Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    from the Synthony NAMM report, touch-typed, no corrections:
    
    SB-55 - $695
    The SB-55 Sound Brush is a portable 1/2 rack sequencer that features
    playback operation with virtually no loading time and compatibilty
    with the standdard MIDI File Format.  Playback of up to 17 tracks and
    16 MIDI channels per track are possible.  Files from Roland's MC
    series sequencers can also be used with the SB-55 after conversion
    using MRM-500 file converter.  Three playback modes are available:
    Program Play mode allows the user to select the order of songs for
    continuous playback, single Play lets you select individual song
    files, and Random Play plays the songs continuously in random order. 
    As the OS of the SB-55 is a "spooler" type, there is little or no wait
    time between selections.,  If songs are started after the beginning of
    a selection, MIDI controller values are checked and played correctly. 
    Connections include 2 MIDI inputs and MIDI out.  A wireless remote
    control can be used to control all functions.
    
    SC-55 - $795
    The SC-55 Sound Canvas is a 1/2 rack MIDI tone generator.  A total of
    315 sounds plus 9 drums sets are built in as well as digital reverb and
    chorus.  There are 128 sounds from Roland's MT32/CM32L LA tone modules,
    as well as smpled sounds from their RS-PCM collection.  The SC-55 is 16
    channel multi-timbral for MIDI and up to 24 note polyphony.  Sound
    programming is possible with Time Variant filters and Time Variant
    amplifiers, vibrato, and other parameters accessed via external MIDI
    controllers.  The SC-55 includes MIDI in/out/thru, and an audio input
    for mixing external audio siugnals with internal sounds.  As with the
    SB-55, a wireless remote control is included.
    
    karl (didn't look once)

    Yeah, my reaction when I read about this stuff in the Roland User's
    Group mag was "if only it had come out about 6 months ago when I
    was looking to dump my MT-32 for something fairly compatable."
    
    These are going to be hot products for people doing the kinds of stuff
    I'm doing (live use of sequencing).
    
    Some REALLY cool new ideas too:
    
    	o They both have two MIDI inputs and are capable of merging them
    
    	  This is really great if you are using sequences AND playing
    	  along with them (as I do)
    
    	o The Sound Canvas has audio inputs that can be mixed with the
    	  internal sounds.
    
    	  If all devices had this features we might not need mixers.
    
    	o The SoundBrush can be programmed with a set list and it will
    	  play each song after another with no gap as it is capable of
    	  loading the next song while playing the current one.
    
    	o The SoundBrush can record on several channels at once - thus your
    	  main sequencer doesn't have to support the MIDI sequence dump
    	  standard.
    
    	o These two babies together are only a single rack-space (i.e.
    	  they are each a half-rack).
    
    	o They each COME WITH a wireless remote!  I believe the same remote
    	  is capable of controlling EITHER.
    
    I may actually dump my U-220 (what I got to replace the MT-32
    for one of these babies.

Hi !

I've seen and heard these at the Musikmesse Frankfurt and must add to the
positive comments. What impressed me is the operation of the MIDI file player
and his almost non-existant loading time. Just step thru as you would do with
your CD player. 

I would not change a U220 against Sound Brush, but if one would do I'm
willing to give a Sound Brush for it  ;-)  . In other words the official list
price is around 1100,-DM, U220 is 2100,-. Street price for the 220 is 1600,-DM,
so I would assume that the street price for the Sound Brush would be 300$ in
the US. But I also doubt the sound quality is as good as the U220, even though
I haven't heard them in an A/B environment.

Alo, I will check the brochure about the editing. I was under the impression
that it would be a preset player only. I'll let you know.

	best regards

		Richard

    The thing on load time is that there isn't any.  If it indeed is a
    spooler, it simply spits out the MIDI data as it is read off the
    floppy, as opposed to unloading the floppy into a RAM buffer and
    outputting the MIDI data from the buffer.  Spooling is how the Alesis
    DataDisk sequencer option works.
    
