Conference 7.286::golf

    
    There's lots of ways to slice a golf ball.  Poor/improper alignment,
    swinging from the top, not turning the right hand over the left
    throught impact.......  I won't bore you with all the different
    ways that I've done it.  You are right though, a lesson would at
    least tell you what you have to work on.
    
    Hooding (closing down the clubface) the club will never work in the
    long run (trust me I know this).  Eventually the slice will come
    back at the worst possible time.  There is however another way out
    of this.  I used to play golf with a guy who started the ball off
    so far left of the fairway, I wondered what golf course he was playing.
    Of course when it landed in the fairway, it became clear.  The
    guy was a 7 handicap only because he couldn't putt.  If you know
    it's going left to right all the time, aim it left and let it come
    back into play.  After all there ain't no pictures on the scorecard
    and there's no room to write down how you hit it, just how many times
    you hit it.

    I hate to say I cured something when I haven't even played yet this
    year but last year I just about got rid of my slice by eliminating
    my "flying right elbow". At the top of my back swing my right elbow
    was very high and away from my body. This meant that I was swinging
    in sourt of a straight line rather than around my body. I was also
    going straight after contact rather than breaking my wrists and
    coming around my body on the follow through. Can you imagine if
    you didn't come around your body with a baseball bat? I had some
    troubles adjusting to it and probably will this year too. Since
    I was swinging around more, sometimes I'd catch the ball as I was
    completing the swing rather than with a square club face and the
    ball would rocket off to my left. Not a hook just a ball going in
    the wrong direction. My handicap is 22. That's high so you take
    my opinions lightly. 
    
    Harry
    

    re:237.1
    
    "if you know it's going left aim left and let it come back into
    play"
    
    I agree with this if you don't have time (or want) to correct the
    problem...but if you slice and aim left your only going to make
    the problem appear worse in other words your compensating for an
    error somewhere eles i.e. outside swing/faulty alignment/open clubface
    

    
    	I agree with .1. All the "BIG BOYS" either play a draw (hook)
    	or a fade (slice). If you draw or fade is not of the "BANANA"
    	type play the ball that way, it beets the hell out of not
    	knowing from one shot to the next which way it is going to
    	go. Did you see Mark McCummber (sp) run away with the $200,000+
    	this past weekend in the TPC playing his fade... It all boils
    	down to the fact that you have to find out what works best for
    	"YOU"...!
    
    	Gene (my_thoughts_for_what_they're_worth)

    	What is the relationship with a power fade off the tee box
    	and the construcion of a driver. Does it have to do with the
    	roll and bulge of the club or the low loft of a driver. My
    	fairway woods and irons have the perfect amount of fade but
    	my 1 woods off the tee will slice 40 yards. I currently close
    	the club face and that does the trick, but when I forget I'm
    	playing it up the adjacent fairway.
    
    	Tim
    

    
    	RE: .5
    
    	The bulge (horizontal arc) of wood clubs is desinged to
    	cause a gear effect (ya, the Wilson 1200 GE made it famous)
    	in that when the ball is hit off the toe or the heel of the
    	club it will bring the ball back on target. The amount of
    	bulge is determined by a formula, that I don't know of the
    	top of my head, that relates to where the center of gravity
    	of the club is located. The further back from the face of the
    	club that the center of gravity is the greater the bulge.
    	The gear effect mentioned assumes that the club is square to
    	the target at impact (club face isn't open or closed).
    
    	The roll (virtical arc) does not have any effect on the drawing
    	of fading of the ball...
    
    	The fact that you fade the ball more with your driver "MAY"
    	just be because of the longer shaft...
    
    
    	Hope this helps explain some things for ya...
    	Gene

    Re .1
    
    	My problem is that just about every other time I tee off with
    	the idea of compensating for my slice, I end up hitting the
    	ball as straight as an arrow and off to the left!!
    
    Re .2
    
    	I too have found myself letting my right elbow fly away and
    	this REALLY screws up my shots.
    
    Some other things that I have found to help my slice are:
    
    	o Making sure my feet are firmly planted on by back swing.
    
    	o Placing the ball a little bit further forward in my stance.

    
    	To hit a hook...
    	
    	   o grip the club firmer in your RIGHT hand
    	   o take it back "long and low"
    	   
    	and most important...
    
    	   o try to make your right forearm touch your left
    	     forearm thru impact.  This automatically rolls
    	     your hands which is the key.
    

