Conference 7.286::golf

    Another question on this same topic. I saw an article on "Curing Slices"
    by Lee Trevino in the most recent Golf Digest where Lee recommends a
    "figure eight" swing, with the takeaway starting well to the OUTSIDE which
    Lee claims will bring the downswing from the inside-out. Do any of you
    better golfers out there feel this advice is sound?? I'm still trying
    to break 100 consistently and I feel that one of my biggest problems is
    trying to listen to TOO much advice. Would you recommend disregarding
    the "figure eight" advice in spite of the noteworthy author??
    
    Thanks,
    
    Fred

    I would recommend you stand on the practice tee and try it. Heck you
    can try John Daly's swing while your at it. That's how you learn. 
    No harm done. 

    
       If fundamentals are the key, then I would stress simplicity for a 
     sound takeaway.  I used to think about the takeaway a lot as it really
     is like turning the ignition key and starting the whole swing. Do it
     wrong and the whole swing suffers.
    
       For me the key for a simple solid takeaway, is to start with the
    shoulder and let the turn move the club back. Don't think about the
    hands or conciously try to take it back inside. A proper shoulder turn
    takes care of that naturally.  The wrists will take care of themselves
    as well.  Doesn't hurt to turn that shoulder slowly either. 
    
    -rick

    Many years ago Ben Hogan wrote a series for Sports Illustrated. It was
    called "Power Golf", I think. Subsequentally the articles were
    consolidated into book form and published.
    
    The best thing(at least for me) about the advice is its simplicity,
    both in content and subjects. It only concentrates on the swing, and
    then only a few pointers. The illustrations are great, as they were in
    the early SIs.
    
    He emphasizes the backswing should remain in the same plane as the
    forward swing. He says to imagine a sheet of plexiglass with a hole for
    your head resting on your shoulders and the ball. The forward and
    backswing should be the same as the plexiglass.
    
    You can easily find a copy of either the articles or the book from a
    library. Its all too easy to make something very complex that doesn't
    need to be.
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    Bob

>   ? When should the wrist begin to break.

>   ? Does it really matter that much if the wrist cock is started right away
>     on the backswing.

I've always been taught not to worry about actively cocking & uncocking the
wrists.  At impact they will release naturally. (Otherwise they really will
break!)  

>     What are some things to key on that help a smooth fundmental takeaway.

Start to turn with your shoulders & hips, keep it low on the take away, when
from waith high to the top it's basically all your big muscles trunk, sholders,
hips, etc.  Some place between waist high & the top, your wrists will cock.
On the way down avoid actively uncocking your wrists on the way down.  
    
>     Do fundmentals really mean all that much I've seen some pretty
>     unfundmantal swings but they seem to get the club square at impact and
>     isn't that all that really counts.

Some people are better atheletes than others.  You can swing away way you
want if you can put everything back in place before impact.  Most of us just
aren't that good!

My take on it is.  The ratio of normal (read sound fundamental) swings to
"different" swings is higher on the PGA.  At your local muni there is a higher
percentage of "different" swings than normal.  Therefore logically you are
MORE likely to be successful with a sound fundamental swing.

    According to David Leadbetter:
    
    The wrists should be fully cocked by the time your left arm is parallel
    to the ground.
    
    By the way, if anybody is looking for an instruction book that REALLY
    teaches you how to swing the club, get his "The Golf Swing" book.  
    
    Stan

    My dime, your time.
    
    The club square at impact is the key.  All the other stuff is someones
    interpretation of best to accomplish the result.  The low take away is
    a swing reminder to help do a few things.
    
       a. Avoid/minimizes picking the club up as opposed to sweeping it. 
    This causes not only a severe plane change but also makes it hard for
    the club head to be timed with the hands, since the hands will have to
    generate the down swing.
    
       b. Forces a shoulder turn as the arms can get very far back or up
    before the torso has to help out.
    
       c. Minimizes "pogo-ing" or head bobbing since it is hard to raise up
    and keep the back swing low...thereby keeping the head still and
    allowing the eyes to help compute the ball location only once.
    
       d. Limit the amount of forearm twist or pronation on backswing that
    adds several levels of complication to ones ability to get the club
    head square at impact.  This twisting also makes it very easy to break
    the wrists down early, often times producing a casting effect...or
    throwing of the clubhead at the top of the swing to get it started down
    again (usually results in some real ugly shanks).
    
       e. Usually results in a more upright swing, which is by most experts
    opinions, more controllable and predictable, but less aesthetic.
    
