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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

2306.0. "Organization in the studio..." by WEFXEM::COTE (Bain Dramaged) Wed Apr 04 1990 16:46

    I'm losing it. 
    
    Custom patches in all my RAM banks, custom HR-16 kits for almost every
    sequence, patches stuffed into librarian discs. I tell ya, I'm outta
    control.
    
    How DO I keep this stuff organized? It seems everytime I wanna play a
    sequence I have to load librarian, load the patches, load the the HR,
    boot MRC, load the sequence, remember what synth is on what channel,
    ad nauseum...
    
    I've spentthe last 2 nigts in the studio doing housekeeping. Some of
    the hard and fast rules I'm going to force myself to observe are...
    
           1. Each synth gets it's own 'base' channel. 
           2. Each synth has one RAM patch that is disposable.
           3. Depend on sys-ex for loading patches at the begining of the
              sequence. Load the patches into the 'disposable' slot.
    
    How do you folks stay organized. (I'm assuming you actually *do* stay
    organized!)
    
    Edd
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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2306.1What Organization?DRUMS::FEHSKENSWed Apr 04 1990 17:2613
    I've tried to keep things under control by using the S-MRC software's
    "memo" facility, which allows me to attach a 99 line * 14 character
    note to each file.  In this note I indicate what's on each track
    (what part, what channel, default synth and patch id, rom or cartridge
    name).
    
    I've tried things like assigning each synth a base channel, but that's
    never worked, especially when I multitrack and reuse the same synth.
    I also leave patch bindings flexible until play time, because I always
    change my mind about what sounds best.
    
    len.
     
2306.2hardware vs. softwareHPSTEK::RENELuckless PedestriansWed Apr 04 1990 17:2719
       Edd,
    
         First, never ASSUME any commusician is organized !!!! 8^).  As far 
    as my organization/lack of goes, my hardware/MIDI config is pretty 
    consistant:
    
    SQ-80 (local)--MIDI out-->EPS (ch 1-8)--MIDI thru-->K1000 (ch 9)--->
       MIDI thru-->Obie M1000 (ch 10)
    
        Howvever, my software organization is HORRIBLE at best.
      - sequences saved to some disk and not labeled ...
      - sequences saved to factory patch (cuz there wuz room)disk  ..
      - EPS instrument configs scratched on backs of sheet music...
    
          ugh the list goes on...  
    
    8^)
    
    Frank
2306.5I hate floppy disksPAULJ::HARRIMANbzzzzzzzTHWACK!hmmmmmmmWed Apr 04 1990 17:5333

	Hmmm. I kind of think one person's organization is another's chaos,
	but...

	I try to get the KCS to remember as much for setup as possible. KCS has
	a text page as part of a file, so I use that. I use ESQ-1 sequences
	as "song configurations", which I map to reality via the KCS text
	page (who's gonna remember what song is SEQ-7?). If I can, I try to 
	save the EPS banks onto a disk, although I also document the channels
	in the KCS. Stuff like the Midibass and the HR-16 get selected via
	a program change event in the KCS, since 9 times out of 10 I'll forget
	to set them until I hit play and it's wrong.

	The Atari has a hard disk, so I keep two partitions for KCS and Copyist
	(both use both partitions). I separated the ST software onto it's 
	own partition and "pictures 'n CAD" stuff is on another partition. 
	Makes backups a lot easier, usually only one partition gets changed
	in a session. 

	I have lots-o-floppies. The EPS floppies are currently under a semi-
	lousy filing system which I thought would be a reasonable way to
	do it but turned out to be useless after I hit 100 disks. First,
	samples can be difficult to categorize, second, nonsequitur samples
	are stored on the same disk. (like percussion and a piano, or 
	gong and chorus). I'm trying to find the perfect librarian, but
	then I'd probably need the computer which is running KCS instead. 
	The ST floppies are eithe distribution disks or backups, so they're
	easy to stash (I don't use them much). 

	Anybody got a decent catalogue process, program or both? 

	/pjh
2306.6re-enterNRPUR::DEATONWed Apr 04 1990 18:0147
2306.7To see: type "EXT TT"NRPUR::DEATONWed Apr 04 1990 18:0565
							Disk #             

	MC500 Sequencer Disk Log


	Song Title:                                  Mem. Used:            


RD200: (ch 08) Piano voice:                                                

R5: (ch 10) Song #     (SYSEX Dump saved on disk #        Date:           )

SPX50D: Patch (ch 16)                                Used on:              

TX81Z: (ch 05) PF  :  (Bass &)              

    Instr 1:  (I07 - Bass)       Polyphony:  (01)  Ch:  (02)  CC7:  127  
    Instr 2:                     Polyphony:        Ch:        CC7:        
    Instr 3:                     Polyphony:        Ch:        CC7:        
    Instr 4:                     Polyphony:        Ch:        CC7:        
    Instr 5:                     Polyphony:        Ch:        CC7:        
    Instr 6:                     Polyphony:        Ch:        CC7:        
    Instr 7:                     Polyphony:        Ch:        CC7:        
    Instr 8:                     Polyphony:        Ch:        CC7:        

MATRIX-6R: (ch 03/04) Patch/Split:                                              

    Instr 1: (MIDI ch 03)                    Polyphony:       CC7:        
	Other Controllers Used:                                          

    Instr 2: (MIDI ch 04)                    Polyphony:       CC7:        
	Other Controllers Used:                                          

YS200: (ch 06) Patch:                           Multi:                          

    Instr 1:                     Polyphony:       Ch:       CC7:       
    Instr 2:                     Polyphony:       Ch:       CC7:        
    Instr 3:                     Polyphony:       Ch:       CC7:        
    Instr 4:                     Polyphony:       Ch:       CC7:        


Other:                                           (ch      ) 

Other:                                           (ch      ) 



Notes                                                                           

                                                                                

                                                                                

                                                                                

                                                                                

                                                                                

                                                                                




2306.8of all people!MUDDIN::DEBARROSWed Apr 04 1990 19:1313
    
    Well.. I'm in the same boat!  And when I do housekeeping for a couple
    of days and everything is organized, I dont take care of it.  I can't
    even get myself to keep a consistant log book of volumes, reverb
    params,  mixer settings per song.  If I could have a file called 
    Song_load.com and let it fly... things would be so much easier.
    
    If I could come up with a Naming scheme as simple as Song 01 and keep
    all the info in a log... That would solve my problem.  (What am I
    talking about, I already attempted that.  If its not software, I dont
    want to deal with it.
    
    Leeeeeeeeeeeeeee   R_______
2306.9The W WordAQUA::ROSTBass is the placeWed Apr 04 1990 20:0836
    My studio is a lot smaller than what most of you have, but the idea of
    keeping things organized had a lot to do with my buying an SQ-80 (The
    other main influence was db holding an Uzi to my head...no, just
    kidding).  The disk drive allows me to save patches, sys-ex and
    sequences all in one place.  In fact, when saving sequences, the
    current internal patch bank is also saved (no choice) so any custom
    edits you make for a particular sequence (things like pan, controller
    assignments, etc.) are stored away with a pointer to the sequences they
    belong to.  I went out and got a cart to hold my "everyday" patches so
    I could get to them regardless of what was stuffed into the internal
    bank.  
    
