Conference 7.286::golf

    	I'll start it off.  I'm in the process of looking for a new
    set of clubs this winter.  My price range is (up to $375) for the
    entire set.  This set doesn't have to be a complete set, it could
    be one brand for irons and another for woods.  My handicap is a
    6 for nine holes.  I average about 240-250 off the tee and hit a
    7 or 8 iron from 150 yards.  My biggest problem off the tee is a
    little slice and with irons it seems to be accuracy rather than
    dsitance.
    	I'm considering getting perimeter weighted irons, as I've been
    told they increase your accuracy and distance on off-center hits.
    I am also considering getting 2-PW and getting only 2 woods.  Basically
    substituting a 2-iron for a 5-wood.  
    	One question is ir perimeter weighted irons increase accuracy
    and distance on off-center hits, what do they do to sweet spot hits
    as opposed to non-perimeter weighted irons?
    	As far as woods go, I'm pretty sure I'm going to go with metal
    woods, for 2 reasons.  One being durability.  I usually play Top
    Flite balls and they are very damaging to wooden clubs.  Two, most
    metal woods are perimeter or heel-toe weighted and have a lower
    center of gravity so are more accurate and help to get the ball
    in the air much easier.  This would allow me to get a driver with
    a less degree loft than normal and still be able to get the ball
    up easily.  I'm considering Taylor Made with a 7 or 7 1/2 degree
    loft if the price is right.
    	The irons I'm considering are, Titeist Pinnacles, Ram Accubars,
    Toski Swingprints and Wilson 1200lt's.
    	Any help would be appreciated.
    
                                                    Paul W.

     Take a look at Prima irons.  I just got a set recently, and they
     are *beautiful*. 
     
     They are more forgiving than the Tommy Armour (MacGregor) set that
     served my father and then me for 30 years, and they also seem to
     be more consistent in terms of distance.  
     
     I got metal woods a few years ago, and I think they're great for
     hitting off the fairway (mostly because they have a lower center of
     gravity than persimmon woods).  But I still use my old persimmon
     driver -- I'm sure that I get more distance from it than from the
     metal (1200 GE) driver.
     
     --Mr Topaz
     

I'd recommend  Power  Bilt  clubs  any  time.  I play their 'Momentum' irons
myself - they are of the 'classical' type with a muscle back design.  If you
wish  to  play perimeter-weighted irons, you should try the Citation irons -
they are beautiful.

For metal woods, I use Power Bilt 'Pro Sonic' - they have the same shape and
size  as  wooden  clubs,  which  I  find  comforting.  They also have a more
natural feel than the Taylor Made ones.

-- Mr. Litby

>     I average about 240-250 off the tee and hit a
>   7 or 8 iron from 150 yards.  My biggest problem off the tee is a
>    little slice and with irons it seems to be accuracy rather than
>    dsitance.         
    
    If you hit the ball that well then you don't need 'trick' clubs.
    
    If you have 'a little slice' off the tee a 7 1/2 degree loft driver
    will only cause you more problems.  Perhaps a standard 11 or 12
    degree loft with a closed (aka hook) face would be better.
    
    As for perimeter weighted irons, a "sweet" spot hit will be the
    same as a heel or toe shot because there is no sweet spot.  If you
    are having trouble hitting greens I say it was your swing not the
    clubs.  Normally if you play a military game (you hit left,right,left
    then you are probably moving your shoulders (trying to help the
    ball get up).  That also will cause a fade or slice off the tee.
    (In my case it causes a snap hook because of quick hands)
    
    So what did I say?  If you buy a 7 1/2 degree driver, buy a case
    of asprin too.  If you get perimeter weighted irons hitting it on
    the joint will be the same as hitting it on the toe, and it may
    not help in greens in regulation.  But whatever you buy for clubs
    I hope you make the putt.
    
    
    						KO

        Re:< Note 51.4 by STK01::LITBY "-Is it playable? -No, not yet!" >

        .3      My wife is giving me a set of Prima  III irons for X-mas.
        She has hidden them and refuses to let me touch  them before ----
        arrgggg.  The point I wanted to make is that they  cost well over
        what  you indicated you are willing to pay.  I personally believe
        that confidence  and  feel  are  the  most important attribute of
        clubs - actually  the  person holding the clubs.  I suggest going
        to a pro shop with a large collection of clubs and a practice net
        and start checking out all  of  the  clubs.  That's what I did at
        Nevada Bobs and ended up likeing the Primas.
        
                She is also giving me a  full  set  (Driver,  3, 5, 7) of
        graphite headed woods.  Check graphite wood  out  using  the same
        methodology.
        
