Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Ok, here we go, first question:
    
    I'm trying to automate my setup more and more by using the features
    of the sequencer. So I tried using the program changes to select the
    various programs on my SGUs and other MIDI equipment. However, I used
    the PC definitions on the track info and/or part info. Unfortunately it
    doesn't send the program change before I stop the sequencer again or if
    I define the left locator and use KP1 (goto to left locator). What am I
    doing wrong ? Or is it a bug in V1 which I'm still using.
    
    If anybody has a good idea how to send program changes for the Yamaha
    V50 Performances (the multi-timbral programs) I would also be glad to
    hear. So far I worked around it by using a Program Change Table which
    allows to relate a program change to Performances. But that makes me
    dependant to have the right program change table loaded....
    
    Any takers ?
    
    	Richard

    Yamaha generally has very good sys-ex documentation in their owner's
    manuals. I'd investigate loading all the performance data via sys-ex.
    
    Edd

    Hi Edd !
    
    That's the next step I will take. However, from reading the manual I
    think it's a bit more complicated, that's why I wanted to take the
    smaller bite first. How do you do that with your TX81Z ?
    
    	best regards
    
    		Richard

    One alternative to writing the sys-ex to do what you want is to *dump*
    the state of the V50 into the sequencer as a sys-ex file and reload
    this on startup.  Saves you scrawling out the hex by hand.
    
    							Brian

    Brian's advise is good as a start, but if you have performances you
    want to save, they'd better be part of the bulk dump coming in or
    you'll write over them.
    
    Despite the drudgery, I've found writing sysex for the TZ to be the
    only way to get exactly, and ONLY, what I want loaded. I always save
    the last performance as an "expendable" slot, and load any sys-ex into
    there.
    
    If you've got a manual and can bounce between hex and decimal fairly
    easily writing the long sysex stream will get what you want,
    
    Edd

Hi Brian, Edd !

Well, it seems that this is the only way. I tried to avoid sending the SysEx
due to time constraints, but maybe it isn't that bad. However, I think it would
be still worthwile to try to reduce the amount of SysEx by sending just the
performance and the single voices used in that performance. How do you organize
these ? (I know how to dump it and how to store). Again reserving 8 (in case of
the V50) or 16 (in the case of the TG55) voices ?

I may be able to write explicit SysEx messages, but I wasn't aware that this
was possible within Cubase. Any hints where to look ? (Come on your Cubase
experts....as I seem to remember that Brian and Edd don't have that, but still
try to help !!!)

I also wanted to ask again the other part of my original note, what is wrong
with the program change associated with the track ? It still doesn't get
executed. I tried a few more things, but I only get the PC done when I use
positioning commands for locaters.

	thanks and best regards

		Richard

Hello cubasers and other specialists...

A few weeks ago I got a VERY IMPRESSIVE demo of Cubase on an ATARI-ST.

I read a lot about MIDI, but haven't really DONE anything untill now...
just waiting for the right stuff, enough knowlegde and $$$ to become available!
The only thing I have now, is a ROLAND HP-2700 piano (with MIDI connections),
and I would like to:

   - Have access to a lot of good sounds
   - Be able to edit these sounds
   - Work with an excellent software for sequencing, notation, scoring, ....
   - Work in a USERFRIENDLY and NOT MESSY environment (namely my living room,
	so.... the smaller everything is, the better, says my wife!)

The things I more or less set my mind on to accomplish this dream are:

   - DECpc 333 portable (has an half size expansion slot for MPU401!)
	(I need the PC for other things beside music... has to be IBM compat!)
   - MPU401 (or compatible)
   - ROLAND U-220 or Sound Canvas or Sound Module CM-64 or CM-32P (PCM, not LA)
   - Cubase ???

Before I go ahead, I have 4 important questions about Cubase

   1) Is the soft available for IBM/PC MS-DOS ?
   2) Can I make good and FULL use of it in combination with the listed
      hardware?
   3) How much $$$ will the soft pull out of my wallet?
   4) What should I go for:
	- U-220		(may a bit too messy, being a 19" rack!)
	- Sound Canvas  (half 19" rack -- not messy)
	- CM-64
	- CM-32P
   5) Is this a good idea at all, and if not, does anyone have a better one?


