Conference napalm::commusic_v1

RE < Note 2020.0 by TALLIS::JFOLEY >

	It sounds like you've got a good handle on getting started.  Much 
better, in fact, than most newcomers to the field.  The KCS software is good 
stuff, the Proteus looks to be a winner (though no-one has really tried one out 
for any length of time yet).  A couple of notes on some of the other things...

	There are lots of decent used keyboards out the to act as controllers.
How important is feel?  Do you want it to feel like a piano?  Does it need to 
have 88 keys (most synths come with 61 - five octaves)?  I take it from your
dislike of the sound of the ESQ that you don't want analog synthesis - is that
right?  Or is it that you just don't like the ESQ's type of analog synthesis?
Understand that if you want to create your own sounds, generally speaking, 
analog is easier to learn than most other kinds of synthesis.

	About the mixer...  Will you be recording?  That will dictate a bit on
which mixer you can use.  I have a Kawai rack-mount (8X2) which is fine for
performance but wouldn't be good for recording (too much residual noise).  They 
can be had for low $200's - new.  If rackmounting is not important, you can pick
up a Peavey board pretty easily for around that range - or for a bit more, a
Tascam.

	Glad to see you're not afraid of buying used.  You can do pretty well in
electronic music buying used as long as you use your head.

	Dan

Jim,

Check out note 1992; specifically 1992.1. There are lots of other notes
in here about getting started. See 2006, 1966, etc.

good luck,

dave

> Or is it that you just don't like the ESQ's type of analog synthesis?
    
    The ESQ is not an analog synthesizer.  It uses digital samples to
    generate its waveforms.
    
    	db
    

RE < Note 2020.3 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Conliberative" >

	O.K., technically, its not.  But my understanding is that while it uses
sampled waveforms, it still runs them through analog filters.  I call that a 
kind of hybrid of analog and digital synthesis which, due to its sound, leans
toward analog.  That's opinion, of course.  The Korg DW[8/6]000 synths fit into
this category, as does the Kawai K3.

	Anyway, the point was to try to steer the author of .0 into categories
of sounds within different types of synthesis.  After all, sounds is what its 
all about.

	Dan

    Gee Dan,
    
    Not only do we disagree about what constitutes a "multi-timbral synth",
    we may even have cause for a good debate on what constitutes an
    "analog synth".  ;-)
    
    	db

    to .0.. welcome.. this is the right place.  four years ago I was
    firmly in analog recording, and this conference helped me spend
    $10K or so ! Thanks a LOT, you guys !
    
    Seriously, a line-level mixer can be gotten for $2-300 with effects
    sends.  You will also need at least one effects unit, probably a
    low-end stereo digital reverb (used, $150 and up).
    
    karl in Tucson (106F today!)
    

    Vonada's Engineering Maxims #2:
    Digital circuits are made from analog parts.
    
    
    Therefore, all electronic synthesizers are analog.
    That settles that.
    Tom

RE < Note 2020.5 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Conliberative" >

	   Thank you all for the replies so far (keep 'em coming!).
	expecially pointers to other discussions.  I've searched though
	the titles for topics I thought looked useful, but there are
	some notes with non-intuitive titles that have useful information
	that I'd be unlikely to trip over myself.

	   I appreciate the education on what distinguishes digital
	from analog, however I'm not too concerned with buying a particular
	method of synthesis.  What's important is that it sounds good,
	or at least holds it's own when mixed with the Proteus.  
	I didn't mean to get down on the ESQ.  Ensoniq did a lot of things
	right with this machine, with a powerful and easy to use sequencer, 
	and a flexible and intuitive internal architecture.  For a point
	of comparison though, I got a chance to play with a Korg M-1 at E.U.'s,
	and heard one of it's mini-moog patches.  It had a warm, rich, "fat"
	sound to it that nothing I heard out of the ESQ compares to.  
	I'm looking for that kind of sound, along with the capability to 
	be creative designing my own timbres.  The M-1 is alot like
	what I'm looking for, but at ~$1900 and only 8 voices (16 sometimes,
	I know...) it's not enough to do the job alone, and it's more than
	I want to spend as part of a set.  (Perhaps I can barter out a 
	deal for a Proteus and M-1 package, we'll see :-)

	   With some quick arithmetic the observant reader probably noticed
	that I have already broken my budget of $2000 with the Proteus
	and a D-50, making budgeting a mixer and speakers difficult.  Let me 
	adjust the figure upward to a (hopefully) absolute ceiling of $3000,
	with the proviso that the whole system out to the speakers be good 
	enough to retain the (warm, rich, "fat") sound of the sources.  Is a 
	two hundred dollar line level mixer good enough?  I probably will 
	go for a digital reverb of some sort, although I want to hold off
	on other effects for a while.

