[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference 7.286::golf

Title:Welcome to the Golf Notes Conference!
Notice:FOR SALE notes in Note 69 please! Intros in note 863 or 61.
Moderator:FUNYET::ANDERSON
Created:Tue Feb 15 1994
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2129
Total number of notes:21499

1568.0. "PGA Championship-Major or Not" by DPDMAI::VENEZIO (Perfect Practice Makes Perfect) Mon Aug 10 1992 19:51

    Have we been too busy working or is the PGA Championship not a real
    major??
    
    In any event, I believe the PGA starts Thursday and handicapping is a
    favorite of many.
    
    Here goes:
    
    Elkington is ready for a major
    Leitzke (sp.) He's always there
    Sluman
    Wadkins
    
    How about your picks.
    
    Ken
     
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1568.1" No Chance"MASALA::DMILNELet Mi Oot.Mon Aug 10 1992 20:5914
    There are a lots of disscusions whether the PGA should be a major or
    not.???
    Personally I think that any competition that has the top 75 or 100
    in the world  competing,should be a major..8>)
    
    Here are my fav's for next week.......
    
    1. Faldo. 
    2. Couples.
    3. Lyle.
    4. Love.
    5. Daly
    
    
1568.2It is a "major" - but maybe not the majorest...8')COMET::PINARTue Aug 11 1992 20:2315
    
    It'll probably always "stay" a major...Unfortunetly, all majors can't
    be ranked as "the best" or the "most important."  So - the PGA happens
    to be the one that has sort of fallen by the wayside.  "Golf", being what
    it is in respect to tradition, will probably always keep it as a major.
    
    It is still looked upon as a major.  John Daly wouldn't have gotten
    near the recognition he has gotten had he won say the "Buick Open."
    Good thing - too, IMO...
    
    BP.
    
      oh - my prediction...I'll go with Fred.
    
    
1568.3KOALA::DIAMONDNo brag, Just fact.Tue Aug 11 1992 21:517
    
    I think Tom Kite has a chance. I think he got past that
    never-winning-a-major syndrome. He's been hitting the ball well this
    year. But then again what do I know. I never watch the game (too
    boring to watch). But I love to play.
    
    Mike
1568.4Daly is a disgracePEKING::ANTELLJWed Aug 12 1992 11:5911
    The PGA is a toy town event the USPGA who know nothing about golf will
    never let Daly win another they made it so long last yr he won easy
    this yr it will be deep rough like Pebble Beach where the luckiest
    golfer wins like Kite on the last day, not the best golfer.
    I hope they have learnt thir lesson cos Daly is an embarrasment to
    the game playing the last rd of the Masters in 1 hr 45 or something
    golf is one of the last sports where people act in a correct manner win
    or lose and that Berk is a disgrace.
    
    
    Joe
1568.5Was .4 in Ancient Sumerian ?MRKTNG::VARLEYWed Aug 12 1992 13:043
    Huh ?
    
    --Jack
1568.6what he say?INDEV1::GSMITHI need two of everythingWed Aug 12 1992 13:164
    
    	.4  ... say again? 
    
    	Smitty
1568.7gawd......COMET::PINARWed Aug 12 1992 13:406
    
    
    ahem....anyway - ....as we were saying?  
    
    
    
1568.8Admit it its Micky Mouse golf PEKING::ANTELLJWed Aug 12 1992 13:4928
    Why do the USPGA trick up a course like Pebble Beach why are they so
    concerned if the best golfers in the world shoot 10 under for 4 rds
    i bet the PGA is a joke course as the US Open always is.
    My point in note 4 is the PGA caught a cold they made it so long only
    the longest of hitters had a chance last yr, for their trouble they
    ended up with John (look at my Haircut) Daly as a Chmp or should
    it be chump.
    Was Tom Kite the luckiest at Pebble Beach or the best ?
    
