Conference 7.286::golf

    Re: <<< Note 1073.0 by UFHIS::KHOWE "Problem?? someone say there's a problem?" >>>

    While it is the place where Faldo should be, and stating that I don't
    know the  details  of  the  Sony ranking system, I understand that it
    takes into consideration  the players performance for THREE years, so
    I would guess a player has to be playing very well consistently for a
    relatively long period of time to  make  its  way  all the way to the
    top.
    
    If my memory serves me, I remember  seeing  Seve  rated  #1 for quite
    some time after he stop winning periodically.
    
    The point I am trying to make is that I read/heard a lot of criticism
    to  the  Sony  ranking  system,  and maybe the above wasn't taken  in
    consideration, and people wanted to see changes overnight.
    
    Tavo

    Tavo, as I understand it, the Sony rankings are based on a golfer's
    performance over 3 years, and until this week Norman's record was still
    slightly better than Faldo's. Nick finally closed the gap, but it's so
    close that either one could move in or out of the top spot from week to
    week. 
    
    One reason for all the frustration among (at least) American fans is
    our being conditioned by the coaches' polls in college sports, where a
    team can drop from first to tenth in a week, depending on what happened
    to them in their last game.
    
    		Frank

    Greg Norman was quoted in the latest Golf World as saying he was not
    in agreement with the Sony rankings that had him listed ahead of
    Nick Faldo, and that Nick certainly deserved to be ranked ahead of him,
    based on the way's he's played the last couple of seasons.
    
    Just another example of how classy he is, and if there's a ranking for
    that, Norman's right up there.
    
    		Frank

    Seems odd to me that someone with an accent like Greg Norman's would
    not be considered "British," but I guess he's thought of as more an
    American these days than an Aussie...at least in the USA, where he's
    become an adopted native son. All I know is that for sheer entertain-
    ment, I'll take Norman over Faldo any day (nothing to do with Nick's
    indisputable skills, just that I enjoy watching a slasher like Norman
    more than a grinder like Faldo; much the same reason I'd rather see
    Palmer in his prime than Nicklaus).
    
    
    		Frank

    I agree with the last note. One other thing if I need a par I go
    with Faldo. If I need a birdie or eagle I go with Norman.Also I
    think Payne stewart who is a combination of these two should be
    mentioned here.I am not saying he is quite as good as these two
    but he is getting there.
    
    Ted

    
    
    I think (as I started this note) that Faldo is where he deserves to be.
    What I can't understand is why people rate Norman so highly. The man
    has sat at the top of the world rankings for approx. 3 years in those 3
    years he has never won a major (admitedly come close) and has only won
    one major is his career. Now compare Faldo. Faldo this season has won
    two of the four and finished one shot behind the lead in the US open.
    Over the last three years he has won four majors. That's going some!!
    Re .3 .4 .5 I thinks its unfair to say that Faldo is a par-machine and
    robotic like in performance, he's a very exciting golfer. Just look at
    his first three rounds in this years  British open 67,65,66, you don't
    get scores like that by being a boring golfer. Now if your really
    looking for a par-machine what about Curtis Strange. In the 89 US open
    I beleive (could be wrong) he shot three rounds with only par's on his
    scorecard. What do you think ??
    	In my opinion Faldo (in time) will go into the golfing history
    books as a great, but I don't think Norman will ever be remembered in
    the same light. Payne Stewart to be the next American great....
    
    
    regards,
    
    Keith.

    Re. 6 - Yes, right on...Faldo deserves the ranking (as Norman himself
    said recently). Sony's ranking system is a mystery, and I'm glad their
    TV sets aren't based on the kind of design their golf ratings use.
    
    As for my tastes in entertainment, well: "De gustibus non disputandum
    est," or something like that. I just have more fun watching Norman than
    Faldo. But I have more fun watching Norman than any of the other guys
    on the tour these days. Some people like haggis...what can I say? For
    sheer boredom, I'd put together a foursome of Curtis Strange, Tom Kite,
    John Huston and Nick Faldo...they'd play great golf, but it just
    wouldn't be all that exciting (for me). On the other side, I'd choose
    Greg Norman, Mark Calcavecchia, Payne Stewart and Fuzzy Zoeller. The
    scores might be a little higher, but it would be fun to watch happen!
    
    		Frank

Keith,
	While I agree that Majors should carry more weight in the decision of 
whos best, they shouldn't carry all the weight.  Norman has, over the last 3 
years, had a great number of top 3 finishes.  While Norman hasn't won as many 
majors, he has been robbed of at least 2 by last hole heroics, and has lost a 
couple of other toruneys the same way.  He has made a great deal of money over 
the last 3 years on tour, also.  Now, I agree Faldo should be ranked # 1 in 
the world, but I don't think he should be ranked far above Norman.  And also,
I think Norman will go down in the History books as a great golfer too.  His
personality will certainly help too.  Faldo is a great golfer, but he is so 
quite and un-sociable (during his rounds) that he doesn't get as much 
attention as a Greg Norman or an Arnold Palmer do and have.  I also don't think 
anyone meant any disrespect for Faldo, by calling him a Par-Machine.  Just 
that it tends to be a little more boring to watch.  But it is what wins 
tournaments.  While he pars 61 holes, birdies 9 and bogeys 2 for an 7 under, 
guys like Calcavecchia are paring 48, birdying 12, eagling 2, bogeying 10 and 
double bogeying 2 for a 2 under par score.  Using that scenario, I'd rather 
watch Calcavecchia, but Faldo would shoot the much better scores.

