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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

2778.0. "Sound Blaster - IBM PC SGU/Sampler" by BSS::STPALY::MOLLER (Fix it before it breaks) Tue Dec 03 1991 15:20

	I saw no note on the Sound Blaster SGU card & thought since
	I'll be using one for my music composition and recordings...

	I bought a Soundblaster over the weekend to put into my IBM
	PC. It's working very well. It appears to have a variation
	for the FB01 built into it (except it can do 11 voices instead
	of just 8) - 4 operator FM synth. The thing that I was most 
	interested in was the onboard D/A and A/D converters to allow
	for digital sampling and playback. The input stage only allows
	you to digitize an 8 bit resolution signal (which is OK for somethings,
	but nothing exceptional, and fairly noisy on playback unless
	you sample at around 12K hz) - This is the same resolution that
	the original Ensoniq Mirage used, but they had a much better
	audio front end and playback system. The part that I'm quite
	interested in is the 16 bit D/A converter that is onboard. This
	implies that 12 bit thru 16 bit samples from other synth libraries
	might be usable from this board. There is a MIDI port on this
	board also (but you need to add a few things to use it) - Sequencers
	such as Cakewalk and Voyetra, and other software, like Band-In-A-Box
	work with the Soundblaster.

	It was originally created to allow IBM PC users access to much
	better sounds on thier interactive games (it does this very well -
	It has an on board 4 watt sterio amplifier, so you only need
	to add speakers).

	The Soundblaster Pro is basically the same thing, except sterio,
	in that there are 2 seperate 11 (11 note polyphonic) voice synths
	and 2 seperate A/D & D/A sections. It also comes with more
	software 

	The Sound Blaster claims CD quality output from thier 16 bit D/A
	converter. Has anybody been able to convert other samples to
	this format for playback?

	I found some nice Turbo C / Turbo C++ rountines from the IBMPC
	shareware notes file that allow me to manipulate the data from
	the digitized signal (but only as 8 bit data).

	Voyetra has added the ability to manipulate this data (it looks
	an awful lot like the Turtle Beach 56K product) from Windows V 3.0
	on the IBM PC in a recent software package & also on their Multi-
	Media programming tools kit (I've ordered this already). Voyetra
	also has an FM 4 OP patch editor for the Sound Blaster.

	If there is some way to expand on they resolution of the samples,
	this could be quite a useful SGU.

	I originally wanted to be able to sample vocal harmonies and have
	them play back during a sequence (and this is still a goal) 
	along with the other MIDI data going to my other gear.

							Jens
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2778.1This isn't hard to controlBSS::STPALY::MOLLERFix it before it breaksTue Dec 10 1991 17:2821
	Well, I've made some more progress with the A/D converter (using
	Turbo C++), and it looks like it would be fairly easy to create
	a synthesizer using 8 bit/12 bit/16 bit stored waveforms. I've
	written a simple waveform creation/playback module that lets me
	define the points in a single cycle of 256 points (+128/-128), look
	at it visually, then play it back. The goal here is to look at
	what I capture and play sampling/loop points games with it. Once
	I get a better interface (right now you can enter a few parameters,
	and then play 100 occurances of the waveform, but nothing else),
	I'll make this available thru MIDILIB.

	I'm still working on increasing the resolution an initial 8
	bit sample by trying to characterize the sound by knowing more
	about the components that make up the sound (a bit of Fourier
	analysis is at hand - I'll have to see if I can find some examples
	of implementing this in C - I don't want to have to write and
	debug any more code than I have to), and then try to do curve fitting
	and filtering (like most active filters do) to try to simulate
	better resoltution.

								Jens
2778.2Way cool!PENUTS::HNELSONHoyt 275-3407 C/RDB/SQL/X/MotifTue Dec 10 1991 18:201
    
2778.316 bit samples sound quite good!BSS::STPALY::MOLLERFix it before it breaksThu Dec 19 1991 18:1931
	I got a copy of the Voyetra VMP routines (lets me access just about
	anything on the Sound Blaster, as well a V-22/V24 & MPU-401 cards),
	and they have routines that let me output digital audio in 8 or
	16 bit resolutions (along with playing any MIDI type 1 file directly
	from a DOS prompt - should be handy for creating a MIDI juke box
	function for live performance).