    The only drag is that while for a given sequence track, internal voices
    are displayed by name, the patches for external modules are simply
    "midi", not too descriptive.  You can easily see the program number,
    though, so it's not too bad.  By hitting "more" in the "mix/midi" page
    of the display I scroll from channel assignments to CC7 settings to
    patch names to track status (local/midi/both).  Pretty easy to see
    what's happening at a glance.
    
    I currently don't use the sys-ex storage, but can see where if I add a
    module more complex than my sample player, I'll be using it as well.
    The only restriction is that the sys-ex dump is a separate procedure
    that must happen before you load the sequencer (you cannot have sys-ex
    midstream in a sequence).
    
    Once I've powered up the boxes, I hit the "multi" switch on the sample
    player and I'm ready to go, the setup gets configured as soon as I hit
    "start".
    
    The biggest problem in getting organized was getting the *space*
    organized.  Now that I have a keyboard stand (I was using the top of my
    organ plus some desk space before) it's real easy to sit down and start
    playing.  Now I just need to get some *ideas*  8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    							Brian
2306.10time is musicHPSRAD::NORCROSSChange!Wed Apr 04 1990 21:4016
Organization is my middle name.

That's why  I  use preset-patches only, and fixed channel assignments for
each sound unit - so I never have to think about where I'm going to get a
patch from.  I  just  keep a list of which patches are available on which
channels, then call up the one I  need.   - no sysex patch dumping and no
disk loading - Not a whole lot of  flexibility either, but then I do have
300+ preset-patches to choose from.

Computer based sequencing is also inherently organized, especially with a
hard  disk,  since  there are usually notepad capabilities and plenty  of
user comments and midi setup info embedded within each sequence file.

/Mitch

btw, There is a related topic around called "Studio Ergonomics".
2306.11I B Organized (?)SALSA::MOELLERI know-let's speed up the Blues!Thu Apr 05 1990 00:1646
    Good topic - I was thinking of posting essentially the same thing.
    
    I use a fat looseleaf binder, one or more sheets per piece.  The first
    thing it lists is what media/label does the original of the piece reside 
    on, separate stereo master mixdown location (if different) and where are 
    the copies.  Also BPM if I know it.
    
    Possible original/mix/copy locations are 4-track, 8-track, cassette, 
    PCM, or Performer data disk (floppy).
    
    Another issue is of course 'track' assignments.  This is clearcut for
    the 8 track/4track, and a bit hazy for the sequencer.  Tape tracks list
    instruments, effects recorded (if any) for each track, mixdown-time
    effects to be imposed (in case I mix it to stereo again), pan position,
    and any special info.
    
    Sequencer pieces, I list the Instrument(K for Kurzweil, E for Emax),
    Patch number/name and the MIDI channel assignment.  Also, special notes
    for compound sounds, made of multiple patches responding to the same
    MIDI channel - not intuitively obvious looking at the limited patch
    label space afforded by Performer.  Also a comment on whether a track
    was transferred to 8-track for sample space or specific effects
    reasons, plus what track# it's on on the 8-track.  So this last covers
    compound pieces, with some parts on the 8-track and some parts played
    realtime by Performer.  The samples have pan information imbedded, so I
    don't need to add that.
    
    The EMAX allows me to set up a specific floppy for each piece,
    containing the samples used plus a 'map' of MIDI-to-sample assignments.
    This floppy is just labeled XXXXX Map and is kept separate from the
    regular sample library floppies.  I use three 5x8 index card boxes for
    floppy storage, one for MAC/Performer and two for EMAX flops.  The EMAX
    samples are organized by human voice, strings, horns, sound FX,
    percussion, synth sounds, guitars, and 'maps'.
    
    Organizing the Kurzweil sounds has been a challenge all its own.  I
    have over 225 sounds in the PX/A now.  Have set up a special Preset
    which brings all my faves into MIDI patch# range.  Now follow this:
    from Performer, the patch change is straight Preset number.  So I have
    a Macwrite document that remaps MIDI patch # to Kurzweil #.  However,
    for live playing, my KX88 uses 16-patch 'banks' to generate MIDI patch
    changes.  So now my Kurzweil cheatsheet shows 
            KX88bank/patch > MIDI patch > Kurzweil patch 
    ..in REAL small print, to get all 128 of them on.
    
    enough for now !  karl
2306.12Chart it out first!WEFXEM::COTEBain DramagedThu Apr 05 1990 12:2640
    One thing I *have* done that makes sequencing a tune infinitely easier
    is to chart it out from the record/CD before I even enter the studio.
    It's nothing major, but it saves a whole lot of time, especially when
    creating drum patterns...
    
    A simple one would look like this:
    
                          "Guilty"
    
    Intro:   ..|...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...
               |...|...|...|...|...|...|...|...
    
    Verse 1:   |...|...|...|...|....|...|....|...|...
               |...|...|...|...
    
    Chorus:    |...|..|...|...|...|...  etc...
    
    I sit down with a piece of graph paper and just make long marks on the 
    downbeat and short marks on the others. I used the above example because
    there are measures of 4/4, 5/4, 3/4 thru out the tune.
    
    During the sequencing process I make all kinds of notes on the chart.
    First are the measure numbers at the beginning of each section and any
    place else I want a quick reference to. Then are some cryptic codes
    indicating drum events; crash cymbal hits, rolls, anything. Then the
    HR-16 pattern number that I'm using on that measure...
    
                       |-----28----|-29|
                       |...|...|...|...|
    
    ...that makes it easy to keep track of the patterns in case I want to
    re-use them someplace else...
    
    I find that drum patterns often work best if the length is a multiple
    of 4, minus one. This lets me have a bunch of 1 measure 'riff' patterns
    that I can throw out to complete a 4 measure sequence. I also have a
    one measure pattern that has no riff that I can use just to keep the 
    basic pattern going.
    
    Edd
2306.13I Did That When I was 7DRUMS::FEHSKENSlen, EMA, LKG2-2/W10, DTN 226-7556Thu Apr 05 1990 14:025
    Gee Edd, where'd you ever get an idea like that?
    
    len (who has notebooks full of similar charts, even for original
    tunes).
    
2306.14me too, (sorta)NRPUR::DEATONIn TentsThu Apr 05 1990 14:1016
RE < Note 2306.12 by WEFXEM::COTE "Bain Dramaged" >

	In the past, I have always fully mapped out each drum part before I even
sat down in front of the drum box/sequencer.  That has gotten to be quite 
cumbersome.  I have dome something that falls somewhere in between my old
routine and the one you outlined.  

	I now make a song map as you have explained, but I'll go through the 
song before I start doing the drum parts and make notes in various measures -
things like "tom fill", "8th HH ride", etc.  

	As with my MC500 disk log, I also have forms I have made for both 
pattern mapping and song measure mapping.

	Dan

2306.15Good idea regardless of origination...WEFXEM::COTEBain DramagedThu Apr 05 1990 14:105
    Did I rip that off from you??
    