        Anker
        
                

    Re: .0 You described my game perfectly!! I am also a 12 hdcp (perhaps
    a little longer and a little wilder than you) who decided to invest
    in new sticks. I chose Pings and they have been working great! If
    pros like Bob Tway can use "gimmick" irons, then so can we. Anyway...
    
    You will like the perimeter clubs (I played traditional Walter Hagens
    for years). I can confirm that off-center hits produce good results.
    Sweet spot hits don't go any further - they may give a better
    trajectory and spin perhaps. What you will magically find is that
    your balls have a *much* tighter landing area! You can still hit
    ugly curving shots with Pings/Primas/etc, but on average you will
    turn over a very predictable shot!
    
    One other thing about the irons (and why you should try a bunch
    out) are the different charactoristics. My Pings are easily 3
    swingweights lighter than the Haig's. It could've been the honeymoon
    of new clubs, but my release, balance, and general ball-striking
    improved due to the lighter clubs and stiffer shafts.
    
    Btw, I found Nevada Bob's to be no bargain pricewise. As a matter
    of fact my proshop (Marlboro) was significantly better on price!
    You can probably save yourself 30-50 dollars by casually looking
    around. NB's are handy, but they are not cheap!
    
    
    A 7 1/2 degree driver is vicious! And it will accentuate any side
    spin (since there will not be a lot of backspin). I'd be wary of
    anything less than 10 degrees - playing in the rough can get tedious.
    
    Someone (Re: .n) opined that your shoulders/swing may be the cause
    of your directional problems. This could also be caused by misfitting
    clubs! If the club doesn't sit right, you can easily allign yourself
    off target! It is conceivable that your old clubs made proper
    targetting very difficult for you.
    
    Finally, do not buy anything until you can play with the clubs outside.
    Hitting off a mat into a net for 15 feet is much different than
    hitting off turf to a target for 150-200 yards! I suggest that you
    try different clubs at a real range or course in the spring. That
    will not make Santa very happy, but will increase your chances of
    getting what you really wanted.
    
    	EO

    	Thanks all for your quick replies.  In order, here we go.
    RE .2	Please finish writing you reply.  Who is this anyway?
    
    RE .3	Mr. Topaz, good choice, altough a little out of my price
    	   range.  If you know of somewhere that I can purchase these
    	   clubs, at less than $380.00 for Irons + Woods, please let
           know as I will check them out.
    
    RE .4	Mr. Litby, recently in Golf Digest, they published a
    	   a list of all the most popular clubs by all makers, with
    	   there characteristics and suggested retail price and I did
    	   not find any mention of Power Bilt clubs.  Any information
    	   you can give me on how to attain this information would be
    	   appreciated.
    
    RE .5	Kevin, the figures I stated are only averages.  I'm
    	   not bragging but I do hit the ball "that far"  not as you
    	   put it "that well".  I occasionally can hit drives in the
    	   275-290 range.  As I previously mentioned, distance is not
    	   my downfall but accuracy is.  I know that more practice would
    	   be the simplest and most logical way to improve my game,
    	   but unfortunately I am not able to play as often as I want
    	   to.  So, whatever advantage I can get thru technology, within
    	   my price range, would be of great value to me.
    		As far as the less loft being a detriment to me, I tend
    	   now to hit the ball high and have been told by others that
    	   I certainly could get away with a less degree loft than I
    	   currently use.  And lastly, you are correct in that whatever
    	   clubs I buy, better putting would definitely improve my scoring
    	   right away.  This also comes with practice.  I play about
    	   twice a week and my wife is pregnant so I'll have to fight
    	   just to keep what I have, never mind twice a week and pratice.
    
    RE .6	Do you think your wife could talk to my wife!  What
    	   a simple solution to my golfing problems.  Realisticly, we,
    	   or I, cannot afford these types of clubs.  Graphite is great,
    	   but awful expensive.  Thanks anyway.
    
    RE .7	Sorry, and glad to see someone else has the same problems
    	   I have.  Please tell Kevin it is possible to hit the ball
    	   250 yards and still have a 12 handicap.   Thanks for the
    	   info on center hits, and I'm sure the clubs you mentioned
    	   are nice, but a little out of my price range.  I am going
    	   to get stiff or extra-stiff shafts as I do swing pretty hard
    	   and have snapped 2 shafts in the last couple of years.
    		From what I've done on price checking so far, Fran
    	   Johnson's (nevada bobs) in W. Springfield, is the best I've
    	   seen.  I would also like to play with the clubs first, but
    	   unfortunately the best sales are in the off-season, at least
    	   in New England.
    
    Comments:  Thank you all, and keep the comments coming.  I will
    	     continue to check this note daily.  I will also keep  
     	     you posted on what clubs I decide on.  We need something
    	     to talk about in the off-season.
    