    The Open played at traditional links land is left as it always is not
    made stupidly hard,
    How about for next yrs US Open have a raffle to see who gets first
    prize its like that anyway at present only they play golf and the
    luckiest golfer wins.
    I have played golf in Florida Kissimee Golf Course and California
    Torrey Pines in San Diego and they are pathetic compared with British
    Courses i have played.
    Sunningdale
    Wentworth
    Royal Lythem
    St Andrews
    Downshire
    Royal Ascot
    and many more what about their HCP system laugh i nearly bought a
    round!!!!!
    
    
    Joe
1568.9DPDMAI::VENEZIOPerfect Practice Makes PerfectWed Aug 12 1992 14:0612
    Re .4 and last:
    
    Granted Daly was long and was able to overpower the last PGA, but don't
    forget who came in second. Kenny Knox. One of the shorter hitters on
    tour.
    
    Don't get carried away with the fact that Daly won because of his
    length. Kenny Knox posted a score that would have one the last 10
    PGA's. Daly had his moment and more power to him. He's immature and
    will learn to handle it like everyone else does.
    
    Ken
1568.10Some sense out therePEKING::ANTELLJWed Aug 12 1992 14:1817
    What i meant by the length being wrong was a lot of the top players
    just gave up , yes Kenny Knox did do well but i bet you the PGA dont 
    make a Major Championship course so long again.
    There is more to the game of golf than power ,touch, imagination,
    an ability to control the ball work it high work it low that is a true
    champion.
    Having said all that i hope i have not offended you American readers
    i think a US based player will win cos its a US style course.
    
    Its the worst Major though, in a pecking order its is
    Open,US Open,Masters,...........US PGA.
    
    John Cook should have won the Open he choked it was a shame that is the
    worst thing to watch on a golf course no matter what nationality.
    
    
    Joe
1568.11...Daly must have made some putts, eh?COMET::PINARWed Aug 12 1992 14:2423
    
    .8
    
    Jeez - I can understand your beef (to a certain extent) with some
    of the various course set-ups - which is another topic, but why take
    shots at Daly...?  It isn't his fault.  He's good for the game and
    there should be no argument with that?!  
    
    If you want to bitch about course set ups fine...but, try to be
    objective.  If anything, most U.S. courses are being designed as
    "target" golf courses...so, what the hell, when we have some tourney's
    where somebody can go out there and knock the piss out of the ball 
    occasionally - more power to em'.  By staying "objective", what I mean
    is, if the course isn't set up for your favorite AUTOMATON European
    player, then - oh well?...don't bitch about the "mickey mouse course."
    They'll have THEIR time - somewhere else - at another major.
    
    European's courses are *different*...not "better".  Older...not "better".
    etc...
    
    Anyway - I think my point is...drive for show - and you know the rest!
    
    BP
1568.12To MR PINAR Personal MailPEKING::ANTELLJWed Aug 12 1992 14:3922
    Sorry i did not realise that Ben Hogan had a charisma by pass did he or
    did he not start Robotic Golf if you have played the game to any sort
    of level which i doubt very much you would know how hard it is to hit
    it in the fairway and on the green all the time, its boring to watch eh
    you were not saying that when personality Watson won a few Majors
    or interesting Irwin had a few good yrs.
    I bet you have never broke 90 round a pitch and putt and with your
    attitude i am not suprised.
    Get some salt for that Chip on your shoulder.
    I bet you get depressed when you hit it in the fairway time after time,
    the US Open was a fun thing to watch eh.
    Dont you think they should have cheerleaders on the greens to liven it
    up Hot dog stands in the bunkers.
    Its Golf not Disney Land
    
    
    Joe
    
    
    
     
    
1568.13where am I?USPMLO::DESROCHERSWed Aug 12 1992 14:5310
    
    	I think Razor Ruddock will kick Lennox Lewis's butt all
    	around the ring and when he's done with him he'll...
    
    	...hunh?  this ain't Boxing notes ??
    
    	Sorry, gentlepersons
    	Tom
    
    
1568.14And you know what - I can hit'm 300 yards...8')COMET::PINARWed Aug 12 1992 15:0413
    
    
    o.k....for the record...I haven't broke 90 since I was probably 16.
    I usually break the 80's -- and when I play more than one time a week,
    I am usually in the low seventies....
     