    I can see one other use for this thing.  Roland alludes to use in
    a stereo system, and the GS standard allows "all" sequences to run on
    any GS gear without remapping channels, relocating patches, etc.  OK,
    this means there is now a stable hardware platform for playing
    sequences on.  Some enterprising "new age" composer could crank out an
    album to be played *in real time* using GS-compatible stuff.  I've
    already seen some isolated incidents of this sort of thing to run on
    workstation machines like the M1 and EPS.  The composer could even
    load up his own custom patches on the sequence disk.  Then the lsitener
    sits in his easy chair with his *remote control* and plays back his new
    "album" in full digital splendor.
    
    
    						Brian

     >>                  -< The Future Is Here Now? >-
     
     There are some folks at the MIT Media lab pushing this very idea.
     They claim the entire works of the well know composers could be
     stored on one CD. There was an article in a USENIX journal
     a year or so ago.  The media lab is also trying to get all of
     that data into MIDI form with MIDIzed Bosendorfer grands, player
     piano rolls, scanners etc. etc.  All we consumers need to do is
     buy the $100 SGU that replaces a stereo system....
     I suspect this might force standard program numbers for 
     instruments, and SGUs on chips.
     
     Dave

    One wonders what such a system does to the notion of interpretation?
    Will there be competing editions to replace conductors and performers?
    Will there be competing SGUs to replace instruments?  Or will we reach
    the ideal state of being assured that this is the "one and only best
    possible" performance of this work for all time?
    
    len.
    

Re .6:

Nah, I see just the opposite resulting from developments like this- if they do
in fact work out!

There are great numbers of folks out there who can't play a lick, but have their
own preferences for how stuff should *sound;* this type of gear would let every
armchair music appreciator select his/her orchestration and, perhaps, "conduct"
as well, choosing tempo (maybe varying in real-time), relative volume, etcetera.
My guess is that there'd be as many individual "perfect" versions as there were
listeners/interactors.

I don't think we really should hold our collective breath waiting for this
stuff to go down, really. If and when it does, though, I'd guess there would be
a *huge* expansion in the market for music of all kinds in the appropriate
medium. That's this guy's crystal ball, anyhow.

Cheers,
	Bob

    Hey, if they smartened up and tuned the piano in this thing, I'll buy
    one.
    
    Scott

    Daddy's told me they expected the list prices to run around $600 for
    the SoundBrush, $700 for the SoundCanvas. As far as I'm concerned, the
    SoundBrush is a great thing for performing, really just what I've been
    looking for. It's probably going to run a couple of hundred dollars
    more than the Alesis Datadisk with SQ, but it has the following
    advantages:
    
    1) The biggest thing is that it can read MIDI files direct from IBM
    format disks, so you can use an MC-500 or any IBM PC sequencer as a
    source.
    
    2) Unlike the Alesis, you have dynamic control over the playback tempo.
    
    3) It has MIDI input merge, as has been mentioned.
    
    4) It's only half a rack space (the Alesis is a full rack space).
    
    5) It can be set up to cycle through a whole set without stopping.
    
    6) It has a wireless remote control for all functions, including
    start/stop and tempo.
    
    The only disadvantage I can see so far is that songs are numbered
    rather than titled. At least, that's what Brian says. The way I
    interpreted the literature was that you had to use numbers in the title
    if you wanted to order the song selection. But I could be wrong.
    
    As far as the SoundCanvas goes, it really seems like a glorified D-110.
    It does have a few potentially useful features (again, it's only a half
    rack space, and it has more sounds accessible), but until I hear it I'm
    skeptical that it's worth the price when you can get similar
    functionality out of a D-110, which you can get used these days for
    around $300.
    
    - Ram

     Well, I bought a SoundCanvas.  
    
     So far, I like.  I had Roger Powell over for the 4th of July and he
    played with it a while.  He liked it too.  I told him it was a toss up
    between it and a U-220 for me.  He said he would have given me a deal
    on his 220 but thought I did the right thing anyway.
    
