Conference napalm::commusic_v1

>    Isn't there a way to "sync" the two machines together?
>    I see advantages in being able to modify the drum machines
>    different outputs (four) with FX, and adjust levels of
>    different instruments 
    
    To sync them together you record a sync track from the drum machine to
    the tape deck.  When playing the tape back, the drum machine syncs to
    this track.
    
>    Is this what a sequencer does ?  Do I need
>    to spend $1000 on a sequencer to save a track of tape ?
    
    Sequencers only store control information.  That is, note-ons,
    note-offs, program changes, etc.  They can send a controller called
    MIDI volume (MIDI continuous controller, or CC, #7) which many MIDI
    devices will respond to and can be used to adjust their volume.  This
    is how synth jockeys get their beautiful mixdowns without a fancy
    mixer.
    
>    If I record somekind of Sync track on the 4 track, can I ping-pong
>    it around like I would with guitar and VOX tracks... or am I 
>    still wasting a track.
    
    Well, look at it this way.  Using one track for audio limits you to
    mono drums.  By using sync, the drums can be stereo and will sound
    better because you will mix them direct to your stereo master, rather
    than from tape to your master (does this make sense?  I hope so).  MIDI
    sync is more useful when you have *lots* of sequenced stuff (other
    synths, etc.) since they don't have to be laid onto tape until the
    final mixdown.  This is usually referred to as "virtual tracks", i.e
    although you lose one tape track to the sync tone, you can sync up as
    many MIDI sound sources as you like, each of which might otherwise use
    up a tape track.  You never have to  pingpong the sync track, though.
    
>    Also, think about all this stuff sitting in a room with all
>    my guitar stuff is making me have nightmares of cables 
>    all over the place.  Anyone have any suggestions as to 
>    "Studio Ergonomics" ?  I mean all my mics and stuff are 
>    lowZ three prongers, all my guitar stuff is 1/4" and most 
>    of the studio stuff is RCA.  Gadz,  I'll need all kinds of
>    adaptors and such !  Anyway out of this ?
    
    Well, you  will find most of the connectors on your multitrack to be
    1/4".  Typically only the tape outputs are RCA, because most often you
    will be aptching to a home stereo deck when mastering.  Adapters are
    cheap, go to Radio Shack, but about a dozen (at least) of the RCA to
    1/4" variety, these are more reliable than the 1/4" to RCA type, and
    use them for cables that have to go from RCA to 1/4" gear.  You will
    need transformers for your mikes (something the four track makers
    leave out all the time) if you want to plug them into the MT (but see
    below for good news).  That's life.
    
>    BTW - I do have a 16 channel mixer with 3 or four FX loops,
>    and a MIDI guitar rig.  Can the drum machine do patch
>    changes also, or am I still going to use my foot controller?
>    How can I take advantage of the mixer ?
    
    I doubt an R5 can send patch changes (Dan Eaton, correct me if I'm
    wrong).  As for the mixer, my advice would be, if it's quiet enough,
    patch it into two channels on your four track and then ignore the four
    track's mixer, period.  For mixdown, try patching the four channel outs
    of the tape into your board, that leaves you 12 channels to mix down
    your drums with (hey, the advantage of virtual tracks!!).
    
    							Brian

    Oh boy !  This is gonna be a blast.  I just got finished running the
    thru the Roland "try-this-try-that manual"...Kinda clumsy with this
    thing, but I'm having fun.  I figure to play with the drum machine and
    leave the 4 track in the box until I get a "song" written...Then the
    fun begins !
    
    I guess what I mean by the "ping-pong the sync track" comment was:
    
    Can I record the sync track on say track one, then overdub it and 
    a live guitar track to 4 and 1 one for something else, or will
    MIDI lose it in the shuffle ?  Am I being a lame brain ?  ;)
    
    Actually, I think I'm jumping ahead of myself, since I can't do squat
    with this drum machine yet...  I get that going good (it takes a while 
    to record a "song" on the R5.  Maybe I should just "go for it" and 
    leave the manual alone for a while.  
    
    Anyway, thanks for your response Brian, I'm sure as time passes by
    I'll have a TON more questions.
    
    jc
    
    onto

    
>    Can I record the sync track on say track one, then overdub it and 
>   a live guitar track to 4 and 1 one for something else, or will
>    MIDI lose it in the shuffle ?  Am I being a lame brain ?  ;)
 
    You don't want to do that. The sync tone is a real, audible tone that
    you can hear. If you bounce it to another track, adding another part in
    the process, you'll have this horrible squeal (not unlike the carrier
    from a modem) stuck in your mix.
    
    You CAN re-use the track, but only after you get to the point you no
    longer need the sync tone...
    
    Edd

	re: "studio ergonomics"

	For a long time I was constantly tearing apart the studio and 
	putting it back together to try to make the space more usable. The
	last time I did this, I made a model of the room first, using
	low-tech paper with cutouts of everything. This last rearrangement
	turned out to be substantial, but now the studio can be operated
	confortably by either one or two people. In addition, I was able to
	measure out my cables so that things don't get so tangled. (plus
	I bought another patchbay, so I spent more time in front of the
	equipment ;^) )

	I also made places to hang cables and adapters so they wouldn't kick
	around on the floor. 

	At least this current incarnation of my studio allows me to spend more
	time working on music. I think we had a discussion in this conference
	a while ago on studio setups. Hope this is what you were referring to
	by "studio ergonomics".