    Now that I've unzipped my pants, does that make my opinion any more
    valued to you?  
    
    Didn't think so - 
    
    Please, let's get back to the topic.
    
1568.15Show respectWALTA::LENEHANpar-taking in par makingWed Aug 12 1992 15:1013
    
    HI Everyone,
    
    	Ok ... this notesfile has been around a few years and has 
    survived quite pleasantly without name calling or disrespect
    for fellow noters. If you have any personal problems, keep
    them personal... send the person mail and have at it .
    
    	Please allow the other noters their peace.
    
    	thanks
    
    	Mr Moderator
1568.16Ya Gotta Love It...MRKTNG::VARLEYWed Aug 12 1992 15:1930
    Wow ! Just when the notes are startin' to get benign... I've gotta
    admit that I love the Scottish and Irish courses (never been to
    Britain) - probably in general better than many in the U.S. BUT - think
    about how great courses evolve. In the U.K., designers of old had
    "linksland" to work with, so they designed some terrific links courses.
    Donald Ross grew up at Dornoch (a jewel of a links), then comes over
    here and designs great "parkland" courses, because that's what he had
    to work with. Consider his genius by contrasting Pinehurst with, say,
    an Oakland Hills or Oak Hill - two completely different kinds of
    courses, yet all are great.
    
    There's something about a great course that is unforgettable, be it
    links or parkland, and I suggest that we're missing something by
    advancing one type at the expense of the other. To our pal from across
    the pond, I'd say "play Merion or Olympic, then play Royal County Down
    or Turnberry. Think about how much you liked each (and I'm sure you'd
    like 'em all), then ask yourself why you'd want to disparage any of 'em
    because they didn't fit a stereotype ?"
    
    Back to the PGA - my heart is with Greg Norman, but I think Couples has
    a great shot. Faldo is on top of his game, too. FWIW, I think John Daly
    gets a lot of bum raps. Sure, he's a young guy who got rich quick, and
    who among us hasn't made youthful indiscretions. I like him because
    he's human - he gives a lot back to golf, and he gives of himself to
    the fans. Let's see, likes ladies, likes a beer or three, likes to have
    fun and play fast, likes to hit it as hard as he can, likes people...
    Gee, sounds a hell of a lot better than most athletes. Wonder if he
    ever heard of Georgie Best ?
    
    --Jack
1568.17Tour Pro PinarPEKING::ANTELLJWed Aug 12 1992 15:2813
    Sorry Mr Pinnar you need the Hogwash dept, i think you might head it up
    already.
    Any guy that has to say(Say being the operative word) how good he is 
    i am not sure about, i bet you caught whoppers when you went fishing.
    
    Digital must sure pay you well cos there are millions of Dollars
    waiting for you on the tour, there is one draw back you would have
    to play 4 times a week and people would count your scores, and
    that would blow your cover no.
    
    
    
    Joe
1568.18I've About Run Out O' Patience...MRKTNG::VARLEYWed Aug 12 1992 15:404
    O.K., O.K., .17, how does "Read Only" sound ? Buy some sticks with your
    Berlitz refund...
    
    --Jack
1568.19Enough is enough !LARVAE::MOSSMAN_MNever let the kettle boil dryWed Aug 12 1992 15:429
    Come on, Joe, give it a rest !!
    I don't know whats upset you so much but theres no need to take it out
    on innocent readers of this notes file - particularly someone 3000
    miles away.
    
    Why not just leave it alone for now.
    
    Michael.
    
1568.20Mike Calm DownPEKING::ANTELLJWed Aug 12 1992 16:2418
    Calm down Mike it is only a Joke , dont be so sensitive,
    There is a saying that goes 'Last time i saw a moouth that big it had
    a hook in it'
    
    I am only trying to get a few opinions on the game going back and forth
    their game is very much different to ours, its nice to hear peoples
    veiws no matter how obscure.
    I apoligise to any one out their who is offended i am only voicing a
    few opinions and trying to get some life injected into the notes.
    
