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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

2136.0. "Beginner music with AMIGA?'s" by HYDRA::CHICOINE () Mon Oct 16 1989 15:08

       Hello all,
 
       I'm running an A500, with 1meg, and 2 floppies, no hard disk.
      Education and entertainment for my two children ages 8 and 2,
      are the primary functions for the system.

        One of the paths I see the system taking my family is music. 
     
        What the system will have to over come is the total lack of music
     background from myself, and the total lack of computer illiteracy of
     my wife. For that matter, my wife's knowledge of music is probably
     limited to someone that can use the scales,  and had six months of
     music lessons on a flute, 5 years ago.   Big task for a little A500.

         Where do we start?    

         What keyboard do we start with?  (I'd like to be able to use it
          with or without the computer.) But I do want it to produce good
         sound, (I.E. If it's switched to piano, I'd like it to sound like 
         one.) I don't believe I need or want 10 million preset sounds,
         and X_HUGE # of polyphonic notes.

      I've seen notes in the COMMUSIC file about the low end CASIO MT-240,
    but I really would like something with 49 fullsized keys as opposed to 
    the small keyboard. But! my budget is non existent so I'm very flexible.

         What software do we start with?

         The CASIO MT-240 (has midi out) (Does it also need Midi in?)  
         runs between $175 and $190,  I've seen midi controllers for about
          >= $60. If the CASIO has Midi out, do I still need this?
         How much is the software? 
 
         Can we do _it_ for under $270.00 total?  New Y/N ___   USED Y/N ___
         " _it_ " = hardware and software.
         
         I've seen an AMIGA packaged kit containing a (yamaha -held like
         a guitar - keyboard, and software package of some type) on sale
         at System Eyes AMIGA store for about $178.00. Is this stuff just
         cheap kid's stuff? or not a bad deal for an OK package. ( I've
         seen this kit in lot's of AMIGA mags. I hope you know the kit
         I'm talking about.)

         Will we be happy and excited with immediate results (remember the 
         7 year old _  He's smart, but he's got a short attention span) 
         after the first few sessions, enough so as to inspire continued 
         use of the investment?

         Are there programs used to teach music, something that compares
         what you're playing to what you are supposed to be playing and 
         verbally corrects the player? I picture something that might
         display notes on screen and display what you play either on top
         of the original note (if you played the note correctly) or show
         the note you played in a different color next to the original note 
         when you miss it. Something with a metronome built in. That you
         can purchase different data disks with different music types and
         skill levels to learn. Something that would number or color code 
         notes for very early learners. Kind of like an electronic music 
         tutor, in the same light as the Mavis B.- Typing tutor.

         I've heard about a program called MUSIC STUDENT 1.
         Is this kind of what I'm looking for? 


   More questions;

         ON these mini keyboards there are sounds called "voices". Are 
         these the same as the "sampled sounds" on the AMIGA; And if so,
         can I then just get an electric piano with no "voices" and 
         select them internally with the software?

         Can I get a microphone and pass voice to the AMIGA, and then
         digitize / Funk-a-size it?  Just a toy for the kids?  I recall
         seeing something on one of the PBS kids shows where Stevie Wonder
         did this type of thing with a keyboard, a trackball, and some
         kind of PC.
      
         Does/can the AMIGA do the same thing as the 1970's moog 
         synthesizers did, to create some crazy sounds?
        
         These are just a few of the many questions I have, and I don't
         even know what to ask yet. I suppose once I start learning a 
         bit more, and asking at a few stores, I'll have a bunch more
         questions. Problem is, the stores that sell the low buck Casio's
         don't know anything about them, the Computer stores aren't staffed
         with musicians, and music stores can't be bothered to talk to people
         that don't already know everything about music, and can't help
         with the AMIGA specific questions.


             Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.