Thanks in advance for ANY kind of advice --  I really need it...
Dirk

Hi Dirk,
I can answer some of your quastions :-)

>   1) Is the soft available for IBM/PC MS-DOS ?

   Cubase is available on ATARI-ST or Macintosh. not abailable 
   on IBM-PC/MS-DOS... :-(

   2) Can I make good and FULL use of it in combination with the listed
      hardware?

   Cubase's MIDI contloller(named 'Dynamic MIDI manager',not but not simulously
   'Apple MIDI Manager')is full programmable,so you can construct custom MIDI 
   Editor/Contoroller for any synthesizers/keyboards/other MIDI instruments.
   listed equipments combination's very good, I think. :-)
   But if you want use Cubase,You need ATARI-ST or Mac.ATARI-ST better,I think.
   Becouse 'Cubase on Mac' is not latest Version.

   3) How much $$$ will the soft pull out of my wallet?

   I don't know... so I'm live in Japan,Instruments' price is so different from
   another countories.(Foriegn computer ,synths are *VERY* expensive)

   4) What should I go for:
	- U-220		(may a bit too messy, being a 19" rack!)
	- Sound Canvas  (half 19" rack -- not messy)
	- CM-64
	- CM-32P

   I think U-220's best.Sound Canvas has many sounds,but not expandable and
   sound's cheep. CM-64,CM-32P are same. They are entry class machine.U-220
   is Middle class machine.U-220's Best buy. Of course, It's most expansive
   in four modules. :-)

   5) Is this a good idea at all, and if not, does anyone have a better one?

   E-mu Proteus is bery nice sound module. I feel its sound is better than
   U-220's. (but not expandable) Proteus's so expensive in Japan(Retail 
   200,000 yen...about $1500!)How about in your country?

Hidemi

re .8,.9

Hi Hidemi,
thanks for your contribution to my (and other's) 'knowlegde expansion'...

Pity that Cubase isn't available on MS-DOS, because anyhow that's what I
will be using as a PC ... Atari or Mac can't compete, although they seem
UNDOUBDETLY more interesting 'musicwise'; invested too much in MS-DOS untill
now and one PC will have to do -- remember the wife and the living room! :-)

Do you (or anyone else) know about a soft on MS-DOS that can seriously
(and I mean SERIOUSLY folks, not REMOTELY) compete with Cubase?

> I think U-220's best.Sound Canvas has many sounds,but not expandable and
> sound's cheep. CM-64,CM-32P are same.

As far as I know, CM-64 does accept sound ROM cards (both LA and PCM -- the
same PCM cards that fit in U-220) -- CM-32P only accepts PCM cards...

> E-mu Proteus is very nice sound module...

Haven't looked at Proteus yet -- have been focussing on Roland stuff...
So don't know what the module goes in Belgium.


Thanks for your inputs
any other input is welcome...

Dirk

    
    Hi everbody !
    I am a proud user of CUBASE 2.0 ! ;-)
    I am using a ATARI MEGA ST 2 and a KORG M1.
    CUBASE ? Yeah ! The best what money can buy ! :-)
    
    That's all i want to say ! ;-)
    
    Markus "Mac" Goetz
    

Regarding program change:

You can define program change at the track level. This however causes all the
parts within that track to get the same program change command. I don't
use this method.

You can define the program change on a part (part info). This allows you to have
a track switch between different instruments. 

You can also define program changes as events using the Grid events editor. This
allows you to be precise as to when the program change command is sent.

CUBASE will "chase" events when you move the song position cursor - in whatever
direction (back to the left locator, forward to the right locator or manually
to any position). CUBASE looks at all  non-note events from the beginning of
the peice up to that point and sends them out.

This chase function can be enable/disabled. Look at the menues (can't remember
its name) for "Chase Events" and make sure its flagged on.

All this works since V1.0 thorugh V2.0.

Zayed

Here's a tip regarding set up:

On a new arrangement page, have a part for every instrument in your set up. So
when you load this arrangement you see a number of tracks and one small 
(say 1 bar) part for each.

These parts can be used to "initialize" your setup by either using the Part Info
to define Program Change values or create program change events inside the part.
These parts contain no note values.

Save this arrangement on the CUBASE disk as DEF.ARR. Now every time you boot
up CUBASE you'll get your standard arrangment that configures your instruments
in one go.