    Mike hows your game going well i hope and send my best regards
    to Zella
    
    
    
    Joe
    
    
1568.21TOLKIN::LWAREWed Aug 12 1992 16:438
    
    >> I am only trying to get a few opinions on the game going back and forth
    >> their game is very much different to ours, its nice to hear peoples
    >> veiws no matter how obscure.
    
    
    Your being obnoxious.
    
1568.22and now for something completely differentOAXCEL::SOMERSWed Aug 12 1992 17:4824
    Do I dare give my opionion here?  Well, I survived the layoffs, so I
    guess I can survive this notesfile.
    
    Anyway, it seems that there is an important point not being discussed
    here- What makes a major tournament a Major?
    
    To me, one of the important things is trying to win under the pressure
    of being told, "This is a major tournament and if you win you will be
    considered among the finest golfers in the game today". In other words,  
    regardless of course length, setup and conditions, country, etc., the
    PGA is definitely one of the majors because it has been classified a
    major tournament, and therefore has much of the same pressures to win
    as the British and US Opens and the Masters have.
    
    It's like those that argue that the last US Open really wasn't so much
    won by Kite as it was lost by the others.  Well, the last time I
    looked, they all played the same course on the same days in the same
    conditions and with the same pressures.  Kite managed it all and WON
    the tournament and his first major.
    
    As long as the strength of the field of players remains relative to the
    other majors, I have no problem accepting the PGA as a major.
    
    Gary
1568.23Pickers vs DiggersDENVER::TILLISONWed Aug 12 1992 18:2311
    The "PGA Championship" a MAJOR is being played on a LOOOONG course this
    year.  Bellerive CC near St. Louis is just a long as Crooked Stick but
    not as forgiving.  I believe the narrow fairways will prevent Daly from
    repeating.
    
    My pick is Jay Haas.  He grew up close to there and has a knack for
    playing zoysiagrass fairways.  Jay doesn't take big divots and has
    done well at other courses with zoysia fairways. (TPC at Avenel and
    TPC at Southwind).  My second choice is Steve Pate. 
    
    (The ball sits up on zoysia and pickers do better than diggers)
1568.24MRKTNG::VARLEYWed Aug 12 1992 18:3921
    When we talk about "Majors," it's easy to get into "the sound of one
    hand clapping." The selection was initially arbitrary, and was probably
    done without regard to the strength of the field. Certainly neither the
    Masters or PGA have fields as strong as the TPC (although the larger
    amount of great foreign players in the former have changed this in
    recent years). Still, as a traditionalist, I'm more interested in the
    Masters and PGA than I am the TPC.
    
    In truth, perhaps Bobby Jones won the "real" Majors - U.S. and British
    Opens, U.S. and British Amateurs. Now THOSE are Major events -
    regardless of the strength of the field. The amateur events are
    downplayed by pro's today, but I think they are the very heart of golf.
    I think I'd rather watch the NCAA's than the PGA, but I like 'em all.
    Believe me, on this side of the pond, the British Open is considered a
    VERY big deal. It's too bad so many of our guys place $$ and corporate
    outings ahead of playing in "The Open." They rationalize the time, the
    cost and the advantage foreign guys have, but if you want to be
    considered "great," I think you have to play in the (British) Open.
    Just my 2 cents...
    
    --Jack
1568.25Stroke V MatchPEKING::ANTELLJThu Aug 13 1992 07:2013
    Golfers, does any one out there feel perhaps the last Major of the year
    should go back to its traditional Matchplay format, we have a Tourney
    over here every October called the world Matchplay it creates
    tremendous exitment cos its different, but in truth unless you are
    signed with IMG you have little chance of making the line up.
    
    Now would not the PGA be a more exiting event if it went to a Matchplay
    format as it was in the bygone days.
    
    What do ya fink
    
    
    Joe
1568.26See new topicLARVAE::MOSSMAN_MNever let the kettle boil dryThu Aug 13 1992 09:286
    I think this is an interesting thought Joe, but probably not exactly
    relevant to the topic heading so I am starting a new topic to discuss
    it.
    