    So far, my only beef is the infamous Roland channel 10!  Seems as
    though many of the sounds that count toward that 300 some-odd are
    actually in the drum kit and can only be used on channel 10.  In
    reality, 128 sounds can be assigned to the other 15 channels.
    
    Yeah, it has no card slots for PCM data, but Roger says the filters
    alone make it better than the U-220.
    
    If anyone else gets one of these puppies, drop me a line.
    
    -Ed
    

    re: .10 (Chaban)
    
>    So far, my only beef is the infamous Roland channel 10!  Seems as
>    though many of the sounds that count toward that 300 some-odd are
>    actually in the drum kit and can only be used on channel 10.  In
>    reality, 128 sounds can be assigned to the other 15 channels.
    
    Does anyone remember the infamous "Roland polyphony" debate?
    
    Here's another example of a spec that doesn't lie, but doesn't come
    close to telling the whole truth either.

re .10

Last Friday I got a demo of the SoundCanvas at Mill's Music.
A friendly guy was kind enough to go over all of the 128 (great!) sounds...

Being still a MIDI novice and still not having decided which way to go
(it takes me long, doesn't it?), here's two things that I didn't have
the chance asking Mill:

1) Each sound can be modified (chorus, reverb, pan...)
   Can the sounds be modified SEPERATELY, eg. when you put reverb 60 on
   one sound, does the setting automaticaly apply to all of the other sounds,
   or are they all nicely independant and are the setups kept in memory after
   power of/on?

2) The resident demo is very nice... can one create such a thing using only
   Canvas and Brush, or do you need a full blown sequencer for that?
   
3) Suppose you work with a good software (which one?) on a PC (IBM compat),
   with the Canvas, a keyboard (piano) and all connected, can you select and
   modify the sounds on the Canvas using the PC interface (mouse!), or do you
   HAVE TO push the tiny buttuns of the Canvas? -- it seems to take a lot of
   Push Button Work to go from sound 1 to sound 128 -- I prefer some mouse
   mouvements!

Dirk

>1) Each sound can be modified (chorus, reverb, pan...)
>   Can the sounds be modified SEPERATELY, eg. when you put reverb 60 on
>   one sound, does the setting automaticaly apply to all of the other sounds,
>   or are they all nicely independant and are the setups kept in memory after
>   power of/on?

    Only one effect can be on at a time, so if you want reverb on one part
    and chorus on another, no can do.
    
>2) The resident demo is very nice... can one create such a thing using only
>   Canvas and Brush, or do you need a full blown sequencer for that?
   
    No, the Brush is a playback only device.  You must create the sequence
    with some other unit.
    
>3) Suppose you work with a good software (which one?) on a PC (IBM compat),
>   with the Canvas, a keyboard (piano) and all connected, can you select and
>   modify the sounds on the Canvas using the PC interface (mouse!), or do you
>   HAVE TO push the tiny buttuns of the Canvas? -- it seems to take a lot of
>   Push Button Work to go from sound 1 to sound 128 -- I prefer some mouse
>   mouvements!
    
    Yes, in MIDI, there is a message called a *Program Change*.  Sending
    one of these will set the Canvas to any of the 128 sounds you want. 
    All "good" sequencers have the capability to generate these.  They may
    require some typing rather than staright mouse control.  There are also
    many other control messages that can be sent from the sequencer to
    control the Canvas, including things like volume and panning of the
    sounds.
    
    						Brian

Thanks Brian... It's becoming clear now!
Dirk

re questionable specs:

I'm under the impression that the Sound Canvas is quite similar to the MT-32
and D-110.  If so, this applies.  I'm quite sure that I was able to set a
rhythm sound as the "tone" parameter for a timbre.  That means that you CAN
access all the rhythm sounds on all the channels. What is special about
channel 10 is that with it, you can have different notes access different
rhythm sounds on the same channel.  If you stick "closed hi-hat" into the
timbre for channel 7, then the only way you can get "open hi-hat" on channel
7 is with a sysex.

So I don't feel like that part is a questionable truth.  What I would question
is how they can call some of these tones useful.