    The Trevino idea is his way of getting the club on the inside track. 
    Others say take it away inside.  The key is to try all of these and
    understand how it affects your shots.  There may be a time when you
    need to call on one of these (or other) swing keys to effect a
    different shot or make a mid round corrrection.  
    
    For those of you that have played baseball.. its a lot like the old adage
    "don't hitch", but every great hitter "hitches" because this is the 
    preliminary or preparatory movement that keys the hands and the rest of 
    the body.  The secret is to match the "hitch" to your hitting style , 
    body/strength, and desired performance(power vs. consistancy).  
    
    Same is true in golf with take aways, wrist cock, raising the left heel or 
    not, the forward press of Nicklaus.
    
    SCD
                                        

    re:.4
    
    The plane of the downswing is NOT the same as the backswing. In Hogan's
    book he illustrates this clearly. When the downswing is initiated by
    the turning of the hips forward this causes the hands to drop down a
    bit leading to a flatter plane for the downswing.
    
    This is what Hogan says. I think Leadbetter would agree since his book
    is basically a rewrite of Hogan's teaching.
    
    My own thoughts are that if you have the correct grip and
    stance/posture then you shouldn't worry at all about the
    takeaway/backswing. The only thing to think about is a full shoulder
    turn against a solid right leg. This should make you feel tight in
    your shoulder and back muscles.
    
    my tuppence, based on LOTS of experiments over the years.
    
    martin

    The key here is: take it away slow and relaxed. Let the wrist cock take
     care of
    itself, with some, it is early, some it is late, as long as it happens
    before you start the down swing.  The ball doesn't care one way or the
    other. As long as you can bring the the clubface back to being square to
    the target line at impact, you are succesful. I hope that this helps
    you with what you are trying to accomplish. Keep it simple!
    Remember one more thing: Keep the head still! The Cardinal Rule.

    
    I agree with .3 & .8
    
    I'm convinced that by far the simplest and most repeatable takeaway is 
    a turn of the left shoulder to the right (for RH players), with 
    concentration not on the shoulder joint itself but instead on the entire 
    collar-bone/chest area. I have found it easy to 'implement' as the
    playing thoughts are isolated to one (and only one) swing movement.
    
    In my opinion, it helps aid balance and encourages a 'fuller' shoulder
    turn which everybody agrees is a must.
    
    Just my tuppence worth.....
    
    Regds,
    Pat.
    
    
    
     
     

    Keep head still...
    
    The latest slo-mo's have debunked this theory as well.  In fact there
    is a movement backward and down but as long as it stays behind the ball
    you are OK.  As for the shouldere turn, I think that if it comes as the
    result of having moved your hands(and arms - one unit) as far as they
    can comfortably go in the take away, the shoulder turn will complete
    the job.  The problem with early shoulder turn is that when you lead
    with the shoulders on the down swing, you get either a dead pull or a
    "pull away" slice.  Many of us who have played baseball/softball know
    the feeling of pulling thru with the shoulders.  You lose power, your
    head moves (because it is most directly attached to the shoulders) and
    you lose sight of the ball (before and after you hit it).
    
    SCD
    

re: .11
    
>    Keep head still...
>    
>    The latest slo-mo's have debunked this theory as well.  In fact there
>    is a movement backward and down but as long as it stays behind the ball
>    you are OK.
    
I for one disagree with your statement...all the latest slo-mo's that
I have seen reguarding head movement(mostly Curtis Strange..) have agreed with
your second statement but none of them have contradicted the most fundamental
rule of golf: Keep the head still!

	The head is going to move some anyway as a result of the swing,
but the closer you come to minimizing this movement the better you'll
strike the ball.

Many play the game moving the head and many play it extremely well moving
the head but.....if they were to play keeping the head still as Nicklaus
was taught from his very beginings in golf, (and maintains it is the one
most fundamental rule to live by) how good might they have been???? Nicklaus
devotes a full chapter to it in his book, and his teachers book (Jack Grout)
stresses this as fundamental to the game also...Jones and Hogan also refer to
it and no-one has played as good as those three in the history of the game...!!