    Michael.
    
1568.27team not individual majorDEVMKO::BLAISDELLRick, dtn 264-5414Thu Aug 13 1992 12:196
    
       Why not a Ryder Cup type format every year, with the top players
       from every country competing in best-ball, match play, alternate
       shot type rounds?   
    
    -rick
1568.28Yes, No, Maybe...MRKTNG::VARLEYThu Aug 13 1992 13:3826
     I would have left the PGA a match play format, because that's the way
    it started. Naturally, there are two big problems:
    
    1. It's much easier for an unknown to win it. That being said, Daly was
    an unknown before last year. Also, the winner might not be playing the
    best golf. Here's an example: Chip Beck beats Paul Azinger, Ray Floyd
    and Nick Faldo before losing to Jeff Sluman (I know, I know, some of
    these guys might not be in it this year, and there might not be that
    many matches - it's just an example). Beck is -14 for the matches.
    Rocco Mediate beats Wayne Levi, Don Pooley, Nick Price and Sam Sausage.
    Mediate is -3. In the final, Sluman beats Mediate and is a total of -5
    for all his matches. To me, Beck played better and against tougher
    guys, but he's outta here. That doesn't happen in medal play.
    
    2. How many spectators (at the course and on TV) and advertisers are
    gonna be interested in a 2 man final (which could go only 10-11 holes,
    leaving a LOT of "dead air time" for the TV network) - especially
    involving Sluman and Mediate ? I like both guys, but we're not talking
    exactly marquee names here.
    
     On second thought, I changed my mind - medal play is better. Mr.
    Moderator, please move this to a different note, if it doesn't fit
    here...
    
    --Jack
    
1568.29Even the notes topic lost interest.WOTVAX::MORRISONFri Aug 14 1992 12:0425
It's interesting.  There is actually very little comment about 
the USPGA tournament in this topic.  That in itself speaks 
volumes about the event.  Its classed as a major, hence it is a 
major.

I would be interested to know the difference between the USGA and 
the USPGA, how the players qualify, a bit about the format, what 
this zoysia grass is, etc ...

I'm afraid I don't know much about the event, and I'm stuck in a 
hotel and haven't heard much about what's happening.  For my 
money, Nick Faldo is actually in top form at the moment.  At 
Muirfield he seemed to be so much happier with himself.  Perhaps 
there's a lesson there, and we should all get another interest 
apart from golf.

However, from what little I do know, it appears that this event 
seems to be good for relative un-knowns e.g John Daly.  Why is 
this ?

FWIW I would say someone like Fred Funk, or another good 
jouney-man pro must stand a chance.

Randall
1568.30impressions from yesterday's roundOAXCEL::SOMERSFri Aug 14 1992 13:1230
    Taped yesterday's coverage of the first round.  Faldo, Kite, and Couples
    were teamed up as a threesome.  It was interesting to watch them play
    with very different styles.
    
    Faldo (-3) was very steady and accurate, very rarely in the rough off
    the fairways, and from what I remember didn't play from the sand at
    all.  He looked and played confident. 
    
    Kite (even or +1) was also playing well until the last few holes, when
    he double bogeyed the par 5 (hit the water going for the green on his
    second shot) and bogeyed the last hole.  Anyway, his game looked well
    suited for the course.
    
    Couples (-2) had probably the most up and down round of the day.  He
    started off bogeying the first hole, birdied the second, and then
    triple bogeyed the third (par three, his is tee shot into the water,
    and three putted).  At that point, he got it together and birdied 5, 8
    and 9 to get to Even, and then scrambled on the back nine, making some
    very long putts for par and birdies on a par 3 and the par 5 (he was on
    in two).  He did not look very comfortable with his iron game.  In
    fact, on the par three that he birdied, he actually was upset with his
    tee shot (that ended up about 3 feet from the hole) because he was
    aiming for the middle of the green.
    
    The greens they are playing are absolutely huge, and putts of 70-90
    feet were common.
    
