Conference 7.286::golf

                    <<< USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GOLF.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< The Good Game >-
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Note 809.1                  4TH COURSE OK'D IN STOW!                      1 of 1
USEM::VOUTSELAS                                       9 lines   8-NOV-1989 10:03
                                -< FINALLY.... >-
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    809.0
    Thanks for the news!! I guess your counting STOWAWAY as a course.
    You just made my day!!
    And it only took 3 yrs!
    
    I'm happy for the Pages, they look lost without a Golf Course.
    Angelo
         
    

                    <<< USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GOLF.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -< The Good Game >-
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Note 859.0                  Plans for new Stow course                 No replies
JUPITR::OTENTI                                       19 lines  31-JAN-1990 07:09
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     Went to the town hall in Stow yesterday to check out the map area
    of the proposed new golf course in Stow. First thing I liked about
    it is, from the map..I can actually step over my stonewall walk a 
    couple feet and I'll be on the 9th fairway! A dream come true!
     Some pretty unique things on the map and report I noticed is, from
    what the report says "the only 3 hole green in the area" it will serve
    as the green for 3 of the holes, another 2 greens will service 4 holes.
    Also it is praising its plans to have the 7th hole completely
    surrounded by water "gauranteeing a hole not to be forgotten".
    It will have a pro-shop and will in the near future be rebuilding the
    dam back to the condition is used to be..bringing back the lake that
    used to be ther instead of the little pond thats there now.
     Its an 18 hole course on 50 acres..seems like it'll pretty cramped
    but I'm not complaining..if Mr. Page gets the final Ok on this course
    and keeps it in half the shape that they kept Stow Acres when they
    owned it this place will be a beautiful course!
    
    Al

                    <<< USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GOLF.NOTE;1 >>>
                      -< The TRUE Head Game... ;-)...:-{ >-
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Note 1046.0                News on new course in Stow                 No replies
DICKNS::F_MCGOWAN "Zoot who?"                        20 lines   9-AUG-1990 13:03
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    This note probably belongs in one of the two on Stow that were opened
    about three years ago, but I thought it would be worth sharing what I
    found out regarding the "new" course that was supposed to be built in
    town.
    
    According to a friend, who lives on Wheeler Road, just across the
    street from where the entrance to the course is planned, the town is
    doing everything it can to help Bob Page get the course built (my
    friend claims the town loves the idea of open space), but Page seems
    unable to get his act together. What should be a simple matter of
    dotting the i's and crossing the t's keeps getting messed up by Page,
    who tries to cross the i's and dot the t's (or something like that).
    
    My friend says "it's just a matter of time," but given Page's rather
    advanced age (I think he's in his 70's), I wouldn't get too optimistic.
    Sure would be nice though! (Especially if he puts in a driving range,
    which would cut 10 minutes off the time it takes me to get to Stow
    Acres and back during lunch hour).
    
    		Frank

                    <<< USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GOLF.NOTE;1 >>>
                      -< The TRUE Head Game... ;-)...:-{ >-
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Note 1045.3          Tentative new league - any interest...?              3 of 3
PINGS::OGREN                                         26 lines   9-AUG-1990 14:23
                          -< Yes, Page is the holdup >-
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    Yeah, that's my impression too. I live in Stow, about 2 par 4s from
    Stow Acres and have been following the Wheeler Rd course in the
    local paper (such as it is ;-).
    
    The town has done about as much as it can do now to preserve the
    open space and allow a course to be built. Stow is very residential
    with many orchards and a couple of golf courses, so this does fit
    with the character of the town.
    
    Page, however, continues to be incredibly sloppy in his work. All
    of his plans are incomplete - he has lost time to rework original
    site plans, environmental plans, and lately even simple traffic
    studies. The less professional his plans are, the less comfortable
    the town feels on the course development. (Also, the town is going
    through a housing development project that has become ugly due to
    town acceptance of poor plans). Nothing Page has done has been close
    to right the first time.
    
    I don't know if Mr Page is naive about the town processes (they
    certainly are more complicated than what he went through with Stow
    Acres), he is not interested in details, or he doesn't have the
    energy for details. I'm sure the course will eventually be built
    - though not necessarily by a Page brother - but for now the clock
    is ticking ....
    
