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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

1882.0. "Synthesized Guitar (note: not guitar synthesizer!)" by NRPUR::DEATON () Mon Jan 30 1989 17:49

	I'm full of new topics these days.  I am trying a lot of new things.  I
promise not to get quickly offended this time if a misunderstanding comes out of
this topic (just try to get plenty of sleep before you read this, o.k.?  &^).

	I came across a decent 4op FM guitar patch some time back and ran it 
through the distortion generator on my little practice amp.  The sound was great
but it was very static - i.e. it was a power chord hit and nothing else.  I 
tried using it to jam along with a song and it got old very fast.

	Now, I am by no means trying to eliminate the guitar in rock music, I 
just would like to add it to the stuff I play when I do my solo/sequenced-band
stuff.  Has anyone else tried doing this?  If so, what type of synth did you 
use?  Did you have multiple patches to simulate the various kinds of guitar 
sounds?  How much of it depends on the effects processor (amp 
filtering/distortion, stomp pedals, etc.)?  Did you need to use external
processors at all or could you fully synthesize the sound(s) with your 
patch(es)?  Are there any techniques you suggest to make the sound more like
the real thing?

	One interesting thing that happened was when I was attempting to come up
with a comping 'crunchy' sounding guitar.  I had to do some significant 
adjustments to the envelopes and operator levels to get it right.  All during 
the time while I was programming, I had the amp on distortion mode.  When I 
finally got something close to what I wanted, I switched the distortion off for 
a moment to hear what it sounded like without it.  To my surprise, when I 
triggered a note it was nothing more than a 'thock'!  Aparently, when this sound
was 'clipped', it lengthened the envelope in the processed sound!  Is that 
right?

	Dan

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1882.1HAMER::COCCOLIblinded by scienceMon Jan 30 1989 23:0210
    I've had some luck creating patches on a TX81Z that come pretty
    close to electric guitar. I use them on my midi-guitar and they
    are pretty realistic sounding thru a MVII. It sort of sounds like
    Holdsworth's sound when I try to simulate his style with those slow,
    expressive whammy bar bends. 
      I can't remember enough of the patches right now, but if you want
    I can post them in note 338. I think you still have a TX81Z?.
    
    					Rich
    
1882.2I'll take whatever you feel like postingNRPUR::DEATONTue Jan 31 1989 11:4610
RE < Note 1882.1 by HAMER::COCCOLI "blinded by science" >

>      I can't remember enough of the patches right now, but if you want
>    I can post them in note 338. I think you still have a TX81Z?.

	Yes, I have the TX81Z and a DX100.  Please post the patches, as I'm sure
they will be of interest.

	Dan
    
1882.3The definitive guitar sample collectionDREGS::BLICKSTEINYo!Tue Jan 31 1989 12:4934
    One of these days, some of us should pool are collective equipment
    and come up with the "definitive" guitar sample collection.
    
    Some of the samples I feel are needed
    
    Heavy sounds
    
    1) Sustained note
    
    2) Muted note for fast runs
    
    3) Power chord (assign the whole chord to one key)
    
    4) Muted crunch power chord
    
    5) Harmonic
    
    6) Feedback (to be used in cross fades - would love to be able to
       tie it to key pressure)
    
    7) Tapped note
    
    8) Pull-off note   (Karl could really exploit the tapped and pulled-off
       samples with that Emu feature that understand what the "first" note
       of a phrase is, whatever it is I that that classical guitar
       commusic piece used)
    
    Clean sounds
    
    TBS
    
    	db
    
    
1882.4bending ernie ballsMARVIN::MACHINTue Jan 31 1989 15:5416
    
    Can I add:
    
                                              e|
                                             e |
                                            e  |
                                          e    |
                                        e      |
                                     e         |
                                 e             |
                              e                |
    9)weeeeeeeeeee e e  e  e                   bong (s**t!).
    
     -- for reproducing the moment Ernie loses his ball.
    
    Richard.
1882.5Never broken my Balls ;-)DREGS::BLICKSTEINYo!Tue Jan 31 1989 17:5319
    Gee, Ernie Balls are the first strings I've ever used that have
    never broke on me.
    
    I once talked to Steve Morse about strings.  I was delighted, if
    surprised, to find out that not only wasn't I the only one who
    didn't think there was a significant difference between strings,
    but I was in VERY good company, perhaps the best company.
    
    Anyway, Morse had said that he had never "broken his Ball's"
    either.  Since that talk he's become an official endorser of
    Ball strings.
    
    I'm just curious if you picked Ball's at random or based on your
    experience with them.
    
    Note: I am not an aggressive whammy bar type although I do LOVE
    doing radical bends, major 3rd, occasional fourth - Yes, I do
    consider those to be radical even if there are folks out there
    who go beyond a fourth.
1882.6Maybe thy are better nowTYFYS::MOLLERHalloween the 13th on Elm Street #7Tue Jan 31 1989 22:1912
    The worst strings that I've ever used were KAMAN .008 R&R strings,
    they just didn't seem to want to stretch out & would never stay in
    tune. Ernie Ball strings used to break on me all of the time & I don't
    use any whammy bars. They may have fixed the quality control problem
    by now (it used to break right where the twist stopped near the ball
    end on any of the non-wound strings). I always use .008's. The best
    strings seem to be DARCO or GHS. I'm sure that there is little
    difference these days, but had I been sampled stretching a set of Ernie
    Ball strings a dozen years ago (when I used them occasionally), you'd
    undoubtly have had to edit out the obscenity when it broke.

							    Jens
1882.7do samplers count?SUBSYS::ORINLaissez FaireWed Feb 01 1989 01:4545
Dan,

I hope it's ok to talk about samplers. The D50 has some great acoustic
guitar sounds with those PCM attacks and all, and sort of a "synthy"
sounding lead guitar on one of the latest ROM cards. By using lots of
pitch bend wiggling, it sounds pretty good in context.

On the S550, there are some pretty fair lead guitar and power chord samples.
I bought the Prosonus Sound Library CD and sampled it onto the EPS. It is
loaded with all kinds of good stuff like...

Triads

major and minor, fast, slow, open and picked, power, downstroke, upstroke, etc.
on Les Paul, Heavy Metal, and Strat

Single notes

sustained, muted, Les Paul, Metal, Strat

Fifths

sustained, muted, LP, Metal, Strat

reggae lops, muted chunks, harmonics multi-stringed, whammy-bar up/down,
pyrotechnics, scrapes, stabs, etc.

Sequences

single notes, muted, E1 thru E2
fifths, muted, E1 thru E2

I didn't use any external f/x on the sounds. I've used the S550 samples on
several top 40's cover tunes. The guitar is so expressive, it's really hard
to get all your favorite sounds onto one sampler. The EPS patch select buttons
make it my choice for live performing. You can call up 4 different layers to
get more variety.

take care,


dave



1882.8HAMER::COCCOLIblinded by scienceWed Feb 01 1989 02:477
      I play guitar approx 1.5 hours per day before I go to work and
    break a string (no b.s.) about twice a year. My secret is I use
    very thin picks. I bent strings a lot (about 6 fret range) and use
    a whammy bar. I use D'Addario .008's.
    
       Aren't we changing the subject a little?.