    From what I saw, Faldo looks like the man to beat.
    
    Gary
1568.32NEWPRT::JOHNSON_DOFri Aug 14 1992 18:4325
    As for DAly...he is still a beath of fresh air although not as fresh as
    last year.  It is still fun to watch him hit and people can really feel
    for him when he fails...which has been often.  He still does not get
    paid for winning.  Maybe when he is no longer a side show, he will be
    able to win again.  He has been close a few times this year.
    
    As for a deserving champion, sometimes it is a survivor, other times a
    gorilla and sometimes the favorite.  All still deserving, especially if
    you have played golf four days in a row and see how wide the variion
    can be in your game from day to day.
    
    As for the course, I think they should be forced to play tough courses. 
    Makes it more relative to common folk.  The longer the better.  They
    should have one at the International from the Tiger tees (8300 yards). 
    Holes like number 10 should be regular (480 yd par 4) with a green
    designed to accept short irons.
    
    As for tricking up a course, what ever they want is OK.  Make them
    think and make the gamblers be rewarded for success.  The gambler that
    succeeds should always end up ahead of the plodder.  The world and golf
    is based on risk/reward (quite the opposite of Digital culture and
    metrics).  That why I like the tourney in Colorado and why I like
    Norman and Seve and not the "clones".
    
    SCD
1568.33USPMLO::DESROCHERSMon Aug 17 1992 13:1312
    
    	I thought Gary McCord was going to get yanked yesterday.
    	Didn't hear it exactly but Greg Norman said something about
    	his shots coming down from Pluto.  McCord said "that's somewhere
    	near Uranus, isn't it?".
    
    	I loved it but if it was the Masters, he'd have been off the
    	show and never allowed back!!
    
    	What a riot!
    	Tom
    
1568.34McCord, Daly, Si !!!MRKTNG::VARLEYMon Aug 17 1992 13:4817
    I might be a "traditional" guy when it comes to reading old golf books
    and my taste in golf courses, but I love Gary McCord. I met him once at
    Farmington C.C. in Ct.(briefly - he was there with Frank Chirkinian and
    Ken Venturi, who was taping a TV "Pro Pointer"), and he was super.
    Watched him hit it off #1 - undistinguished - and enjoyed him
    thoroughly.
    
     As SCD says, although all those guys can PLAY, it's fun to watch the
    more charismatic and risk-taking guys come through. I may be naive, but
    I think Daly is terrific ! Who else would go play in a charity
    tournament to raise money for a worthy cause, then write the charity a
    cheque ? In effect, paying them for him to play ? He does things that
    other guys oughtta do, but don't want to do - so there's a lot of
    resentment toward him. Just my opinion, but we could use a few more
    John Daly's...
    
    --Jack
1568.35Congrats Nick PricePEKING::ANTELLJMon Aug 17 1992 13:5115
    Well done Nick Price a well deserved win , he has been sniffing around
    Majors for a few yrs now so its nice he gets one.
    
    So its been Fred Couples,Tom Kite of which both the experts said they
    would never win majors ,Nick Faldo and finally Nick Price both are
    pupils of David Leadbetter.
    
    On that note has anybody out there tried to learn from the Leadbetter
    school, Videos books etc, it seems e good method is it easy to learn
    tell me the secret then perehaps i can sneak a win in a club
    competition.
    
    
    
    Joe
1568.36PGA TRIVIA - OR NOT?MR4DEC::DIAZOctavio, SME InternationalMon Aug 17 1992 17:108
Just some trivia the Boston Globe has today.

John Daly  was  able to play the PGA last year because Nick Price cancell
last minute due  to  wife  having  a  baby.   John then even took Price's
Caddy, which is the same one Price had this weekend (Forgot his name).  I
guess that Caddy is going to be sought after!

Tavo
1568.37SALEM::DIFRUSCIAMon Aug 17 1992 17:133
    The caddy is nicked named Sqeeky.
    