Beak    

    HI,
    
    	Nick Faldo is an awesome golfer. Working with Leadbetter , he has
    	created a swing that uses the large muscles, keeping the small
    	muscle groups as quiet as possible. Which has gained him great
    	results under pressure, where the smaller muscles are more prone
    	to have a "spasm" .. ;) ... like putting to half the hole and
    	yanking it 15 ft past , because your arms, and not shoulders,
    	panicked.
    
    	When Faldo hits the ball, the ball almost always hits and releases
    	the same. He doesn't spin the ball like Norman (noone does :) )
    	Norman has so much power/talent that he CAN produce some
        excitement. Almost the way Seve with his talent for shotmaking
    	generates great excitement. With Faldo's game, he's sooo
    	consistent... he rarely needs the strong recovery shots, that
    	make for exciting viewing. Boy what I'd give to be a boring
    	golfer !!!!
    
    	Calcavechia, Norman, Seve... great to watch. Faldo great to 
    	emulate. IMHO .
    
    	Walta

    I suppose the San Francisco 49ers are boring to watch.  Faldo is
    awesome to watch, what he lacks is personality, charism.  Norman is a 
    crowd favorite just as Trevino and many other are.  They have a human
    aspect that we cant but are finger on.  We always end up say "I like
    that guy".  To Yuppies Faldo is awesome, but his appeal to a Blue
    Collar type is not the same.  He is so smooth, cool, so business like.
    Joe Louis was a great fighter but alot of people like Ali because he
    had that flash.  What would you rather watch Willie Pep or Sugar Ray
    Lenard???  On playing ability alone, Nick Faldo is the best golfer
    today.  
    
    
    Greg
    

    Uh-oh...hot button alert!! Joe Louis was, in my opinion, the greatest
    heavyweight champion of all time, no disrespect to Ali, Marciano,
    Dempsey, et al. And, having seen Willie Pep a few times, I'd rather
    watch him than Sugar Ray Leonard, too (but have never seen the equal of
    the "real" Sugar Ray, in any weight division). Guess this hasn't got
    much to do with golf, but only reinforces the idea that tastes vary,
    and one man's (person's) meat is another man's (person's) poison. We
    all like what we like, and have no reason to justify it, or need to
    apologize for it. But it sure makes for great discussions, eh?
    
    	Frank

     Right on with Willie Pep, Frank. He was an UNBELIEVABLE artist. I grew
    up in Ct. and used to see films of him fighting. He was a genius, but
    he just didn't match up well with Sandy Saddler. Pep was, IMHO, the
    best pure boxer I've seen, but the REAL Sugar Ray was so close I'm not
    sure I can make the distinction...
    
    --Jack
    

    Re -1...looks like we're going down an especially entertaining rathole,
    but I can't resist: I saw Pep's fights against Sadler (on TV, of course),
    and I still believe he was beaten by tactics that should have resulted
    in Sadler being disqualified. About the only thing he didn't do to
    Willie was knee him (and it may be that I just didn't see him do it).
    
    		Frank
    
    P.S. Pretty good Italian, too, Jack!

    re: .6 and others....
    
    	face it " golf is not an exciting game..."
    
    	to be good at golf you need lots of patiences and a swing that
    repeats over and over and over....
    
    	Norman/palmer/calc/etc. and the other so called exciting golfers
    are built up by the media and tv to sell advertizing and make money
    and they've done a great job at it, "give the public entertainment.."
    that is what sells.....
    
    	now if you want golfers who win...go with strange/faldo/etc.
    they understand better that golf is not a game that you overpower
    or that is exciting as all hell...they win because they have their
    emotions under better control than the other guys....
    
    	Hogan was the most boring golfer in his day....
    
    	hit the fairway, hit the green, put for bird, make some
    miss some, but he won more when at his peak playing boring golf
    than anyone around him....he is the only golfer since Bobby Jones
    to come even close to the GRAND SLAM winning three of the four
    majors in 1953...
    
    	if you want excitement and you want good scores go to basketball
    or football or racketball...if you want good scores from golf and
    expect lots of excitement you may be disapointed....
    
    my 2 cents worth
    
    

    RE:-1
    
    
    Strange has his emotions under check ??
    
    On which planet ?
    
    
    Jim
    

    re: .-1
    
    I don't think that's what I said...at least that's not what I
    read when I read it...
    

    Ref: .14, .15 and .16
    
    
    Whats that got to do with Boxing??
    