	/pjh

    there already is a topic on studio ergonomics (ergonometrics?) with
    lotsa replies and lots of bad VT art.
    
    check it out..
    
    karl

    In addition to some offline discussion, I want to add some to what Paul
    has said about ergonomics.
    
    	Since I recently moved to another state, I have had the advantage
    of moving up to a better studio space.  Yeah, its still in the basement
    and its still sharing the room with the furnace...  But there is much
    more room and the floor is carpetted, lighting is better...
    
    	I have found it extremely difficult to get everything in optimal
    places.  I wanted to be able to record sequences from the keyboards,
    perform mixer adjustments and do recordings on the multi-track and
    mixdown decks.  It would seem that nearly every piece of gear needs to be 
    in a very small workspace area.  And because I don't like to spend money 
    on things that aren't multi-functional (i.e., can be used in both studio 
    and various live applications), I tend to shy away from single point
    solutions (like patch bays).
    
    	This week (while my family was away visiting relatives), I had the
    time to really think it through and put things in what I think is going
    to be the best solution for the environment I have to work with.  It
    took a lot of sitting down and thinking through (alluding to Paul's
    statements in previous note).
    
    	I think patch bays (in spite of my previous grudge), while they tend to 
    be more of a studio tool than a live performance tool, can be invaluable 
    in cleaning things up and eliminating the "oh darn, gotta reach behind the 
    rack again" problems.  I just wish they didn't cost so much...  (whine).  
    If your rack has more than three or four units, it can be significantly 
    improved by adding a patch bay.
    
    	In my case I have two mixers.  I have eliminated the need for
    multiple strands of audio cable by placing the submixer on the keyboard
    rack.  That way, I run all sequenced material out a left and right
    submix into the main board.  I can also sub out the FX send and take
    advantage of the main board's digital reverb that way.  So now, instead
    of running six to eight separate cables to the main desk, I only need
    to run three.
    
    	Getting back to the opening note, you're going to find that items like
    drum machines and multitrack decks and mixing boards compete for table
    space.  In some cases there's not much getting around this.  You can
    get rack drawers for some items (like the drum machine), and these
    help.  I have built a lot of custom cases that deal with this.  I have
    one case that holds both the sequencer and the drum machine.  The
    sequencer sits on the top shelf and the drum machine is underneath it. 
    They are both held on the unit by velcro strips and the drum machine is
    mounted on a neatly fitted board that can slide out when needed.  This
    helps me out, particularly in performance mode as I don't need to do
    anything with the drum machine but turn it on (the sequencer "plays"
    the drums at that point).
    
    	However you work out the ergonomics, one thing is for sure;  it
    takes a lot of thought and either money or ingenuity (or both) to get
    things to an optimal state, and it only gets worse the bigger your
    studio gets.  It'd be interesting to know if there are some industry
    standards (beyond the 19" rack-mount) for the high-end recording and
    performance products that deal more effectively with ergonomics.
    
    	Dan
    

    I managed to get almost everything either right in front of me or to
    the side by stacking stuff.
    
    In front of me (i.e., in the same direction as the studio monitors)
    is a USS stand with three tiers.  The bottom tier holds my master
    keyboard, and sitting on the keyboard at the right end (covering unused
    panel space) is my sequencer.  The next tier holds two racks containing
    the bulk of my rack mount synths.  The top tier holds a rack with MIDI
    switching stuff, and as yet unracked modules. 
    
    To the right is all the mixing and signal processing stuff.  The monitor
    board is setting on a low stand, and straddling it is another USS stand
    with two tiers; the lower tier holds the recording mixer, and the tier
    above it holds racked signal processors and the 2 track mixdown decks.
    Underneath everything are some low shlevs for disks and tapes, manuals,
    etc..
    
    This works reasonably well - just about everything is within easy
    reach, though the stacking means some things require a little stretching
    and some displays are not optimally placed for reading.  It feels (and
    looks) more than a little like the cockpit of a 747, but that just adds
    to the thrill.
    
    len.
    

    Yo, the other ergonomics note is #1590.
    
    						Brian

    Only THREE levels on the USS rack, Len???  :-)
    
    I've got five levels (well, seven, but I unsling two of them so I can
    get into the bathroom.  :-) )
    
    	From top to bottom, viewed from the front:
                                
    
    		BOSE monitor				BOSE monitor
    		(on extender arms)			(on extender arms)
    
    			
    		Alesis Quadraverb	Sheet music holder
    
    
    		Alesis HR-16	    	Oberheim Xpander
    
    		   		Oberheim Xk-1
    
    		CQM			Ensoniq ESQ-1
    
    
      <--- to bathroom, DX-100, and Octapad
      			 (absent for now)		        	
    		
    					
    
    
    

    JC,
    
>    Can I record the sync track on say track one, then overdub it and 
>    a live guitar track to 4 and 1 one for something else, or will
>    MIDI lose it in the shuffle ? 
    
    You can't do that.
    
    The sync track is NOT really "audio" and that may be why you might
    have thought that you could overdub onto it.  The sync track does not
    "sound like" the sequenced parts - it's sounds sorta like a modem.
    
    Think of the sync track as a "click track" for the sequencer.  That is,
    just as you might listen to the click track on headphones to sync up
    with what is on tape, the sequencer "listens" to the sync trap to sync
    up with what are on the other 3 tracks.
    
    I hope this clears things up a bit.

    Set mod$hat=slightly on...
    
    Can we continue the "ergonomics" string in the previously mentioned
    note? Ain't no need for duplicate conversations...
    
    Pleeze?
    
    Edd