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Conference 7.286::golf

Title:Welcome to the Golf Notes Conference!
Notice:FOR SALE notes in Note 69 please! Intros in note 863 or 61.
Moderator:FUNYET::ANDERSON
Created:Tue Feb 15 1994
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2129
Total number of notes:21499

17.0. "Cast or what..." by OASS::RSST (MONTY O'KELLEY) Thu Jun 19 1986 19:47

    	
    	Thanks for all of the helpful information on the Ping clubs.
    Takingsome of your suggestions I went to a local Golf Discount house
    here in Atlanta and now my decision is even more cloudy.
    
    	The clubs that I have narrowed my selection down to are the
    Pings, Wilson 1200GE's, and the new MacGregor CG1800's. The CG1800's
    clubs are really nice and I am leaning towards them. But now another
    question to my fellow avid DEC golfer's.
    
    	The only set of clubs I have ever used are the ones that my
    Dad bought me when I was on the High School golf team at some Pawn
    shop for $15, so you can imagine what my clubs look like. But we
    all have to start somewhere, right ? I shoot pretty consistently
    in the 80 to 85 range and have a drive about 260 to 280 yards, from
    the 150 yard marker, dependant on the conditions, I hit at the highest
    a 7 iron. So, that is some information on my swing, now that sales
    person is asking me do I want "cast irons" or "forged irons", "stiff
    shafts" or "medium shafts".
    
    	Hellllllllllllllllllllllppppppppppppppppppppppp ! Can someone
    give me a good simple explaination of what this guy is talking about
    I didn't want to seem that dumb in front of the sales guy, I had
    rather look dumb in front of my friends, therefore this note to
    you guys. any help would be greatly appreciated.
    
    	Thanks !
    
    	Monty O'Kelley   ._/
    
    	DECLNE::OKELLEY
    	Atlanta
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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17.2It really doesn't matterFREMEN::SPT_BRINKLEYThu Jun 19 1986 23:0912
    It's interesting to note that one of the golf magazines recently
    (read last two years) blindfolded several top pros (I think Raymond
    Floyd was one) and gave them an assortment of cast and forged clubs.
    The object was to see if they could determine what type of club
    they were hitting. The results showed that even the top pros could
    tell.
    
    The moral of the story is, if you like it and it feels good buy
    it. 
    
    Roger
    
17.3Forged irons more fragileSTK01::LITBYPer-Olof Litby, CSC StockholmMon Jun 23 1986 11:5013
	Forged clubheads are softer, thus the ball stays on the clubface
	for  a  slightly longer time when you hit the ball - which gives
	added  control  to  your shot. This is particularly effective if
	you use wound balls, they are softer than two-piece ones. 

	One disadvantage  of  forged  irons is that, as they are forged,
	the  cellular  structure of the metal becomes deformed. This may
	cause internal stress in the metal, which becomes more fragile.
	This  means  that  forged  irons  are  generally  more  prone to
	breaking  -  you  should  be careful about hitting stones, rocks
	etc.

	/P-O
17.4A vote to castWALLAC::LAMOUREIncognitoThu Jun 26 1986 21:0027
	My understanding of Cast vs Forged and shaft stiffness: 
    
    Cast: This club is molded and is primarily heal and toe weighted.
    This means that if one doesn't hit the 'sweet spot' the major effect
    is a loss of distance. Cast is more forgiving for the average player.
    Very few pro's use cast club heads. 
    
    Forged: This club is beat into shape and is primarily center weighted.
    This means if one doesn't hit the 'sweet spot' there are major effects
    in distance and accuracy. Most pro's use center weighted clubs due
    to the fact they hit the 'sweet spot' most of the time and this
    type of weighted club allows them to move the ball better; draw
    or fade. 
    
    Reccomedation: For the 80's and above players, use heal and toe
    weighted clubs, cast, until your game gets to the low 70's level and
    then you may want to convert to center weighted or forged clubs. 
    
    Shaft stiffness: The more flex and or whip the club head has the
    more the hands and hips are ahead of the ball causing slicing. One
    can correct slicing by improving their swing but the easiest fix
    is to get stiffer shafts initially and work on the swing latter.
    You may lose a little distance at first with the stiffer shafts
    but practice with them will return you to your normal distances
    again. 
    