    :)- :)-
    Ken

    Re. 14 - While I may be predisposed to enjoy watching the "slashers"
    (Palmer, Norman) more than I enjoy the "grinders" (Faldo, Strange),
    I enjoy watching any great golfer at his/her peak, regardless of style.
    I never had the chance to see Hogan, except in film clips, but I'm sure
    I'd have appreciated his skills. Regarding Palmer's place in all this,
    it was Arnie who popularized the game for the "masses" (myself
    included). If he was lionized by TV and other media, it was because he
    had the flair and charisma to get people's attention. It is hardly fair
    to say he was "built up" by TV. If it weren't for Palmer, golf would be
    about as popular as lawn bowling (maybe not such a bad idea,
    considering the overcrowded public courses most of us have to play on).
    
    My 2$ worth.
    
    Re -1: Yeah, what *does* all this have to do with boxing? ;>)
    
    	Frank
    

    It's interesting to note that although Greg Norman made $8,000,000
    last year in endorsements alone, he placed second in that category for
    golf.
    Guess who ?
    
    
    Amazingly, it was Arnold Palmer, who made $9,000,000 last year.
    ...just goes to show how popular a man he was/is.
    
    martin

    The Suntory World Matchplay is coming up at the end of the week.
    (no ratholing about whether it should be called WORLD Matchplay!)
    
    Should be interesting if Faldo and Norman are drawn against each other.
    That would really be exciting stuff. 
    
    Other players in the 12-strong field include Woosnam, Grady, Irwin,
    Billy-ray Brown, Ballesteros, Langer, and McNulty. Anyone help with the
    other three?
    
    Stewart and Olazabel were amongst those who declined to play. Olazabel
    wants to pick up the Vardon trophy for winning the European Order of 
    Merit and is playing in the BMW International Open in Germany.
    
    A comment on the exciting vs. consistent topic.....
    
    Maybe what draws one player to an erratic, spectacular player as
    opposed to a guy who turns out pars by the score depends on their own
    playing level. I like watching Norman, Ballesteros, etc. do the
    miraculous, but I appreciate Faldo turning out the pars consistently to 
    a greater degree. Maybe it's because turning out pars is more
    'relatively' achievable for me than hitting a 300+yd drive or holing 
    from 100 yds. Well at least a few in a row now and again would be nice.
    Personally I THINK I'd be happier shooting a score with all pars than
    the same score with a few birdies and a few double-bogeys. I wish I
    could play to a level where I KNEW the answer.... 8^)
    
    
    
    Phil.
    
    
    
      
    
    
    
    degre
    

    Re. 20...Hmm, interesting theory about why some of us are fans of the
    slashers, while others are fans of the grinders. As one who falls more
    into the slasher-fan category, however, I must say my game in no way
    resembles that of the guys I most admire! If only....;>)
    
    Frank
    
    P.S. I mean no disrespect by the labels "slasher/grinder." Merely
    following the lead of the golf publications. I certainly enjoyed seeing
    Curtis Strange play the final 18 of his second Open victory, and he
    certainly didn't do much "slashing" then, as I recall.

    I checked up on the other three in the World Matchplay tournament at
    Wentworth this weekend... they are Ronan Rafferty, Chip Beck and some
    guy from Japan called Kawagushi. (he's a new one on me!).
    
    
    Apparantly Couples, Stewart and Calcavecchia are all playing in the BMW
    International in Munich this weekend. I'm not sure if this means they
    declined to play in the World Matchplay. However, they're getting a new 
    7-series BMW each for appearing at the International.
    
    
    Still waiting for my invite...8^)
    
    
    Phil.

    
    Faldo has now begun to endorse Bic razors over here in Britain and I
    have never ever seen such a misleading advert. The advert consist of a
    hacker in the background with a voice-over asking "How does a champion
    stay out of the rough" We are then shown Nick walking into the
    foreground upto his ball and hitting it. 
    
    Faldo has never ever in his life just walked upto a shot and hit it. If
    the company gave us a true picture of a Faldo shot they would be
    bankrupt with the air time they would have to buy to show it. The
    advert would be longer than the program it was interupting!
    
    I'm only jealous anyway, even though he just walked up to it, it was
    wonderfully smooth.
    
    POL.
        

    Re .23
    
    Maybe he carries a few razors around in his golf bag. He might need a 
    shave halfway round if he really takes as long as you guys make out.
    
    I guess it's all about Nick being a smooth guy, well-groomed with a
    real smooth swing. But BIC....!!! Well money DOES talk.
    
    
    Phil.
    
    

Re: -.1

>    Maybe he carries a few razors around in his golf bag. He might need a 
>    shave halfway round if he really takes as long as you guys make out.
    
>    I guess it's all about Nick being a smooth guy, well-groomed with a
>    real smooth swing. But BIC....!!! Well money DOES talk.

	Of course if he's not careful while shaving he will add new
	meaning to the name "Nick" Faldo.  (Pun purely intentional.)

	Larry

    Larry,
    
    That was awful!!
    
    I saw the ad last night. You mustn't blink or else you'll miss it. 
    Anyway I felt sorry for the hacker in the background...Nick played from
    the short stuff but the poor old hacker had a terrible lie...8^)
    
    BTW, The gillette worked great this morning....anyone got a plaster??
    
    
    Phil.