	I'll take Nicklaus consistancy anytime....

>    Keep head still...
    
>    The latest slo-mo's have debunked this theory as well.  In fact there
>    is a movement backward and down but as long as it stays behind the ball
>    you are OK.  As for the shouldere turn, I think that if it comes as the
    
        Head movement causes the eyes to find the ball and refocus during
      the swing. This increases the chances for errors and mishits.
      Position the head (chin up a little), so as to minimize that movement.
      Keeping the head still was a fundamental I strayed from a few years
      ago and it cost me big time.  
    
    
>    the job.  The problem with early shoulder turn is that when you lead
>    with the shoulders on the down swing, you get either a dead pull or a
>    "pull away" slice.  Many of us who have played baseball/softball know
    
      The discussion was about the shoulder turn leading the backswing and
      not the downswing.  I agree that leading with the shoulder on the 
      downswing results in an outside-in action leading to the shots you
      describe.  The downswing should be led by the legs with the hands 
      dropping down and into the hitting zone.
    
     other thoughts to add to the discussion...
    
      The swing for the 1-2 time a week golfers should be structured as 
      simple as possible, because if something goes wrong, it is harder
      to correct if you have lots of motion, movement of head/hands,
      hitches, ticks and quirks.  Realizing I didn't have the luxury of
      lots of practice time to correct swing flaws anymore, so I took a lot of 
      motion out of my swing with great results. Hell, I don't even include
      a waggle anymore. If my swing goes south, it usually takes a few
      holes to get it back on track.  
    
        You gotta keep it simple!
    
    -rick
       

    If Nicklaus were the model then we would all be working hard to get our
    right elbow to fly.  I guess I take exception to the word "still" which
    to me means no movement, where as I think "quiet" is a better
    description, no radical movement or sudden movement.  What this has to
    do with a take away is that, for many, turning the shoulders causes the
    head to turn, your focus shifts from both eyes to one eye and it is
    hard to not turn the shoulders and head when coming back to the ball.
    
    Maybe to, many golfers try too hard to get a full or big shoulder turn
    and lose track of the club head and ball both.  The take away, back
    swing  and shoulder turn need not be full to generate club head speed
    and power/distance.  More of us should cut our backswings to about
    three quarters and accelerate thru the ball.  Sure, it looks better to
    see a full smooth swing, but it may be easier to keep the head (and
    Eyes)"quiet" by reducing the back swing and concentrating on
    acclerating thru the ball.  
    
    SCD 

SCD

To digress from the subject matter, I agree somewhat that keeping the head in
position is probably the more correct way to term it. The head does move 
during the course of the swing. But, the head pretty much has to return to 
it's original position in order to return the club face back to its place at 
address. I think that this is what Strange does. The movement should be 
minimal otherwise the Physics (cause and effect) will be affected.
We could beat this one to death, I suppose. The thing to remember here is,
we are all individuals, with individual swings, different bodies. What works 
for one, may or may not work for another. If holding my breath while sticking 
my tongue out would get me consistency, I would do it. (By the way it doesn't 
work for me.)
On another point, regarding the shoulder turn, whether it is full or not, it 
should be completed just after (the transition) starting the down swing. Many 
of us amateurs (me included!!!) do not complete the back swing.

You have got me thinking about a number of things that I plan to work on 
myself this year. Thanks. And thanks for all your contributions to this notes
file. I have enjoyed them immensely along with Varley's, Cooper's, Fagley's,
Blaisdell's, Hogan's, Walta's, Voutsela's and a slew of others that are out 
there.

Back to the original topic. I find that when the hands and forearms are 
relaxed, but firm, it is easier to start the take away. 
Nicklaus advocates holding the clubhead above the ground on all shots to 
prevent the intrusion of tension into the the swing. It also make the 
beginning of the take away easier to accomplish with out the ground 
interfering. 
One of the keys here, for me at least, is to get relaxed prior to the 
take away. If that is accomplished, I start back slow and keep the pace of the 
swing slow, giving all the various parts of the swing the time to perform what 
they are supposed to do and voila!!! The ball seems to end up somewhere in the
vicinity of where I had planned. Success, in my terms.