BTW, on the D-110, out of the box, the writable tones are full of another set
of 128 tones.  You have to save them away via sysex before you start writing
to tone ram or they are lost.  (Well actually, there is a magic button sequence
to init its memory).  This might be the same on the Canvas also.  Take a check...


Burns

    Dirk,
    
    I'll have to start with the preface that I'm not yet familiar with
    the SoundCanvas, but I'm familiar with its predecessors, so take
    what I say with a grain of salt:
    
>1) Each sound can be modified (chorus, reverb, pan...)
>   Can the sounds be modified SEPERATELY, eg. when you put reverb 60 on
>   one sound, does the setting automaticaly apply to all of the other sounds,
>   or are they all nicely independant and are the setups kept in memory after
>   power of/on?
    
    Chances are good that the only thing you can adjust independently is
    HOW MUCH effect is applied to a particular sound.
    
    I know that on the D-110 it was not possible to get chorus on one sound
    and reverb on another, but I think that was possible to a limited
    extent on the U-220.  I don't know to what extent the overall
    architecture is based on the U-220.  I was told by a salesman that
    the samples sounded (to him) like they are the U-220 samples, NOT 
    the D-110 samples.

>2) The resident demo is very nice... can one create such a thing using only
>   Canvas and Brush, or do you need a full blown sequencer for that?
    
    My understanding is that the Brush is mainly intended for playing back
    sequences created using a full blown sequencer.  It does not have much
    in the way of recording capabilities.
   
>3) Suppose you work with a good software (which one?) on a PC (IBM compat),
>   with the Canvas, a keyboard (piano) and all connected, can you select and
>   modify the sounds on the Canvas using the PC interface (mouse!), or do you
>   HAVE TO push the tiny buttuns of the Canvas? -- it seems to take a lot of
>   Push Button Work to go from sound 1 to sound 128 -- I prefer some mouse
>   mouvements!
    
    I'm not sure of what's being asked here.  It seems like one of two
    things:
    
    	o During the playback of a song, can I change the sounds?
    
    	  Yes.  You can select new sounds using program change, and you
          can probably tweak the parameters of the sounds using MIDI
          SYSEX (system exclusive) messages (SYSEX messages are MIDI
          codes that are specific to a PARTICULAR synth).
    
    	o Can I DESIGN sounds using a PC
    
    	  There are PC programs referred to as "patch editors and
          librarians" available for most of the popular synths.  That
          allow you to do this using the mouse and presenting the
          parameters in a much friendlier form on the CRT than could
    	  be provide on the 2xN character cell displays that MIDI stuff
          typically comes with.
    
    	  I'm pretty sure there will be such programs for the SoundCanvas
          but they may not be available yet.
    
    BTW, my take on the SoundCanvas is that it's a really fantastic piece.
    It has very intelligent features and I'm contemplating dumping my
    U-220 and replacing it with a SoundCanvas.

    
    Re: -1
    
    Yeah, you can indeed apply effects in varying amounts to the various 
    parts although they must all be of the same type.  The machine groups
    effects as either reverb or chorus (flanging comes under the chorus
    category, I think)  Looking at the docs, I get the feeling you can use
    both groups of effects (reverb and chorus) simultaniously.
    
    BTW, the documentation is pretty good for a Roland.  
    
    -Ed
    

re .-1 and .-2

thanks to both of you...

>     BTW, the documentation is pretty good for a Roland.  

	It seems that the roland doc is getting better lately.
	the recent HP-2700 doc is VERY good and clear, even pleasant!
	Maybe some Roland docu writers are reading the complaints
	in these notes -- I hope they do!  ;-)

Dirk

    Agreed.  The docs on the MC50 and the D70 seem to me to be a lot better
    than for, for example, the TR505 and the S10.  There are lots of cross
    references, summaries and indexes.  Lots of pages and diagrams.  Much
    improved.
    
    Steve

    > The doucmentation is pretty good for a Roland
    
    My understanding is that some Roland stuff gets entirely new
    documentation stuff done by Roland USA, other stuff gets translated
    from japaneese.
    
