Conference 7.286::golf

    Gene, I don't know all the specs of my clubs but here's what I do
    know:
    
    	length: ?
    	shaft flex: Regular
        swingweight: C3
        lie: standard
        loft:   ?
    
    
    						Mike
    

    
    
      Irons:   Sounder Tour   (pinned)
      shaft:   Stiff
     weight:   D2
       loft:   All checked by a club maker and are correct
        lie:   Standard
    
     Woods:    Ping Look-alikes, Gold Boron Stiff shafts, D0 swingweight

    
    Clubs:	Dunlop Max 357's
    Shaft:	Stiff
    weight:	D1
    Loft:	??? (I assume standard) 
    Lie:	Standard
    

    
    Clubs:	Yep, got 'em right here in the bag. 
    Shaft:	Every one of 'em. 
    weight:	Some are a little heavy now that you mention it, especially
		on the back nine. 
    Loft:	Nope, keep 'em in the garage.
    Lie:	Absolutely not! This is a gentleman's sport!
    

    Gene,
    
    I'd have to dig out my spec's...what I did when I was ready
    to buy new clubs about four years ago was to write the manufactures
    of my set getting spec's and from other manufactures I asked for
    spec's on clubs I was interested in then compiled a chart....
    
    what the chart told me was that they were all pretty much the same
    some variations depending on type of club, but what really caught
    my eye was that the clubs I'd been using (wilson) seemed to be 
    about a 1/2 in. shorter throughtout the set compared with other
    manufactures....even the one I asked for spec's on (1200g.e.) were
    slightly shorter than other manufactures...
    
    anyway it came down to "get a set that will last for 10 years"
    so I ended up buying the HOGAN RADIALS and have never been sorry...

    irons: sand wedge - wilson jerri pate model, 2-pw wilson staff, ping 1
                        iron, all stiff shafts, don't know the swing
    		        weights, i think they are D-3, standard length and
    		        lie
    
    metals: all Taylor Made, driver 9.5 degree, 2 metal 12 degree, 3 metal
            17 degree, 5 metal 23 degree, all stiff shafts, don't know 
            the swing weights
    
    putter: BuCu Ping pal 2, 36" shaft

 Currently my bag is made up of the following:
     Clubs: John Riely Repeaters
     Length: 1/4 inch over mens standard (woods and irons)
     Loft:   standard but haven't checked them in 8 months
     Flex:   stiff
     Lie:    3 degrees flat on all clubs except sand iron
     
     Driver: 11 degrees loft, 0 degrees open
     Sand iron: Wilson R-90 becu
     Putter: Have 4 different ones (and no good with any)
    
     Swingweight: d-0 on driver thru pw
    
    THE MAD HACKER

    Lemme see if I can get this right...
    
    Metal Driver:  Taylor made 9.5 degrees loft, standard lie, stiff shaft,
    not sure how long, D-1 swingweight.
    
    Wooden Driver:  Sounder persimmon, 10 degrees loft, standard lie, stiff
    shaft, haven't used it in so long I forget the rest.
    
    4-Wood:  Wilson, 16 or 17 degrees loft, standard lie, stiff shaft, not
    sure how long, D-2(?) swingweight.
    
    1-iron:  Titleist, 1 degree upright, stiff shaft, D-1 singweight.
    
    2-Pw:  Wilson Staffs, stiff shafts, standard lie, standard length,
    swingweight D-2.
    
    SW:  Too old to care.  I need a new one.  It's a Hogan though :-).
    
    Putter:  Wilson.  Very similar to the one used by Ben Crenshaw.

    
    
    	Irons: 	Ping Eye 2
    	Length: +1"
    	Shaft:	Stiff, ultra lite. 
    	Weight:	D1
    	Lie: 	Upright, Green on the Ping chart.
    	Loft:   Standard I guess, Lob wedge is 65 degree's.
                
    
    John                   
    

	Irons:  MacGregor Muirfield 20th Edition, Stainless (3-PW)
	Length: Regular
	Shaft:  Stiff, Dynamic Gold
	Weight: Unknown
	Lie:    Regular

	I picked the Muirfield's up a few months ago and I really like 
	them.  For the past two years I played Pings, which I put in
     	the closet:

	Irons:  Ping Eye 2 (1-LW)
    	Length: +3/4"
    	Shaft:  Stiff, ZZ Lite
	Weight: Unknown
	Lie:    Upright -- green dot

    Gene,
    
    I'll be honest. All I know about my clubs are the numbers printed
    on the heads and the makers name on the other side.
    