Zayed

Note, I also think that the Mac version is a few versions behind the ST
version.

Chad

Hi Zayed !

Good info. Now I understand why I had program changes in ALL parts :-{

I think I'll take that advice to store the setup in DEF.ARR.

However, how do you deal with multi-timbral modules ?

In addition, I was a bit confused when I had the PC on the first part on the 1.
bar of the song. Then they only got executed if I used postioning with the
locators (due to chase events). Now I had moved these parts to the back 2 bars
and suddenly they got executed even if I started from bar 1 with the normal
"run" command. I think I have to try a few things more on that.

	thanks and best regards

		Richard

P.S.: There are decent MS-DOS Emulators (soft and hard) available on the ATARI,
so it may still be possible to go this root too.

>However, how do you deal with multi-timbral modules ?

I just use a seperate track for each instrument and set each track to a
different midi channel. 

Zayed

    Hi Zayed (and others) !
    
    Now I understand what you mean......
    
    After extensive tests I found out how to solve this problem. First of
    all as a hint for all those that are new to this problem a small
    terminology definition. For my V50 there is a so-called "basic receive
    channel". This channel is used in "single mode" to receive everything
    (note ons, programm changes whatever). In "multi (timbral) mode" it
    only defines the channel for sysex and program changes. The note ons
    etc. are still received on the channels defined for the multi-timbral
    program acording to it's definition.
    
    So in order to automate the setup with Cubase the following steps
    should be taken.
    
    - each MIDI instrument should get a different "basic receive channel"
    or however they are called. Effects processors etc. would call this
    just the receive channel.
    
    - make CUBASE Satellite an accessory by renaming it to .ACC
    
    - load CUBASE
    
    - get into Satellite 
    
    - "push" the SETUP button so that you get the default list of
    instruments
    
    - edit this list so that 
    
    	- all your instruments are defined
    	- the channel matches the (basic receive) channel of the instrument
    	- the type (?) matches that of your sound format
    	
    		Satellite allows either Steinberg SYNTHworks format or
    		free sysex. So I would assume in most of the cases you
    		would have free sysex in that field
    	
    	- store it (on the disk where CUBASE is)
    	- select the Universal Dump from the Utitlites menu
    	- push the receive button so that the dump utility just waits
    	and receives until you press push the exit
    	- use the panel of your MIDI device to initiate the dump
    	dump the system setup, the program change tables and the voices 
    	and performances you are using. In the case of voices and
    	performances try to limit it by copying it into one bank or if your
    	instrument allows just to dump single voices or performances. It
    	pays off when loading later on. On exit you get asked for a file
    	name. I used the following convention: instr (3 char) + indicator
    	for song eg. V50LONER (.BNK). So now you have a song specific,
    	instrument specific dump file. Repeat that for all of your devices.
    	Use the same disk where your sequence is stored.
    
    	- select the "Configuration edit" option from the Utilities menu,
    	switch through the list of instruments and click on the file field
    	and select the appropriate dump file (eg. V50LONER.BNK) and put in
    	a program change to select the right voice/performance for that
    	instrument for this song. Now you have associated the dump files
    	for all of your instruments of your setup.
    
    	- save it (eg. as LONER.CNF on the disk where your sequence is
    	stored)
    
    	- use the "Configuration Total Recall" option from the Utilities	
    	menu to check out whether the rigth dumps and program changes go
    	to the right instruments. Especially the program changes need
    	attention as the number schemes differ sometimes (starting with 0 
    	or 1) and the rigth number for the multi-timbral program need to be
    	found. The use of program change tables maybe considered if
    	necessary.
    	
    	- if everything works as expected use the "Join Configuration" from
    	the Utilities menu (assuming that you have already loaded the
    	sequence into CUBASE). The file selection pops up, select the
    	appropriate configuration file eg. LONER.CNF.
    
    	- store the sequence as a SONG (it wouldn't work with Arrangements)
    
    Now you're all set. Whenever you load this song again, you will be
    asked if the configuration should be loaded too and if yes, everything
    will be setup correctly by MIDI-magic within a few seconds.
    
    But, don't change your MIDI channels anymore or you also have to change
    your configuration again.
    
    For V1 users, you can use Satellite from V2 (doesn't use the key), but the
    Join Configuration doesn't work. In this case just select Satellite and
    use the Configuration Total Recall. So one more step, but still a lot
    more comfortable.
    