    Independant discovery...
    
    Edd
2306.16! is my cymbal symbolWEFXEM::COTEBain DramagedThu Apr 05 1990 14:1412
> 	I now make a song map as you have explained, but I'll go through the 
> song before I start doing the drum parts and make notes in various measures -
> things like "tom fill", "8th HH ride", etc.  
 
    Yeah, that's what my cryptic little symbols are for, to let me know
    that *something* outta the ordinary is happening there.
    
    I never notate my drums before hand. It's beyond me.
    
    Edd

2306.17misc commentsDYO780::SCHAFERBrad - boycott hell.Thu Apr 05 1990 15:0259
    Gee - I always just record a "phony" track (usually using piano for a
    gauge) and then pound in the drums in real time right into the
    sequencer (usually just kick and snare).  But again, I don't use
    "pattern" sequencing for drums anymore, either. 

    In short, I don't use the HR16 for anything except different kit
    configurations (and 100 do me just fine).  All drum sequences are
    stored as separate tracks on the Atari in MTP. 

    I used to have a nasty config problem with MTP, an ESQ1, and without a
    merger or MIDI switcher.  I've since decided to use MTP as the main
    sequencer.  Like others, I've defined a set of channels to modules: 

	    ch 1: MKS70			ch  9: 
	    ch 2: *			ch 10:
	    ch 3: 1000PX		ch 11:
	    ch 4: 1000PX		ch 12:
	    ch 5: 1000PX/OB-Xa		ch 13:
	    ch 6: Proteus		ch 14: HR16
	    ch 7: Proteus		ch 15: MIDIverb II
	    ch 8: Proteus		ch 16: Quadraverb

    Channel 2 is reserved for MKS in bi-timbral mode, but not normally
    used.  Since the Oberheim doesn't respond to controllers, I can blast
    the Kurzweil a CC7=0 (MIDI volume) and the OB is content to play right
    along.  If I'm not using the Oberheim, I just turn the volume down.
    Hmmm - I *could* make the OB channel 2 and forget that .... 

    As a rule, computer-based sequencers have a track-sheet or notepad
    facility to store notes about the sequence.  MTP is no exception. 

    As for SYSEX, since MTP has a built-in SYSEX facility, any special
    setups associated with a sequence can be stored right along with the
    sequence.  I use file names to keep track of things.  For example: 

	MYTUNE.MTS	MTP sequence
	MYTUNE.HR6	HR16 sysex
	MYTUNE.JX	JX10 sysex
	MYTUNE.PRO	Proteus sysex

    Of course, this is not conducive to live work.  When I've had to play
    live in the past, I found that I usually used no more than 20 or so
    distinct patches per SGU for an entire gig (usually far less than
    that).  I've got a librarian program for the Atari that lets me set up
    custom patch banks, so I listed patches used on a piece of paper, then
    built custom banks and loaded the SGUs before gigging.  This eliminated
    SYSEX twiddling (and time) at the gig. 

    What I would like to see is a command line based MIDI "shell", like
    so:

	$ copy/sysex PATCHLIB:mytune /modules=(HR16, DX7a, DX7b, Proteus)
	$ MTP /input=SEQLIB:mytune /delay=5 /tempo=107
	$ copy/sysex DX7a PATCHLIB:dx7dump.tmp
	$ copy/ascii DX7a/patch=15 LP:

    To blazes with point & grunt.

-b
2306.18Emphasizing a point Brad madeDREGS::BLICKSTEINConliberativeThu Apr 05 1990 16:5510
    re: .17
    
    Yes, not using the drum machines sequencer has two advantages IMO:
    
    	1) You don't have to save and restore pattern memory
    
    	2) I think drum programming via patterns is usually a bad idea.
    	   I don't want to go into it in detail or defend that position
    	   but IMO it causes folks to have overly repetitive drums that
    	   don't "respond" to the music/lyrics. 
2306.19Subject for another note anyhow...WEFXEM::COTEBain DramagedThu Apr 05 1990 17:315
    Well, since you don't want to defend it I won't attack it.
    
    Let's just say I disagree.
    
    Edd
2306.20The REAL real world.BAHTAT::KENTpeekayFri Apr 06 1990 07:0132
    
    
    Being the untidiest bastard I have evet met I have disciplined myself
    (in a fun way of course) over a nunber of years to get very organised
    about the things that I do. One of the most influential things that
    happened was my vist to Dave Drehers studio where he was just able to
    pop a new disk into the MC and out came a different song. No massive
    repatching of cables (cords). No dissapearing behind the patch panels
    to rewire everything.
    
    I try do this myself. I have always had pre-assigned midid channels I
    can walk in turn on and away I go.
    
    CUBASE is a major help I can store patches,sysex  patch mods
    8 track assignment notes notes and even lyrics all on the song file 
    The only paper I have up there these days is one sheet of patches for
    the midi patch panel.  As I think I mentioned elsewhere, Cubase even
    has a mixer built in so that I don't have to touch the sliders on the
    MIDI sub-mixer anymore.
    
    I redesign the studio (sic) once every 3 months and believe I have just
    about got the optimum set up, unfortunately this may mean that the KX88
    will have to go (takes up to much room and I have resigned myself to
    never being that good a pianist anyway).
    
    In terms of disks all I need now is a CUBASE program disk and a library
    of song disks. 
    
    Still looks untidy though! What I need is a lake to look out at like
    the one MR Gabriel has.
    
                                Paul
2306.21The joy of sys-ex...WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanTue Apr 17 1990 12:3640
    Sunday was rainy, so I decided to start implementing the rules I laid
    down for myself in .0....
    
    Writing sys-ex is a pain in the tuckus, but the results were well worth
    it.
    
    Each synth now has 1 disposable RAM slot for each 'degree of
    multitimbrality'. F'rinstance, my DX can do splits and layers, so it
    gets 2 disposable slots, one in each bank. The TZ's can do 8 part
    multi-timbral, so they get 8 slots. Disposable slots are always the
    last ones, like I32-I25 on the TZ, or A16 and B16 on the DX.
    
    TZ's also get a disposable performance, again, the last one PF24.
    
    Each song now has a 1 or 2 measure lead-in, with all the sys-ex
    imbedded in it. I was kind of shocked at how fast one can fill up
    a buffer. This is kind of a pain, as I found myself moving sys-ex
    strings around by CPTs in order to give the buffer time to flush.
    On Striesand's "Guilty" I have to set up a TZ performance with
    4 2-note voices. Both patches are custom, so they have to be loaded
    in. That's over 300 bytes right there. Plus, the performance itself
    has to be loaded. 7 bytes times 12 parameters times 4 parts = 336
    bytes, plus a 70 byte name string. Plus probably another 50 - 100
    bytes of remote switch control and I'm pushing 1K for the 1st TZ alone.
    Judiciously spacing them out allowed me to squash them into 1 80 BPM
    measure without buffer overflow. (I suppose if I knew how big the
    buffer was and the internal processing speed I could avoid the trial
    and error.)
    
    The HR gets a custom kit and a program change. No biggie, I found I
    could plop it anywhere in the stream.
    