    The trend seems to be that stuff intended for non-MIDI experts gets
    the good documentation - pro-gear gets the shaft.
    
    Now, *MY* reading of the literature is the that the SB and SC is
    intended for Pro's (certainly one would think SB is) but
    Tim at Daddy's mentioned that he got the impression that the SC
    is being targetted towards the home market ala the D-5 et al.
    
    I can only tell you the documentation for my S-550 (High end sampler)
    is truly attrocious!  Made reading my Ensoniq VFX-SD manual a real
    joy by comparison.

    
    The guy who sold me my SC said it was for "hobbyists"  too.
    
    -Ed
    

    
    Well, looks like you can assign drum kits to any part.  Also, the
    effects work like I said in a previous note.
    
    I guess the only real beef is no PCM card slot.
    
    -Ed
    

    
    Sam Ash is selling the SoundCanvas for 635 bux.  that's 50 less than
    what I paid 8-( They said they were out of stock, so I get the
    impression they must be moving.
    
    -Ed
    

    Any more news on this beast? I got a demo of one today and I was quite
    impressed. It seems perfect for my needs. The only problem I could see
    is :
    
    According to the salesman, the sounds that come with it are all you can
    get. You can't get new sounds into it in any way. Is that really true??
    
    Does anyone know the current price?? Daddys in Shrewsbury had it on
    sale for $649. Sale ends the last day in Sept. Are there lower prices
    to be found??
    
    Jim

    Two clarifications:
    
    I'm refering to the Sounds Canvas module in .24
    
    It is on sale for $649 until the end of September. Then it goes back to
    $699. This was at Daddys in Shrewsbury.
    
    Jim
    

EU Wurlitzer will almost always make it a point to beat Daddy's prices, 
even if they don't make any money on the deal. 

-Dan

 <<< Note 2600.25 by ROYALT::ORSHAW "Associate FTSG membership pending....." >>>
                                  -< Clarify >-

    Two clarifications:
    
    I'm refering to the Sounds Canvas module in .24
    
    It is on sale for $649 until the end of September. Then it goes back to
    $699. This was at Daddys in Shrewsbury.
    
    Jim
    

    Andk likewise, Daddy's will almost always make it a point to beat
    EU prices.  I know this to be a fact (don't ask me how).
    
    Both places really HAVE to do this.
    
    	db - who has insider info on both places

>    Andk likewise, Daddy's will almost always make it a point to beat
>    EU prices.  I know this to be a fact (don't ask me how).

I'm glad they've done that for you. More than one time, Daddy's has 
told me that they couldn't beat the price and to go ahead and buy it 
at Wurlys. (They make the claim that "you have to pay tax for stuff 
you buy at Wurly's..." - but that's not a valid argument to me.)

-Dan

    Received my new SC-55 last Thursday ($575 from Caruso's). Neat little
    machine. I actually *like* the piano; it's pleasantly MKS-20-like.
    (still doesn't make me want to ditch the PX, tho)
    
    It's got lots of useable instrument sounds, and some hilarious, though
    less useable special effects sounds. Seems to be best suited for
    OTB sample playback, although as I get acquainted with it I'm sure I'll
    find different ways to use it.
    
    Only nit so far is that it powers up as soon as you plug it in, even
    though it has an on-off switch (off is "standby"). This might be a good
    feature, except when you live in an area where there are frequent power
    blips. I awoke the other night to see it's bright orange display
    staring me in the face, despite the fact that I know I turned it off
    some hours earlier. 
    
    The remote control is nice, except that you really have to point it
    accurately, or it doesn't work (course that may be true of most
    remotes, but I don't know, this is the only one I have)
    
    The onboard demo is quite impressive. sounds very live to me. Hearing
    it helps me through the "I just bought this thing and now I have to
    deal with realizing that despite all it can do, I still have to do the
    arranging, and arranging is quite a job..." period, which for me can
    last quite a while. 
    
    I'll post more info as I become better acquainted with it.
    
    Scott