                             *** May God Bless ***
                                 John Chicoine
 


T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
2136.1good luck!SWAV1::STEWARTThere is no dark side of the moon...Wed Oct 18 1989 00:5920
>        What the system will have to over come is the total lack of music
>     background from myself, and the total lack of computer illiteracy of
>     my wife.				^     ^   ^    ^          ^

	Maybe you're not in such bad shape!  *8')

	    Before Brad puts in the obligatory references to the beginners
	    notes, (which you would be well advised to read) I'd like to
	    suggest Craig Anderton's book titled "MIDI for Musicians" or
	    something like that...  You're fortunate to just be getting into
	    this stuff.  It's cheaper and better than it ever has been. 
	    Another thing to think about is that *nobody* owns just one piece
	    of MIDI gear.  So don't worry about getting the absolute best
	    keyboard (or best anything) until you figure out what you want to
	    do. 

	    On a realistic note, I haven't noticed a whole lot of educational
	    programs that teach music.  So, if you really want to get the
	    most out of your investment you should consider investing in
	    music lessons... 
2136.2cf. amiga notesMILKWY::JANZENcf. ANT::CIRCUITS,ANT::UWAVESWed Oct 18 1989 02:146
    I am given to understand that Instant Music from Electronic arts
    is kind of basic.  Deluxe Music Construction Set uses musical notation
    (not MIDI hexadecimal) and is cheap.
    Dr. T s/w is often expensive and MIDI-detailed, I think without knowing.
    ;-)
    Tom
2136.3more amiga softwareMILKWY::JANZENcf. ANT::CIRCUITS,ANT::UWAVESWed Oct 18 1989 15:0229
    Here is a summary of part of an article in Amiga Resource, summer 89.
    Other amiga music programs are:
    Adrum, from Haitex under $80, 4-voice drum machine.
    Dr. T's Keyboard Controlled Sequencer under $250
    	MIDI sequencing program
    AudioMaster from Aegis; digital sound-sampling and editing program
    	to manipulate samples and save as instruments, under $60
    Dynamic Drums from New Wve, under $80, acts like a drum machine
     (probably the best amiga drum machine program) with MIDI
    Dynamic Studio from New Eave, under $200; a MIDI sequencing program
    	with drum machine capability; can play amiga instruments that
    	are made with Sound Oasis
    HotLicks from Infinity under $50; compositional software
    Instant Music from Electronic Arts under $50; some kind of low-level
    	screwy composition programwith internal synth.  Maybe non-MIDI?
    M by Intelligent Music; $200 music composition program.
    MIDI Magic from Brown-Wagh under $150; MIDI sequencer.
    MIDI Recording Studio under $70 from Dr. T. Simple sequencer.
    MidiVU from Diemer, $29; recording tracks from MIDI source.
    The MusicStudio $80 from Mediagenic; composition aid.
    Sonix from Aegis $80; music editor, with MIDI.
    Sound Lab from Blank, $295; editing program for Ensoniq Mirage samples
    Synthia from The Other Guys $100 or less.  creates and modifies
    	Amiga internal intrument sound files; helps to have a background
    	in musical acoustics.
    
    hardware: MIDI-1 from Creative Microsystems is a midi interface.
    
    Tom
2136.4Re: .1 -- I do!OPHION::WEISSMANThu Oct 19 1989 13:4518
    >     Another thing to think about is that *nobody* owns just one piece
    >     of MIDI gear.
    
    Hah.  The only piece of MIDI gear I own right now is my Kurzweil
    K1000.  I don't even have a computer hooked up to it at the moment.
    I do wish I had a drum machine, but I can do a lot without one.
    
    To get this note back on the track ... I'm planning to get a computer,
    and I'd like it to be an Amiga.  There is other software that wasn't
    mentioned in .3; for example, you can get Master Tracks Pro (a
    sequencer that I've heard is pretty good).  Also, there are some score
    editors that look like they might be pretty good.  Does anyone out
    there have experience with a good score editor and a good sequencer
    for the Amiga?
    
    Thanks,
    Terry
    
2136.5This is frustrating.HYDRA::CHICOINEThu Oct 19 1989 15:3330
    
    
       Thanks so far,,,   But as I thought I implied.
    
            I don't know nothing  {;=)  about this stuff.  Talk about
      sequencers and score editors, drum machine's,.... I know nout about.
    
      I will try to get hold of an electronic music mag. but I suspect
      90% of what I'll find in there will assume you know what they're
      talking about. My situation is a kind of a catch 22,  You have to
      know something about what you want to do with the package you buy;
      but the only way to know enough about what you'll want and need
      to have, is to allready have experience enough with the package, to
      know what you want.  I thought you all could provide the experience,
      and I could learn what I want and need from it.   { sounded logical
      to me! }
    
            Let me pose the question this way,
    
        maybe not.
    