    Remote switching is preferably to sys-ex patch dumps for use of ROM
    patches. Obviously, it's silly to load a patch that you know is gonna
    be there...
    
    Next! We start sys-exing to the DEP-5... Now, if the Mirage would only
    take a sample over MIDI...
    
    Edd
2306.22Spring Cleaning For The TechnodweebAQUA::ROSTBass is the placeTue Apr 17 1990 13:0920
    
    Boy, all this MIDI stuff is supposed to make it easier to play more
    music, so how come we all gotta spend hours setting up the equipment???
    
    8^)  8^)
    
    I spent two *hours* on Saturday going through three disks of patches
    and pulling out *80* patches to fill up a cart so I could have the
    patches I would need most often on call.  Whew, what a slow process!
    
    Now, I have to go through those *same* three disks and organize all the
    patches I've got (somewhere around 2000) and organize them into banks
    by instrument type (i.e. pianos, e-pianos, organs, winds, strings,
    etc.) so if I need just the right patch for some sequence I can find it
    more easily.  I figure that's about a 12 hour project!!!  
    
    And I though having a disk drive would make everything more
    organized....8^)  8^)  8^)
    
    							Brian
2306.23Overhead in high-techPAULJ::HARRIMANbzzzzzzzTHWACK!hmmmmmmmTue Apr 17 1990 13:2411

	Yeah, it's amazing how much overhead is involved in high-tech
	studio work. Between diddling with patches and samples, editing
	sequences, reading piles of manuals, disk organizing on multiple
	format disks (I have Atari and EPS floppies, gaaawwwd do I need a
	hard disk for the EPS...)...I even had to stop and tune my piano
	the other day (remember tuning pianos? ;^) )... It's amazing we
	ever get anything done ;^)

	/pjh
2306.244GL::DICKSONTue Apr 17 1990 13:321
    Sounds like you need one of those librarian programs.
2306.25Need The 'Puter TooAQUA::ROSTBass is the placeTue Apr 17 1990 15:047
    
>  Sounds like you need one of those librarian programs.
    
    Only a true MIDIholic would say that.  Unfortunately, a librarian
    requires a computer to run it on....
    
    							Brian 
2306.264GL::DICKSONTue Apr 17 1990 17:0918
    Right.  Which strongly makes the case for computer-based sequencers.
    Once you have the computer, you can also run librarians and patch
    editors on them.
    
    My sequencer (Vision) has a companion librarian (which I don't have)
    and the libraries contents show up in the scroll windows when you go to
    pick an instrument.
    
    As it is, I can tell the sequencer what the program names are for the
    128 patches in my TZ, and when I want to change the voice I click on
    the current patch name and up pops a menu of my programs.  As I move
    the mouse over the menu, you can see the program names zooming by in
    the TZ's display.  Where you release the mouse sets the new patch.  And
    you can do this while a sequence is playing.
    
    The same popup menu appears when you go to insert a PC event, etc.
    
    Well, I was impressed.
2306.27{choke}WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanTue Apr 17 1990 17:155
    > programs zooming by in the TZ's display...
    
    Ever run into "MIDI BUFFER FULL" while doing this???
    
    Edd
2306.284GL::DICKSONTue Apr 17 1990 17:3512
    No, but then I haven't done it much.
    
    According to the manual, it takes about one time unit to send one
    event, and warns against trying to send too many program change, etc
    events at the same tick.  But all it says will happen is that the
    sequencer will fall behind momentarily.
    
    With playback stopped, me moving the mouse over the menu doesn't seem
    to push it.  This is running on a 2meg Mac with lots of memory free. 
    (Says it has room for 92000 notes.  And there is a 600KB Ramdisk
    holding the system, since I lack a hard disk and Vision 1.1 almost
    fills an 800KB floppy all by itself.)
2306.294GL::DICKSONTue Apr 17 1990 17:375
    Or do you mean a MIDI BUFFER FULL message from the TZ?  I can see how
    it might fall behind repainting its display.  This didn't happen
    either.
    
    Oh yeah: Vision's clock ticks are 480 per quarter note.
2306.30WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanTue Apr 17 1990 20:394
    Yeah, I meant the TZ. I found overloading the TZ's buffer was pretty
    easy...
    
    Edd
2306.31Computer Sold Separately Dept.AQUA::ROSTBass is the placeWed Apr 18 1990 12:3562
    Re: .26
    
>    Right.  Which strongly makes the case for computer-based sequencers.
>    Once you have the computer, you can also run librarians and patch
>    editors on them.
    
    Wrong...8^)  8^)
    
    It makes a case for the *computer*, maybe, but not necessarily the
    sequencer.
    
    While all of you out there with PCs of one form or another may find
    computerization of your rig a good deal, look at it this way:  I have
    no computer, because outside of MIDI, I have no application for one.  I
    have a VaxStation in my office and a terminal at home so what the heck
    do I need a PC for?  What "home computing" needs I have I do on my
    workstation (on my own time, of course...); that includes stuff like
    homework for grad school, etc.
    
    It's become increasingly commonplace for manufacturers to make MIDI
    gear extremely user-unfriendly unless you have a computer.  I'm sure
    this is a marketing decision based on the old chicken and the egg
    concept; oh, all MIDI freaks have computers so why bother putting in a
    decsnt user interface, just make everything accessible from sys-ex, but
    that's why everybody went and got a computer, etc.  Heck, a $2000+
    (list) box like a Korg M1 has *no way* to archive data except (not
    cheap) RAM cards, unless you have some sort of external sys-ex filing
    capability.  Sheesh!  This is progress?  For $5 they could throw in a
    cassette port for Luddites like me, but, hey nobody uses cassettes
    anymore, right (oh, if you were cute, you could always have the tape
    port do double duty as a tape sync interface for your sequencer, after
    all, both use FSK...waitaminnit, that's what my w-word does)?
    
    So, off to buy a computer...lessee, a second hard Atari runs about $400
    at best, toss in a sequencer and patch librarian and we're up to about
    $700, minimum.  Go to a PC clone or maybe a new ST and we're pushing
    $1K, howzabout a Mac?  Uh, time to sell the car  8^)  8^).  And *none*
    of this stuff makes music.  My $1100 "workstation" sure does and has a
    sequencer and disk drive, too.  Moving patches around is a minor
    annoyance, sure, but that's because of all the disk accesses you have
    to make (the OS lets you store individual patches on disk as well as
    banks).  Besides, half of the time is spent *auditioning* the patch to
    figure out what it is (so I know where to archive it).  Quick, tell me
    what a patch called WALDO is.  If you answered an electric piano, you
    win a prize.  If you happen to know what FISCAS, ZOLA or SYN67 are, let
    me know, OK?
    
    I have nothing against computers but I do have a beef with
    manufacturers who come up with such lovely marketing decisions like
    backing up memories with lithium batteries that are *not*
    user-replacable, or using RAM cards (why not EEPROM like Ensoniq, that
    way ther's no battery involved at least) or the lovely UIs that Roland
    comes up with (hold down this button, grab this lever, hit the switch
    with your nose while stomping on this footswitch on alternate
    Thursdays).  For the prices that these MIDI boxes go for, I figure it's
    reasonable to expect a way to inexpensively archive all these
    programming parameters we've been blessed with.  Which is why I bought
    a workstation with a disk drive in it.   
    