    
1568.38Belated congratulationsFLYWAY::BELLWed Aug 19 1992 07:2124
    I would like to add my congratulations to Nick Price for his excellent
    win. I just saw the tape of the final day last night, and was very
    impressed with his second last shot. I understand he used a sand wedge
    to just get the ball started out the rough and trickle it down to the
    hole. That shot took a lot of nerve in my opinion, the variations on
    what could have resulted from the shot, don't bear thinking about. He
    played aggressively over the last two holes, and didn't try to play
    safe, which I am sure we as viwers all enjoyed.
    Nick Faldo was thereabouts as usual. As a Brit of course I'm happy he
    did well, but I do wish he could be a bit more gracious on the course.
        Two players who have impressed me enormously in the majors (other
    than the winners of course) have been Gil Morgan and John Cook. Both
    were very close to winning, both played loose shots at the wrong time,
    but both players behaved incredibly well after seeing their chances
    fade. No histrionics, no scowls, just a rueful shake of the head and a
    sad smile. Perfect gentlemen both and a great credit to the American
    tour. 
        I must say I have great regard for John Cook as a player. Having
    gone so close on two occasions this year I hope to see him win a major
    soon. I think he deserves it, and I sense that he might become the next
    American superstar in the Tom Watson mould.
    
    
    Norman  
1568.39high-percentage type shotDEVMKO::BLAISDELLRick, dtn 264-5414Wed Aug 19 1992 12:326
    
      Norman,  the bladed sand wedge shot that Price used is considered
      a fairly routine and safe shot by the pros.  No chance for hitting
      the dreaded 'chili'.
    
    -rick
1568.40SARAH::DEFELICEWed Aug 19 1992 13:284
    RE .38
    
    My sentiments exactly.  Both Price and Cook were quite the pair to
    watch on Sunday.
1568.41pga most difficult to winAKOCOA::BREENBill Breen Ako2-3 244-7984Wed Aug 19 1992 18:2214
    Here I am back to my same old theme but here goes.  There is one
    viewpoint that should make the pga the most difficult tourny to
    win.  That is that is attracts the most American tour level players,
    basically the top 150 or so plus (I believe) fewer restrictions on
    foreigners than u.s. open.
    
    TPC probalby from reading Jack's note may then if regarded as a MAJOR
    be the number 1 difficult major.
    
    This year when it got down to the last 9 holes it was Price with all
    his experience in majors especially british open that helped him
    prevail
    
    bb
1568.42Mind gamePEKING::ANTELLJThu Aug 20 1992 10:1019
    Pressure is in the players heads there are some who over the yrs have
    been nerveless or appear to be, Jack Nicklaus is a prime example so the 
    pressure is a mental thing it gets to some but others learn to cope
    like Nick Price he has been close and fades he learnt how to win, 
    
    think how easy it is to hit a shot in a practice rd when your not
    trying get in a club comp and somedays you wonder whose arms you are
    using.
    
    I was once told the biggest distance in golf is in between the ears
    i still believe it is.
    
    Watch all the pros on the practice range at the next opportunity
    all of them hit perfect shots time after time , but only a few
    win on a regular basis why?
    
    
    Joe 
    i still believe it 
1568.43the magic wandDEVMKO::BLAISDELLRick, dtn 264-5414Thu Aug 20 1992 10:498
    
>    Watch all the pros on the practice range at the next opportunity
>   all of them hit perfect shots time after time , but only a few
>   win on a regular basis why?
    
      That's easy. Putting. The best putters win the tournaments.
    
    -rick
1568.44the magic brain i think?PEKING::ANTELLJThu Aug 20 1992 13:1223
    I dont agree why do some players hit rank poor shots when the pressure is
    on take ever Major there will be players who get into contention and
    realise they might win lose their head , nerve ,concentration and blow
    it even the best have done it some golfers learn from it and are
    stronger others never are , how many times did Tom Kite have a great
    chance of wining a Major only to blow it this yr he heldhis nerve.
    Seve in the Masters one yr hit an awfull 4 iron into Raes creek and
    admitted 2 yrs after how that one shot affected him mentally he
    wondered if he would ever win a major again.
    Its a mind game not a putting competition however when 2 graet golfers
    who hold their nerve and emotions then it can turn into a putting
    competition.
    