Again, hope this helps.

Rich

    Rich
    
    You get my drift.  By the way, I may try the tongue, my golf buddies
    know me to be a brick shy of full load anyway.  SOme things I have
    tried, and they worked, were to bend at the waist like Fuzzy Z. to put
    my shiulders in a different attitude, making it difficult to pull the
    front shoulder out.  This looked weird, but it served its purpose for
    about a year.  It put my hands in a real low position, but that was
    compensated for by a very upright backswing with almost a reverse wrist
    cock. Some what like Paul Azinger.  This was done similar to the wrist action of many pitchers (like
    Rick Sutcliffe).  It caused the message to somehow get to my lazy right
    hand that it had to help get the club thru.
    
    I guess the point is that an understanding of what you want to do
    coupled with the cause and effect of several alternatives can sure make
    us all golf doctors of a sort.  I appreciate the variations of swings
    and approaches and try to understand why they do them.  Probably the
    three that have affected me the most lately are Freddy Couples and
    Azingers grip, Azingers take away and John Daly's more than full turn. 
    None of these would be taught at the range by the local pro and
    definitely not in combination, but what the heck.  Makes my 5 hours a
    lot more fun.
    
    SCD 

         What has been working well for me this last year on the
    takeaway is to focus on a low takeaway with the feeling that
    my upper body is turning away from the ball, then I just drop
    the club back on the ball and watch it go !! I also have to fight
    my right shoulder from leading the downswing and causing the
    dreaded banana ball !! Something must be right as I have gone
    from a 22.5 index last January to a 15.6 this year. Now if I
    only had a short game 8^( !!!
    
    Mad Hacker

    MH 
    
    You might want to try this to eliminate the right shoulder starting
    the downswing. Place a head cover in your left arm pit and hit a bucket
    of balls, do not let the head cover drop until after you have made
    contact with the golf ball. The object of this drill is to get you to
    start your take away on the target line and then move inside and up. It
    also brings the clubhead into the ball from inside which should
    deliver a slight draw if the rest of the swing basics are correct.
    If this works continue to practice until it becomes habit.
    
    Let me know if this helps any, Rich.

    I agree with keeping the swing as simple as possible (more easily
    reproduced).  I think of the swing (and this applies to any part of it)
    as basically a turn with proper weight shift (balance).  And that it is
    started and controlled from the ground up.  The second you start
    thinking about your hands, arms, or shoulders initiating the swing, you
    are going to get out of synch.  So I like to feel the backswing start
    with a gentle shift of weight to the inside of the back foot, with the
    front knee coming toward the ball, which gets the hips turning, which
    gets the shoulders turning ... ect.  As long you think TURN, the club
    doesn't go inside nor does it go outside, it just stays on its circular
    path.  The downswing is also initiated from the ground up (but thats
    for a different topic).  The backswing part is the opposite from what
    Hogan says - to start the backswing with the hands and arms, which pull
    the shoulders, which pull the hips, and so on.  At any rate, he felt
    this chain reaction of movements was important and so do I.  I just see
    them starting at a different place.

    Maybe this explains why he's won 4 or 5 U.S. opens and I'd be happy to
    win the Miller Lite Open (which ought to be closed).
    
    Bob (comments Rick?)

    Well Bob, you asked.  8^)

    I maintain that the turn from the shoulder is a simpler swing key than
  initiating the turn with your legs.  You have two things you key on, the
  weight shifting against the rear leg plus the "front knee coming toward
  the ball".  All I think about is rotating the point of the left shoulder 
  (I'm a right handed golfer) from a square position at address to a
  position under my chin in alignment with ball.  One thing to think about.
  And as anyone who has seen me on the dance floor can attest, getting my
  leg action in sync would be a hopeless task which is why I opt for the
  upper body.  But I can also attest, Mr. Mook has a great swing and gets 
  great results.

    The shoulder rotation as described above ensures that your back is
  facing the target, you have achieved a long wide swing arc, you are
  using your big muscles of the shoulders to generate power, and that you
  are in the proper position at the top of the swing.