    						Brian
    
    				Still_looking_for_MIDI_IN_on_his_string_bass 
2306.32a computer is a multi-use toolSALSA::MOELLERCan you say 'filesystem' ?Wed Apr 18 1990 16:2026
    re .31 - Brian, as I read I saw your message move from 'why I shouldn't
    need to buy a PC just for music' to 'and they all cost too much anyway'
    to a general complaint about unrelated music product design zits..
    
    You may be correct that some mfr's are cutting corners based on the
    assumption that there will be a computer of some sort available.  If I
    were a mfr., and PC-resident software existed or could be written to do
    a function that would cost me big bux, I'd cut corners too.
    
    Perhaps insanely, in 1987 I bought a used MAC exclusively for MIDI
    sequencing.  A funny thing happened - it started to get used FOR OTHER
    THINGS - like 
    
    o	developing my cassette cover layout
    
    o	maintaining a music marketing address database
    
    o	music marketing correspondence
    
    o	my wife's papers for grad school
    
    o	funny cards to friends
    
    o	............................
    
    karl
2306.33take it easy, man !!HPSTEK::RENELuckless PedestriansWed Apr 18 1990 16:2610
    Hey Bri, a bit touchy today , eh???  8^) 8^)
    
          Did someone reinitialize your SQ-80 as a joke? Did someone get
    into the MASTER menu and change pedal from MOD to VOL? (I almost
    through my SQ-80 out the window cuz I thought it was busted when
    someone did this to me). Can't come up with any cute names for patches?
    
         8^) 8^)  8^)
    
         frank DIGPNO rene
2306.34but what if I'm in the red?SALSA::MOELLERCan you say 'filesystem' ?Wed Apr 18 1990 16:4023
             <<< Note 2306.31 by AQUA::ROST "Bass is the place" >>>
                      -< Computer Sold Separately Dept. >-
>    no computer, because outside of MIDI, I have no application for one.  I
>    have a VaxStation in my office and a terminal at home so what the heck
>    do I need a PC for?  What "home computing" needs I have I do on my
>    workstation (on my own time, of course...); that includes stuff like
>    homework for grad school, etc.
    
    Well, I missed this part.  I too have a personal VAXstation (KEYS::)
    in my office, and I have steadfastly refused to admit a DEC terminal
    and modem to my home - the temptation to do MAIL and NOTES from home
    would be overwhelming.  Also I'd have a problem personally and
    professionally using DEC equipment to run my studio BUSINESS.  Not to
    mention that I'd have to print all my cute PAINT program output on the
    office's LN03R..
    
    No, thanks.  I found that the home system DOES get used, and that using
    DEC gear for all non-MIDI but music/home/correspondence use is
    unappealing.  Not to mention grounds for dismissal if I'm running a
    business with it.
    
    karl
    
2306.35A Cooler HeadAQUA::ROSTBass is the placeWed Apr 18 1990 17:3834
    
    Re: .32
    
    I guess I did digress a bit  8^)  8^)
    
    To me, the need to have a computer to download memory is a simple
    marketing decision, based on the fact that many users will *never*
    download their memories, or for that matter even ever change patches. 
    I read once that Sequential found that something like 90% of all
    Prophets returned for service had the factory patches intact.  Even
    some computer owners don't bother....Mitch Norcross has stated several
    times in here that although he sequences on a Mac, he chooses to
    use only factory presets.   
    
    The fact that some some users *do* need data storage is evident by the
    recent introductions of MIDI data filers.  You may have seen the add-on
    disk drives for the Korg M1...here you have an expensive synth with a
    sequencer, for pete's sake, where you can't offload sequences except to
    RAM cards!! ???
    
    Sometime in the future I may find enough reasons for owning my own
    computer.  MIDI right now is not enough to justify the expense.  When I
    *do* get a computer, I can assure you I will hook it up to my rig PDQ.  I
    didn't really say they all cost too much, it's just that for the cost
    of an SGU, I got a sequencer and data filer essentially for free, and
    therefore didn't need to go out and spend an additional $700 or more to
    get rolling.  Heck, my first sequencer only cost me $50 and was worth
    every penny  8^)  8^)
    
    Re: .33
    
    Frank, maybe I should start drinking coffee in the morning   8^)  8^)
    
    							Brian
2306.36Gee, if only I could afford a computer...MILKWY::JANZENLife's beautiful from a DistanceWed Apr 18 1990 19:0315
    I would imagine that having a little computer is probably useful for
    making videos for local cable TV, learning C, writing music improvising
    software, writing scripts for performances, writing short stories,
    signing on to work to read notes over the weekend, doing a little real
    work for work from home, learning to program windowing applications for
    computer-music improvising software,
    recording all the music one wrote in 18 years using midi, making
    cartoons, making ray-trace images and nice graphics of words for making
    privately-distributed postcards, making posters, press releases, and
    other publicity for performances, writing personal letters, playing
    chess, playing jet fighter, playing dc10 pilot, printing cassette
    inserts for privately distributed tapes of computer-improvised music,
    and so on. 
    But I'm only guessing, mind you.
    Tom
2306.37Herald for the age of softwareDREGS::BLICKSTEINConliberativeWed Apr 18 1990 20:5825
    I sorta disagree on two counts.
    
    Brian sorta implied that manufacturers are compromising on UI's based
    on the assumption that a computer will be used.
    
    I think that may be true for very high end pro audio gear, but I think
    it's very untrue for mid and low range stuff.   For example, Roland has
    come out with a variety of stuff which is mainly old SGU technology
    packaged with a slick new display/interface technology.
    
    In the case of the high end, I think that is the right way to go.
    
    I don't want to learn/pay-for/lug/maintain/repair stuff that my
    computer can do.
    
    I think the ultimate is to have functionality that's delivered 
    "on a floppy" instead of "in a box".   I like the idea of buying
    general purpose hardware that becomes whatever I need it to be
    based on whatever program I run on it.
    
    To me, the IDEAL is to have a synths and such delivered in black
    rack-mountable boxes with NO buttons on them that are controlled
    entirely by my computer.   Unfortunately, that's not pragmatic
    today (the problem is with the computers, not the boxes), but
    someday I think that's how things will look.
2306.38I'd like more, sir!SWAV1::STEWARTAs a matter of fact, it's all darkWed Apr 18 1990 22:044
	CRTs with mice & ASCII kbds on my SGUs and a multi-windowed
	master computer to talk to them all...and an attendant to pack,
	unpack, backup, & debug the mess & fetch nice cold ones while I
	piddle around... 
2306.39Don't need no steenking 'puter....DCSVAX::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanThu Apr 19 1990 01:3213
    After spending the last few days hacking sys-ex I'm absolutely thrilled
    with what I have. All my addressable SGUs configure themselves with
    patches, performances, functions, etc., on the fly right at the
    beginning of each tune.
    
