Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    What you describe sounds amazingly like a Yamaha SHS-10.  This beast
    has a MIDI-OUT port only.  No IN, and no THRU.  The keyboard is not
    velocity sensitive, which kind of limits the amount of expressiveness
    you can coax from it.  Even if it had a MIDI-IN, it isn't much of a
    synth.  2-op FM or something.  My FB01 sounds better.
    
    $50 is a good price for one.  List is something like $200, regularly
    available for $160.  I got mine on sale at Sears for $125.  I just use
    it as a data-entry keyboard to my sequencer, and to try out chord
    voicings.  (It is the only keyboard instrument in the house.)

    "How compatible is MIDI compatible?"
    
    I'll answer the question first in the broad sense.
    
    I've dealt with all kinds of standards, software, hardware, etc
    and I would have to say that MIDI is one of the most successful
    standards I've *EVER* seen in terms of compatibility,  acceptence,
    power, and flexibility.
    
    As far as standards go, it rates a 10 in my book.  (Anything that
    causes a revolution on the scale of the MIDI revolution is an
    AUTOMATIC 10 as far as I'm concerned - The fundamental ways that
    much music is being produced these days has been changed).
    
    It's not without it's glitches.  The glitches generally fall into
    one of three catagories:
    
    	o Clearly faultly implementation of the standard
    
    	o Vagueness in the standard that causes an incompatability
    
    	o Genuine limitation
    
    Now, on the business of the guitar pickup.  All guitar-to-MIDI systems
    I know of that use a special pickup ALSO require an additional box.
    
    You plug the pickup into that box, and it's the box that generates
    the MIDI signals.  $50 seems imaginable for just the pickup, but not
    for a COMPLETE guitar-to-MIDI system.  You should verify that whatever
    it is you're getting for your $50 is everything you'll need to
    plug into a MIDI SGU (sound generating unit).
    
    It's hard to imagine any "MIDI compatible" synth that can't "be used"
    with a guitar-to-MIDI system.   But what does it mean to be able
    to "use" it.
    
    The degree of flexibility you have is another story and is subject
    to the level of MIDI implementation of the SGU and your converter..  
    For example, how many notes can it play at once (polyphony), does it 
    respond to velocity (will it play louder if you pick harder), if
    your MIDI converter has a volume control or a sound-select feature,
    will the synth respond correctly to volume changes and sound changes
    (commands that get sent out via MIDI).
    
    An important feature for slaving to MIDI guitar is the ability to
    shape sounds.   If the unit has only preset sounds, you will find
    that only a moderate percentage of them can be used successfully
    with guitar due to a variety of things like "the tracking problem",
    guitar chord voicings, bends, vibrato, etc.
    
    Perhaps I should expand on these a bit:
    
    	Tracking problem - you probably may be aware of this already so
    		I'll be brief: you simply can't play a MIDI guitar like
    		you would play a regular guitar:
    
    		   + you usually can't play as fast, 
    		   + sloppy technique is exposed more on a guitar
    		     because if you don't hit the note cleanly, the
    		     converter can't figure out what note you wanted
    		   + bends and vibrato responds differently according to 
    	 	     how the patch or synth is set up
    		   + there is usually a small but often disconcerting
    	  	     delay in between the time you hit the note and
    		     the note sounds.
    	
    The net effect is that you have to tailor BOTH your playing and
    the patches you use to the capabilities of your system.
    
    For example, patches that have a very sharp percussive attack usually
    don't work too well with MIDI guitars.   You usually need to take the
    edge off them a bit.
    
    I have to get to work, but this is a start.
    
    	db

    
    	RE .2
      Dave...he's getting the *synth* for $50, not the Roland
    pickup/interface.
        RE .0
      If the guitboard(?) has a midi in, you can hook the pickup into
    it. Does the pickup include a midi interface, or is the interface
    a separate rackmount?.
    
    				Rich
    

    It sounds like the synth is the one described in .1, so it probably
    doesn't have a MIDI in, just MIDI out. That was my main question. The
    ad just says "MIDI compatible", so I wasn't sure. It sounds like it
    would not help for what I want it for (although it does sound like a
    good deal for some other application).
    
    As far as the pickup goes, I found out that it does require an external
    MIDI converter box, and that is not cheap. The whole package is running
    more than what I wanted to spend.
    
    I have tried MIDI guitars, by the way, so I understand the limitations
    on them, but thanks anyway for the advice, Db. I happen to like the
    Casio guitar-synths, and I though if I could pick up a MIDI synth cheap
    that would accept output from a synth pickup I might give it a shot.
    Looks like I'll have to wait until they invent transistors or something
    to bring the prices down.
    
    - ram

I recently tried a KORG Z3 guitar synth system. I was fairly impressed by it. 
The Z3 ccan track pretty fast, on fast attack patches I had to fly to get 
ahead of the synth and lose notes, on slow attack patches you're subject to
the patch so that's not an issue. The Z3 comes with 128 factory patches that 
are not user modifiable. AS a result of that NO SALE. However, the speed of 
conversion from analog to MIDI is almost fast enough to be useable, almost.

I guess the next generation might do it right....seems like I've said that
before

dbii

ps: the factory patches were the usual collection of lame and semi-lame sounds

    
    
       Pls elaborate on the Z3. Is it all in the guitar?. Price?.
    
    				Thanx, Rich

The Z3 consists of three parts":

1. Pickup: it velcros on between your current bridge pickup and the bridge
2. Controls: this gizmo attaches to your guitar and hooks your regular pickup
	and the MIDI pickup to the rack mount device. Attachment is achieved by
	removing the stratp button and using it to attach the mount for the
	controls. The controls, themselves including cable then snap in and out
	using a quick disconnect with 10 or so connections, this looked like a 
	weak point to me.
3. The Z3 single rack space controller. All 128 sounds are preset and not user
	modifiable. I found that only about 10 of the patches were useful, there
	was not one single decent string patch in the unit! However, it also
	will control other midi synths via the midi out. I didn't play with 
	this feature so I can't speak about the MIDI implementation. It also 
	includes a digital reverb that sounded pretty good to me, again I didn't
	spend a great deal of time messing around with this.

Price is ~$1500.00

	My opinion: It racks better than anything else I've tried to date, but 
	I haven't tried the newest Roland yet. The lack of user access to 
	the patches is enough to make me shy away, but the connector used on 
	the control plate is also somethign I'm a bit leery of...

	A nice try but not a contender.

dbii

    
    
    	Thanks. It sounds like cheese-whiz to me also. I'll stick to
    my MG510 until something comes out that really works...rich