  If so, how about the electricity to move that
  water onto your putting green every night when mother nature fails to supply
  it?  If you get town water, how much does that cost you?  When I worked at
  a course, we watered all 19 greens every night in the summer when it did
  not rain.  We ran about 4 in-ground sprinklers for approximately 15 minutes
  per green (at about 2-5am - that's the best watering time).

- Fertilizer and other chemicals (like pest control, weed control, iron to
  keep the grass green, fungicides, etc).  Without chemicals, in the summer
  time around New England, you could loose a whole green in one night to
  pythium.  Ask Pleasant Valley - a few years ago, they lost several over
  night.  Chemically treating the green is a constant thing as well.
  The saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" really
  applies here.  Right now it costs me about $150 per year for lawn
  fertilizer that I put down 4 times a year on 10,000 sq feet.  But will
  you find chemicals needed for a golf green that cheap?  Probably not.
  Also, I don't put down iron or magnesium or lime on my lawn whereas
  you may want to do that on a green.

- Labor.  How much do you consider your time and effort worth?  You have to
  change the holes from time to time too - that takes time.  If you don't
  the lips of the holes start to sag a lot.  Don't forget you will want to
  mow the green every day.  You'll also want to de-thatch it maybe 2 times
  a year (we did it 6 to 10 times a year at the country club - more on that
  in a second).  In the spring, frost heaves will probably wreak havoc on
  your green too.  You will have to roll it which takes time and you will
  need a roller (but you could probably rent one from a local rental place).

- Since you will probably want to mow at least 4 or 5 times a week, be prepared
  for blade sharpening and replacement for your mower.  Not to mention
  preventative maintenance you must do on the mower.  After all, it is
  mechanical...  At the course I worked at, the mowers were all overhauled
  maybe twice a year but the blades (especially for greens and tees) needed
  constant sharpening and height calibration.

  By the way, if you decide not to mow as frequently, keep in mind that you
  will damage the grass each time you mow it if you slice off more then
  1/3 of its length.  You can usually get away with that for your lawn but
  when you are talking about grass that is about 3/16 of an inch, you will
  for sure see the grass brown in a very short time.  Just getting the bent
  grass low enough for putting is a pain.

- Frequent mowing also contributes to thatch build up.  Boy, does thatch
  love to slow down greens.  And you need special kind of thatching reels
  for your mower for a golf green.  The kind you would use on your lawn
  would practically destroy a golf green.  We used to "verticut" the greens
  6 to 10 times per year depending on how fast they were.  Our triplex mower
  came with detachable reels that could be swapped for "veticut" reels.  With
  a walk behind greens mower, you may not get so lucky...

  Not only does thatch slow down a green but build up can speed up disease
  and "choke" the grass (lack of nitrogen towards the roots).

- What about heavy rains?  You might have to use a squeegy to remove
  access water from the green.  Too much water is just as damaging as
  not enough and can contribute to an attack of pythium.

- Do you plan on having an bunkers around the green?  That could set you
  back a few bills.

- Speaking of sand, don't forget you will want to top dress the green from
  time to time.  We used to do it 3 times a year to speed them up.  And by the
  way, the sand used in top dressing dulls the mower blades in no time at
  all.

- Then there's aerification.  Don't you hate it when golf courses cut those
  small plugs out their greens?  Well, it is routine maintenance that is
  typically down 2 or 3 times a year (spring, maybe once in the summer, and
  most definitely in the fall).  Aerifiers aren't cheap either (whether you
  rent it or not).

- Most courses also overseed their greens in the full to keep it thick.  Since
  you may not see as much traffic as they do, you may not need to do this.
  However, I would for the first 2 or 3 years until the root system is well
  established.  So, don't think that seed is a 1 time purchase.  You may find
  yourself buying 1 or 2 more bags then you planned if you overseed.

- If your green is not level to the rest of the ground, how do you plan to mow
  the banks?  We used fly mows for banks and each fly mow was about $500 to
  $1000 each.