    As someone stated earlier, there are many ways of achieving the same
  results and no two swings are identical.

    Once again Rich O'Connor has come in with a great practice tip with the
  head cover under the left arm pit.  Those kind of drills  will especially
  help beginners learn proper muscle memory and best of all, they are fun
  things to do to break up the tedium of going to the practice range. And as
  Rich has stated many times in the past,  PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE !!


-rick
    

    Rich and Rick
    
    One question,  Which way do I have the Gorilla face looking when I put
    the head cover under my left arm pit?  Also, do you advise I try this
    with my 3 wood since the cover is a Mickey Mouse head??
    
    For those of you who are looking for simulators...just watch the
    tourney at La Costa this weekend on TV and see what WE folks in SoCal
    HAVE to contend with.  The sun in your eyes, can't decide whether to
    wear a short sleeve shirt and vest or a light jacket, and then you have
    to decide whether to drive home with the top down or not.  Let me tell
    you, these only add confusion to the golf swing and the game in
    general. 
    
    SCD

    SCD
    
    Depends on whether or not the Gorilla bites!
    
    At this point in the season I wouldn't mind having to make some of
    those decisions that you suffer with.
    
    Bob Mook
    
    I like the gentle shift of the weight to the back foot as a key. Do I
    remember that another Bob (Jones) advocated that also?
    Boy, another item to add to the growing list of "improvements".

    I have been away from this note and am glad to see all the action.  I
    haven't got to downswing yet and I expect to see around 30 replies
    there also.
    Bob I was wondering how you do it and have watched your swing and have
    wanted to get the tempo you realize.  The tips that I want to remember
    from this note and another will be
    
    1.  Slowwwwwwwwwwwwww  Backswing
    
    2.  Get the big muscles involved.
    
    3.  Find out just how "loud" that head actually is (VCR?)
    
    4.  Work on the feet.  This probably can be practiced anywhere
    
    5.  Don't just pick the club up
    
    Rick I will be watching your replies on iron play and approach shots 
    
    Note I mention Rick and Bob because I know them - I saw some excellent
    swings warming up at Cup I just don't know the names attached.

    Some great tips to KEY on when starting the backswing. Thanks.
    
    Now the 2nd part of the swing. What are the fundamental things we
    should do when we are at the top and ready to start the downswing
    and are there some things to key on.
       Is it as simple as making the weight shift with the lower body 
    (the hip and legs) and thats it,or is there more to the downswing.
    Seems like there isn't alot you can do with the downswing kind of like
    just let it happen.
       
       If your O.K. with your backswing (grip included) from the start to
    the top, isn't it just a matter of transferring the weight from back
    to front and letting it go.
    
    Of all the fundamentals of the swing it seems the downswing is not
    emphasized to much.  
    
    

The downswing should start just prior to the finish of the of the backswing 
with a shifting of the weight to the target. It is important that the knees 
remain flexed and that the weight be on the inside of the back foot prior to 
the weight shift to the target. If this is done, the weight shift to the 
target is easier to accomplish due to the fact that the proper coiling of the 
upper body has occurred and all the muscles are taut.
The head should remain steady at all times, unless you are Strange. The hands 
and arms should have the feeling that they are trying to catch up to the hips 
but never do. It is very important that this action be very smooth in order 
that your balance is maintained. If you lose your balance, you will most 
likely hit a poor shot.
Rich

    If you want a drill to help with the takeaway here goes. 
    
    Take your stance.
    Place a club on the ground touching your left heel and your right toe.
    When you start the club back, it should be parallel with the club on
    the ground. 
    
    Also, when the hands are waist high, the club should be level with the
    ground and the hands should be positioned over the outside of the right
    foot. 
    
    If you get it in these two positions, your on your way to the proper
    takeaway.
    
    As far as the downswing goes, .27 is on target. 
    
    This is all taken from the Leadbetter book "The Golf Swing" Excellent
    reading and instruction.