    Eric

I saw Mr. Page at Stow one Saturday morning a couple months ago.  He said that
some of the problems are being caused by the length of time it's taken to get
approvals, zoning changes, etc.  For example he paid for a traffic study about 3
years ago when this started and it cost $5K.  Because it was over 2 years old
when he got the approvals the town is requiring him to get it updated.  Now the
consultant wants $7K to update it! 

The last couple of notes were getting down on Mr. Page.  I have a good
amount of respect for the man.  (But I'm also sure that theres a lot of truth
in what the notes say.)  I'm sure that he'll do a good job building this new
course.  After all the Pages may not have been putting all their cash into the
facilities, but you could never complain about the condition of the course. 

As much as I like Stow (it's my home course) another good course in the
neighborhood, to keep them on their toes won't hurt.  

Larry

    Re:              <<< Note 67.30 by WARPII::WARFIELD "Gone Golfing" >>>

    I second you, Larry.  I talked to Bob about the same time, and he was
    frustrated  about  all the process, nevertheless I read on the Beacon
    (a local paper) that he had resubmitted the project because some land
    (2  acres)  that  he  had  planed to buy fell through, forcing him to
    change the location, I think, of the club house.
    
    And as much as I like Stow Acres,  I  hate the attitude of the people
    who run it, so definetely looking forward to another  course.  (Which
    hopefully make my house appreciate!)
    
    Tavo

    
    AttnTavo:
    
    I hear another rumor that a 5th course is going up in Stow
    near the Pompisiticut school???
    That makes Stow(2) Stowaway(1) Butternut(1) and this new "rumor"?
    
    Of course Butternut is still 3 years in the making!!
    Is the town of Stow run by Dukakis and Murphy??
    Ang
    

    Re:                      <<< Note 67.32 by USEM::VOUTSELAS >>>

    Ang,
    
    It is NO rumor!!!! Stow with 5 courses!!!!
    
    The Stow  Villager  had  an  article  mentioning  that  a  group  had
    submitted a request  to  build  a course in Harvard Road (yes, behind
    Pompo School).
    
    I don't know about  layouts,  but  the  article mentioned the Land is
    about 150 acres but they  were  only going to use 50-60.  Which seems
    to me too few, but maybe they are only counting fairways and greens.
    
    Although it wasn't totally clear, the  word  private  was there.  The
    first thing my wife said was:   "Oh  no,  you  are  not  joining that
    club!" Well, time will tell.
    
    Tavo.
    
    P.S.  I haven't heard or read anything more about Butternut Farm, and
    every time I go by  Bob  Page's  house,  I  see  all his construction
    machinery standing still.
    

    Here is  the  town paper's article I got over the weekend, that talks
    about  the new Wedgewood  Country  Club  in  Stow.    Also  I  played
    yesterday morning with a long  time  Stow  resident, Bart (forgot his
    last name) and he gave an  update  on  both  Wedgewood  and Butternut
    Farm.  Bob Page (Butternut Farm) is  close to  brake  ground and Bart
    said 9 holes  may  open  next spring.  It seems too soon for me but I
    won't complain if it's  true.    With  Wedgewood, the developers were
    going to do a 50+ lot, large houses development, they already had the
    approval for it, but due to  the market conditions they switched to a
    golf club.  Good thinking!  Also the initial thought is  to  make  it
    private, but depending on applications. 
    
    Anyway, here is most of the article.
    
    DEVELOPER TO SUBMIT NEW PLANS FOR STOW GOLF COURSE
    By Jean McCord
    
    Proponents  of  the  Wedgewood  Country  CLub  have  withdrawn  their
    application  for  a special permit and will submit a new  application
    and revised plan to the Stow Planning Board.
    
    Thomas De Vane and Felix Pittorino of  Pitt  Construction  in  Woburn
    withdrew  their  permit application last week for construction  of  a
    golf  course  on  180  acres off Wedgewood and Harvard  Roads.    The
    withdrawal was necessary because the correct procedure ....  had  not
    been followed.
    
