Conference 7.286::golf

    Pasatiempo (just South of San Francisco) is a MUST. The Monterey
    courses (Pebble Beach, Spyglass and Poppy Hills are great, but
    expensive. Poppy is probably the cheapest at around $75. Old Del Monte
    might be a good bet in that area, as might Harding Park in San
    Francisco). Too many near L.A. to mention - how 'bout it, SCD ?
    
    __Jack

    
    DO NOT PASS UP THE OPPORTUNITY TO PLAY PEBBLE BEACH!!!!!!!
    
    It is expensive, but it is worth it, especially considering how
    far you are travelling.  I believe green fees are $225.  They
    have golf packages which make it cheaper if you stay at THE LODGE.
    The package I had in July was 3 nights + round at Pebble Beach +
    round at either (Spyglass Hill or Spanish Bay) for $540.  Additional
    rounds at Pebble Beach are $150 if staying at THE LODGE.
    
    As .1 mentioned, Pasatiempo is a very good course and doesn't hit
    you as hard in the wallet.  If you are going to play several of
    these courses near San Francisco, play Pasatiempo first and Pebble
    Beach last.
    
    I'm not sure of the dates, but the L.A. Open at Riviera and the AT&T
    Pro-Am at Pebble Beach are potential chances for you to see the pros
    in action.
    
    Just to reiterate my first point, don't be afraid to buy the best
    you will not be disappointed.  Pebble Beach is probably the best
    course you will ever play.
    
    								_Greg

    re: Pebble Beach.
    
    I played  PB off season, which I would tend to believe is still now,
    and the green  fee  was  more in the $150.  It is even cheaper if you
    play in the late afternoon.
    
    Tavo

    Three nights at The Lodge, and two rounds of golf (1 at Pebble) for the
    price stated is pretty reasonable. I heard The Lodge was
    mega-expensive.
    
    __Jack

    
    I suspect this was in fact not the best deal that could be had.  I
    stayed at THE LODGE and played PB two weeks after the U.S. Open
    which was the 4th of July weekend.  Don't go through a travel agent.
    Call the LODGE directly and inquire about package deals.  I'm not
    at all sure what is in or off season for that area.  I required a
    sweater when playing the stretch along the ocean in July.
    
    Do not expect to play to your handicap the first time you play PB.
    I was a 10 handicap, hit 12 of 14 fairways, had 7 pars and 1 birdie
    and shot 100 (43,57) the first day.  Pebble is by far the best course
    I have ever played.  If you really enjoy golf, do not pass on the
    opportunity to play Pebble Beach.

    If you are any kind of golfer, you gotta play Pebble Beach.  Take a
    camera and sneak a lot of pictures.  You will be the envy of folks back
    home.  I have played it twice about a year ago and still remember every
    hole and most of the shots I played.
    
    Dalip

Add me to that list - if you can it is a MUST play. How many times do you
get the chance to play a Pebble Beach? You'd hate to look back 20 years
from now and say "if only ..."

I do want to add that if you cannot play, it is still very easy to walk the
course. I saw lots of folks out for a stroll last summer - even joining us
on the 18th tee! So if you can't play, try to spend an hour walking - it is
still beautiful!

Eric

    Ulla,
    
    If your trip starts in LA a few things are important to know before we
    can suggest a golf itenerary.  Are you driving or flying to SF.  How
    many days do you have to make the trip.
    
    Where in LA will you be?  How much is too much to spend on golf?
    
    All the talk about Pebble is quite accurate, but for a 19 handicapper I
    am not sure if there is $150-200 dollars of value.
    
    Consider the following
    
    LA area - Try a round at Industry Hills about 20 miles east of LAX. 
    About $45 dollars and has two courses.  One was a women's LPGA location
    until they thought it was too diffcult.  Very pretty and has some
    unique holes and one of the worlds only Funnicula (gravity operated
    tram) to get you from one level of the course up to the upper level.
    
    If you have a chance to go to Palm Springs (at least 2 days to kill)
    then the drive, abput 3 hours from LAX is well worth it.  Great courses
    and fun times.  The Marriott Desert Springs has a special at $98 per
    night per room that includes golf.
    
    If you are driving north, then take the coast road Pacific Coast
    Highway and plan to stop at Sand Piper in Goleta(Santa Barbara).  A
    great course, every hole has an ocean view.  As you continue up the
    coast there are numerous courses, and Pasatiempo has already
    recommended.  The courses in the Carmel area are all truly spectacular
    but for the value, it is hard to beat Poppy Hills.  The Old Del Monte
    course is on the grounds of the Hyatt Hotel and is the oldest golf
    course in the western U.S.  Carmel Ranch has two courses and so does
    Laguna Seca.  
    
    Once you know your open dates there is more golf than you can believe. 
    The drive up the coast this time of year can be
    spectacular...sun,rain,fog all in the same day.
    
    SCD

    First of all - thanks to all of you for your replies.
    