	The software is for Multi-Media applications & provides SIMPTE 
	syncing. It works with either Microsoft C or Turbo C++ (Borland).

	It's quite a deal at $24.95 (disks & documentation).  It can control
	the standard Sound Blaster (mono with sterio outs) or the Sound 
	Blaster Pro (sterio - 2 8 bit A/D's, 2 16 Bit D/A's, and 2 sets
	of FM synth chips - 11 voices per channel - 22 voice polyphony).

	Note: There is a new sound card that is very similar, but has 12
	       bit A/D's on it (the rest stays pretty much the same) - the 
	       VMP software will work with that one also.

	I'll start adding some examples to the IBMPC MIDILIB when I get
	a bit further along with development of some simple utilities
	(You'll need at least a 286 based system to run my code - this is
	my restriction, not thiers - the memory model I'm using won't work
	with 8088's or 8086's - sorry).

	If you have any specific thoughts about what you might like as a
	simple utility, let me know (via Email - CSC32::MOLLER), I may
	be working on something similar & might give you a copy of what
	I'm writing for Alpha Testing.

								Jens
2778.4PAULUS::BAUERRichard - ISE L10N Center FrankfurtFri Dec 20 1991 13:2314
Hi Jens !

Are you sure this it is 4-op FM ? In an article in the German Keyboards they
state it's a 2-op FM synth. Consequently they rate the quality of the sounds as
low. 

Also, I haven't fully understood how the sampling capabilities work ? Could you
elaborate on that a bit more ?

Does anybody know, if there's a comparable board for the ATARI too ?

	thanks and best regards

		Richard
2778.5More infoBSS::STPALY::MOLLERFix it before it breaksMon Dec 23 1991 15:3441
>Are you sure this it is 4-op FM ? In an article in the German Keyboards they
>state it's a 2-op FM synth. Consequently they rate the quality of the sounds as
>low. 

	You may be right. The information that comes with the Soundblaster
is sketchy at best, however, I've seen statements along the same lines
in magazine articles (and some that say it's 4-op FM also). I find the sounds
to be quite useful in a musical context - At least comparable to the sounds
I've been able to get out of my Yamaha FB01.

	I'm in the process of writing a MIDI file editor (Pulling things
like PATCH CHANGE and MIDI channel assignments, as well as any user defined
TRACK NAME's and the user defined SEQUENCE NAME - all user defined info
can be blank, so, I may not find a lot here in all cases). The goal is
quick tweeking of MIDI meta data (MIDI channels used, TEMPO, and program change
info in particular) without having to load everything into a sequencer - If
you get MIDI files from random sources, or you share them, this would allow
someone to adapt sequences to fit thier gear (and what ever voices or 
MIDI channel assignments they have). I'd also like to be able to re-map
drum notes assignments from one setup to another. This is all messier than
it sounds, as the data in the file is not all MIDI binary events, there
is a lot of text intermixed. Interpreting the MIDI standards is where I'm
having the most fun. All code is being written using TURBO C++. When this
is running, I'll make an IBMPC version available. I'm not doing anything
with the WINDOWS V 3.0 environment at this time - Voyetra's drivers can
work under windows DLL's so it's a long term goal, But I have my hands full
at the moment with just MS-DOS stuff.

	Currently, I've got a small collection of MIDI files to read thru,
so I may not be testing things very fully. I've found that the Mac adds
some pointers to the front of the file that I need to skip over, but the
rest is mostly MIDI events & timing info. I'm using the Sound Blaster to
test the results. I want to see if I can use some unassigned structures (that
will be ignored by other sequencers) to link TEXT (verses for a song) into
the playback loop, as well as sampled voices (for background harmonies).

	My duo has been giging a lot these last 2 weeks, so I'm not making as
much progress as I would like to, but January is usually a quiet month for
my band (except for when we are up at the Ski Resorts).

							Jens
2778.6Software for the soundblasterBSS::STPALY::MOLLERFix it before it breaksWed Feb 05 1992 15:0629
	My first bunch of software is available on MIDILIB. It's at:

		MIDI::A$:[MIDILIB.TOOLS.IBM.SHVMID10]*.*

	NOTE: This system is not available during the day Eastern Time
	      (try after 7:00 pm and before 7:00 am).