                                                   Paul W.
    

Re: .8

I'm very  surprised Golf Digest didn't mention Power Bilt - I'd have thought
they'd  be  right in there with the pack.  Anyway, not being American myself
I'm  not  all that familiar with the situation in the U.S, but here's what I
know:

Power Bilt  clubs  are  manufactured by Hillerich & Bradsby, in Louisville,
Kentucky  -  the  manufacturers  of the famous 'Louisville Slugger' baseball
bat.  I don't think they are a high-volume manufacturer in the same sense as
Wilson  or  Spalding, but they are very popular with the pros - for instance
my favourite player, Fuzzy Zoeller, plays PowerBilt.

For my  set  of  three  Pro Sonic metal woods and nine Momentum irons I paid
about $450 Canadian in April '85.  The Citation irons would be slightly more
expensive,  but  not  much.   You  should  definitely  give them a try - the
feeling is incredible. Besides, they are great to look at, too.

-- Mr. Litby

    
>        	   not bragging but I do hit the ball "that far"  not as you
>    	   put it "that well".  I occasionally can hit drives in the
>    	   275-290 range.  As I previously mentioned, distance is not
>    	   my downfall but accuracy is. 
 
    
    	Paul,
    	About how far you hit the ball:  Those distances generally mean
    to me that you are hitting the ball close to the sweet spot most
    of the time.  I'm living proof that you can hit the ball like that
    and not have a single # handicap.  In a 2 year period mine went
    from 9 to 13 (oh well maybe next year!)
    
    	Anyway my point was, if your objective is to score better changing
    clubs may not accomplish that.  The philosophy of scoring is to
    hit it to a spot where you can hit again, then do whatever you have
    to to get it in the hole.  (that may be a good topic for the spring)
    I'm not advocating not buying the clubs you want (except the low
    loft driver because you need a pure swing in order to get that club
    in play) but if you can get standard clubs within budget then buying
    them and concentrating on scoring will give you the desired result.
    
    As for the low loft driver.  I have a good friend that use to play
    to a 6.  He has a 7 1/2 or 8 degree driver.  We played about a month
    ago in Mass.  I was hitting my 3 wood off the tee pretty close to
    his driver.  Sure when he hit it on the joint he blew it by me by
    30 yards but at the bar I had 81 and he had 83 (No we are not proud
    of that but neither one of us had ever played the course before.)
    It isn't what you hit, it's how many times you hit it!  At our level
    of play the club is not as important as how you think your way around
    the course.  So if you find a club that feels good in you hands
    buy it, it really doesn't matter that much if the weight distrbution
    is heel, toe or center it's what you do with it that counts.
    
    Now all you Wilson 1200 owners can have at me.... Send in the flames.
    
    
    						KO

    	RE .9	Sorry Per-Olof, Golf Digest does mention Powerbilt clubs.
    	      I was looking for the name Powerbilt and they were listed
    	      under the name H&B, instead.  As you mentioned, they are
    	      rather expensive except for one model of irons, the "Grand
    	      Slam" model.  I'll have to check around the western Mass.
              area to check some prices before I can even consider these
              clubs.
    
    	RE .10	Kevin, I realize I'm hitting a lot of shots on or around
    	      the sweet spot, but the ones I don't hit on the sweet
              spot are the ones that cause great trouble when you hit
    	      the ball far.  For example,  if you hit the ball 20 degrees
    	      off-line and you only hit the ball 200-215 yards, you
    	      still might be in the fairway or at worst, the rough.
    	      but if you hit the ball 250 yards, you end up in the woods
    	      or "OB" or in a position where you cannot go for the green.
    	      You are right, in that playing the course better would
    	      improve the results.  Like playing a 3-wood or even a
    	      long iron off the tee instead of the driver, which I often
    	      do, but the fact is, I need new clubs as my old ones are
    	      shot, and I might as well get something that could improve
    	      my off center hits.  
    		As far as the 7 or 7 1/2 degree loft on the driver,
    	      with metal woods, you can get the ball much higher a lot
    	      easier than with most wooded woods because of the lower
    	      weight distribution.  You maybe right, and I might even
    	      consider a 9 degree loft, but we'll see what the pro at
    	      the store says.  Thanks anyway.
    
                                                   Paul W.

		If you can control a "little" slice with your woods and
hit irons as you say, I wouldn't worry about getting a club to improve 
accuracy or distance. I would instead, work on increasing an "automatic"
swing pattern.  If your slice is "little", your ball will not run as
far, but will hopefully remain in the fairway.  With a lie in the short
grass, the next shot should be easier to hit.  	If you do miss the green, 
a good short game (wedge and putter) will keep your score down.