                    Thanks anyway.
    
            I don't even know what to ask,,, I thought my original note
      was clear and simple enough.   I'll ask again when I know what to
      ask.
          
                                      *** May God Bless ***
                                          John Chicoine
          
2136.6SALSA::MOELLERInvisible to teenage girlsThu Oct 19 1989 16:1412
    You're right, John.. it's like a new language, and there's no shortcuts
    to understanding it.  The information IS here, and the folks WILL help
    you, AND you have to help yourself, too !  My impression that several
    of the music mags have more of a beginner's bent than others... "KCS"
    (Keyboards, Computers, Software) magazine is one.  Maybe a local music
    store has a MIDI Primer.  Maybe you could show up at a LERDS-BIM (see
    LERDS-BIM keyword) meeting and pump the old pros for info... if that's
    geographically feasible (I'm in Arizona...)
    
    Don't give up !  
    
    karl
2136.7hey kid, wanna buy a synth?JUNDA::Schuchard% Thu Oct 19 1989 16:3511
        ya, if you hang around this file for awhile, you'll get urself
        all kinds of wondering and confused and maybe a tad intimitated.
        But wait, the best is yet to come - you get a small machine,
        turn it on, and before you know it, not only do you start to
        understand the dialogue, you get this incredible urge to spend
        all kinds of dollars you most likely don't have, spend all
        sorts of hours working on sequences, and spending the rest of
        your time thinking up clever lies to tell the spouse....
        
        Just like a big time drug addiction ;-)
2136.8Some help...NRPUR::DEATONThu Oct 19 1989 17:2446
	Let me try to answer some specific questions...

>         The CASIO MT-240 (has midi out) (Does it also need Midi in?)  
>         runs between $175 and $190,  I've seen midi controllers for about
>          >= $60. If the CASIO has Midi out, do I still need this?

	You need MIDI IN and OUT only if you plan on having a two-way 
communication network between two (or more) MIDI units.  What is a MIDI unit?
Anything that uses MIDI to communicate to other units.  Your Amiga can be a
MIDI unit, a synth can be a MIDI unit, etc.

>         How much is the software? 

>         Can we do _it_ for under $270.00 total?  New Y/N ___   USED Y/N ___
>         " _it_ " = hardware and software.

	It depends on what you want to do.  You mention some program scenarios 
further down (having a program "listen" to what you play and correct you if you
make a mistake).  There may be programs like this out there, I don't know, but 
I have to ask - what is the goal?  Do you want to learn (or have members of your
family learn) an instrument?  I'd say you'd be better off in the long run taking
lessons on the instrument of your choice.  There's more to music than playing 
the right notes.

>         ON these mini keyboards there are sounds called "voices". Are 
>         these the same as the "sampled sounds" on the AMIGA; And if so,
>         can I then just get an electric piano with no "voices" and 
>         select them internally with the software?

	Some MIDI keyboards use "sampled" sounds, and they may be similar to
the Amiga's internal voices.  I would imagine there's the ability to access 
those voices from a MIDI keyboard, but not owning an AMIGA I can't say for sure.

>         Does/can the AMIGA do the same thing as the 1970's moog 
>         synthesizers did, to create some crazy sounds?

	Again, I don't the the capabilities of the Amiga, but I can tell you 
that you can pick up a used moog-type synth (monophonic) very cheaply these 
days.  Look in the local WantAdvertizer.  There's usually someone selling one
and you shouldn't need to spend more than $100 for one.  These will not be
MIDI Equiped (i.e., they will not be able to be interfaced with any other
unit, including your amiga), but they are fascinating to learn how to maipulate
sound.
        
	Dan

2136.9Info for Amiga users with Low music budgetsSQLRUS::RAKOWSKITue Jan 30 1990 13:1990
Greetings !

I have been recently Digitized (just came to Digital) and
I do think I may be able to help with your questions about
Amigas and Music....