    Should I know more ?  Why ?  Will this help my game or just my ability
    to sound knowledgeable in the club-house?  Once again, is this another
    transatlantic difference ?
 
    I ask these questions, not to be facetious but because I am really
    interested in the answer. None of my friends, who I play regularly
    with, seem to worry about these factors but obviously it is very
    important to a lot of noters as evidenced by some of these replies.
                                           
    Your help on this would be appreciated.
    
    M.
     

    
    re. .11   I'm with you and your friends across the pond.  All I
            care about is that I'm hitting stiff shafts and all the
            weights and lies are standard, since I'm of medium height
            and build.  Course, I feel the same way about cars. While
            some people really get into engine specs, tourque and all
            that other stuff, I just want something that will get me
            from point A to point B.  To each his own.
    
    -rick

       I haven't the foggiest idea, either, about most of what Gene
       asked about.  I know the brand name and model of the clubs
       I carry, but that's about it. 
       
       Of course, if everyone were like the last few replies and myself,
       the golf magazines might go out of business.
       
       --Mr Topaz

    
    RE: .11
    
    	M.,
    
    	Let me answer you this way... A set of clubs that are fit to
    	you (anybody) will defineately make a difference in your game.
    	It is important to know (at least in my opinion) the specs if
    	you were in the market for a new set. How would you know what
    	to look for if you didn't know what the specs were on the old
    	set? I guess it all boils down to what you want to do with your
    	game. I think that you will find that the majority of the low
    	handicappers/serious golfers will know the specs on their clubs
    	and or have been fitted for their clubs and or are often trying clubs
    	with different specs to see what works best for them and their
    	swing/game...
    
    	Gene (whose_handicap_was_a_15_at_the_start_of_last_season_and_is-
    	      now_down_to_a_7_with_custom_clubs)

>    	Gene (whose_handicap_was_a_15_at_the_start_of_last_season_and_is-
>    	      now_down_to_a_7_with_custom_clubs)

	Maybe you should experiment with different balls that will probably
	get your handicap down to a 3. ;-)

	Larry

re: .11

Part of it depends on your physical size and ability.  Rick Blaisdell 
mentioned in his response that he only cares about stiff shafts.  Well,
Rick is of average height and has the physical ability that REQUIRES
stiff shafts (boy, whatta swing).  The other things like swingweight and
lie angle he mentioned doesn't care about.  Well, he is obviously 
comfortable with his Titleist Tour Blades.

In my case, I'm 6'3" and have tinkered with Pings to get an upright lie
and longer shafts.  This is really a comfort issue.  It makes sense to me
that if a golfer is not in the 5'10" range he might want to dabble with lie
angle and shaft length to be comfortable.  I believe this is important. 
Why fool around with a set-up and swing-plane because of a set of clubs
that doesn't fit your physique? 

Beyond the physical size and ability issues are another whole "golf 
technology" world. How do you fit a golfer with the *exact* clubs that fit
his tempo and trajectory with the right swingweight, kick-point, etc.  How
much do these things really matter?  How far along was golf technology 
(grips, balls, shafts, etc.) when Vardon, or Jones, or Hogan played?  
Of course, if I can just get that edge that will improve my game...

Jeff

   Excellent point about height, Jeff. Sorry about my previous cavalier 
  attitude about the equipment.  Just as a lot of people need to have clothes 
  tailored, a lot of golfers need to have clubs tailored for them as well.  
  If you are tall, short or have some other unusual physical characteristic,
  then *definitely* get fitted for your clubs.  It will, without question,
  help your game.  It helped Gene obviously (plus playing 8 days a week
  helps too, right Mr Kelley?) .  ;^)

      And Jeff, if you keep spreading these rumors about my swing, then
  folks are going to demand to see my name in the Sandbaggers topic.

-rick_currently_at_a_12   (my putting has improved though, from miserable
                           to intensely mediocre)
    

    I don't know my specs, just that the clubs "felt good" when I hit them
    prior to buying them. I do know my irons are 1/2 inch longer than
    standard and have stiff shafts, Powerbilt "Grand Slams". Woods are
    Dunlop Diamond Max metals. 
    
    I have always wondered whether custom clubs would actually make
    a difference. From some of the preceding replies I'm starting to
    think it might. I bought the powerbilts because they felt good,
    and once I got used to them I started to shoot in the low to mid
    90's. That was 2 years ago.
    