    We'll arive in LA and depart in SF. Since we'll be travelling 
    with a mobile home, we would like to go to San Diego and then
    up north. Your question regarding how much is too much to 
    spend on golf should be answered by my friend ... however,
    I think that it should be simply reasonable .. and that's up
    to him, since I'll decide after the trip, whether I become
    a golfer or not ! As far as I see it up to now, I'll probably
    have no chance to avoid it.
    If you have any further suggestions, pls. don't hesitate to
    add 'em here. BTW, are you answering from the west coast?
    Would be nice to meet you. 

    Yes , I am west coastal.  Work in the Irvine office.  As for golf, if
    you  head to San Diego first, you have a sorts of options.  Some great
    courses in the San Diego area...such as Torre Pines (36 holes), Carmel
    Mountain Ranch (east of San Diego), Singing Hills (45 holes) and a new
    must see if you can only play once called Aviara (just northof San
    Diego)
    
    Hope you have a great trip.  Bring your rain gear because we are having
    a winter to make up for the last 6 drought years (39 inches of rain as
    compared to a normal for the year of 15)
    
    SCD

HEY SCD,
   where the heck is the second course at Laguna Seca ? I play there
2-3 times per year and they don't even have a driving range, let alone
another course. Maybe you were thinking about Rancho Canada.

  Ulla,
    If you get to the Monterey area, then you must play Pacific Grove
Muni. It was designed by the same gent that did PB . It is shorter,
has front 9 in the woods and back nine is in the sand dunes. Very pretty,
and at last check, is only $17 on the weekends. A good test for a mid-
handicapper. I live in Northern California and would be glad to meet and
maybe even play some golf.

Jim Cooper aka Mad Hacker

    As always, SCD offers some good advice, but I am suprised that he did
    not mention Pelican Hills, which is very near his office in Irvine. 
    That is a beautiful course and worthy  of consideration.  As you  head
    south to San Diego, you might want to consider La Costa, where the
    PGA's Tournament of Champions is played and which could offer some
    great packages - room, some food, etc. about $225/night with unlimited
    golf and practice range - 36 hole layout, so playing 36 or 45 in a day
    is easy.  While I haven't played it yet, I am told by a reliable source
    that you should consider Tijeras Creek in Santa Margarita, telephone
    714.589.9793(on your way to San Diego, from the 405 South, take OSO Parkway
    east, I'm told the green fees are $75 a little better than Pelican
    Hills).  If you go to Sandpiper you may want to consider a course just
    north in Lompoc, which is operated by the same people, and I believe is
    a better course, it is La Purissima.  From here, we play Sandpiper  on
    Saturday, spend the night at the Embassy Suites in Lompoc, play La
    Purissima on Sunday and then return.
    
    I agree about Pebble Beach, although the accommodations are going a bit
    down hill since Marvin Davis sold.  It is a once in a lifetime
    opportunity and the beauty is breathtaking.  If you have a Country
    Club affiliations with a reciprocal agreement with Cypress Point, play
    there.  It is much better maintained than any course I have ever seen. 
    My son's caddy said "Why not, when you only  play 50 rounds per
    week..."  I don't know how accurate that is, but the course is
    magnificint.
    
    Further north, if you have some university connection, get on the
    Stanford course.  Also, in San Francisco, if you can play the Presidio,
    it is excellent.
    
    Just some thoughts, if the weather is especially cool, which I doubt by
    then, you might want to go inland and play Rio Bravo in Bakersfield, on
    your way to Frisco.
    
    There are just so many options it is difficult to tell you.
    
    Big Mac  

    One Ton
    
    As always I should defer to you re: NoCal golf.  I was under the
    mistaken impression the Laguna Seca had two courses, one designed by
    Arnold Palmer.  But Oh well.  They do race motor cycles there, right?
    
    Big Mac
    
    I did not mention Pelican because I was focusing on either cost or
    name/value.  Pelican is way too expensive $125 on weekends for most
    travelers on a budget.  If I had that kind of money to spend I would
    save it for Monterey.  As for La Costa, the same thing.  Unless you are
    into paying twice as much as you should for golf and amenities just so
    you can say you were there.  Again, I would spend the money at Pebble. 
    As for Tijeras Creek, it is a pretty course that has fallen victim to
    the same issues $$$.  $45 weekdays and $60 on weekends.  If I was
    spending the money and only in the West once, I would spend it at
    Monarch Beach and at least see the ocean, or spend it at Aviara and
    then Sandpiper to see the ocean.  A lot of the courses in
    SoCal are now catering to what I call "customer golf" that can be
    expensed or deducted.  The prices are artificially hi due to demand and
    the courses are not always as advertised. For my money, I would
    recommend several days in Palm Springs or several days in Monterey and
    at least experience the uniqueness of the area and not the traffic.  
    
    
    SCD
    

    I'm going to be in the Santa Clara area at the end of March and would
    like to play. Can anyone give me more specifics about Pasatiempo, such
    as where it is, cost, and maybe a phone #. Also, where else, other than
    Pebble Beach area would you suggest?
    