    	Tom, I agree that's how to hit a hook, but it doesn't help in
    curing the major flaw in a players swing that causes a slice.  That
    is, an outside to in swing path.  It can be caused by a hundred
    diff. things, but it is problem for 95% of all golfers who slice
    the ball.  It happens to be my problem too.  I'm trying to work
    on a few things that should help, but it's difficult when playing
    only once or twice a week.  The things I'm working on are
    
    1)  Keeping my right elbow from flying.  On my downswing, I'm trying
      to make my right elbow actually hit against my belt.
    
    2)  Keeping my knees slightly flexed thru contact.  By raising up,
      or straightening out the legs, you actually push the swing path
      a little out wards away from the body.
    
    3)  Throwing my hands out straight towards the target, instead of
      pulling them towards the left on the follow thru.  Try and let
      natural follow thru take your arms, hands and club to it's normal
      arc, and concentrate on the target.
    
    	I've seen some improvement, but another thing I have to work
    on is my level on concentration.  When I relax to much, and don't
    concentrate on these things, I end up with a slice again.  
    	Anyone who slices, should 1st work on just controling it to
    a fade.  If you can do that, you can play a fade.  Lee Trevino made
    a career out of it.  But a slice will just add to your score, trust
    me I know.
    
                                                       Beak

	OK, we all know that there are about a million ways to hit a
    golf ball wrong.  And, since the best way to correct a problem is
    to first identify what the problem is, what most golfers (especially
    me) need is a way to identify what they are doing wrong.  The following
    analysis comes directly from Pro Dave Heuser, and makes a lot of
    sense:
    
    	There are two basic components that determine the flight of
    a golf ball:  the Swing Path, and the Clubhead Angle (with respect
    to Swing Path) at Impact.  These two components combine to form
    9 ways to hit a golf ball, which look like this:
    
		  2   3 4   5   6 7   8
		   \  |  \  |  /  |  /
		    \ |   \ | /   | /
 		 1___\|    \|/    |/___9
   		      \     |     /
		       \    |    /
		        \   |   /
		         \  |  /
		          \ | /
		           \|/
		            X   Point of impact
		           /|\
		          / | \
		         /  |  \
    
    	Swing Path	Clubhead Angle	Type of flight	Number
    	----------	--------------	--------------	------
			   Closed	Pull-hook	  1
    	Outside-in	   Square	Pull		  2
    			   Open		Pull-slice	  3
    
    			   Closed	Hook (Draw)	  4
    	Straight	   Square	Straight	  5
    			   Open		Slice (Fade)	  6
    
    			   Closed	Push-hook	  7
    	Inside-out	   Square	Push		  8
    			   Open		Push-slice	  9
    
    	Using this chart, it makes it easy to tell what you're doing
    wrong.  For example, I used to hit the ball along path 3, which
    meant that I had an outside-in swing path and an open club face.
    I've since straightened out my swing path, but the clubhead is still
    open at impact, so I'm hitting along path 6.  Ocassionally, I'll
    hit along path 5, so I know that, sometimes at least, I'm squaring
    up the clubhead.
    	By watching the initial flight of the ball (Pull, Straight,
    Push), you can tell what your swing path is, and by watching what
    the ball does in the air (Hook, Straight, Slice), you can tell what
    your clubface is doing at impact.  Once you know these two things,
    you're on your way to correcting them.
    
    It really works!
    -Tom
    

    	Also, take a look at the divot that you leave to give an idea
    of how your swing plane may be. My divot tells me I'd better learn
    to correct my swing soon.
    
    
    				|>
    				|  Pin
    				o

    
    
    
    
    				||     Correct divot
    
    				\\	My divot, but my semi-slice/fade
    					brings me back towards the green.
    
    Keith

    Has anyone had any luck with taming ones swing by using a video
    camera?

    Last summer I hauled out the video camera and recorded my swing
    and my dad's from different angles.  I previously had suffered from
    wicked hooks and lack of distance.  The video quickly pointed out
    my lack of wristcock and one bucket of balls later I was booming
    the ball.  In my case, the swing flaw was obvious but its definitely
    worth a try.  You might be surprised at what you see! 8^)
    
    Bob

    Thanks for the tips earlier, I've noticed that I can now hit my
    4 wood straight most of the time now.  Am I right in assuming that
    the flex of the shaft is not the same as the others ie Driver and
    3 wood when purchased in a set?  Or could it be due to the length
    of the driver is longer than the 4 wood.  Which of these two
    differences would cause a slice?  I'm thinking of buying a set of
    woods now and get rid of the mongrel sticks.  Also choking up on
    the driver doesn't help cure the slice either.  Can woods be purchased
    in a set that have the same shaft stiffness, or does this fall under
    a "Custom Set" catagory?