    For next season, I am thinking about getting a set of clubs with
    the right lie, swingweight, etc. and then I'll probably know what
    the specs are. But I made a mistake going to Nevada Bobs, hitting
    the clubs and buying them. (That was before I found this notes file).
    I won't do that again. On the other hand, I have no idea who to
    go to or what the best specs are for my game. 
    
    Greg
    
                              

    The only thing that repeats about my swing is the sustained 
    mediocrity.  Frankly, I am too poor a golfer to worry about the
    details of swingweight, loft, and so on.  I think that lower 
    handicaps need to be sensitive to this.  But when hitting the sweet
    spot is all too rare, well....
    

re:   SANFAN::GRANT_JO "Don't say `S**nk'" 

       We beg of you.  Please change your personal name. Pretty please?
                      8^}
    
    -rick    

  I am going to agree that the proper clubs can be important to some
    some players but others, it's a waste of time.  I was set up
    by a club pro who videoed my swing, and took my 3 years of 
    playing experience into consideration.  He also agreed that
    clubs can only do so much and the rest is up to the player
    to spend the time and take lessons on a regular basis. I am
    6'0" with a 94 mph driver speed and my clubs are Memphis
    Tour Classics.  The specs are :
    
    Driver: 8-3/4 degree
    3-met : 13 degree
    5-met : 24 degree
    all drivers are 1-degree upright loft with X-400 true temper stiff
    shafts and D-1 swingweights with length 1/4 longer than stand.
    irons : These are also 1-degree upright lie and stand length with
    D-1 swingweights
    
    Good luck on your business if you start it up, with the growth of
    the sport skyrocketing, the demand for QUALITY work is certainly
    there.
    
    Ronnie

The specs on my clubs are:

Driver: Custom made persimmon
	12 deg loft 42 3/4 " TT Dynamic stiff
	SW D1 OW 13.7 oz

3 Wood	Haig Ultra Laminated
	17 deg D2 Reg shaft all other standard

5 Wood	same as 3 wood all std specs

Irons
	Custom made Custom Built Std loft/lie 2- SW
	TT Dynamic stiff shaft
	Std length (modern standard)
	D2

RE: .21

	Ronnie

	The specs on the 3 metal and 5 metal are interesting.
With 13 degrees loft it should be a 2 Metal.  Normally a 3
is around 17, yours is very strong.  The 5 metal is weak.  Is
there a special reason for these specs?  Just wondering


					KO

    I have 8.5 driver,reg shaft,43",flat lie.
    My irons are reg shaft,V grooves,tour head,forged,ext hosel,
    On rainy days I go to 13 degree driver ,convex lie,14 degree 3 Wd.
    On hot days I use 100 comp balata Titelist
    On cold days 100 DT lithium
    on fast greens no back weight putter
    on slow green swing weighted back weighted .
    D3 on both drivers . D3 on irons
    Prisimon drivers pick up 1/10 of 1 % weight each year of use
    and hardness on face hardens at same rate.
    (ie NORMAN doesn't use metal woods)
    Are you an ex tennis player?
    
    
    

    Just one question? Are you an ex tennis player?
    

      
    
      Gene,
    
      9 irons, 1 putter, 3 (new metal) woods for some course butt kickin!.
    
    
    
    
    b.y.

    Irons 2-PW  Spaulding XL4s
    	all stiff shafts and have
        D1 swingweight, so the salesman told me.
        Lies and lenghths are I guess, standard, but
        I don't really know.
        SW is a PGA 58 degree loft.  That's all I know about it.
    
    Woods
          I just bought a new driver, and am still looking for a 3Wood
      Driver,
              Macgregor Muirfield metal wood.  It is a High Trajectory
      2 degree closed face model.  The salesman once again, told me
      it was a D2 swingweight and had a 12 degree loft.  A regular shaft
      and standard length.  I really like this club as I have played
      2 rounds with it and been to the driving range once and am hitting
      the ball either with a slight fade, straight or even a draw when
      I really roll my hands thru.  I used to constantly hit either a
      fade or a slice off the tee.

      Gene, I honestly beleive you when you say knwoing all the specs
    of your clubs, and having them fiited to you will save you strokes
    and help you play better.  But my question/problem is, how do you
    experiment with different specs?  Every place I've been to to buy
    clubs, have at best, and even it's rare, one set of demonstrator
    clubs.  They are a given set of specs.  No place I know will fit
    you to a set of clubs with a given set of specs, let you take them
    for a week, then let you bring them in, tell them you don't like
    them, fit you to another set of clubs with a little different set
    of specs, etc., etc., etc..  The process of finding what's right
    for you thru sales people and even pros, seems to me, to be one
    of several years, and several different sets that end up costing
    you more than the price of a moderately priced car!!!  Please, explain
    to me how to go about doing this, if you can, before I buy a 3-wood
    that I am looking for.  Keep in mind, I have 90 dollars in gift
    certificates from Fran Johnsons, so I would really like to go there
    to purchase this club.
    