    The new plan includes a change in the location of the proposed access
    road.  ...  access will be across from 212 Harvard Road.   ....  (For
    those  of  you New Englanders not familiar with Stow, Harvard Road is
    on the  North  Side  of Rt 117, less than 1/2 mile from the center of
    town, towards Bolton, T.D.).
    
    ...   trafic  studies  indicate  that  the  private golf course would
    generate 170 vehicle  trips per day on peak days, which he said would
    not worsen ....    (Relatively  few trips in my opinion, which points
    again to a private club traffic level, T.D.)
    
    Construction would take place  on  approximately  66  acres, with the
    remaining  112  acres remaining as  unaltered,  natural  open  space.
    Structures would include parking for 105  vehicles, including 5 hdcp.
    spaces;  a 2,500 square foot two-story  clubhouse with snack bar, pro
    shop, offices and storage space;  ...   cart  shed;  ...  maintenance
    shed;  and ponds,  fairways,  tees, greens and cart paths.  (No pool,
    no tennis, only golf) :-), :-(
    
    The Planning board scheduled a public hearing on the  new application
    and plan for Tuesday, Sept 25, at 8 p.m.   An  aditional  meeting has
    been scheduled for Oct. 9.

    Tavo,
    thanks, I guess it is true.  Stow has to be the only non resort
    town with potentially 5 courses !!  Even Stowaway is fixing their
    bunkers and tees!! Must be because of the daughter Marcia trying
    to get her LPGA card. 
    
    Living in Maynard, it will be nice !!
    
    Thanks for the info,
    Ang
    
    
    
    

    
    
    Just talked to Mrs. Page last night and she said that the
    town of Stow has finally given their final approval for the
    beginning of the new Golf Course that her husband Bob Page
    wants to build near the Stow Acres golf course. Said that
    bob "called the choppers" and they should be starting to clear
    the trees very shortly. GOOD! can't wait to have the 9th fairway
    right in my backyard!
    
    

    
    
    They've started construction on the new Butternut Golf course
    in Stow. The loggers came in last week and are clearing out the
    fairways..these boys work fast and furious!, watched one of the
    guys drive his 'skidder' up the lane they made..jump out and
    fire up his chainsaw..dropped a 60 or 70' tree in less than a
    minute..had the branches off it in about another minutes and was
    dragging it out all in less then 5 minutes time!
     hope the rest of the course moves that quickly!
    
    al

    What ever happened to the course being built next to Stow Acres by the
    fellow that used to own Stow Acres?
    
    Assuming we all don't float away.. is it supposed to open this spring? 
    Any idea of price, etc.
    
    Thanks,
    
    
    LI

    
    	I go by a part of it every day on rt 62.  With all the talk 
    	about no love lost between the old owners and new owners and
    	how this course is supposed to blow the current Stow 36 away,
    	it sure doesn't look it from those few holes.  
    
    	They're going to need stop lights the way those holes are so
    	close together.  It's nothing like the size of the current
    	Stow, especially the North course.
    
    	Anyone else have news?
    

    I understand that there is no clubhouse built yet. No word on when it
    is supposed to open.
    Rich

They mis-placed the clubhouse over the winter. The builders poured the
foundation in the wrong direction for a rectangular clubhouse. Unfortunately,
this put enough of it in violation of the Wetlands Act to attract a "stop
work" order from the town. I haven't seen any progress on clubhouse
construction for at least a couple of months. If they open, they'll have
to run it out of a trailer or something.

The local paper has had no sories about the course. Stow Acres just openned
the South course last weekend; Marlboro has but 8 greens in play. Anyway, the
new course looks ok - easy to differentiate fairways, greens, and tees. Also,
some major ponds and puddles where they shouldn't be.

Eric

I don't know if the town's order to stop work on Butternut Farms was ever
lifted, but according to the local bi-weekly it is in place again. There is
no estimate as to when the course will open.

The course had been moving along. Fairways, tees, and greens were all cut to
proper length (judging by color), yellow 150 markers were visible, some traps
filled with sand, and a foot bridge over water was under construction. It
really looked like it could open at any time!

For the past couple of weeks there was no additional work on the bridge, and
mounds of sand for 2 or 3 bunkers were not raked into place. Now I know why,
kind of.