    So thanks to all that have given input to this !!!
    
    	so back to dumping, configuring, saving and playing music again soon
    		
    		Richard

    
    
    	Is there an easy way to enter volume fades (controller #7) other
    than using the grid edit. Notator has a group of faders that can be
    assigned to say , be a volume control or pan control which makes
    life easy.  I'm using an older version of Cubase so that may be my
    problem.
    
    Thanks
    
    SM
    

    
    
    It's not the answer you were expecting, but what about an Anatek pocket
    pedal?  Or a JL Cooper fader box?  Or a Roland CF-10 Digital Fader?
    Enter your curve in real time?
    
    
    

Hi SM (???) !

In V1.5 Steinberg introduced the Midimanager, which has those faders. 
What you could do is the following:

	- assign another controller that is available on your synth (eg.
	data entry slider or modulation) to the one of interest thru
	the MIDI processor of Cubase

	- record this controller on a separate track

	- go into the logical editor and convert the controller number you
	recorded (I think it is in VAL2) to 7.

If you need some help for the logical editor just ask....it takes some time
until you get used to it, but once you know it you have an extremely powerful
tool.

	Richard

From V1.5 you could use the Midi Manager to define the type of faders that
you described. 

You would then use an empty track to store all the movements of that fader.
Lots of fun watching the faders "dance" when you play back.

All this in addition to what Richard mentioned (.19) on being able to control
the fader movements not by using the mouse but also by an external controller
on your synth.

Zayed

    
    I have a little Problem with the Drum-Editor :
    
    How can i change the volume (normal is 70) of a part to 127 ?
    
    I want to change the volume in one Step..
    
    Mac_Goetz
    

    Hi "Mac_Goetz" !
    
    That should be fairly easy. Just double click on the part and a box
    appears where can specify the volume (and some other controllers,
    programm changes, transpose etc.). I think you can also get it with
    CTRL/I. Note that this box has three buttons on the top where you can
    select PART, TRACK or SONG (?). If you select TRACK then eg. your
    specified volume will be written in all the info boxes of the parts of
    that track. Not that it is a problem, it's just important to know, as
    you may wonder about certain behaviours. It least I had the problem
    once.
    
    
    But since we are at it. What it is the best method for writing down the
    lyrics in Cubase and how can I get it displayed during the actual
    reply? Has anyone done that ?
    
    	best regards
    
    		Richard

    Is ther *ANY* way to install Cubase 1.0 onto the harddisk with TOS
    1.2 AND GET IT WORKING ???
    
    Alternatively: 
    is there a possibility to install TOS 1.0 onto the harddisk and
    then choose which version you want to boot ?
    
    
    Please make me happy and say yes...and how...
    
    
    Uli

    
    Hi Uli !
    
    I think, you mean TOS 1.1 ! TOS 1.2 is the BLITTER-TOS and with this
    TOS CUBASE 1.0 works very fine.
    
    Greetings from Essen..
    
    See you in September..
    
    Markus_"Mac_Goetz"
    

Re: changing volume of a part

Richard covered PART and TRACK (is there really a SONG button ? I don't recall
seeing this).

Another method would be to use the Logical Edit where you can either change
the whole track or just one drum voice.

Incidentally, you can get to the INFO window with CTRL-TAB, less stress/strech
to the hand than doing CTRL-I.

Zayed

Hi Uli !

Seems that we'd better create a CUBASE Notesfile over here in Germany, eh ?

Since I have no harddisk myself I can't be sure, but a collegue of mine has one
and has V1.0 and V2.0. He can select which one to use relatively easy. However,
I have no idea about the TOS version he has. As far as I remember it is
possible to load the TOS from the disk too. In addition, he has a switch to
toggle a bank of PROMs for two different TOS versions.

So there must be a way. He is on vacation this week, but is back on monday.

	best regards

		Richard

    Hi!
    Has there been any info on the new version 2.1 supporting postscript
    to print scores. I'm very pleased with Cubase with the main exception
    that i have to print the scores on the Atari. I think that Notator has the
    facility of transferring the score lists to Postscript format.
    
    It would be very nice to transfer the files to vax and get double sided
    prints on a LPS-20.
    
