Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I own a RAMSA WR8118 mixing board. It has 18 channels and 2 (maybe
    3) effects sends. To be honest, I don't know enough about mixers
    to be able to tell what makes a good one. I asked around a lot
    (asked professional technical type people) and a lot of them liked
    RAMSA. This was 2 years a go though. Anyway, I saw the same board
    in the want advertiser for $1,000. The board originally went for
    about $3,400.
    
    I don't know if you are considering used, but if you do, try to
    find a tech-type who can check out the unit before you buy it.
                 
    There is a note somewhere in this conference on RAMSA. I don't
    know which one off hand. Good luck!
    
    Bill

    Topic 2034 might be a good cross-reference.

    The TSR8 is a great deck ... but I wouldn't pay over $2500 for one; in
    fact, if you get the board at the same time, the dealer should give you
    a much better price than that. 

    I own the cassette version of the TSR8 (238) and am just now starting
    to learn about the woes of recording without a multi-track (read:
    multi-buss) board.  Plugging/unplugging is a mega-drag; believe me, you
    *DON'T* want to use a something-by-2 mixer. 

    Depending on your needs, you will want a minimum of 4 subs (eg,
    16x4x2).  There is a TOA board advertised in the Sam Ash flyer that is
    20x4x2x20; posted price is $995.  Tascam also makes some multi-channel
    boards, but they tend to be a bit on the noisy side (from my limited
    experience). 

    Len?  John Arnold?  Dave Dreher?  PJ?  What are you guys using?

-b

    I've got a Tascam M-216.  It's 16 into 4 into 2.  The 4 busses are
    doubled to the 8 tracks on my Tascam 38 (i.e., buss 1 goes to tracks
    1 and 5, buss 2 to tracks 2 and 6, etc.).  This allows me to record
    up to 4 tracks at a time, and selection is done by the record enable
    switches on the transport.
    
    The -216 is a good little unit, but its noise level is too high
    for the quality of the rest of the gear I've got, especially the
    38 with dbx.  You can hear the noise floor come up and up and up
    as you punch up the buss selectors for each input channel.  Also,
    it doesn't really have enough sends for my needs, and I sure wish
    it had some stereo inputs.  However, it's awfully cost effective.
    
    I really need 24 inputs, 8 of them stereo, with at least 4 sends
    with stereo returns.  But such a board, at the noise levels I want,
    is more than I want to spend just now.
    
    len.
    

	TSR-8 is a great choice; I'd like one in the springtime.

	I'm back to the Porta-Two right now, so it's not such a big deal
	doing mixing (3 channels, everything else goes to the M-160 via MIDI)...
	But I've been looking at mixers... there is a Studiomaster board
	I've been interested in, 8 or 16 by 4 or 8 (depends on the models)...
	Of course, Tascam and the M-3xx series is an interesting diversion.

	I agree about the multiple buss/groups out, though. Better to just 
	get the cabling over and done with. 

	Minimum needs for a mixer are (in order of importance):

	1) Must have individual outputs from each channel. At least 8 of them.
	   Must have switches to allow you to switch source inputs (mic/line,
	    or mic/line/tape)

	2) Must have more than one fx buss. Three would be nice, 2 is ok.
	    Stereo fx busses are a luxury.

	3) Some indication of level. Don't need meters, but peak lights are
	    the least acceptable.

	4) EQ. Gotta have it.

	5) Price < $3000



	In that price range are StudioMaster (8ch), Tascam (12-16 ch),
	Alesis (16-24ch, see Mix Mag), and Roland (16-24ch). Also those people
	from G.B. who make the flat mixers (about 75mm thick, I forgot the
	name).

	In my work, I don't do a lot of miking anymore, so I could either
	get that Yamaha 6-fer balanced input module, or get the Rane one,
	either one is $350 range, or just use the adapters I've been using.

	I've heard of but not seen the new Roland. It's supposed to be for
	this sort of application. Anybody else seen it?