Presumably the advice:

    >Place a club on the ground touching your left heel and your right toe.
    >When you start the club back, it should be parallel with the club on
    >the ground. 

is for left-handers. If I as a rightie try to do this, I'll end up with the
grandmother of all slices :-)

Peter

    re: .29
    
    exactly my thoughts when I read that but figured I must be missing 
    something or reading it wrong....I think they meant to say
    "touching your left toe and your right toe.." if they didn't it's
    a good way to make sure you slice it every time...!!! {;^)

    I'll attempt to clarify. The tip was for right handers and the
    instructions were correct. The club on the ground should be pointing at
    about 1:30 to 2:00 depending upon the width of your stance and the
    angle of your feet.  Toe to toe or heel to heel would be 3:00. Left toe
    to right heel would be 10:00ish.
    
    You'll have to try it to understand. The takeaway is slightly inside
    the target line. When you take the club back a little inside the toe of
    the club in relation to the hands or grip should point at 1:30 to 2:00.
    If I think of it I'll bring the book in and explain it the way
    Leadbetter does. 
    
    I wish I could illustrate it for you. A picture is worth a thousand words. 
    DECcrayon for Notes is in Beta test.
    
    My description is staring to sound more and more like a new Twister
    position.
    
    Ken

    re: .31
    
    takeway is slightly inside???
    
    "first 18 inches of takeway should be straight back" like placing
    the clubhead into a catchers mitt....
    
    

I am beginning to understand! I thought at first that the club on the ground
indicated the desired line of takeaway. After reading your clarification it 
seems to make more sense. 

I still have one query about the advice. It is evidently true that the club
travelling from the 12 o'clock position to the 9 o'clock position must go
through the 1:30 or 2 o'clock position at some stage. What does your author
say about when this should happen?

BTW I agree with you about the "takeaway being slightly on the inside" - the
day that I realised and acted on that was the day that I stopped being a 
slicer. -- Now does anyone have any words of wisdom for a hooker? :-)


Peter

    FOLKS...
    
    Just read the Lee Trevino article on the swing and teaching techniques. 
    I tried the Figure 8 approach today and what a difference.  This aloud
    me to get my arms free and swing through the ball.  Several drives
    straight as I have ever hit them...over 280 each one.  While I have hit
    them like that before, it was always a mystery as to why.  Today I
    could repeat the swing.  Lee's approach sounds like blastphemy(sic) to
    all other teaching styles, but he does a good job of explaining why. 
    He debunks most take away theories, most stance theories and several
    grip theories.  
    
    Stay tuned and I will let you know how it works...but day 1 was
    exciting.
    
    SCD 

    
       Whatever brings you success SCD. Good luck with it!  However, if
     imitation is a testament to how successful a swing is, how many Lee
     Trevino type swings do you see out on tour? 
    
    -rick

    Last season my teaching pro also got me to try the figure 8
    approach.  For anyone who has a tendency to come over the top
    and/or cut the ball too much, I'd recommend it.  However, it
    took a tremendous amount of practice time to integrate this change
    into my swing.  It was worth it, though - when the swing is going
    well, solid and consistent hits increase, and the likelihood of
    hiiting it straight or with a slight draw increases, too.
    
    steve
    

    Gay Brewer and Miller Barber made a little case with this "Action" too,
    if I recall...
    
    --Jack

    ...I meant "Cash..."
    
    --Jack

    
      And I meant the 'flat belly' tour, Jack.  Trevino certainly didn't
     teach the figure 8 to Brewer and Barber or influence them.  Wow,
     Brewer and Barber, two of the ugliest swings (but they work) around.
    
    
    -rick

    I guess the point...and Lee's point...is that the beautiful swing being
    taught and pursued by most is not necessarily the Holy Grail of Golf. 
    Lee's point is that certain swing changes can be made with out trying
    to build the ideal swing.  In fact, based on today's hi-tech clubs,
    swings may indeed need to be different.
    
    As for different swings, the greatest of all time, the Golden Bear, has
    taken heat for years because of the flying elbow.  Examine each persons
    swing and see how different they are.  If copying Lee Trevino is the
    worst you can do ... you are still in good company. 
    
    SCD

Just what does Trevino do? Start outside in and come down inside out? what is 
a figure eight swing?

    Remember, it is how you are at impact that counts. (Quote from SCD and
    others.) One can take the high road or the low road to get there.
    However, it is easier to get there if the route is a simple one.  If it
    works, it does not matter. Look at Calvin Peete, who has an
    underdeveloped left arm.
    Rich

     Tell you what, I'll bet "The loop" would work teaching chronic slicers
    that come over the top with a wide-open clubface. This method will get
    that clubhead revolving...
    