		To me, your game sounds very good.  I suggest that during 
this non-playable golf weather, go to a "fitting center" (Bob Toski has at 
least one) where the computer can calculate swing speed, club head speed, 
distance, and direction using different club types.  Last year, Toski's 
center in Middleton, Mass. offered 1/2 hour sessions free for the above use.  
A 1/2 hour isn't really long enough, so you might inquire about costs in 
order to test many clubs.  But, as mentioned earlier, I wouldn't buy any 
club until you tried it on real grass to get a "true" test.



		Try out "all typesof clubs" and select a set that "mentally"
feel comfortable.  Then watch out.

						Gary Wilson

    RE: .11
    
    Paul,
    	I'd like to hear what a pro has to say about a low lofted driver.
    If/when you get one I'd be interested in your comments.  I have
    a friend that has a 7 1/2 degree loft driver and he thinks it 's
    great.  When I played with him awhile back it didn't seem to me
    that it made any difference.  When he hit it he wasn't that much
    beyond my 3 wood but when he missed it he needed a map and a compass
    to find the green.  When the match was over his wallet was a little
    lighter!
    
    	When you do get new clubs you'll need to try them out (RE: topic
    52).  If you get Mr Topaz/Litby to go as a playing partner, I'll
    tote the hockies for you if you take a collection to pay my way!!!!!!
    
    
    
    						KO

    	Re .12 + .13
    
    		Yesterday, I spent some time at Fran Johnsons, the local
    golf shop where I'm going to buy my clubs.  I hit a bunch of balls
    into the practice net with quite a few different drivers.  I tried
    Taylor Made drivers with 7 1/2, 9 and 11 1/2 degree lofts, a Dunlop
    Diamond Max driver, 11 degree loft and a Titleist Pinnacle driver
    which we didn't know the exact loft but guessed it at 11 degrees.
    	One thing for sure is I liked and seemed to control the higher
    lofted clubs better.  I can admit when I'm wrong, and you were right
    Kevin, the salesmen said the same thing.  It's much harder to control
    the lower lofted club.
    	Also, they let me take a swing on the swing analasys computer
    and it told me quite a lot.  It shows weight distribution at address,
    top of swing and impact for both right and left feet.  It shows
    club speed on back swing and impact and gives cubhead velocity at
    impact.  It also prints swing paths for takeaway and downswing.
    Overall, it showed that my weight distribution was pretty good,
    a little to much on my right foot at the top of my swing, but very
    good shift of weight thru the ball at impact.  My club head velocity
    was 94 mph at impact and this, I was told was good also.  Oh, another
    thing it tells you is how your club face is at impact.  Mine was
    2% open which caused a slice.  The pro there told me it was because
    I was starting my down swing with my arms, instead of my legs and
    hips causing me to have a little of a outside to inward swing plane
    on my down swing.  This was evident in the swing paths the computer
    showed afterwards.
    	There are still quite a few different sets I'm considering,
    but I will go with a higher lofted driver than I previosly stated.
    I am going to go back in a week or 2 and take 3 swings on the computer
    to see better what my problems are.  The salesmen told me I'm welcome
    to come and use the practice net with any of the clubs I choose
    so I think I'll take him up on it.
    
                                                  Paul W.

    I am the guy who started writing .2, and I have no idea why it says
    it is still being written, as I finished it some time ago.  What
    causes this ?  Can the moderator or anyone else fix it for me, or
    do I have to delete and reenter ?
    
    Peter

re .15:

I deleted the empty note .2 for you. You will have to re-enter whatever
you originally intended to put there - the note was just registered as
having 0 lines.

-- Mr Litby

    Peter just mis-clubbed!! Happens to the rest of us all the time...
    
    	Eric

RE:
    < Note 51.14 by ARMORY::WELLSPEAK >
                             -< Computer Analasys >-
   
    	I heard about this but have never seen it in action.  I'd be
    interested in the results.  Also I'd be interested in if they make
    any recommendations as to what type of clubs you should buy based
    on what the machine and the pro have to say about your swing.
    
    
    						KO
    

    I've had a 7 1/2 degree driver for the last two seasons and I wouldn't
    trade it for anything. I must admit that when I do miss a shot (and
    last year that was more than I wanted to) then I will get into trouble
    more often than I did before. 
    
    What you really have to do with this club is decide when you can't
    use it. Basicly you have to decide when the course designer wants
    you to only hit a drive 240. Some holes are meant to penalize those
    with long drives that aren't absolutely accurate. By learning a
    little self restraint I can score very well with the low lofted
    driver (ask my partners in the end of season tournament what it
    meant to our score).
    