    I have to spend a little time up front setting the strings up, and
    frankly, that's a pain. The upside is I understand my hardware at a
    much deeper level than I did a week ago.
    
    Does anybody else use sys-ex this way? Ya know, really getting down and
    entering F0...........F7 stuff?
    
    Edd
2306.40It's trivial on the SQ-80DREGS::BLICKSTEINConliberativeThu Apr 19 1990 14:0026
    > All my SGUs configure themselves with patches, performances,
    > functions, etc on the fly right at the beginning of each tune
    
    > Does anybody else use sys-ex this way?
    
    I do, but I don't have to use sys-ex.
    
    And I do this all with my modest Ensoniq SQ-80.  I push one button,
    I get the list of loaded tunes - I push the button underneath the
    tune I want and
    
    	o Each SGU/channel is set to the correct patch
    	o The mix is setup correctly and automatically using MIDI
    	  volume
    	o The right effects are called up
    	o Each controller is connected to the right sound
    	o The sequence (if any) is ready to go by pushing play
    	o If there are patch changes that can occur only in the middle
    	  of a song (i.e. there are more sounds than I have controllers)
    	  I push one more button and I get a menu of all the patch
    	  changes I will need to do.  Pushing one button does it.
    	  (I could make it even easier than this if I needed to).
    	o If there isn't a sequence, I can still get a count-in that
    	  will start me off at the right tempo.
    
    	db
2306.41I will do itNORGE::CHADThu Apr 19 1990 15:1518
re: -.1

Except that I think Edd is also sending custom patches down the wire
in his sysex, so to do what he is doing you need sysex.

pretty neat anyway.


-


I plan on doing this someday when I have the musical parts of a tune
all set up and I'm ust twiddling oatches and whatnot for final production.

To get the musical parts down I use preset approximations of what the tune's
voices are.

Chad
2306.42WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanThu Apr 19 1990 15:3112
    Right. Any custom patch is imbedded in the sequence. ROM patches get 
    dealt with differently, but the selection process is still pure sys-ex.
    
    Dave, can the SQ-80 configure other SGU's via sys-ex???
    
    What I like about the sys-ex scheme is I don't have to continually
    find a place to store a custom patch. The librarian software assures
    me that I'll have it *somewhere*, but blowing it in on the fly is 
    just soooo much easier.... just make sure I don't store anything I 
    don't want to lose in my dedicated slots and I'm all set.
    
    Edd
2306.43questionNORGE::CHADThu Apr 19 1990 15:5814
Edd,

Are you saying that the TZ won't respond on each instrument to patch change
on that instruments channel in a performance?
If that is true, somethings wrong.

From my little bit of play on the U220 it has "patches" (like Y "perf"s) and
"tones" in slots in a patch (like Y* "instruments") but each tone-slot responds
to patch change commands and changes the tone in that slot.  I assume it is also
possible to change patch/performance too but I haven;t had it long enough to
worry about it.  I also don't think I'll have too -- set up one patch/perform.
and just diddle it the whole time.

Chad
2306.44Re .39(?) My hands are dirty with F0..F7PRNSYS::LOMICKAJJeffrey A. LomickaThu Apr 19 1990 16:0911
I've been slurping the F0...F7 stuff out of my Roland D5 for a couple
of days now, using some code I wrote for the Atari ST.  I can accept
the dump from the D5, and pigeon-hole all the information in easily
accessible data structures in C, and now all I have to do is put a user
interface on it for save/restore/edit.  The idea is that by putting in
a few days :-) of hard-core hacking, I should be able to graphically
enter new sounds with lots of sliders and buttons graphs and stuff like
that.  Plus the audition/compare will be automatic.  When you change
something, you will hear the original and the changed back to back, so
you can quickly get some intuition into what changing the numbers will
do.
2306.45Yes and no = kindaDREGS::BLICKSTEINConliberativeThu Apr 19 1990 16:1228
    > Dave, can the SQ-80 configure other SGU's viaq sys-ex?
    
    The legitimate answer here is "no".
    
    However, I do pretty much the same thing anyway.
    
    My organization is based around one SQ-80 sequencer bank.  That is,
    for each sequencer bank file on the disk, there is a specific
    configuration for all my other stuff.
    
    Each sequencer bank can contain several songs.  The SQ-80 can't send
    sys-ex at the beginning of a song, but because of how I do things, I
    don't need to.
    
    Most MIDI devices have a "dump/load current configuration by MIDI".
    (The one exception in my rig is the sampler, which I don't use much
    live.)
    
    The SQ-80 also can act as a MIDI filer.
    
    Thus when I am about to load a sequencer bank, I "load" the other
    devices via the sys-ex dump file.  A typical load takes only a few
    seconds, and an SQ-80 sequencer bank is easily one sets worth of
    material for me (not everything is sequenced of course, sometimes
    a "song" does nothing more than configure all the other devices
    in my rig, and that doesn't take up much memory).
    
    	db
2306.46I would be king!WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanThu Apr 19 1990 16:2213
    One of the other noters in here confirmed that the TZ will accept 
    patch changes on the instrument channel. I've never done it.
    
    I've also taken to making short little sys-ex utility files and storing
    them away. For instance, I've got one file that does nothing but blow
    ASCII into the name buffer. My DX won't do lower case or any special
    characters from the front panel, but will accept them over the wire.
    I just store this little 1 measure "song" on all my discs and it's
    always there when I need it...
    
    Now, if I only had a PROM blaster...
    
    Edd
2306.47NRPUR::DEATONIn TentsThu Apr 19 1990 16:418
RE Using Sysex in sequences...

	Yeah, I've been doing a form of this for some time - I believe I wrote
up a note or two about it a while back.  The TZ is great for this kind of thing,
as is most of Yamaha's professional and semi-pro synths.

	Dan

2306.48New device - MIDI prompterDREGS::BLICKSTEINConliberativeThu Apr 19 1990 17:0819
    
    > blow ASCIII into the name buffer
    
    Is that to mean that you can just post something up on an ASCII
    numeric display?
    
    I would love to have something that does "MIDI prompting" - that is,
    I could create songs with little notes that are supposed to pop up
    at a certain time like:
    
    	"Solo coming up"		"Stop coming up"
    
        "Bars left in solo - 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1"
    
    	"Remember Adim, *NOT* A minor!!!"
    
    	"Call your mother"  ;-)
    
    		db
2306.49okNORGE::CHADThu Apr 19 1990 17:149
re: Edd

OK.  I sort of remember now the discussion on patch change on TZ instruments
in a performance.

Thanks for jogging my memory

Chad
who_doesnt_have_a_TZ
2306.50Good idea...WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanThu Apr 19 1990 17:156
    Ya know, I'd never thought of that application but the answer would be
    an unqualified "YES".
    
    There's no reason the LCD has to display only patch names...
    
    Edd
2306.51WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanThu Apr 19 1990 17:174
    Hey! With some effort you could put the words to the song in
    your sequence!
    
    Edd
2306.52a new alternative for pencil & paper!SALSA::MOELLERvirtual bumper stickerThu Apr 19 1990 17:585
   <<< Note 2306.51 by WEFXEM::COTE "A friendly stranger in a black sedan" >>>
>    Hey! With some effort you could put the words to the song in
>    your sequence!
    