	/pjh

    You have probably thought out your needs already, but I just wanted
    to throw this out as a different perspective.

    I don't own a multi-track and seem to be getting by without one for the
    time being, as everything I am doing is sequenced, and I plan on mixing
    my current project (ala "New Age") directly down to 2 tracks.
    
    I may possibly pick up a 4 track to do acoustic stuff, but I think
    that for my needs 4 tracks would be all that I would need. Of course,
    to do it this way, you have to be satisfied with the number of SGUs
    that you have so that you don't have to multi-track with different
    takes off the same SGU. I just made my D50 multi-timbral with the
    M-EX update with this in mind.
    
    When I was first putting my studio together, I came SO close to
    buying an 8 track, but didn't at the last minute. For my needs,
    I don't regret not buying one.
    
    Bill

    Latest RUG rag has a matrix of mixers in it - page 63.  Nothing new in
    my book ... and nothing with more than stereo outs. 

    The new Roland gear looks like takeoffs on M160/240 technology. There's
    the M160E and 240E (with EQ, phantom power and XLR ins - big deal). At
    least they have inserts (stereo sends?).  Still only twin internal
    busses.  I want at least 4.

-b

    Thanks for the help ... The board that is begining to look good
    is the SECK 1282 (JBL Import) 12 x 8 x 8 x 2  four AUX busses,
    eight submasters and tape returns... ($ 1,600) anybody know anything
    about SECK ?
    
    
    Kg

	yeah, that's the people with the flat mixers. prices are good, sound
	is great, and they're relatively small.

	/pjh

    Yeah, I read a review of the Seck boards a while ago, someplace
    (real helpful, ain't I?), and they got a rave.
    
    len.
    

    I'd like to know more, too.

    And Len, that was a tacky title.  &*}

-b

    Well, it was in anticipation of Dan's extended discussion of contact
    cement...
    
    len.
    

    
    
    	Well our band has had a TSR8 for just over 2 months and we 
    haven't looked back since. To get any better you would have to
    spent a whole lot more. We were originally going for the Tascam
    M216 mixer but felt limited by the amount of aux sends, eq and most of
    all ,fader length. So we decided to go the whole way for the M320-B which
    has 8 tape returns, 4 aux's , effects and full length faders.
    
    	Both complement each other 100% and we got a good deal by getting 
    the whole lot as a package. I can can only give prices in Australian
    $$$$ so the best I can do is let you known we got around a 30%
    reduction by getting both at once.
    
    	BC

    >>> ... John Arnold?  ... What are you guys using?
    
    Sorry for the delay.  Just back from vacation and catching up.
    
    I'm using a Tascam 320B mixer with my Tascam 38.  This is a 20 input
    board with 4 busses.  There is a small 8-track return submix system
    built-in.  Each of the 20 channels has 1/4" high-impedance input as
    well as XLR low-inpedance input.  Phantom power for the XLR connections
    is switchable in pairs (i.e., 1 switch for channels 1&2, 1 switch for
    3&4, etc.).  There are 3 effect sends per channel and a 3 band eq per
    channel.  There are 3 or 4 effect returns (I can't remember off-hand).
    
    Part of the board is overkill for my use (i.e., all the XLRs) but I
    still could easily fill all of the inputs if I used all the direct outs
    and stereo effects I've got.  I hardly ever really run out of room,
    however since I do things in little chunks.
    
    I really wish I had an 8-buss board with more sends (or maybe just more
    input channels) but spending that kind of money would be silly for how
    much I use it.
    
    Of course, right now I have dreams of the Fostex or Tascam 1/2" 16
    track but then I'd probably want an 8 board, too.  I'll probably never
    get a 16-track (I do lots more to tape and less to sequencer than I
    think the typical COMMUSICer seems to do) but the possibility would
    drive any decision about changing mixers that I ever make.
    
    As I read the rest of the replies, I'll speak up if I think of anything
    else to say.  Bottom line is that I'm satisfied with the 320B for use
    with the 8 track setup I have.
    
    - John -