    --Jack

    re:42
    
    Lee suggests that to force the take away inside and force the inside
    outswing usually accomplishes the opposite.  He suggests (and
    pictorially it is quite extreme..but I found it hard to be extreme with
    it)you take the club away outside the line and bring it down on the
    inside of the line.  This action causes your arms to come down on the
    inside track and go through or past the body.  
    
    He also suggests that you use a slightly open stance, again the
    opposite of previous suggestions, which will allow you to clear the
    front side and not have any resistance or body to impair the swing
    track.
    
    Hey, it worked one time, I'll let you know how it goes.  Consider me a
    walking golf laboratory.
    
    SCD

    
    Hi Everyone,
    
    	Well after shooting a wopping 21 over par at Sterling CC trying
    to qualify for the Mass Amatuer... I decided it might be a good time
    to take my first lesson :) .
    
    
    	I'll share what I was taught about the backswing and provide a
    good drill to use.
    
    	1. The main reason for the backswing is to get yourself behind
    		the ball.
    
    	2. The second reason is to provide a full coil of the shoulders.
    
    	To properly execute the backswing try this drill.
    
    
    	For righthanders;
    
    	Lay a club inside the right foot;
    						           club
    						 ball	 |
    							 |
    					    foot         | foot
    
    
    	Take a normal stance with a club in hand.
    
    
    	While maintaining the spine angles , simply reposition the 
    	club in hand so that it is  now being held in each palm,
    	palms up. Then curl it up to the shoulders. Align the hands
    	so they each touch a shoulder.
    
    	Now ,  make a full turn... try to make the club your holding
    	end up directly over the club laying below.
    
    
    	Doing this drill will not only get the left shoulder behind the
    	ball, but also behind the spine... inducing a FULL shoulder turn.
    	
    	With a full turn , your distance will really increase. 
    
    
    	Good luck,
    
    	I'm hoping I can get it working before the final 2 rounds of the
    	club championship. Otherwise I might end up playing more
    	softball this year :) !
    
    	Walta

Walta

Having watched you hit balls better tha most pros at the driving range I find
it hard to believe that you shot 20 over par.


						Regards Phil

    
    Hi Phil,
    
    	Thanks for the kind words... it was quite a humbling experience :)
    
    	I developed a "hitch" at the top of my backswing by trying to 
    	keep from overswinging. My swing became VERY jerky and lost
    	it's timing. I was a basket case, and couldn't keep anything
    	going long enough to see where to aim :) .  Sterling is a
    	VERY painfull experience when you're spraying your tee shots !
    
    	RIght about when the clubs were headed for the cellar... my
    	wife Eunhwa walked the course with me, and with some timely
    	advice... returned me to my old "un orthodox" swing. Which I
    	am comfortable with.
    
    	What a sweetheart.  
    
    	Just in time to play the club championship 1 shot from the lead,
    	with two rounds to go.  I'm hoping my swing can get me through 
    	the next two rounds... but I'm not expecting it.
    
    	Walta

    re:49
    
    Walta...
    Why fix what ain't broke?  Those in constant search of the ultimate
    golf swing ala Tom Purtzer are bound to have those days.  Personally ,
    I am in search of a repeatable swing, but know full well that I like to
    try moving the ball around (even when I know I can't).  Guess each of
    us has his/her own challenge. Guess this is what makes golf a great
    GAME.
    
    SCD  

    Didn't Bobby Clampett disappear from the tour in his search
    for the "perfect swing" ?
    
    Mad Hacker

    Hack Man,
    
    Clampett disappeared and Payne Stewart almost did.  His performance at
    the Open was the result of returning to his "own" game.  Golf, to many
    folks, becomes almost an art form, a Zen-like endeavor.  This seems to
    put the player in a euphoric state that only a +20 score can bring you
    back (as Walta found out).
    
    Hack it, rake it, strike it or stroke hit ... to quote a Nike
    add...just Do It.
    
    SCD ( who has two customer golf outings palnned in the next two weeks)