    General statements 
17.5Short StoryUSWAV3::FAGERBERGSat Jul 19 1986 00:2717
             -< stiffness of shaft >-
    
        I haven't been playing that long, about six years (on and off)
    and shoot in the lower 80's and occaisionally in the high 70's.
    My older brothers have been playing since they were kids.  I was
    advised by the pro (I took lessons from day one) to use stiff shafts.
    My brother and I are the same height, weight, etc. and he has a
    nice smooth swing (he pisses me off). He carries an 8 handicap,
    except in money tournaments, (you know the type..."money player").
    He uses regular shaft stiffness.  I bought him a set of Staffs like
    mine, me stiff shaft, him regular.  Now, my point.  The other day
    on the 8th, par 3, over water, tees all the way back, he hit a 4
    iron to the center of the green and then wanted to try my 4 iron.
    It wound up in the middle of the 9th fairway, directly behind the
    8th green.  It wasn't a fluke, either because he eventually used
    my 6 iron to hit the front of the green. Could it have been the
    difference between shafts?????
17.6Stiff/regular shaftsSTK01::LITBYPer-Olof Litby, CSC Stockholm/SwedenSat Jul 19 1986 01:4715
	(re: .5)
	
	Nice to  see  that we Swedes are infiltrating DEC in the U.S. as
	well... How did you end up there?

	I use stiff shafts because I swing fairly hard at the ball - the
	stiffer  shafts  give  me better control. With regular shafts, I
	find that I slice the ball - the clubhead whips forward and hits
	the ball on an out-to-in path. Result: slice.

	The reason your brother hit further with the stiff shaft was problbly
        because  he  can  generate more club speed than you're able to -
	which figures, because he's a lower-handicap player and thus can
	hit  the  ball  harder  because of a more consistent swing. Does
	that make sense?
17.7 USWAV3::FAGERBERGTue Jul 22 1986 21:0015
    My father came over here at age 7 in the 1920's, along with a few
    other families.  It seems they were at our house for parties every
    week, but like all good memories, they tend to be exaggerated. My
    father died young, 45, but his brother Nils (Harry, as I know him)
    is now 68 and still shoots in the low 80's. Harry's son is the only
    low hndicapper I've seen who hits his drive with his right hand
    on the shaft. His arms are huge, with big wrists.  If when I die
    I'd hate to come back as his golf ball.
    
    Actually the point I wanted to make about my brother hitting the
    stiff shaft versus his regular shafted clubs was that he was longer
    and straighter (less right to left) with the stiff shafts. 
    
    Any chance you'll be in this area in the near future?  You have
    a standing invitation to play at Sharon C.C. when you're here.
17.8"AS THE WORM TURNED IN THE EARLY 1900'S"OURVAX::GLASSWed Dec 21 1988 11:32125
Hi,
I found this to be a most interesting and thought provoking issue from the turn
of the century wherein American ingenuity took a foreign product and turned it
into a high volume enterprise that has still sustained itself for nearly 100
years.

Have the Japanese done the same thing with electronics and automobiles or will
a "Haskell" arise in each of those industries to turn our fortunes around?

Only time will tell and by the way, there are no baseballs or softballs or
gloves now made in the United States but the games survive as has golf in
Scotland!
Tom


            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
            ++++++           THE HASKELL BALL MACHINE         ++++++            
            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