    Concerning the clubs. If you want to make your own or are interested in
    Ping look alikes there are 3 companies that provide all parts to do the
    job. At 140-160 (thats a 2-SW) for the Irons I think it is a minimal
    investment especially when you consider that you get all the extras
    the way you want them (shaft stiffness, grip type, etc.) If you
    want the names of the companies I think I listed them in a previous
    note.
    
    Besides can you think of a better way to spend the winter than putting
    together your clubs?
    
    Roger
     

    Paul,
    
         What I tried to say in .2 is:
    
    I have a 9.5 deg loft Taylor Made Tour Burner Plus metal driver.
    I have the Pinnacle irons and woods.
    I have a 1, 2 and SW of Ping replicas.
    
    I would be willing to let you try any of these if you like, provided
    that you are not too far away.  Perhaps we could play some golf
    in the spring ?
    
    Peter
               

    	Peter, thanks, I appreciate it and will probably be out that
    way a couple of times this spring, but also will probably have my
    new clubs by then.  I will take you up on playing around though.
    I'll try to contact you before I come out there.  I currently work
    in Springfield, Mass., but go out to the training center in Bedford
    2 or 3 times a year.  I also attend meetings in Maynard once in
    a while, so I'll let you know.
    	You could let me know how you like your 9 1/2 % driver though.
    Do you have as much control as you had with your previous driver?
    Do you get considerably more distance now?  Also, how do you like
    the Pinnacle Irons?  They are one of the clubs I'm still considering.
    
    	Kevin, I've been told by the salesman at Fran Johnsons that
    the swing analasys does help to select proper clubs for a player
    but is just an aide in picking out certain things.  For instance,
    I was told after my swing that I should use stiff shafts because
    of how hard I swing.  This will only work if when you try the computer,
    you take your normal swing and not try and impress any witnesses
    by trying to kill it.  Some people normally have a slower or softer
    swing and should use medium shafts.  I'll let you know what happens
    the next time I use it.
    
                                            Paul W.

    
    Ok Paul, its now the end of Feb., and I 'cant stand it no more'
    
    
                  WHAT DID YOU GET??
    
                                   ...mike (ROOKIE)

    	After a lot of shopping around and hitting into practice nets
    and informational sessions, I ended up getting, God I still can't
    believe it, after all the bad things I said about them, Spauldings.
    I purchased a set of XL4's.  2-PW and 1,3 and 5 metal woods.  The
    interesting thing is the loft on the woods.  The driver has a 10
    degree loft, only one available in XL4's, the 3-wood, a 14 degree
    loft, and the 5-wood, a 19 degree loft.  Normal, would be 11 1/2
    for the driver, 17 for the 3, and 21 for the 5-wood.  The reason
    is the center of gravity is lower on metal woods and allows you
    to get the ball up easier and faster.  So it's almost like having
    a driver, a 2 1/2 wood, and a 4 wood.  Thus the reason for getting
    a 2 iron.  I got the entire set, on sale for $299.99.  It was well
    within my price range, and the irons and woods are perimeter weighted
    and should definitely improve my off center hits.  I can't wait
    to try them out on the course, although I hit them a lot into nets.
    	Other clubs that were nice, but I ended up not getting were,
    Dunlop Diamond Max, Wilson 1200GE's, Titliest Pinnacles and Ram
    Accubars.  Understand, I was limited, due to my budget, of clubs
    in the 300 - 375 range, so didn't waste my time with the more expensive
    sets.  It was difficult, with all the different manufacturers these
    days, and all the new terminology and technology used today.  In
    the future, I will let you know how I like them, and if my game
    has improved by using these clubs.
                                                Paul, (Beak)

    	I forgot to mention, all have stiff shafts.  My last set had
    medium shafts, except the 3-wood and 4 iron, which I had reshafted
    because they snapped.  This was recomended by the pro at Nevada
    Bob's after determining my swing speed on the Computer aswing 
    analysis machine.  They should also improve my accuracy a little
    due to to much flexing of the medium shafts.
    
                                           Beak

    Anyone out there have Dunlop Max 357 clubs & metal woods?  If you
    do, how do you like them?  Any idea what they retail for?
    
    Thanks, Pam

    I got a set for Fathers Day. 3-pw and 1,3,5 metal woods. They were
    bought at New England Golf in Marlboro and I believe the set was
    $249.
    
    I really like them. My drives are longer and straighter than with
    real "wood" woods. I hit the ball harder because I feel like the
    ball will go straight without hooks or slices. It did take me a
    few rounds to get use to them. At first all my iron shots felt
    soft. I received them on a thursday and played 54 holes that weekend.
    I noticed that I needed to hit 2 clubs bigger than normal to reach
    the green !!! But once I got used to them I actually went down 1 club 
    from my old set.

