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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

2284.0. "Need info on good IBM sequencer software" by VMSDEV::NORCOTT (Wakarimasu ka?) Fri Mar 09 1990 15:14

    Hi there.
    
    I just bought a PC Midi interface and a Yamaha FB01.  I also have
    a freeware FB01 editor/librarian (I will distribute this later...
     found it on a BBS).
    
    I am looking for a sequencer.  I would like to get exhaust public
    domain possibilities first before shelling out money for one.
    I have tried the Cakewalk 2.0 demo and the Voyetra DEMO300.  Not
    really satisfied with either, one has good features the other is
    missing, etc.
    
    I would like:
    
    Ability to mute, change voice etc, while sequencer running (Cakewalk)
    
    Graphic note editor, edit/play notes with cursor keys (Voyetra)
    
    Sound on sound, record track while others play back (neither)
    
    Able to "play" notes in realtime from PC keyboard (neither)
    
    Would prefer to score songs with music notation (neither)
    
    Able to print sheet music, Postscript would be nice (neither)
    
    Does anybody know of/have IBM software with some or all of these 
    features?
    
    Bill Norcott
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
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2284.2I like CakewalkDUGGAN::RICHFri Mar 09 1990 17:0216
    I'm confused. With the exception of real music notation, my copy of 
    Cakewalk (3.0 - I think) does everything you want. Sound record while
    other tracks play back, real-time AND STEP-TIME record from a keyboard,
    edit both track data and piano roll notation, mouse support, macro's,
    200 plus tracks, auto start, etc. etc. etc.
    
    I DO have to use a separate program for standard music notation - DR
    T's - which ain't perfect but gets the job done.
    
    Maybe the demo software you had was really poor or maybe I
    misunderstand what some of the features are that you are looking for
    in a sequencer.
    
    -Neil
    
    
2284.3Personal Composer ...NRADM::KARLIt's computerized, no thing c,an go wrong nothing c an gFri Mar 09 1990 17:1730
    Bill,
    
    I don't know of any PD software that will fill the bill for all
    these requirements.
    
    I use Jim Miller's Personal Composer, and I highly recommend it for
    most or all of what you need. It's has 32 tracks, track bounce/erase
    capabilities, and an "event editor" where you can go in a tweak the
    midi data, move recorded midi data around, etc. It has a score
    notator that compiles into midi data for playback. With the version
    that I have (2.0) you have to delete your midi-data to re-compile
    the score notation. You can save your old recording, or part of
    it in another file, and overlay it onto your newly compiled midi data
    as a work around to this.
    
    I don't know about using the keypad to record real time. It supports
    the IBM Midi-Feature sound card, so you might get it to work with that.
    
    Version 3.3 just came out (I'm waiting fo mine), and that lists for
    $595.00. Add the price of the music feature card onto that. Version 3.3
    is suppose to be even more powerful and contains enhancements which will
    allow you to do more directly from a mouse.
    
    It may take a while to learn, but doesn't contain many bugs or
    non-feature features. The version may have most or all of the bugs
    removed.
    
    Regards!
    
    Bill
2284.4Release notes, anyoneSTAR::NORCOTTWakarimasu ka?Fri Mar 09 1990 17:345
The Cakewalk DEMO was 2.0.  Can anybody tell me what features they added
for 3.0??

Bill Norcott

2284.5Which Bill do you want?ITASCA::ALLENFri Mar 09 1990 17:3912
    re .0
    
    Bill, 
    
    I would agree with the previous Bill that PERSONAL COMPOSER is probably
    the ticket given your requirements.  But you should be aware that
    contrary to what was stated in .0, both Cakewalk and Voyetra's Seq
    Plus can do everything you need EXCEPT for the scoring. (I don't
    knoe about Voyetra's DEMO3000(?)).
    
    Clusters,
    yet another Bill...(sheesshh!! :-0)
2284.6More questionsSTAR::NORCOTTWakarimasu ka?Fri Mar 09 1990 18:0319
Well for example on Voyetra DEMO300 if I try to change the channel # of a 
track or the voice # or hit mute while I'm playing back, It says "can't
do that while sequencer is running".

Say I have three tracks and I want to play them back while I am recording
track #4.  How do I do it?  Or else, I want to record from the PC keyboard
and be able to hit a key and advance to the next beat.  Then, I should be
able to hear what all the other channels are playing on that beat.  Can I
do this?

Sorry about all the questions, normally it is a case of RTFM but with the
demo programs on a BBS you don't get a detailed manual.

They did a review of Cakewalk Profesional in this months Keyboard, I
would like to know what features the pro has that the regular 3.0 
doesn't.

Bill Norcott

2284.7for more info, do SHOW KEY/FU MTPDYO780::SCHAFERBrad - boycott hell.Fri Mar 09 1990 18:144
    Again, no scoring, but MTP is available for the PC.  The Mac and ST
    versions are real hip pieces of code. 

-b
2284.8I actually RTFM!SWAV1::STEWARTAs a matter of fact, it's all darkFri Mar 09 1990 18:3521
	Two things that Cakewalk Pro has that 3.0 doesn't: full SMPTE
	support and the ability to deal with the multi-port MPU-401
	cards. 

	I've got Cakewalk 3.0, upgraded from v2.0 after switching from
	the entry-level software supplied with my CMS clone of the
	MPU-401.  I'm just now getting some time in the studio again
	(God, I wish I'd taken piano lessons instead of trumpet) and I'm
	learning 3.0...so far, (with the exception of producing printed
	output) I've not seen anything in any other sequencer that this
	thing can't do.  Having 256 tracks gives a lot of room for
	exploring alternatives...If you're going to spend money on
	sequencer software, I can't recommend Cakewalk too highly. 

	[The preceding is presented as an unpaid, unsolicited endorsement
	of a product that we think is pretty hot!] 