    Thanks in advance for what you can tell me
    Beak

    
    Beak,
    
    If you can find a custom club maker, they should have clubs with
    carious specs to try. They will probably allow you to try a few
    of them for a day or two, let you try them in their nets, or have
    you try them on a swing analyzer. I agree that it would cost some
    big bucks to go and buy clubs with various specs until you find
    the ones that realy feel good and give you the best results. I 
    guess the bottom line is that you have to find that custom club
    maker or pro that will allow you two try clubs with various specs,
    they do exist...
    
    Gene
    
    

    Gene, that's the problem I have.  Everything is geared toward
    customization and it makes it very difficult for the average golfer
    to buy good equipment without getting into all the intricate detail
    of custom club making and the specs which he or she may or may not
    know anything at all about.  In my case, Fran Johnsons has a practice
    net and will let you hit any club into it.  Unfortunately, this
    tells you very little.  You never get a chance to see the flight
    of the ball or the end result.  Then theres the swing analyzer.
    It's great for determining swing flaws and such, but not whether
    you should be using a D0 or a D5 or something else.  It tells you
    your swing speed.  And one guy told me at 89 MPH, I should use a
    stiff shafted club.  I bought my entire set with stiff shafts. 
    Then, when I bought my driver just recently, the computer showed
    my swing at 87 MPH and a different guy said you have to swing over
    95 MPH to really use stiff shafts, so I got a regular flex shaft.
    Anyway, I know what swingweight is but very little about what
    swingweight I should use and what lowering or highering it will
    do for my swing.  It all seems to be a big guessing game.  If I
    only had the time!!!
    
    Beak

    
    Beak,
    
    When you were using the swing analyzer they should have been
    having you try clubs with different shafts and different swingweights
    to see which ones DID give you the most club head speed...
    
    Gene

    >Kevin about those 3 and 5 metal drivers that are in my bag!!!!
     I live in Florida, the land of much wind and thick roughs.....
     I also carry McGregor Tourney T-2 1966 models persimmon with
     the aluminum firing pin inserted into the sole face and these
     have been refurbished. 
    
    What happens on most of the par 3's that I hit to is the difficulty
    of hitting accurate approach shots (wind) with my irons plus the
    lack of a pure swing.  He set those heads on those clubs with the
    option of being to change them at any time I saw a disadvantage
    due to the loft of the face. This is mostly for the 5 driver.
    Kevin due to so much rain the d____ rough is next to impossible
    to ground a iron and that lofty 5 sure comes in handy !!!!
    
    The 3 driver kind of came about by accident when I was taking some
    lessons.  I had a mental block about over swinging the driver and
    he set this club up strictly for lessons.  I see the little head
    on the end and I automaticly ease up on my swing.  The loft gives
    long distances without getting the ball up on those days when the
    wind is really blowing.   That is also so the reasoning behind the
    8 3/4 faced driver.  
    
    Kevin, all I can say is in most cases they are the right clubs most
    of the time, on this course I play, but they may hurt me somewhere
    else. 
    
    Ronnie

    re: note .31
    
    My old golf pro once told me that many amateurs hit their 3 woods
    farther than their drivers for the very reasons elucidated in
    note 31.  My longest club is a two wood (taylor made metal, 
    actually) that I much prefer to a driver.
    
    

Ronnie,

>>	The 3 driver kind of came about by accident when I was taking some
>>    lessons.  I had a mental block about over swinging the driver and
>>    he set this club up strictly for lessons.


	I've heard of this before.  My driver has a shallow
face and it seems to help.

	Interesting about trying to keep the ball down with the
stronger lofts.  Here in Vermont it tends to be a bit windy
also.  I tend to hit the ball VERY high so I changed to a 
dynamic shaft (high bend point) to help.  I still hit the ball
high but I've hit more greens this year then in the last 10
years combined.  (Well at least it seems that way)

	As for getting out of the rough, I've recently worked
on a Ginty (I believe that lots of manufactures make them)
It certainly looks like it will get you out of any rough.
They come in various lofts (the last one I worked on was a 12
wood) so depending upon the course you could carry 1 or a
few of them.

	Thanks for the info..... I hope it dries out down 
there.


						KO