    
    Woods or irons bought in a set "SHOULD" and do have the same shaft
    stiffness. The length of the driver is the usual cause of problems.
    A custom set could help and it would be good to have the flex of
    your old set checked too...
    
    Gene

    
    Gene is correct sets "SHOULD" be the same flex.  I will mildly disagree
    about the length of the driver causing a slice.  Normally the major
    difference between the 4 wood and the driver is the loft.  You're
    more likely to get away with a mistake (in the swing) with a higher
    lofted club.  Any problem with your swing will be exaggerated with
    the lower loft of a driver.  There are however many ways to 'doctor'
    a club to work within the physical limitations of the player.  Before
    you buy clubs you should talk to a qualified pro/club fitter to
    determine the set up of your clubs.  Good luck with your new clubs
    and I know you'll hit pure!
    
    
    					KO

    
    	Well, I just played one of my worst rounds in a long time last
    night.  It started out that my putting did me in (I haven't 3-putted
    two greens in a row in a long time), but I got that straightened
    out by the fifth hole.  What really killed me was my slice - especially
    with my Driver, 3 wood, and long irons.
    	I went to the driving range before playing, and was hitting
    them fairly straight, and even managed to draw the ball a little
    bit, so I thought I'd be in for a good round.  But once I got to
    the course, that was it.
    	The thing that gets me is that I know exactly what I'm doing
    wrong (or at least I think I do), or at least I think I do.  Since
    the ball starts out straight and then sails to the right, that must
    mean that my club face is open at impact (see note 237.10), and
    that means that I'm bringing my hands through before the clubhead,
    and not releasing my hands to square up the club face.  I'm pretty
    sure this is what's wrong because the pro kept telling me this when
    I took my lessons.
	The thing is, I told myself on every shot not to do this, but
    it didn't matter.  I'm afraid that I've been doing this so long
    (although not as pronounced as last night) that it's become a habit.
    Does anyone have any hints on how to break this habit?  I'd really
    appreciate it.
    
    Thanks,
    -Tom
    

    
    	RE: .17
    
    	Hi Tom,
    
    	If you have played any baseball/softball then try this analogy.
    	Try to hi the ball as if you were trying to pull the ball to
    	left field...
    
    
    	Good luck
    	Gene

    re.18	Funny you mentioned the baseball/softball analogy to
    cure a golf swing problem.  I started golfing 3 years ago.  I'm
    not real good and I've been told that the worst thing that ever
    happened to guy like me who is learning how to play golf is that
    I learned to swing a baseball bat at an early age and that baseball
    bat swing mentality is engrained in my head.  I hold the club to
    tight, I swing to hard, etc. etc.  I'm working on this but let me
    tell you it is real difficult.  I walk up to my ball at the 150
    yd mark and I have this unsatiable desire to use a wedge.  Should
    be using an 8 and without such a full swing that I seem to want
    to use.
    
    tim

    
    RE: .19
    
    Perhaps I wasn't to clear in my baseball swing analogy. I
    didn't mean to imply that you should swing the club like a
    baseball bat, but try the action that is involved when trying
    to pull the ball to left field...
    
    Gene

    	I think I understand what you mean, Gene.  I'll give it a try
    and let you know how it works.
    
    Thanks,
    -Tom

    
    Tom,
    
    The other thing to consider is upper body sway.  With the ball taking
    off straight then slicing, it's a real safe bet that the clubface is
    open.  (Like you said)  One cause of this is that the upper body is
    moving past the ball before impact.  There are a couple of causes
    for this.  Trying to hit the ball too hard, and not getting on the
    right side in the backswing.  Next practice session make sure that
    you transfer your weight on the backswing.  On the down swing make
    sure you keep your head behind the ball.  This wil help with the
    left field thing Gene mentioned.  Although I beleive you have to
    hit behind the runner maybe Gene has a pearl of wisdom for a change.
    :-}
    
    
    					KO 

    I lost all control of my drive a couple of weeks ago and the solution
    I found after 2 lg. buckets of balls at the range was my stance
    was just too wide. I was hitting the ball hook, slice until I brought
    my feet back to within my shoulders, the wide stance also adds to
    the upper body sway..  Jeff

The driver has been my biggest problem this summer.  I hook/pull it most of the
time.  I had my moments where I hit it straight and long.  I finally sought
out help after much frustration.  The club pro has helped me with my swing a
lot.  I have been hitting the driving range, big time.  I also found something
else that made a big difference.... when I take a full swing, I have the driver
behind my head, pointing at the green.  I can't believe how much difference
this has made.  I'm hitting straight and long.  I'm still only about 75% with
the driver, but it's coming along now.  So many things he gave me to think
about!

-dwight