	P.S. the release notes run to five pages so you'll understand if 
	I don't type them all in...Call Twelve Tone Systems in Watertown, 
	MA for additional info.  The only number I have for them is Tech
	Support (1pm to 6pm EST, (617) 273-4668).  Good luck.
2284.92 cents? 1 cent?INISH::HNELSONSat Mar 10 1990 02:0911
    hi, bill,
    
    PCMag reviewed I*M roughly a year ago, and raved about Cakewalk.
    Electronic Musician (or another of that ilk) did a survey about six
    months ago, and the writer described his intention to remain aloof, but
    he was just overwhelmed by Cakewalk and ended up endorsing it. It is
    the concensus winner. I'm bothered, though, by the fact that it doesn't
    do standard notation. That's my preferred idiom (having zip
    acquaintance with any other).
    
    - hoyt
2284.10ESKIMO::FOSSETTFri Mar 16 1990 20:1630
2284.11free opinions while you waitSWAV1::STEWARTAs a matter of fact, it's all darkFri Mar 16 1990 21:2827
	I don't know about Voyetra, but the Cakewalk V3.0 manual is a
	real improvement over the v2.x document.  While the Cakewalk
	manual does describe most program operations pretty well, it
	doesn't spend a whole lot of time in elaborate scenarios
	demonstrating how things go together. It seems to assume that the
	user knows why he wants to do something. 

	I think that, rather than buy a program based on a search for
	entry-level documentation, you should buy the program you
	perceive to have the most capability, and use it.  Buy some other
	books on sequencing and MIDI, and ask the noters here when you
	can't figure things out. 






	Of course, this all assumes that you're pursuing this on a hobby
	basis due to personal interest. If you're under time pressure to
	learn a sequencer because you're backing backing the Billy Idol
	Wheelchair tour, I can recommend a decent, expensive tutor in
	L.A. *8'). 




2284.12I recommend Voyetra..excellent documentationCSOA1::BREZLERMon Mar 19 1990 01:4312
    I'm using Voyetra Sp2. The documentation is excellent. I read some of
    it in a novel like fashion. The rest I scanned and am using as a
    reference. I think it's great compared to other documentation I'm used
    to. The editing you mentioned is well documented.
    
    Give me a call if you want to discuss further. I am a novice and need
    all the help I can get. I think Voyetra documentation is very good for
    someone of my limited skills. Dtn 422-7852.
    
    Gil
    
    
2284.13Voyetra's documentation is good.PROSE::DIORIOMon Mar 19 1990 13:0510
->                     <<< Note 2284.12 by CSOA1::BREZLER >>>
->               -< I recommend Voyetra..excellent documentation >-


I second that. I have SP3. Good documentation. Easy to understand. 


Mike D    
    

2284.14RE: ThanksESKIMO::FOSSETTMon Mar 19 1990 22:5413
2284.15Correction on some features in .0BAGELS::SREBNICKBad pblm now? Wait 'til we solve it!Wed May 09 1990 19:1719
             <<< Note 2284.0 by VMSDEV::NORCOTT "Wakarimasu ka?" >>>
                 -< Need info on good IBM sequencer software >-

    Sound on sound, record track while others play back (neither)

>>>	Wrong.  Voyetra Sp3 does this.
    
    Would prefer to score songs with music notation (neither)
    Able to print sheet music, Postscript would be nice (neither)

>>>	Right, but you can write Sp3 files out in a format that can be
>>>	read by several scoring packages, including Mr. T's Copyist.
    
    Does anybody know of/have IBM software with some or all of these 
    features?
    
    Bill Norcott
    

2284.16More info on featuresBAGELS::SREBNICKBad pblm now? Wait 'til we solve it!Wed May 09 1990 19:2330
              <<< Note 2284.6 by STAR::NORCOTT "Wakarimasu ka?" >>>
                              -< More questions >-

Well for example on Voyetra DEMO300 if I try to change the channel # of a 
track or the voice # or hit mute while I'm playing back, It says "can't
do that while sequencer is running".

>>> Right, you have to stop the sequencer, mute the track, and re-start.
>>> You can pick up in the same measure as the one you stopped in.

Say I have three tracks and I want to play them back while I am recording
track #4.  How do I do it?  Or else, I want to record from the PC keyboard
and be able to hit a key and advance to the next beat.  Then, I should be
able to hear what all the other channels are playing on that beat.  Can I
do this?

>>> This can be done easily with the record feature.  In fact, that's the
>>> way it works.  You just have to be careful that tracks 1, 2, and 3 do
>>> not send MIDI data on the same channel as you're recording.

Sorry about all the questions, normally it is a case of RTFM but with the
demo programs on a BBS you don't get a detailed manual.

They did a review of Cakewalk Profesional in this months Keyboard, I
would like to know what features the pro has that the regular 3.0 
doesn't.

Bill Norcott


2284.17Response to .10BAGELS::SREBNICKBad pblm now? Wait 'til we solve it!Wed May 09 1990 19:3850
2284.18SCORE? Couldn't find it herePAULJ::HARRIMANIt's a dog eat dog food worldSat Jun 23 1990 17:186
    
    Anybody heard of SCORE for the PC? 'm looking for information on
    it - I think it was written at Stanford. Supposed to be great.
    
    /pjh
    
2284.19check keyboard and talk to passportNUTELA::CHADMon Jun 25 1990 01:458
    check out old keyboard mags
    
    it was talked about in one issue about 1 1-1/2 years ago
    
    Chad
    
    PS: I believe Passport sells it
    
2284.20All good things come to those who waitDOOLIN::HNELSONFri Jul 27 1990 21:124
    I called PCMag today, and they promise another review of all the
    I*M-based sequencers within three months.
    
    - Hoyt