    Thanks.
    
    Jim
    

    Hey One Ton....Have at it.  This one is yours.
    
    SCD

Ok,
    Where will you be staying when you come out to California.
How long will you be here, how far are you willing to drive to
play, how much are you willing to spend ? 
   I don't have my course directory with me today but will bring
it in on Monday to formulate a more informative reply.

Mad Hacker

    Mad Hacker,
    
      I only have 1 day to play and will be in the Santa Clara area. I'll
    drive an hour or so and would like not to have to pay exorbitant
    prices. Lets say under $50 greens fees.
      Does that work in California?
    
      Thanks.
    
    Jim

    re .13 So Cal Dandy:
    
    You are correct on price at Pelican, I went there to entertain a
    customer, who subsequently  committed $4,000,000 to  us.  But, I think
    you should look again at La Costa, which is now under $200 per day, 
    with  breakfast  and  dinner  at  some  of  the  finest resturants in
    the world, unlimited golf (easy  to play  both 18's daily), free
    admission to the spa, free use of the  range and world class
    entertainment at night, plus you  can say  I played  the Tournament of
    Champion's course.  The last time I played, it was in magnificent
    shape, the only better maintained course that I know of is Cypress
    Point.
    
    It is interesting to see what people react to as expensive.  I find the
    $40 at Sandpiper to be too high, because the course just doesn't excite
    me that much (mainly because of slow play and too easy par 3's), while
    I will  gladly pay the same at La Purissima (operated by the same
    people).  A friend played Pelican Hill after 4:00pm and said it was
    $40, which  I don't find excessive for that course.  Well I guess we
    are getting a horse race together...
    
    So Cal, as always your advice is well considered and knowledgeable even
    if I don't agree with all of it.  May all your drives be long and
    straight with just a little draw, your approaches be on the pin and
    you play just well enough to lose to me...
    
    Big Mac

                     <<< Note 1624.17 by POWDML::SHUMAN >>>
                                -< Pasatiempo >-

    Mad Hacker,
    
      I only have 1 day to play and will be in the Santa Clara area. I'll
    drive an hour or so and would like not to have to pay exorbitant
    prices. Lets say under $50 greens fees.
      Does that work in California?
    
      Thanks.
    
    Jim

    > Sorry to take so long to respond to this but due to training, vacation,
      and illness I have not been in much this last month. Pasatiempo is in
      the $75 range, within in easy range of Santa Clara are several good
      that are all under $50.  In Santa Clara there is the Santa Clara GOlf
      and Tennis club (very close to SC I, II, and III ). In Milpitas there
      is Summitpointe, and in south San Jose there is Santa Theresa GC.
         All three of these courses is well worth the $25-$40 green fees.
     Hope I haven't provided this info to late to help.

Mad Hacker

    Sunnyvale Municipal isn't too bad! and cheep.
    

    Hello all,
    		I'll be in California on holidays from 17th of February 
    until the 27th.  I plan to play 1 or 2 courses around Frisco and also
    fly/drive to San Diego and play there.
    
    The info in here is excellent on the courses etc.  I would like to 
    get some phone numbers for Pebble Beach and any other courses you
    might recommend.  What should I pack for tthe weather over there?
    
    Anybody available for a game around that time?
    
    
    			Regards John Kilroy.  
    				Dublin.
    				Ireland
    
    

John,
    You have reached the right guy !!! A lot depends on how much you
want to pay to play !!!!

   Some examples:

            Monterey area-

                   Pebble Beach          $ 225
                   Spyglass Hill           175
                   Links at Spanish Bay    135         
                   Pasatiempo               95
                   Poppy Hills              65 (with me) $95 without me
                   Laguna Seca              50
                   Rancho Canada            60
                   Pacific Grove            28 (called "Poor-mans Pebble") 


    There are many more courses to choose from with most being $50 or less.
A lot depends on where you are staying, how far you want to drive to play,
etc.

   I don't know very much about the Southern Cal courses but if you are
going to San Diego there is always Torey Pines (Tour stop), also there
are many courses available in that area both public, resort, and private.

   Do you have any connections to private clubs ?? I don't unfortunately.

   I will be playing in a tournament on Feb 21st but would be available
any other day to go play somewhere. Last year, I took a couple from Germany
to play at Poppy Hills and they thouroughly enjoyed it. It is very difficult
and also quite scenic. I also highly recommend Pacific Grove. It is a muni
but the same gentleman that designed Pebble Beach did this one. The back
nine plays through the sand dunes along the coast and is a real treat.

Weather wise, you need to be prepared for a temperature range of 30-70
degrees F. Usually on the Monterey peninsula during late February it will
be sunny and mild (60-70) in the daytime. But as anywhere along a seacoast
you have to be prepared for just about anyhting. Our wet season is getting
off to a slow start so could pick up by then also.

Hope this helps !!

 Jim Cooper aka Mad Hacker

Raybok::cooper
James Cooper @ lvm
Dtn 570-3060
direct dial 510-373-3060