    
    
    Pasco
    

    Thanks for the info Pasco.  You know I had a feeling I might be
    getting ripped off.  I did a favor for this guy that I didn't really
    know.  I was in a commercial for his Ski Shop.  He gave me a $20.
    turtle neck which probably cost him $5.  So since I am in the market
    for a set of clubs and his sister is a famous golf pro I figured
    he may be able to sell me a set of clubs at cost.  Sounds fair right?
    So he shows me a set of Dunlop Max 357 irons and metal woods.  They
    look like a great set.  He says that he sells them for $550. but
    would sell them to me for $350.  I told him that I saw a set of
    Dunlop Max ?? at Leachmere for $299.  I'm not sure if they were
    357's or not.  He said that they couldn't be.  I 
    am going to stop in at Lechmere on the way home to check out the
    price.  They do look like super clubs but I just had a feeling that
    I wasn't getting a super deal.   Who knows, maybe Lechmere gets
    them at a much lower cost than he does because they buy in quantity.
    It looks like that's the only set he sells.
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    Pam

    	In the back of Golf Digest where all the ads are, Nevada Bobs
    or Las Vegas Discount Golf runs Max 357's for $109 for 1-3-5 woods
    and I think the 3-PW run $149 or maybe even less. I know the Woods
    price is correct, thinking irons is close.
    	If you are referring to said Ski/Golf/whatever shop located
    in Westford on Rte 110??, I had thought I was going to get a good
    deal on ski equip once, until I compared with another place, where
    I hadn't had an "in" and found that Bradl***   oops! was mucho higher.
    Beware of them.
    	BTW, 2 friends of mine have Max 357 and like them very much.
    In fact I use his drivers rather than mine when we play.
    
    					Good luck,	Keith

    Thanks Keith.
    
    Bra**%$'s is the place.  Good guess.
    
    Pam

    Yes Lechmere's has had them on sale for $279 this summer.
    And the Driver is definately the best club in my bag since I
    got this set.....
    
    Ps. New England Golf will give 5-10% off for cash purchases on
    non sale items.....
    
    Pasco
    

    
    I bought a set of Dunlop Max 357's this spring up at New England
    Golf supply in Salem HN.  So far I'm happy with them.  BTW I think
    I paid $289 for them at the time.
    

    Pasco
    
    I stopped in at Lechmere and they don't have the Max 357.  They
    have the Max 757 for $299. which I would think would go on sale
    for $279 or so.  Which set do you have, 757 or 357.  I can see
    the 357 is a more expensive set.  The 357's are weighted and the
    757 are not (or at least there's no round weight under the head.
    Which set does New England Golf carry and sell for the $249?
    757 or 357?   I called Nevada Bobs in Woburn and they do not
    carry the set.  They said that it is a commercial set and they
    only carry professional clubs.  They said for a comparable set 
    there you would pay around $410.
    
    Pam

    I paid $249 from their Fathers day sale. That was in June ! They
    are definately 357's...... 
    
    As far as Nevada Bob's...... I stopped there one day before My
    new clubs. They told me that unless I spent $350 I would not get
    a decent set. I was looking at the Wilson 1200LE ( I think) . They
    were going from $249 - $279 at Lechemer's and Braddlee's , etc.
    Nevada Bob's gave me the same story about commercial "junk" vrs.
    their brands of "professional" clubs. My wife was buying them for
    me as a Father's Day gift. She was so put out by Nevada Bob's that
    she won't even go there to buy me a package of tee's.
    
    
    Pasco
    

    Well I guess Bradlees is way overpriced.  I just saw in the Ski
    Notes File that a particular pair of bindings are $30.00 - $50.00
    higher than the same bindings at other ski shops.  He'll have to
    come down to at least $290 before I buy them there.
    
    Thanks for all of the info.
    
    Pam

    I was at SPAG'S yesterday and they are carrying MAX 357's for $299.
    This is for the set (1,3,5 W...3-pw ). 
    Remember "No bags at Spags"..... and Cash only
    
    Pasco
    

    For those of you who are still searching for a new set of irons, may I
    suggest looking at "TORRID" from a company called Tour Merit.  I was
    looking for a new set before going on vacation to Myrtle Beach.  Well
    my brother in law just bought a set of the above mentioned clubs at
    Neveda Bobs before going to Myrtle Beach.  Well to make a long story
    short I played with them and I could not believe them.  I had tried all
    the top brands,yes even ping and I liked these better.  Got back from
    Myrtle Beach on Saturday evening and by one PM on Sunday I had a set of
    Torrids and the price was right too.  Have been playing with them about
    two weeks and love them.