    A truly mind-boggling concept..     
2306.53Midi promptsKOBAL::DICKSONThu Apr 19 1990 18:0516
    I think Dave's question was about general text messages in Midi.  What
    we are talking about here is changing the NAME of a patch, specifially
    on the TZ, which displays the patch name on its LCD screen (unless you
    happen to be in PERFORMANCE mode, which I am all the time).
    
    The Midi file spec does provide for a whole host of text information
    that can be associated with a certain point in time, just like any
    other event.  These can be cues, or lyrics, or anything else you want.
    "This is the first violin part".   "Jump up in the air now".
    "Copyright 1990 by Fred Fretboard".  "Smoke bomb in 3 seconds".
    
    But the Midi protocol does not have a defined way to send them.  Some
    manufacturer could define a SYSEX sequence to carry them, though,
    for the prompt function you are talking about.  If it got standardized
    then sequencers would be able to convert the Midi file pseudo-event
    into the proper protocol message.
2306.54<take break>WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanThu Apr 19 1990 18:495
    ...but if one thinks of the LCD as a "blank sheet of paper" that the
    manufacturers just happen to write patch names in, then the message
    facility, and means of addressing it via sys-ex, are already there.
    
    Edd
2306.55Write to display without affecting "patch name"PRNSYS::LOMICKAJJeffrey A. LomickaFri Apr 20 1990 15:4643
Roland, at least on the D5, has a SysEx message explicitly for writing
the LCD display.  From my code, a "printf" that writes to the LCD:

displayf( s)		/* printf into D5's LCD display */
char *s;
    {
    static unsigned char str[ 100];
    
    sprintf( str, "%r", &s);
    str[ 32] = 0;
    sendex( 0x200000L, strlen( str), str);
    }

sendex( address, count, data)	/* Send Roland exclusive message */
unsigned long address;		/* Roland's exclusive data address */
unsigned count;			/* Number of bytes to send */
unsigned char *data;		/* Data to send */
    {
    unsigned char checksum, b;

    checksum = 0;
    Bconout( MIDI, 0xF0);	/* Start exclusive data */
    Bconout( MIDI, 0x41);	/* Roland */
    Bconout( MIDI, unit);	/* Current unit number */
    Bconout( MIDI, 0x16);	/* Model number */
    Bconout( MIDI, 0x12);	/* Command (DT1) */
    b = (address>>16) & 0xFF; checksum -= b;
    Bconout( MIDI, b);		/* Address bytes */
    b = (address>>8) & 0xFF; checksum -= b;
    Bconout( MIDI, b);
    b = (address) & 0xFF; checksum -= b;
    Bconout( MIDI, b);
    while( count--)
	{	/* Send out the data */
	address++; checksum -= *data;
	Bconout( MIDI, *data++);
	}
    checksum &= 0x7F;		/* Mask off the checksum to 7 bits */
    Bconout( MIDI, checksum);	/* Send the checksum */
    Bconout( MIDI, 0xF7);	/* Terminate system exclusive */
    Vsync();			/* Let it sink in */
    Vsync();
    }
2306.56Right on SYSEXNWACES::PHILLIPSFri Apr 20 1990 20:4118
    I find this topic extremely useful and interesting. I would like to be
    able to do all this sysex stuff from my software sequuencer, however, I
    am not sure I can download patches from the sequencer ( Voyetra Sp2+),
    that would be really rad you know. :)
    
    RE:.21- >The HR gets a custom kit and a program change. No Biggie.....
    
    I got a question for Edd or anyone else who may have the answer. Can
    I change the  note/pad assignments on the HR16 from sysex?  I use it
    together with the drum kits on the M1, I find it easier to
    store/program(Of course from my Yamaha DD-5) the drum sequence 
    on the HR-16.
    
    Also to do these sysex things with HR-16 one need to have the MIDI
    implementation chart. I'll appreciate it, if some kind person can
    send me a copy of theirs.
    
    Errol
2306.57When I get a spare month maybe...WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanSat Apr 21 1990 14:0113
    My documentation for the HR-16 doesn't even mention sys-ex, so frankly,
    I don't have a clue. 
    
    My gut reaction though is "Of course it does." I'll have to dump it to
    the MC-500 and take a look. Without a doc-set deciphering each word in 
    the string would be simply trial and error. I imagine if it's possible
    at all, the effort would be monumental. The HR-16 dumps it's *entire*
    pattern and song memory, which can be pretty huge. I don't think I'm
    up for it...
    
    Edd
    
    
2306.58Sysex sometimesPAULJ::HARRIMANIt's a dog eat dog food worldMon Apr 23 1990 12:4924
	re: .25 or so on

	I've found I haven't used as much sysex stuff as I thought I originally
	would when I started mucking with this (back in October I think). But
	I have been using registered and nonregistered parameters - it must be
	the SGUs, since their SYSEX implementations mostly document patch
	and sequence transmission/reception. 

	But I use a lot of registered parameters. Volume, especially. 
	I have found that nonregistered parameters which are assigned to a
	particular channel work fine (so long as you know your SGU's 
	parameters). I actually sequenced a filter Fco change, which I
	thought was pretty neat (used to be you just turned a knob, yaknow?)

	I still haven't figured out the brain-dead HR-16 sysex, four months 
	later. Not documented in earlier versions, as far as I can tell.
	Seems to understand "load everything" and "dump everything", but
	other than that, it's been indecipherable. If anybody gets farther,
	post it (I remember asking this once before but I don't remember any
	progress).


	/pjh
2306.59Why is their air? (B. Cosby, 1963)DOOLIN::HNELSONWed Apr 25 1990 22:359
    Would anybody mind if I wrote an article based on this topic, and tried
    to get it printed in Electronic Musician? Would anybody care to review
    it before I mail it out? Am I stepping on toes? Is anybody interested
    in reading a cogent, concise encapsulation of the prior 50-odd replies?
    Is there life after death, and if so, can they break a $20 (W. Allen,
    1966)?
    
    - Hoyt
    
2306.60not my decision, butCANYON::XEROXWed Apr 25 1990 23:4614
    
    
    
    
    You'd better get somebody to review it after looking at the way you
    misspelled the title of Bing's tune...Sorry, feeling a little cruel
    today and the thought of making a profit by rephrasing other's ideas
    brings out the beast.
    
    SWAV1::(John)STEWART
    
    
    
    
2306.61Not his real nameDOOLIN::HNELSONThu Apr 26 1990 11:3223
    Re -1:
    
    I'd be writing the article for the fun of it, to learn something, and
    to share useful information with a wider audience. If I got paid for
    it (I have no idea if that's likely), the rate would probably work out
    to $1/hour -- there are LOTS of better ways for me to spend my time if
    my goal is profit maximization (my wife and I are spending a fortune on
    home improvement contractors!).
    
    And "B. Cosby" refers to Bill, not Bing. One of my minor personality
    foibles is getting (momentarily) really annoyed when someone goes
    "Gotcha: You made a MISTAKE!" and the error is theirs.
    