The clubhouse story remains unchanged and, as far as I know, unresolved. The
newest episode has to do with the parking lot. According to the Conservation
Commission, the new parking lot plans violate the wetlands by greater than
1000 sq feet (may be as much as 2500). The CC also had problems with a gravel
road Mr Page wanted to build through the wetlands. Mr Page offered to replace
110% of the wetlands (not sure how), but the CC must not have been impressed.

Of the 2 main issues, the Commission acted negatively towards the first (parking
lot) with no decision on the second. Page is miffed about it taking 6 years to
build a golf course.

No dates were given for either resolution of the problems, or expected openning
date.

    Hey everybody!!  Just got the word from a friend who lives in Stow.
    
    Butternut is now open!!  Don't know any particulars yet on pricing.
    Will post when I find out.
    
    May the BIRDIES be with you!!!
    
    	Bill

    
    	How do you get there?  I go by it twice a day on rt 62 but have
    	never seen a sign.  Is the clubhouse off of rt 62?
    
    	I also saw a twosome out there at 7:30 this morning. 
    	
    	Thanks,
    	Tom
    

    Here you go, 2 answers in one reply.
    
    As I promised, here is the information for playing Butternut;
    
    	Rate is		$20.00  Weekdays
    			$25.00  Weekends
    
    	Carts		None
    
    	Time		7am-Dusk
    
    	Reservations	7 Days in Advance
    
    	Phone		508-897-3400
    
    	Address		Butternut Golf Course
    			Wheeler Road
    			Stow, MA.   01775
    
    	To get there	From Stow center where Rts 117 & 62 meet
    			take Rt 62 South about 1-1 1/2 miles on 
    			the right to Wheeler Road.  Take right
    			and the driveway to the course will be on
    			your left about 1-2 tenths of a mile.
    
    		Good Luck and Keep'em Straight
    
    		Bill.......

    Here is the info off of the scorecard for Butternut Golf Course
    
    	Hole	White	Red	Par	Hcap
    
    	1	334	246	4	15
    	2	185	146	3	16
    	3	415	336	4	5
    	4	169	138	3	13
    	5	421	327	4	6
    	6	409	300	4	3
    	7	484	388	5	10
    	8	290	248	4	7
    	9	473	357	5	8
    out		3180	2486	36
    
    	10	625	502	5	1
    	11	140	124	3	18
    	12	385	282	4	4
    	13	215	150	3	14
    	14	389	242	4	2
    	15	356	281	4	11
    	16	184	137	3	17
    	17	364	268	4	9
    	18	367	267	4	12
    in		3025	2253	34
    tot		6205	4739	70

I heard the word that it was open and played the front nine yesterday evening.
Just $10 for the nine holes.

They are working out of a trailer right now as the club house construction is
only at the foundation stage. The course itself is certainly complete and in
good shape (after just a few hours play one would hope it would be!). The first
is just a few yards away, but that green you can see if for the ninth hole - I
have no idea where the 18th is! The tenth tee is a coule of hundred yards away.

Of the holes I saw, the most interesting was the eighth. It has two set of tees
- for the men, the alternative tee played as a 230 yard par 3! The 290 yard tee
is not ready and I think I played from 278 yards. As a par three, the hole is
along the edge of a pond. As a par four, it is across the same pond. I would
guess the minimum carry to the fairway is 150 yards. For anyone who has great
accuracy with their driver and can hit a green from 278 yards away, there is an
excellant eagle opportunity! :-)

For once, I was hitting the ball straight and it made the course quite easy. A
lot of the holes are in the woods and relatively narrow.

Today is the last day with no tee times. Their ads will be running saying that
they open on Monday - obviously, ignore that part of them. The guy in the
proshop is the grandson of the owner.

I'll be back.

/Neil

    I've tried to move all the Butternut related ntoes to a single
    thread, while retaining the time sequence...  I was about to add al
    the scorecard info (I picked une up yesterday), but found someone
    else had already done so.
    
    Please continue to use note 62 for Stow Acres related discussions.
    Thanks!
    
                                Andy Ostrom
                                Your Moderator

    Has anybody played the new course (Buttercup) in Stow yet. I heard it
    opened two weekends ago. This course was built by the Page Brothers,
    orignal owners of stow acres. Any comments on the course would be 
    appreciated. Also what are the Green fees.
    