	Currently this software will run with many MIDI cards (including
	the sound blaster). What's in the current release:

		G_SYSEX.EXE	-  Gets a SYSEX dump (up to 128K bytes)
				   as long as the dump starts with F0
				   (START SYSEX) and ends with F7 (END
				   SYSEX). For example, MMT-8 SYSEX dumps
				   can be as big as 80,000 bytes (even
				   tho they only have 64k on board memory).

		S_SYSEX.EXE	-  Sends any SYSEX dump that starts with
				   F0 and ends with F7. Size of the dump
				   file is unimportant. It sends the file
				   as it's reading it.

		M_SCOPE.EXE	-  Monitor's and tries to translate MIDI
				   data (also can save to a file) from the
				   MIDI Port.

	This is all FREEWARE for MSDOS.

								Jens
2778.7Where to purchase SOUNDBLASTER-ProMACNAS::SALLISONTue Feb 11 1992 10:556
    Can anyone provide a quick reference for purchasing SOUNDBLASTER Pro at
    the right price in MA?
    
    I will be visiting the Acton area soon and want to pick up a few items.
    
    ...Sean
2778.8since we're talking about SBsEZ2GET::STEWARTthe leper with the most fingersTue Feb 11 1992 14:074
    
    What's the current price for the Soundblaster Pro, anyway?  Is it
    compatible with the Multi-Media spec?
    
2778.9Good productBSS::STPALY::MOLLERFix it before it breaksTue Feb 11 1992 20:4031
>	What's the current price for the Soundblaster Pro, anyway?  

	This months computer shopper show it to be around $190.00 US
	The regular Sound Blaster (Mono version) is going for around
	$115.00. Given the option, I'd go with the Pro, but, I already
	have the mono version.

	If you are curious at how this works, you address the default
	sounds (it mimics an MT-32) as a MIDI port. So, If you don't have
	the MIDI option (ie, enable the interrupts), the FM chips are
	MIDI PORT #2. If you do enable the MIDI port, your normal MIDI
	signals come in as PORT #1, and you can either send to output
	PORT # 1, or the FM chips in the Sound blaster. If you have a
	MIDI card (MPU401 or V22/24) the sound blaster's port moves up
	to the first available MIDI port past the one(s) on the MIDI
	card. For example, since the V22 has 2 seperate MIDI in's and outs's,
	it occupies MIDI ports # 1 and #2, with the Sound Blaster's FM
	chips being port #3. For the Sound Blaster Pro along with the
	V22 board, it becomes ports #3 and #4. This mechanisum lets you
	layer all sorts of things together, and gives you the capability
	of expanding on the 16 channel limitation of MIDI (which has
	caused me headaches for years). With a V22 card, you get 32 MIDI
	channels. With the Sound Blaster (or Pro), you get at 1 real
	MIDI I/O port , and at least 1 port that ther FM chips get to use.

>	Is it compatible with the Multi-Media spec?

	Yes.
    
								Jens

2778.10Pricey little sucker, huh?EZ2GET::STEWARTthe leper with the most fingersWed Feb 12 1992 15:005
    
    $190???  Sounds like the way to go is the Creative Labs Multimedia
    Upgrade Kit that includes the Soundblaster Pro, as well as a Panasonic
    CD-ROM, the Multimedia extensions for Windows, and some CDs for $575...
    
2778.11Try PC ZoneBOSACT::KNOCHLife is Uncertain; Eat Dessert First!Fri Feb 14 1992 16:1011
PC Zone, Redmond WA has Soundblaster PRO for $188 and $6 next day 
delivery shipping. If you call late in the evening, shipping is free. 
I'll post their phone number after I go home tonight.

Also, SoundBlaster PRO comes with Voyetra Sequencer Plus Pro (they 
call it SPPro) which looks like it's a repackaged Voyetra Sequencer 
Plus - Jr. Also comes with upgrade package for more functional 
versions of Voyetra's software with $69 off list. Oh, yes, includes 6 
foot midi cable.

Lee
2778.12PC Zone - 800/258-2088BOSACT::KNOCHLife is Uncertain; Eat Dessert First!Mon Feb 17 1992 18:599
The PC Zone
800/258-2088
open 24 hrs
$3/shipping per order
Orders placed by 9PM ET for items in stock ship that day for 
overnight delivery.
Orders placed after 9PM ET shipping is free.

Lee