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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

1860.0. "Recording Production Using "Minimalist" Techniques" by CGVAX2::COREY_J () Thu Jan 12 1989 18:13

    
    Of late, I have been toying with the concept of 'minimalism'.  I
    have been successful producing a 'high gloss' layered sound and
    want to venture into this new hybrid production technique.
    
    I began by subtracting certain instruments (traks) at different
    portions of the song during mixdown. For the chorus, I would drop
    a syncapated miramba sound and add an organ. Simple enough and it
    created the affect I was looking for.  However, as I began to do
    more experimenting, the song would lose continuity. Thus, my 
    original thought that minimalism was a production technique of
    subtraction was seemingly disproved.
    
    It could be concluded that as a sound is subtracted from a mix,
    another must be added to compensate the production. Now I may have
    a warped interpretation of the term 'minimalism' but its concept
    can be universally applied.
    
    We write a lot of real funk/groove orientated material.  The method
    of layering instruments/sounds is effective for those songs which
    rely on foward momentum and power.  But, songs with heavy groove
    and wide syncapation (vertical rythms) warrant a different approach.
    
    If anyone has ideas on this or can suggest midi software tools that
    create a better envoirment for this style of production, I'dappreciate
    it. Thanx.
    
    jo citizen
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1860.1some examplesANT::JANZENMr. MSI ECL TestThu Jan 12 1989 19:1129
    Minimalism has nothing to do with funk/groove or other pop music,
    mostly, except new age, for which it provided a platform.
    Minimalism is a metaphor taken from paintings with almost nothing
    in them, such as solid color paintings by Rothko, for music which
    changes very very slowly.  To a pop-oriented person, minimalist
    music has no melody, often no apparent harmonic change, no lyrics,
    no drum kit, and no commercial value.  Composers labelled 'minimalist'
    by dumb critics include Philip Glass, Steve Reich, Terry Riley (who
    started the current version in ca. 1965 with In C, but left minimalism
    in the late 70's), and the up and coming media hype success John
    Adams.  I have written some pretty minimal pieces as well.
    
    To describe this music is difficult, but here are a couple pieces.
    Piano Phase by Steve Reich: two pianos play the same figure at slightly
    different tempo.  I seem to recall calculating that one plays this
    repeating 12-note figure at MM 60, the other plays at 59.5, but
    it's done approximately, for an indefinite length of time.
    "Bed" from the "opera" "Einstein on the Beach" by Philip Glass has
    a phrase with 4 chords: f minor, Eb major, C major, D major, a
    sustained slow bass part, and a vocal line without words on long
    long notes.  The chords are in alberti figures, slow.  On the record,
    the phrase is played twice, then added to a little by adding more
    notes to the alberti harmonic line, played twice, added to again,
    played twice.  The f and C chords have the same partitioning (number
    of eighths in the fegure) .  So do the Eb and D chords.
    No rhythmm track.  

    gotta go long distance
    Tom
1860.2Minimal <> minimalismCGVAX2::COREY_JFri Jan 13 1989 13:4018
    Hmm...I do know 'minimalism' as a musical form.  But, this is far
    from what I had in mind.  I suppose I should bave a better
    understanding of the terminology before I begin using these terms
    like there is no tommorrow. I'm sorry for this.
    
    I'm more interested in the production technique of subtraction.
    Funk/Pop lends itself to this technique, while driving R&R works
    better with the layering of instruments. Placement of an instrument
    relative to other instruments (notes or phrases as well) is more
    important to a song with a funk back-drop.
    
    Does anyone know of a midi software product that would create an
    optimum envoirment for this approach. A friend has has a Mac and
    he uses 'M' and 'Jam Factory'. He gets very good results. Are there
    any others out there anyone knows of?
    
    Thanx
    jo citizen
1860.3another contextNAC::SCHUCHARDPC ArcadeFri Jan 13 1989 13:4624
    
    	well, tom offered a nice explanation for do i dare say the
    "avant garde" definition of minimalism. However, the term has
    been used in a pop/rock context - as when John Lennon put out
    his 1st solo album - compared with excess of white album and
    abbey road productions it was noted as being quite minimalistic,
    if that can be considered an actual term.
    
    	I suspect your basic problem is one of not starting with
    a more simple bass track. I'm not sure the brain can cope
    well with the taking away - you will always hear the part you
    took away, and want to at least replace it with something. However,
    if you perhaps started with a more minimalist approach - simple
    rythms, some pedal tones (that would get you closer to toms definition)
    and stay away from the urge to layer more and more stuff in, you
    may come up with different results!
    
    	btw, and quite aside, it seems to me i saw something on the
    news or whatever was on the tube the other night about Mr. Janzens
    beloved Mobius - was it an ad? (Sorry, i was engrossed in Mr. Lewinsons
    book on the Beatles recording sessions at the time, and only caught
    the name and a brief picture).
    
    				bob
1860.4NAC::SCHUCHARDPC ArcadeFri Jan 13 1989 13:485
    
    oops - in the preceeding reply i meant base not bass. In otha words,
    start minimal, don't try to retreat!
    
    			bs
1860.5Do De MIDI In De Rub-a-Dub Style, MonBERING::ROSTJazz isn't dead, it just smells funnyFri Jan 13 1989 14:1818
    
    Sounds like what you want to do is similar to what is called "dub"
    in reggae.  I hear in modern funk stuff but I don't what they call
    it.
    
    Dub was originally a form where DJs would rap over records which
    they messed around with the way hip-hop DJs "scratch".  Later, it
    evolved into a complex studio style where the mixing engineer would
    take the basic tracks and mix them so instruments popped in and
    out of the mix, sudden echo effects would be added, etc.  The result
    was typically a rhythm track with little (if any) of the original
    melody remaining.  Then musicians starting working on creating the
    same effects live by just dropping their parts in and out at random.
    
    You can approximate such effects with any sequencer that allows
    you to mute tracks while the sequence plays.  
    
    Hope this helps some.
1860.6How obviousCGVAX2::COREY_JFri Jan 13 1989 14:184
    Thanx bob. How obvious! I tend to lay a foundation down by sequencing
    a progression of chords vs. notes. I'll try this tonite.
    
    jo citizen
1860.7it helpsCGVAX2::COREY_JFri Jan 13 1989 14:235
    RE .5
    
    Exactly my meaning. It does help. And thanx for understanding.
    
    jo citizen
1860.8STROKR::DEHAHNFri Jan 13 1989 17:149
    
    Dub mixes are just that...mixes of overdubs that were used to create
    the final product, usually with the rhythm track underneath. Whether 
    reggae, funk, Top40, club, house...whatever, they're still called dub 
    mixes. Sometimes producers get cute and call them other names but
    that's the general title.
    
    cdH