            LAST PUBLICATION- GOLF COLLECTORS' SOCIETY BULLETIN #96

            FIRST PUBLISHED - COUNTRY LIFE IN AMERICA of APRIL, 1905


  Golf now ranks as one of the most popular sports in America, and the growth
in interest since its general introduction in 1895 or 1896 is remarkable. There
are now between fourten and fifteen hundred recognized golf courses in this
country, and the players are beyond number. It is natural that the game should
have gained so rapidly, for in almost every part of the land admirable golf
country can be found and the American temperament lends itself to the develop-
ment of the game. It is a curious fact, however, that the greatest improvement
in the game since its establishment centuries ago in Scotland, occurred not long
after it became a national sport in America.
  American invention has supplied new impetus to golf on both sides of the 
ocean, for the almost universal use of the Haskell ball has set an entirely new
standard in all countries where the game is played, and has even made necessary
a change in links that have been fought over for many decades by famous golfers.
  Mr. Walter Travis, writing about his successful "invasion" of England and the
winning of the world's most important golf match, says: "When I was over last,
three years ago, I was looked upon there as a long driver, though no one had 
particularly charged me with that on this side. Since then the Haskell ball has
made its appearance, and the Britishers generally seem to have devoted  them-
selves to seeing how far they could out-drive the other fellow." It is hardly
necessary to say that Mr. Travis won the championship with the Haskell ball,
though his opponents also played with the great American ball. In fact, the
Haskell ball was the first American production to overcome British prejudice; 
it was the first successful "invasion"; Travis's all-conquering trip was the
second. At one time this American invention sold on the ancient course of St.
Andrews, perhaps the most famous in the world, at a pound sterling (five 
dollars) each, so great was the demand. It may be safely said that the Haskell
ball has won all the important championships in recent years.
  For years _ the only golf ball [then] in use was made of solid gutta percha
(the sap of a tree which grows in the East Indies) .
  Softened by heat, the semielastic tough material was pressed into the famil-
iar shape. One day in the spring of 1898 two enthusiastic American golfers -
Mr. Colburn Haskell and Mr. B. G. Work - conceived of the idea of making a golf
ball with a soft rubber center, one of the inventors happily being also an
expert in the manufacturing of rubber.
  The first ball wound laboriously by hand by the inventors was teed up by the
professional at the Cleveland Golf Club and driven over a bunker that had never
been carried before. This test proved its value at once and the manufacture was
begun immediately.
  Since no machines existed to do the work, the first product was wound by hand,
the total output being three balls a day; the utmost accomplishment of an 
expert.
  The makers of the Haskell ball, the B.F. Goodrich Company of Akron, Ohio after
two years experimenting, produced a marvelous machine that does in three min-
utes the work that formerly required the entire effort of a deft worker through
the long hours of a working day, and the daily output has been increased from
three balls to eighteen thousand.
  A description of the construction of the Haskell ball will explain its succ-
ess. A center or core of hard rubber about the size of a small marble is wound
with seven hundred feet of tightly stretched pure Para rubber thread. A center
is thus obtained of unequaled elasticity and sufficient hardness, the stretching
of the rubber strands securing the latter quality; since the rubber could be
easily cut by the impact of the golf club, a cover of gutta percha about an 
eight of an inch thick is put on in such a way that it is seamless. The heavy
pressure of brass dies adds the necessary knobs and reduces the ball to the
proper size and roundness. A long series of tests with a specially invented
driving machine, whereby a predetermined stroke could be delivered to the ball,
determined exactly what size and weight produced the best result, and the Has-
kell must come up to this standard. Each ball is tested three times.: first by
the workman who runs the winding machine, then by experts after the winding is
completed by means of steel guages, for size; then by means of delicate scales
when the gutta precha and the core it is to cover are made to balance a complete
ball. Eachcenter is wrapped with the gutta percha that is eventually to cover
that particular center.
  Besides these tests, cores are taken at random from each day's output and
tested in a press to guage their elasticity, and finally, completed balls are
tried by the driving machine from time to time and their efficiency proved. A
putting machine has also been devised to prove the Haskell's superiority in this
respect as well. By means of these tests the Haskell balls are always kept up to
standard.
  Though the winding of the rubber centers is accomplished by machine, the Has-
kell ball is essentially a hand product, for not only is the ball fashioned by
hands, but the materials add a long list of manual processes and personal ins-
pections. The gutta percha covers are put on by hand and the three coats of
vegetable paint are rubbed in by the palms of boys, a process that adds per-
manence to the finish. It is to the handwork and the expensive mateials that
the increased cost of the ball is due.
  About five years ago; the total daily output of Haskell golf balls by the
B. F. Goodrich Company was but three. Then as the output increased the demand
grew in a much greater proportion, and Haskell balls sold at as high a pre-
mium as 1,00 per cent. The output has increased from three to eighteen thou-
sand a day.
  The magnitude of this production can be better understood when it is real-
ized that more than 238 miles of stretched rubber cord is wound on a day's out-
put of Haskell balls.
  The materials from which Haskell balls are made comes from opposite sides of
the globe, the gutta percha being sap drawn from trees in the East Indies, while
the rubber comes from the headwaters of the Amazon River. So the materials gat-
hered from far away places are made into golf balls in Akron, O. , and sent 
forth again to every quarter of the globe, to play their part in the pleasure
and healthful sport of the people of every nationality.
  The Haskell ball is the best obtainable for amateur and professional, begin-
ner and finsihed golfer; it is quite as durable as the solid ball and adds
greatly to the pleasure and interest of the game. It has been tested beyond per-
adventure and has never been found wanting. A gain of twenty to twenty-five 
yards over the solid ball in the carry of a drive may be depended upon.
  The player who uses the Haskell ball has an immense advantage over an oppon-
ent who plays the solid ball.
  It is hoped that ... the text will explain its superiority.
          - B. F. Goodrich Company
            Akron, O.