    Thanks.
     

    Sorry Butternut not Buttercup I also found the Butternut note.
    
    Thanks Again.

    One of the guys I work with has played it - he loves it, and loves the
    condition of the course. He's a mid handicap guy, and not a long
    hitter, but he's fairly reliable as far as judging courses go. My guess
    is that the place isn't great, but it's good enough - and a nice
    alternative to Stow. We can always use more good courses.
    
    __Jack

    I moved the previous notes here from the locatin where they were
    starting a new thread on the same topic...
    
    Now, on to the matter at hand.  I played Butternut last Thursday.  I
    really enjoyed the course.  (This may be colored by having a great
    [by my standards, anyway] round).  Most of the front 9 is pretty
    straight.  The fairways are pretty narrow, but if you can hit the
    ball down the middle you'll be OK.  The grass is nice, the fairways
    are soft (the no carts policy should help keep them that way).
    The 8th hole is a real challenge, it's either a 200+ par 3 or a 260+?
    (it says 285, but I don't believe it) par 4 from over a bend in the
    river that leaves you VERY little margin for error.
    
    The 10th (I think the 10th) is a 625 par 5 with a tree on the left
    side that makes it "interesting."   it was pretty dark by the time we
    got to 15 - 18, so I can't remember much about them.
    
    Overall, I liked the course...
    

                                Andy Ostrom

    The 8th is either a 240 yard par 3 or a 278 yard par 4. They have not
    built the 290 yard tee yet... A following wind aided a golfer in hitting
    into us on the green - it actually finished on the far side of the
    green...

    The tree you are thinking of is on the 7th which runs parallel to the
    (oh so long) 10th hole. Apparently the Boston Globe sugguested it
    should be a par 6. The problem is not just the length of the hole but
    that it makes a dog leg right within 150 yards of the flag and that
    the green has a pond protecting it left and center. It seemed
    particularly challenging with the flag on the far right, let alone
    trying to get a good score playing it for the first time!
    
    /Neil

    Yes, that's the one.  We didn't know about the water, and it's a
    blind approach...  We're playing there again this afternoon, I think
    playing it for a second time I'll try to play it differently.
    

                                Andy Ostrom

Greetings!

FIRST
A simple thank you to the many contributors to this file.  I am a new golfer
this summer, and have gained a wealth of knowledge from reviewing the material.

I had the wonderful experience of playing this newly-opened course this past
Friday afternoon.  YES - last Friday while it was pouring (well - at least
for the front 9).  I guess that makes me a certifiable golf nut, eh?  Anyway,
I would like to give a few impressions gathered from that adventure.

I saw the imfamous `turned sideways' foundation, and it is indeed close to
the swamp/pond.  I don't know how they ever got a building permit - sideways
or not.  It just seems too close with respect for the recent Wetlands Act.

The price to play is $10 for 9 holes, $20 for 18 holes.  You can use a hand
cart, but so far there is no riding carts.  I will ask next time if they will
have some in the future or if it will be kept pure for walkers only.  You can
call for tee times and do not need a credit card to do it, however, you if
sign up for a foursome - you are responsible for a foursome.  So if one of
your party doesn't show, hope that a `walk on' is there to fill the space.

Now, the Butternut Farm Golf Club PO Box 366, Wheeler Road in Stow MA 01755
has a phone # 508-897-3400.  The course is supurb in the rain, one can only
imagine what it is like on a sunny, warm, fall day (like this Friday, Lord?).
The fairways are a mix of narrow to wide open, and are groomed to a carpet-like
feeling.  The greens are so perfect, that even in the pouring rain, the water
does not accumulate to slow down the speed of the ball significantly.  So, don't
make the mistake of over compensating like I did.

All the holes are challenging, and there a a couple of holes worth noting.
Like the 8th hole that offers you a choice of teeing across the swamp/pond or
alongside it.  The 10th hole is 625 yards long with a short, downhill dogleg
right at the very end.  At the bottom of the hole, there is a pond in front of
the green, which is elevated above the pond.  This course has not been rated
yet.