    
    		Jack 

Jaak,

Do you have more info on V2.1 ? What other features ? 

I'd like to see a Midi Compressor where you set an upper limit and have all
notes with a velocity higher than this be brought down to a value you specify.

The "Compress" setting in the part info seems to reduce ALL notes by 25%, 75%
... etc. which effects the quiet parts as well as the odd loud note. Going in
to the Editor and looking for offending note, editing its velocity is
cumbersome.

Better still, I'd love to see a "Customize" option where you can set something
up with the Logical Edit, give it a nsme and be able to invoke it whenever you
want. A bit like adding favorite commands to LSE.

Dream time is now over ....
Zayed

	Sorry i haven't heard anything about the next Atari version.
	Though i heard that the next release on Macintosh was supposed
	to contain a VERY advanced score printing feature, what ever that
	might indicate.


		Jack

    Got the 2.01 version on last friday. It has a couple of bugfixes, the
    most obvious one is that it is now possible to turn cycle on off
    whilst playing without cubase "hanging". It also runs without
    workarounds on the MEGA STE. (unfortunately i don't have one!! ;-) )
    
    		Jack

    
    Is 2.01 the latest version or is it 2.1 ?
    
    Mac_Goetz_with_2.0
    

    I think that the latest is 2.01, which is an updated version for 
    compatibility with the new MEGA STE. 2.1 is on it's way, probably later
    this autumn.
    
    
    Jack

    
    Hi !
    I have a little problem with "Automatic Backup".
    I set the Counter to 30 min and i've had no problems with it.
    But since 1 week a message displays and says : " Disk full ! "
    (b.t.w. i save the backup on a:/ ). The funny thing is, on the
    disk are only BACKUP.ALL (450.000 Bytes) and if i look (from Cubase !)
    at the directory of the disk no file were displayed !
    What's wrong ?!?
    Is it now a problem with my disk-drive or is it probably a virus ?
    
    Mac_Goetz_owner_of_Cubase_2.0

I sometimes get the Disk FUll message and have found it to be correct.

How are you "looking at the directory" from Cubase ? I usually use "Delete"
because that's the only one that will list ALL the files/folders.
You may have some ".ARR"  files that are taking up space.

Use the Atari Desktop Info option to find out how much space is available/used.

By the way, I got V2.01 (which fixes some synchronization problems - not that
I'd noticed them) which now allows you to change left/right locaters while in
Cycle-mode without causing the sequencer to skip a beat.

Zayed

    
    Well, in the desktop info option is enought space left and the way i 
    look at the directory is " <cntrl> O (open files), 2 and change
    *.ARR in *.* !
    Sometimes there is the file BACKUP.ALL in the directory
    but sometimes not ! :-(
    
    Markus_Mac_Goetz
    
    b.t.w  Could you copy me the new Version 2.01 ?
                           

Markus, the way I understand it when CUBASE tries to save BACKUP.ALL and finds
not enough space, it deletes BACKUP.ALL. Which means you'll always find some
space on the disk. In fact, if, after a DISK FULL message, you try to save
the SONG (.ALL) you should hit the same problem. 

How about storing the song to another disk, see how much space it took up 
and compare it to how much space is left. 

Zayed

    
    Zayed, but there is only ONE file one the disk: BACKUP.ALL
    During the backup the old BACKUP.ALL will be deleted and after that
    the new BACKUP.ALL will be stored on disk.
    I mean, there is only "ONE" BACKUP.ALL on the disk and the disk
    has 900k space left.
    
    Mac_Goetz
    

OK, I understand what you're saying. When I get a disk full message I usually
have quite a few files plus BACKUP.ALL.

You may want to call the Steinberg hotline in the UK and try them for an
explanation. Their UK number is (742.684.543) and the lines are open between
1 pm and 5pm UK time.

Zayed

    
    OK, Zayed, thank you.
    
    Some replys before i ask you to copy the new Cubase 2.01 Version.
    May i send you 2 disks ?
    
    Mac_Goetz_owner_of_a_hard_key :-)
    

Another tip: you can stop CUBASE playback during Auto-Backup by pressing
CTRL-SHIFT and Keypad (0). This I find especially usefull when I want to
stop hearing the same loop of music but can't  (using the documented
keys)  because the program is tied up saving the current song.