  I have a buddy who is interested in COBRA irons.  Anyone have any experience
  with, or information about these clubs.

  The blade looks exaclty like the Hogan Edge blade except that I think it
  is cast and not forged.

  Thanks
  Mark

    I was shopping around for a new set of ladies irons.  I probably would like 
    to use this set for a long time.  Rick at the New England golf supply
    recommended "Square Two" at $249.50.  Does anyone know of this brand?
    
    Thanks,
    Eunhwa
    

    
    I bought the squares a few months ago and have had a great
    response from them...It also helps that when I bought them
    The guy told me that there was a 60 day trial period in which
    case if for any reason I wasn't satisfied I could take them 
    back and trade them for the amount I paid towards another set
    of clubs! not bad I said. So I've played quite a bit and went
    from an average of 54 to 45...I can't complain

                    <<< USER$1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]GOLF.NOTE;1 >>>
                      -< The TRUE Head Game... ;-)...:-{ >-
================================================================================
Note 1075.0                     Square Two Clubs                      No replies
MCIS5::FRANCOLINI                                     9 lines  11-SEP-1990 13:21
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I just played my first round of golf, and am now interested in
    purchasing some new clubs.  Does anyone have any info on "Square
    Two" clubs ?  The golf shop in Marlboro has some that sells for
    $369.95 - 3 metal woods and 8 irons.  Are these recommended for
    beginners ?  Also Lechmere has some Dunlops (3/8) with the bag
    and club covers and umbrella for $200.   Any advice would be
    appreciated.
    
    Another hacker.  (But just for a while, I hope).

    Hi,
    
    	I just bought "Square Two" irons, 3 thru sand wedge, for $253 plus
    	tax at NE golf supply in Marlboro.  I have 60 days to try them out
    	and if I don't like it then I can return it for full credit.  
    
    	So far, I like them a lot.  I am getting 10 to 20 yards more than
    	my old clubs (allied pro-tradition) and best of all is that I can 
    	hit the long irons.  I've played with them 3 times and no complaints 
    	yet.
    
    	Eunhwa
    

     If you can hit the long irons, then you are DEFINITELY married to
    Walta ! The long irons seem to give most gals trouble, so if you can
    hit 'em now, you're well on your way.
    
    --Jack

    I have been looking at UNIQUE and SQUARE 2. Price is about the same,
    S2's being a little more. Anybody hits these, any opinions??
    
    Thanks
    Rich
    
    PS. I've heard af a place in Salem NH thats gives DEC empl's a break??
        anyone info on this??

    The "break" is at New England Golf Supply in Salem..
    
    BUT, I've never received any break...
    
    The breaks are:
    
    	1) No 5% sales tax.
    
    	2) If you spend $200 all at once, you get in a 5% discount club.
    	   You must spend $200 all at once...You can not accumulate to
    	   make it to $200...
    
    I asked about the "Digital" discount...The answer was, "huh?"
    
    
    Jim
    

    I've played the S2's all summer and have had good luck with them, only
    problem adapting to was the driver, a 9 degree loft, really difficult
    for me. Irons are great though...
    
    oh and the deal I was given @ the golf shop was, if I wasn't satisfied
    with the clubs after 60 days, bring them back to them and they will 
    credit me the price I payed towards any other set...
    
    needless to say....
    
    J.D.

    Hi Folks
    
    I'm entering this note on behalf of a friend. Has anyone heard of a
    golf club called a "Dinky". From what I'm told, its primary use is for
    getting out of the rough (forgive the terminology - I'm not a golfer)
    
    If anyone has any info on this or can point me in the direction of a
    source for one (in the Mass. area) I would be gratefull. Also any
    indicators on cost.
    
    Rgds........Gerry
     

    
    Gerry,
    
    Sounds like a knock off of a club called a "Ginty". These clubs have
    a ridge running along the bottom that helps cut through thick rough.
    
    Joe

    Joe
    
    I checked back with the guy who was asking and yes a ginty is what he
    was talking about. (He told me he was using some weird sound
    association stuff to remember the name......)
    
    So, the $64 question.....are these clubs still available. I will be in
    the US next week for 1 week so I dont have a lot of time to shop
    around. Any pointers on sources and prices would be appreciated.
    
    Rgds............Gerry

    
    Gerry,
    
    I don't know where you are, but you should be able to find them at
    any larger dealer. Nevada Bob's comes to mind. I'll probably be bashed
    for this one but, I have found that most of these clubs are for ladies.
    I have seen more and more for men though. Call around, or maybe post
    a note looking for one.
    
    Good luck
    
    Joe

    Joe
    
    I am in Ireland and as far as I can tell they are not available here.
    As I will be in Worcester next week I thought I would try to get one
    then. If you have somewhere in mind could you give me an exacta
    address.
    