All in all, I think you all should stay away from this course, so my foursome
can enjoy it all by ourselves.    ;^)

    	---YARDS---				---YARDS---
HOLE	WHITE	RED	PAR		HOLE	WHITE   RED	PAR
================================	===========================
 1	334	246	4		10	625	502	5
 2	185	146	3		11	140	124	3
 3	415	336	4		12	385	282	4
 4	169	138	3		13	215	150	3
 5	421	327	4		14	389	242	4
 6	409     300     4		15	356	281	4
 7	484	388	5		16	184	137	3
 8	290	248	4		17	364	268	4
 9	473	357	5		18	367	267	4
OUT	3180	2486	36		IN	3025	2253	34
    					TOTAL	6205	4739	70

We shot from the laser beam markers behind the blues, remember, we were crazy
enough to play in the rain.  I shot a 108 - wet grips and all.

Joe

    THe MGA has visited the course and their markers have been added to
    every tee. This certainly increased my confidence about the yardage of
    a number of shots. No rating as of last week but I assume that will
    follow soon.
    
    /Neil

    
    I played Butternut Farm Golf Course on Monday.
    
    I like it.  The clubhouse is still under construction.
    
    There is no dress code (ie: collared shirts).
    The greens were in very good shape.  The first couple
    holes did not have women's tee boxes are we weren't paying
    attention.
    
    I was quite pleased with my score for my first time out this
    season, especially with the frustrating time at the driving 
    range the night before.  
    
    Plenty of water and some tee-boxes and greens are bunched 
    together.
    
    I liked it.
    
    #24

	In Today's Golf section of the Boston Globe, they said next week's
course would be Butternut in Stow. So there will be a writeup of Butternut
in next Thursday's Golf section of the Boston Globe.

Ron

    Has Butternut been rated yet?

    Yes, Butternut has been rated. However, there were many complaints
    about the rating being low so that the MGA will return to do another
    evaluation in the near future. The current ratings follow:
    
    			Rating		Slope
    
    		Back	69.3		 117
    		Middle	67.1		 113
    		Front	66.2		 105
    
    Rich

Hi,

I assume that someone has played Butternut this year.  Is the clubhouse finally
finished?  (Looking for a place to schedule an outing soon..)

Thanks,
John

    Re:         <<< Note 1671.37 by RANGER::GORCZYCA "So, what's ya point?" >>>

    I played Butternut about a little over a month ago and the club house
    was open but  not  fully  finished.    I  would expect that by now it
    should. Give them a call, 897-3400.

    Played Buttersquash last week. Clubhouse status is:
    	There is a counter where you pay your greens fees at
    	one end, and buy your beer(s) at the other.
    
    	There are tables and chairs in there for pre- and post-
    	match refreshments.  In the refreshment department, they
    	have hot dogs, candy bars and snacks, and bottled drinks
    	and a decent selection of bottled beers.
    
    	Restrooms are functional.
    
    	No pro shop.
    
    	You  probably know that Butternut is a walkers-only course.
    	No motorized carts.
    
    Louise

    re: walkers only 
    
    It's about time some course did that! That earns Butternut extra points
    in my book... 

    Re:                      <<< Note 1671.40 by BIRDIE::POWIS >>>

    re: walkers only
    
    While  I  hate  to  be forced to ride a cart and walk  all  the  time
    possible, unfortunately  there are many players that need to ride due
    to physical problems. The lack of riding carts makes Butternut out of
    limits for them.
    
    My take is that Butternut is walkers only for two reasons:
    
    First and most, Bob Page  hates  carts,  he  never introduced them at
    Stow Acres because of the damage  to  the course.  Second, the course
    is too tight to put cart paths.
    
    Tavo

        What are the daily and weekend rates ?
    
        Thanks
            Paul

    I've been paying $28 for 18 on the weekends.  Not sure
    on the weekday rate - I think someone told me $22 but don't 
    bet the ranch on it. Also - I think they may have a 9 hole rate,
    and a late-day rate.
    
    I'm playing there Saturday - I'll try to remember to check out the 
    entire fee schedule and post here.
    
    Louise
    

    ref. -1
             Looking forward to the fee posting. Another point, I have been 
          told the course is difficult (a relative term to one's play).
          Can you elaborate. Ie; is the course long, are there blind shots,
          are the fairways narrow. Your impressions.
    