Zayed

    
    Problem with 2.01:
    
    OK, the new version is good, but..
    
    If you are recording (for example: left pointer at 1, right pointer at 5) 
    and you leave this space, cubase STOP with recording and continuous
    with PLAY.
    
    Mac_Goetz_don't_like_this_NEW_feature
    

I thought it always worked that way. You can only record between locaters, not
outside of them.

Zayed

Hi Mac, hi Zayed !

I also think it was always like that, but you can direct what happens after the
right locator by the punch out button. There maybe also something in the
Functions or Options pull down named Recording, which I seem to recall have
similar parameters.

	Richard

    
    Yeah ! Yesterday i pressed the "punch out" button off and (one wonder ;-))
    i could record during i leave the right locator ! :-)
    
    Mac_Goetz_happy_:-)
    

    
    How is it possible, to print th whole Screen with ALT-HELP ?
    
    I've try it, but the print-out was in medium-resolution ! :-(
    
    Mac_Goetz
    

    Does anyone know of any "known problems" running early (eg V1) versions of
    cubase on an Atari 1040 STE?? I know someone who finds his machine
    hangs after loading cubase, although the initial screen is displayed OK
    he then gets no mouse or keyboard response. The program loads and runs
    fine on my 520 stfm!!
    
    Regards,
    
    Tony I

Hi Tony !

Cubase V1 does not run on the STE !! I think the reason is that the TOS is
different. I haven't tried, but maybe a disk based TOS (V1) works.

	Richard

    Excellent! (or rather not excellent for him 8*))
    
    Thanks for clearing that up, Richard!!
    
    Tony I

	Hi!
	I have discovered a rather awkward behaviour in the score editor lately.
	It seems like the notes have to be of the same value, ie you can't
	have a 1/2 and 1/4 note at the same spot. I don't know if the 
	limitation is within the score editor or if it is GDOS that can't
	handle this but it shure is very annoying. Maybe, hopefully, it's
	fixed in 3.0.




		Jack

    Hi there !
    
    I was always sitting down with my stop watch to find out the BPM for a
    given song. Now I found a way how to automate this with Cubase.
    
    - go into Tempo-Recording
    - select Human Sync
    - choose the appropriate note length for the
      matching pattern by clicking on the notes displayed and dragging
      them to their correct positions, for example for 4/4 you drag it
      to the second and the fourth vertical line (difficult for me to use
      the proper musical terms in english , as I don't know them good enough).
    - according to the documentation an offset value of 1 has been found to
      be a good value, so adjust that one
    - if you want to have an average tempo for the whole song select smooth
      yes. If you want to see the tempo changes along the song leave it
      off. However, your timing needs to be very exact, but it helps to get
      the idea.
    - go into the synchronization menu and select Tempo Sync: Human Sync
    - switch on the Sync button on the tape transport page (not too sure 
      about this anymore, try it with and without)
     
    Now start the song on the CD or Casette player and generate a MIDI
    event for quarter beat (for the example above). I use a drum pad, but
    you might as well use the keyboard or whatever, any MIDI note on event
    will do.
    
    Cubase now calculates the speed based on your quarter beats and records
    it into the master track. That's one entry, if you have smooth on, an
    entry for every tempo change for smooth off. This is also quite handy
    for songs where it slows down before a break or at the end.
    
    Hope that helps.
    
    	Richard
     
    
    

    
    
    
    Anybody got version 3 yet?
    
    I'me not to keen on the idea of having to put my dongle in the post to
    get the new version back. Doesn't seem to be intended for the
    professional user with studio uptime to worry about.
    
    						PeeKay

    I don't even use Cubase and that sounds like a scary thing to do!!
    
    Edd

Hi Paul !

V3 is still out another 1 or 2 weeks as confirmed by the local dealer
yesterday. This dealer collects the orders for the upgrade. So in this case
it's just a matter of going to the shop and exchanging the stuff....

But that's propably different in UK....

	best regards

		Richard

P.S.: Are you interested in a few wave ROMs for the TG55 ???

    
    
    Richard
    
    Yes interested in the wave roms...
    
    I must have some new ones for you by now I guess??
    
    How far did we get.
    
    BTW I expect to get my V3 kit tomorrow...If not then we are into the
    hasher with a vengeance..
    
    						Paul.