    Thanks...........gerry

    
    I recently bought a set of Quadram irons and woods from Nevada Bob's. 
    Being mostly ignorant about which names I was supposed to respect, my
    decision was based on club feel and budget.
    
    Because I'm a pretty typical hacker, I swing harder than I should and
    the salesperson recommended the stiff shafts on the woods.  I'm trying
    to swing slower now, and I'm still happy as long as the stiffer shafts
    give me more control over the clubhead at impact (to heck with
    distance, just lemme get it down the middle of the fairway).
    
    The Quadram irons (and woods) are all peripheral-weighted; the
    salesperson said the sweet spot was about three finger widths wide (I'd
    believe closer to 2 finger widths, which is still excellent IMO).
    
    When asked, the salesman said that they were less expensive than some
    other clubs (e.g. the Tommy Armour clubs) because Quadram didn't have
    an established name yet, but that they were excellent clubs
    nonetheless.
    
    So my question to you all is: are there any objective tests done on
    clubs (e.g. by consumer-reports-like organizations) that are public
    information?  To the extent that people have heard of Quadram clubs,
    and know how they play, how do they compare relative to the 'brand
    names' like Tommy Armour, Ping, Wilson, ...?
    
    /jim    (who hopes you'll say 'you probably did the right thing')
    

    Jim,
      I bought a set of Sounder Triad irons from Nevada Bob's several years
    ago (before I started making my own clubs).  I had to laugh when I read
    your description of their sales pitch....same one they gave me about
    Sounder.  I have to say that I'm not sorry for buying the Sounders.
    They had Apollo Matchflex shafts and they helped my game.  I paid a
    fair price for them and I got a fair price when I sold them.
      Looking back at that time, I remember going to several golf stores
    and trying out clubs and talking to salemen.  Almost all of them
    "recommended" stiff shafts to me.  I know, now, that regular shafts
    are appropriate for me and my swing has improved since I bought the
    Sounder irons (which had 'firm' shafts, between stiff and regular).
    So, why do these guys 'recommend' stiff?  Because that's what they
    have in inventory?  Because they think that's what I want to hear?
      Anyhow, don't stew over your new clubs.  Get out there and hack
    away with the rest of us.  And let me share the words of my golf
    mentor:  "There are no strokes for sale in the pro shop".

	PL

    Ping makes EVERYTHING stiff, so salesman may be safe in recommending it
    for other clubs as well. Ping must know what they're doing, but I can't
    say I agree with them (or that I like their shaft...).
    
    __Jack

    
    re: .53
    
        Nevada Bob's took the stiff shafted woods back and allowed me to
    exchange them for regular shafts.  *that's* the way to keep your
    customers! 
    
    	/jim  

    
    
    Any comments on Wilson Staff Progressives (stiff shaft)?  
    I bought these for my boyfriend, and would like to get some
    feedback from anyone who has them or knows about them.  Yes
    it's after the fact, but we are going back to the store to
    be sure that is the set he should keep (and make sure they
    are the correct length, etc).
    
    Thanks!
    

I'm currently using a set of Square Two irons which I got from New England
Golf supply in Salem, NH.  The salesperson there recommended them to me and
I've been very happy with them.  I've been using a mongrel set of woods I picked
up at a yard sale and can't hit them very well, so I figure what the heck, it
must be the clubs :-)   So, time for new woods.

I was thinking of getting the Square Two metal woods since I've been happy with
the irons.  I'd appreciate any feedback from anybody who has used these woods.

-Buddy

    I bought a set of Square Two, woods and irons a couple years ago.
    In my experience they are well matched, when I'm having trouble with
    any one club, I'm having trouble with them all.  And of course,
    when I'm hitting them well, I'm hitting them all well.
    
    If you can hit the long irons, you'll be able to hit the woods.
    
    WCIII

Thanks for the reply WCIII,

I bought the metal woods this weekend, after also trying out the Tommy Aarons
which were on sale at Nevada Bob's for $129.  After hitting both 3 woods into
the net there, I decided on the S2s for $189.  The driver has a graphite shaft,
while the 3 & 5's have steel.  Also the heads are much bigger than the older
S2 woods.  Everyone seems to be going oversize.

I took the clubs right to the driving range afterwoods (like who wouldn't?)
and really learned to like these clubs.  After about 10 swings, I was hitting
a few long, straight drives with the driver.  What I really like about this
club is that even my mis-hits were going straight.  I don't think I hooked
or sliced once, even though I have a tendency to hook the ball.

Much better than my old wooden garage sale specials I was using.  Can't wait
to use them on a course, soon.

-Buddy