You see I have an Amiga 2000 (ok... I traded up way back
and was one of the original sortware developers for the 
beast...) I have a 48 meg hard drive that seems to be 
cluttered with "samples".

How they got there... Well my husband (who is not musically
inclined) read an article in Amazing Computing (an Amiga mag)
on "How to build your own Digitizer" anyhow he was successful !
Oooo Ahhh ! we can (with the help of a cheap Radio Shack mike)
can say things to the computer and then "diddle" with the sounds.

For amusing your children and being highly cost effective, this
could be your solution.  The home brew digitizer came in at 
$30, I forgot the mike price... but these can be had for real
cheap. And the software we used with it was a public domain version
of Perfect Sound... cost $20 for the manual and to feed a starving
programmer.

This gets you fun voice thingys and whatever else your heart
desires to sample...

For example we have one of those annoying answering machine
things but the out going message is a fun bit of digitized 
mystery sounds which include a "stretch" version of our kitten
a "max headroom" version of my spousal unit (you know, significant
other... husband) and me in the background "keyboarding" a wild
version of Pink Floyd's "Welcome to the Machine" on my Kawai PH50.

Questions... comments... more info ?

Just ask....

Name:	Susan M. Rakowski
Speciality: Diddling Doodles Digitaly
                      <<< Note 2136.8 by NRPUR::DEATON >>>
                               -< Some help... >-

	Let me try to answer some specific questions...

>         The CASIO MT-240 (has midi out) (Does it also need Midi in?)  
>         runs between $175 and $190,  I've seen midi controllers for about
>          >= $60. If the CASIO has Midi out, do I still need this?

	You need MIDI IN and OUT only if you plan on having a two-way 
communication network between two (or more) MIDI units.  What is a MIDI unit?
Anything that uses MIDI to communicate to other units.  Your Amiga can be a
MIDI unit, a synth can be a MIDI unit, etc.

>         How much is the software? 

>         Can we do _it_ for under $270.00 total?  New Y/N ___   USED Y/N ___
>         " _it_ " = hardware and software.

	It depends on what you want to do.  You mention some program scenarios 
further down (having a program "listen" to what you play and correct you if you
make a mistake).  There may be programs like this out there, I don't know, but 
I have to ask - what is the goal?  Do you want to learn (or have members of your
family learn) an instrument?  I'd say you'd be better off in the long run taking
lessons on the instrument of your choice.  There's more to music than playing 
the right notes.

>         ON these mini keyboards there are sounds called "voices". Are 
>         these the same as the "sampled sounds" on the AMIGA; And if so,
>         can I then just get an electric piano with no "voices" and 
>         select them internally with the software?

	Some MIDI keyboards use "sampled" sounds, and they may be similar to
the Amiga's internal voices.  I would imagine there's the ability to access 
those voices from a MIDI keyboard, but not owning an AMIGA I can't say for sure.

>         Does/can the AMIGA do the same thing as the 1970's moog 
>         synthesizers did, to create some crazy sounds?

	Again, I don't the the capabilities of the Amiga, but I can tell you 
that you can pick up a used moog-type synth (monophonic) very cheaply these 
days.  Look in the local WantAdvertizer.  There's usually someone selling one
and you shouldn't need to spend more than $100 for one.  These will not be
MIDI Equiped (i.e., they will not be able to be interfaced with any other
unit, including your amiga), but they are fascinating to learn how to maipulate
sound.
        
	Dan


2136.10More Cheap StuffAQUA::ROSTEveryone loves those dead presidentsTue Jan 30 1990 13:376
    
    I also have a shematic for a MIDI interface for the Amiga that can be
    done home brew for about $10 of parts.  Send e-mail if you're
    interested.  
    
    								Brian
2136.11AMIGA new programs.ISIDRO::ISIDROWed May 30 1990 09:3817
    HI, AMIGA users!
    
    Before to join DIGITAL, 7 months ago, I was working in COMMODORE,
    so, I think I can help you a little bit.
    
    The recently and best programs in my eyes are:
    
    MUSIC-X: as secuencer, editing from MIDI, importing other files,
    etc.
    
    AUDIOMASTER-II: as sampler.
    
    SINTHIA: as synthesiser editor.
    
    Regards and good play.
    Isidro.