    Mike Radar Reid in the US Open one yr only had to stand up to win ,
    Faldo was lucky to get the chance to win the British Open only
    cos John CooK let him back in,
    Bernhard Langer has won the Masters and various worldwide top Tourneys
    yet is not a good putter, Fred Couples is known as a poor putter
    yet both of these when on form knock it so close when they are buzzing
    the worst they can do is make par.
    
    
    Joe 
1568.45still maintain it is putting that winsDEVMKO::BLAISDELLRick, dtn 264-5414Thu Aug 20 1992 14:1929
    
>    Mike Radar Reid in the US Open one yr only had to stand up to win ,
    
       Why? Because he missed short putts on the closing holes while Payne
       Stewart was making everything in sight.
    
>    Faldo was lucky to get the chance to win the British Open only
>    cos John CooK let him back in,
    
       Why? Because Cook three putted the easy par 5 on the back and missed
       a couple of other putts, while Faldo was sinking the clutch putts on
       the last four holes.
    
>    Bernhard Langer has won the Masters and various worldwide top Tourneys
>    yet is not a good putter, 
    
       This is a common misconception. Actually, Langer is a superb putter
       as evidenced by his top ranking (putting and last time I checked) on 
       the European tour.
    
    > Fred Couples is known as a poor putter 
    
       I would say he is more inconsistent than he is a poor putter.  The
       putter was hot early this year (perfect example was the Masters
       where he was making everything), and now he is not and that is why
       he has disappeared from the leaderboards.
    
   -rick
    
1568.46Not ConvincedPEKING::ANTELLJThu Aug 20 1992 15:0126
    Sorry Rick not convinced
    Putting statistics mean nowt cos if someone hits every green he will
    take more putts than someone who misses 9 greens and gets up and down
    6 times.
    Fred won the Masters on the short 12th hole his ball should have gone
    in the water as every other ball has in that position over the yrs
    his stuck in fringe and away he went.
    John Cook missed the green miles right on 18th and had no chance of
    chipping and putting.
    Ray Floyd in the Masters dumped his second shot in the lake
    Langer in the open last yr took 5 putts from 8 feet he has always
    fought the yips how good is that.
    True champions have great minds ability to shut out things pressure
    no matter what feild they perform in ,Borg,Ali,Nicklaus, Watson at his
    peak Seve ,Sugar Ray Leonard he conned Hagler remeber that a mind game
    not a boxing match he touched him and ran all the fight he knew it
    would get to Hagler so Hagler could not perform he psyched him out
    never out boxed him, i know i have drifted from the point but i am
    trying to get my point accross.
    
    Top golf is a mind game as Tennis is, have you ever read the inner game
    of golf , i have a copy if you are interested i will let you borrow
    it.
    
    
    regards   Joe
1568.47all the shots are importantWEPUBS::DCHAVEZDale - CXN2 Colorado SpringsFri Aug 21 1992 14:3620
    Re: John Cook

    I too hope he wins a major soon.  He's showed extreme class under very
    trying conditions in the last few months.

    Re: putting wins tournaments

    I also disagree with one of the previous noters.  My personal opinion
    is the ability to scramble is just as important as putting, driving, or
    iron shots.  Most major courses are setup/designed to punish the errant
    drive and iron shot, and even the best tour players don't hit 100% of
    greens and fairways. So, yes putting is important (especially if you're
    trying to save par/bogey from five feet), but the good/bad chip/iron
    shot put you in that position.

    Nicklaus is a prime example of someone who is/was hailed as a great
    putter in his time, and he was.  But, Nicklaus also missed few fairways
    and greens also (which, by his own admission made his short game weak).

    Dale
1568.48mind gameTEEUP::MOOKWhere are you between two thoughts?Mon Aug 24 1992 17:354
All of you are right!  The mind game shows itself the best (or the worst) on 
and around the green.

bob