    I'd really like to avoid rat-holing this topic. Maybe y'all should ust
    send mail, if anybody has strong opinions or esp. policy statements?!
    
    And now we return to our Feature Presentation:
    
                         Organization in the Studio
    
    - Juan
    
    
2306.62Spell my name right!!WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanThu Apr 26 1990 12:2437
    SET MODE/MODERATOR=ON
    
    The contents of this note and this conference are the property of 
    Digital Equipment Corporation.
    
    SET MODE/MODERATOR=OFF
    
    Now, I can't imagine any reason why you can't write an article about
    things you know. I can write an article about habenero peppers and
    submit it to whoever I want, but...
    
    Not to long ago I co-authored a story about a bunch of DECcies saving
    the life of a cat. Since the FELINE:: notesfile was an integral part
    of the story, we did the right thing and ran it thru corporate PR
    before submitting in. To make the story short, the hoops we jumped thru
    trying to balance the requirements of DEC against the requests of the
    publisher were numerous. Of no small concern was the possiblity of some
    stockholder getting upset at the way in-house resources could appear to
    be being used.
    
    A word to the wise: You'll be better off NOT mentioning DEC, NOT
    mentioning a "computer bulletin board", or any other reference to
    the source of the info.
    
    ...and a request! If you do write it, I'd expect full credit for
    anything you may use that was fom me! Something along the lines of...
    
    "We greatfully and humbly acknowledge the words of wisdom passed down
    by Edd Cote, MIDI wizard, FM programmer extraordinaire, sequencist el
    supremo, and general nice guy (35, single!) for leading us out of the
    darkness".
    
    I don't think that's too much.
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd
2306.63op cit. Ed CodyDOOLIN::HNELSONThu Apr 26 1990 13:127
    Gee, that's kind of you, Edd, to keep the bio so short. The editor was
    arguing that the article itself should be longer than your bio, and
    I'll be delighted to cut out the parts about your early childhood
    development, smoking corn silk out behind the barn with Emmy Lou, etc.,
    even though that part IS a little steamier that the usual EM stuff.
    
    - H
2306.64KOBAL::DICKSONThu Apr 26 1990 13:253
    Ok, we know it wasn't der Bingle.
    
    But you still mis-spelled it.
2306.65I use MemoryMate to org. text on the PCDOOLIN::HNELSONThu Apr 26 1990 15:287
    I get REALLY, REALLY annoyed when people catch me in mistakes and I
    publicly and permanently tell them they're (their, there) mistaken, and
    then I'M mistaken, and I apologize for all preceding and subsequent errors
    of spelling, judgement, humor, and everyting else, and NOW would
    someone please return to the topic at hand?
    
    - Hoyt
2306.66point obscured, retry...SWAV1::STEWARTAs a matter of fact, it's all darkThu Apr 26 1990 15:4312
    Would anybody mind if I, too, wrote an article based on this topic, and
    submitted it to Electronic Musician? Would anybody care to review
    it before I mail it out? Am I stepping on toes? Is anybody interested
    in reading a cogent, concise encapsulation of the prior 50-odd replies?
    Is there life after death, and if so, can they break a $20 (W. Allen,
    1966)?
    
    - John
    

    				Get it?
2306.67Just don't do it OK?DREGS::BLICKSTEINConliberativeThu Apr 26 1990 16:1828
    A quick note on Notes etiquette.
    
    It's generally considered to be inappropriate to point out minor
    spelling and grammatical errors.
    
    o It tends to derail the topic (case in point)
    
    o It is a common reaction to feel somewhat humiliated when it's
      done (case in point)
    
    o It accomplishes nothing (case in point) other than perhaps to
      embarress someone.
    
    o EVERYONE makes mistakes, including folks whose grammar and spelling
      are usually well above average.   Notes are frequently composed
      as a "train of thought", and the words are typed shortly 
      after they pop into the mind. 
    
      Under these conditions, everyone screws up once and awhile.
      Noting is supposed to be a relaxing diversion.  We shouldn't
      do anything that might cause folks to feel they have to scrutinize
      anything they might write for fear of being brought to the front
      of the class and being admonished for a minor, probably accidental,
      violation of the language.
    
    My two cents...
    
    	db
2306.68wot db said...MIDI::DANDan Gosselin, CUP EngineeringThu Apr 26 1990 16:270
2306.69MIZZOU::SHERMANECADSR::SHERMAN 235-8176, 223-3326Thu Apr 26 1990 16:333
    Git 'em, db!  Git 'em!
    
    Steve
2306.70Pleeze??WEFXEM::COTEA friendly stranger in a black sedanThu Apr 26 1990 16:385
    Could I request, as a participant, that if this string must be
    continued it be done in another note??? Maye "Conference Issues
    and Gripes"?
    
    Edd
2306.71chad replies :-)NUTELA::CHADThu Apr 26 1990 16:4921
    RE: db
    
    Gee, I usually type the words before they pop into my mind.
    
    
    RE: The article request
    
    If you goal is just to write an article on studio organization,
    go ahead and do it.  If you use ideas from here that are really
    things "everyone knows about" then just use them.  If they
    are somewhat unique ideas (like using sysex to blast messages
    to the LCD), common courtesy would suggest you (offline) ask
    the originators if they minded you using their ideas.
    
    talking about COMMUSICs ideas for studio organization and COMMUSIC
    (as opposed to just the ideas) is a little more touchy.  There was
    already a note about wwriting an article about COMMUSIC somewhere here
    you can refer to..
    
    Chad (from LJO today through a 9600 bps modem into EASYnet then up to
    ZKO through EASYnet -- can you say slow?)
2306.72SALSA::MOELLERNever trust a Prankster.Thu Apr 26 1990 17:2517
    re - a few back :  db, you misspelled 'embarrass'.    (snicker)
    
    re the current rathole :  I asked a while back about writing a general
    article about COMMUSIC.. and consensus was that it would substantially
    endanger the continuation of COMMUSIC, *IF* I mentioned it or DIGITAL
    (tm) by name.
    
    Another twist is that I'd be mighty angry if you used any of my ideas
    slash quotes verbatim without credit, and it would be difficult to
    credit 20 odd (emphasize odd) contributors to this topic, without
    putting it into context, i.e. we be on a "bulletin board".
    
    So *I* dropped my idea about an article about COMMUSIC.
    
    Which I REALLY appreciate, most of the time..
    
    karl
2306.73Oh yeah???? ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-)DREGS::BLICKSTEINConliberativeThu Apr 26 1990 19:4917
    > you misspelled 'embarrass'
    
    I noticed that before your reply but (unfortunately) after someone
    had already replied to mine.
    
    By the way, I could find no clear-cut flaw in .72 (A+), so I sorta went
    back to the beginning of this topic and looked for your first reply
    (.11) and found two common errors in the first four paragraphs.
    
    "Looseleaf" and "clearcut" are actually hyphenated words ("loose-leaf"
    and "clear-cut").  (My 12th grade English teacher made me very
    sensitive to hyphenated words, although I'm sometimes lazy about them
    myself.)
    
    ;-)  ;-)  ;-)   ;-)
    
    	db