	   Keyboard feel is fairly important (after sound quality).  I'm not
	looking for a piano action; It's hard to do drum riffs or an expressive
	sax lead on a piano keyboard, while you can still get by doing piano
	arrangement on synth keyboard.  I originally thought it would be a waste
	to go after a keyboard controller as a separate item, but if I could get
	seven octives, spring loaded keys, and a better over all controller 
	for the Proteus (or whatever else) for an extra $150 or so this might
	be the way to go. 

	   Recording is an eventual goal, but it isn't important yet.  I plan
	on waiting for DAT prices to come down.  I also want to play around
	with sequencing for a while and see if I'm any good at composing and
	arranging music before getting involved in recording.  I'll suffer with
	my stereo tape deck for a while.  I don't plan on gigging, although
	if my real-time playing skills improve (MIDI seems to help with this, too)
	anything may happen.

>    < Note 2020.9 by TALLIS::JFOLEY >
>	   Recording is an eventual goal, but it isn't important yet.  I plan
>	on waiting for DAT prices to come down.  I also want to play around
>	with sequencing for a while and see if I'm any good at composing and
>	arranging music before getting involved in recording.  I'll suffer with
>	my stereo tape deck for a while.  I don't plan on gigging, although
>	if my real-time playing skills improve (MIDI seems to help with this, too)
>	anything may happen.
    
    By the time DAT prices come down, the THOR technology will be out
    (recordable CDs).  Companies involved have already set $600 as an
    initial target price.  That sure beats paying $2,000 for a DAT deck!
    
    Mike

    re .11 - alternatively, by the time THOR writeable CDs are available
    (and we all know what "real soon now" means, and how often target
    prices are met by initial product offerings) DAT recorders will
    be available for considerably less than $2K.  The technology is
    basically the same as that used in VCRs, and just as VCR prices
    dropped dramatically once they began shipping in volume (you can
    get VCRs for what, $200 or less these days?) so too will DAT prices.
    
    The main impediment to low cost DAT availability is the RIAA's
    threatened lawsuit, and if you think the RIAA will not raise an
    even bigger stink about writeable CDs, I have a very attractive
    bridge to sell you.
    
    len.
    

re: writable CD's

AS I understand it they won't as in that case they will be in effect 
attempting to take on the computer industry as we are the world's volume
manufacturers of writeable CD devices (we as in Computer industry although
DEC does in fact sell a CD write once, read forever device). All rumors have
it that the RIAA has decided not to lose this one (rumors courtesy of MIX and
some english inport mag I have laying around somewhere).

but that's a different rathole

dbii

    Lest we get too far off track...
    
    I'm kind of looking at the same thing as .0, in that I'd like a decent
    keyboard controller with a built-in sequencer AND a decent synth.  In
    other words, I'd like a good workstation.
    
    Problem is, there aren't any available.  Any suggestions on what to use
    to drive a Proteus?
    
    BTW - you should not have to pay close to $1K for the Proteus.

-b

    
    Re.: .14
    
    	I thought the list price for a Proteus was $995.  They were
    supposed to be produced in volume around September, and possibly 
    the price would go down then.  I got this from the Proteus notes
    in this conference.
    
    	Do you have more up to date information on this?  Have they
    lowered the price of a Proteus already?
    
    				- Jim
    

    List is indeed $995 - however, I've been quoted anywhere from $805 to
    $845 from several different stores. 

    ProFound Sound (800-63-SOUND) *was* taking orders at $845 - was
    meaning that the salesman who used to do most of the business with
    DECMS (Shane) is no longer with ProFound.

    Chuck Levin's (301-946-8808, ask for Mark Towles) was talking around
    $800 a month or so ago, but the quote was never firmed up.  Like you
    said ... it's still early, and quantities are in short supply. 

    Dave O. - didn't you order one?  What'd you give for it (or is this
    confidential)? 

-b

    RE: .0
    
    Hi.  I'm in the same position as you.  I've just got into this game. 
    Infact, my Cakewalk sequencer and PC/MIDI interface arrived yesturday.
    
    I'm coming from a classical/jazz background so piano feel is VERY
    important.  I'm currently driving a D110 from a PF80.  I think a good 
    quality action and in particular, weighted keys, are very important.
    
    You might like to continue your thoughts on a controller keyboard and
    get a rack mount synth.  This was your investment will not be tied up
    in the synth technology and you will have a quality keyboard.
    
    Regards,
    
    Tim. 

	   The deed is done.  I finally decided to stretch the budget
	a bit and I bought a Korg M-1.

	   I think this was the best solution for what I was looking for.
	It sounds as good or better than anything else in it's price range,
	and it's got enough voices and digital effects to be an all-in-one
	studio, for a while, at least.  The only handicap of the M1 is 
	it's limited sequencing storage, which is incosequential to me 
	since the Amiga will be doing the sequencing.  The keyboard feel
	is good - better than the D50.  I wasn't looking for a piano 
	action to begin with, since this makes it hard to play
	organ or drum lines, although an electric piano w/keyboard
	might be good to have in the future.

	   This also allows me to postpone buying a mixer or other audio
	gear.  I'm in buisness with my stereo and a pair of $50.00
	headphones.