    Paul  

    I played Butternut last year and was not much impressed.  A couple of
    holes seemed to be designed by Walt Disney...
    
    It's not an easy course.  I'd have to characterize some of the
    toughness due to some holes being relatively narrow.  I remember one of
    the Par 5s on the backside (#11 perhaps?).  It was about 600 yards and
    narrow.  If you didn't get your second shot to the 150 marker, you
    really couldn't see the green for your third shot (because it was
    waaaaaaaaay down at the bottom of a hill).
    
    When I played, the greens were real slow.  I've played on courses that
    had faster fairways on the stimpmeter than the greens at Butternut.
    
    There are a couple of holes too close together.  I felt like a sign
    should have been posted on one of the tees: "Danger - hard hat area".
    
    I guess the course just needs some maturing before I get to like it.
    
    Mike

    
    	As far as fees, I played the other day at 4:30 and it was
    	$12 (weekday), which would be their twilight rate.  Most 
    	days have leagues now.
    
    	Lots of reseeding of tees and they need it.  It's pretty
    	scraggly.  The fairway grass seems to divot easily and it's
    	obvious most people don't replace 'em.   The greens are still
    	very slow.
    
    	The 10th is the long par 5.  There's a new front tee so it's not
    	as long from there but you're right - if you don't get to the
    	corner, you don't see the green.
    
    	As far as difficulty, the only problem is the tightness.  Lots
    	of shouts of "fore!!!" between holes.  People are always on each
    	others fairways.
    
    	There doesn't seem to be much happening to improve the shape
    	of the course.  I've never seen anyone working out there.
    
    	Oh yeah - they let fivesomes out too.  The guy said to us "they'll
    	be no problem, they play fast".  Well, there were two beginners in
    	my foursome and we waited on every shot.  That fast playing group
    	took 2:45 to play nine.  Their walking pace showed that they didn't
    	even care about the groups behind them.
    
    	Tom
    

    ref. 45 46
                 Thanks for the replies. I am not downing the course based
             on your impressions, but I think I will hold off playing until
             later in the season. 
    
       Paul

    I've played Butternut quite a few times between last year and
    this year. I have to agree with the last few repiles re:
    	- many people find the fairways narrow - that doesn't bother me too
    	  much - I don't hit 'em that far, but I usually hit 'em straight
    	- lots of people playing in the wrong fairway. Lots of
    	  chuckleheads who forget to yell 'Fore'
    	- tees are a real mess right now. Hopefully this is temporary.
    	- fairways are full of divots.  I am beginning to thing that
    	  a lot of clueless people play at Butternut because I see of lot
    	  of fresh divots that have not been replaced. 
    	- Another reason that I am beginning to think that a lot of
    	  clueless people play Butternut is that play has been extremely
    	  slow the last few times I have been out on the weekend. Last
    	  week's example - the foursome ahead of us playing from the blues
    	  who hit to approximately the area of the white tees - then a 
    	  third shot to barely clear the forward tees. No exxageration.
          I've never seen a Marshall at Butternut. They need one
    	  desperately.
    
    The 10th hole is particularly heinous with the length and hidden green,
    but the rest of the holes are relatively benign. No blind approach
    shots or anything like that. A couple of the Par 3s (2 and 11) have
    elevated greens, but you can see the flagstick, if not the putting
    surface. I think it's an easier course for women -
    forward tees are very generous.  In spite of all my complaints, I
    really like Butternut, but I'm getting concerned about the condition
    of the course. If it doesn't start to look better soon, I'll be 
    giving it over to the legions of the clueless and play elsewhere.
    
    Louise  

Over two months later now, and I though I would add an update.

I've played the course a couple of times recently. Things are much the same -
the clubhouse is still not quite complete although functional. A pro shop has
been added.

The biggest change? I saw maintenance work on the course! Apart from the mowing,
they were working on the bunkers! Naturally, I found the bunker which was next
in line for treatment! They have quite a bit of erosion damage in their bunkers.
Since we haven't had any big storms recently, they can't do this maintence very
often...

Unlike some courses, they wait for nature to remove the dew from the greens.
Slow does not begin to describe how fast they were not at 7:30am!

/Neil