- How about time estimates?  Sure, here's some of the things I remember:

	o It takes about 7 to 10 minutes to mow a 2000 sq foot green with
	  a hydraulic triplex mower.  Of course, those go for about $20,000
	  so you would want a hand mower.  Figure at least 3 times longer
	  (because you will have 1/3 the cutting width) and maybe slightly
	  more because you won't walk as fast as a riding mower.  Remember
	  to wash your mower afterwards - grass as it decays forms an acid
	  that will most certainly shorten the life of your mower's metal
	  parts.

	o Top dressing requires you to spread out the sand before working it
	  in.  With a machine, it takes about 3 to 5 minutes to evenly spread
	  a think layer of sand.  If you use a shovel, expect a lot longer then
	  that.  Then you need a steel mat to drag along and work in the sand.

	o Figure about an hour or more for 1 sprinkler, maybe 30 minutes for
	  2 sprinklers each time you water the green.

	o It takes about 2 minutes to change each hole.

	o Aerification will take you about as long as mowing (maybe a little
	  longer).  Then you will have to rake up the plugs that were removed.

	o Fly mowing a bank takes about 15 to 20 minutes (depending on the size
	  of the area).

	o Spreading chemicals will take time.  If you have liquid chemicals, it
	  will probably take a little longer by hose (maybe 10 to 20 minutes).

	o Blade removal, sharpening, and replacement will run you an hour.

	o Mower engine work could take you all day.

	o Rolling a green will take maybe a half hour.

	o Overseeding will take some time (if you don't have a slicer to do the
	  seeding, you should do it after you aerify in the fall).  Seeds won't
	  germinate very well if they don't come in contact with soil.  This
	  activity could range from 10 minutes to an hour depending on how you
	  do it.

While it is true that you may never shell out $30k of your hard earned
cash, you have to consider that it is going to cost you some $$$s for
certain items while others (your time and patience) cannot really be
measured.

When I worked at a golf course, it was easy to determine the cost of
a putting green.  All the head greenskeeper had to do was figure out
the cubic yards of material needed to build all 19 greens, the amount
it costs for the chemicals, seed, water, irrigation equipment, electricity
to run the water pump and how much time to build each green (and you
can figure out the labor costs based on time).

You certainly won't be taking on the building of 19 putting greens of
varying sizes so I would expect that your costs might be somewhat
lower.  Anyone out there have a putting green in their backyard that
can supply us with ballpark figures?

The amount of time you want to spend on this green depends.  You could
spend probably next to nothing but chances are, your green will reflect
that.  The more money you put in, the nicer it will probably look.

Mike
1627.9POWDML::VARLEYWed Feb 24 1993 13:098
    Probably one of the most important considerations is ballast - the
    layered configuration of rock, sand and soil under the surface of the
    green. Type of ingredients, and depth for each is critical. Surface
    soil and type of grass, given climate conditions are key, too. 
    
     What a wealth of info from Mike ! Great job !
    
    __Jack
1627.10ICS::SOMERSWed Feb 24 1993 14:0817
    About 15 years ago I began working at the Wollaston Golf Club when they
    were building the course.  It was fascinating watching the amount of
    labor, time and care it took to build each green.  The course
    superintendent told me two of the most important aspects were drainage
    and disease control.  On these greens, they had a 2 foot sand base for
    drainage (whereas the tee boxes had a 1 foot sand base)! 
    After getting the contours exactly right and putting down the topsoil,
    the builders proceeded to place a layer of heavy plastic over the
    entire green surface, taping all seams and making the perimeter of the
    plastic airtight.  Then they had some kind of machine that blew 
    in a chemical vapor that was supposed to kill off ALL bacteria,
    disease, etc. in the soil.  The last step was seeding, and seeding,
    and seeding the green.
    
    Good luck to whomever takes on this project.
    
    Gary
1627.11DPDMAI::VENEZIOPerfect Practice Makes PerfectFri Mar 05 1993 18:507
    Mike, what a great job. I'm out of breath just reading your reply. With
    all that work, who has time to putt??
    
    I'll stick to that short drive to the club for practice and leave the
    horticulture to someone who cares.
    
    Ken