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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

1823.0. "Pingponging (bouncing) Tracks on Multi-track Tape Deck?" by KERNEL::FLOWERS (Hero of the Green Screen...) Tue Dec 20 1988 13:17

    
    
    Hello again,
    		I have had a question thrown my way 
    and to honest I don't have an answer for it.
    The question is....
    
    If I record a stereo sound on a multitrack recorder 
    so that left goes to track one and right goes to
    track two and I then bounce tracks one and two
    onto track three, does track three then play stereo
    or mono. ie. Will track three have audible panning
    (or what ever effect you have used) when mixed
    down to an ordinary audio cassette? 
    
    If the answer is no. How do they do this on audio
    cassettes you buy?

    Any Ideas??
    
    Jason
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1823.1no.PAULJ::HARRIMANBYOSGUTue Dec 20 1988 13:3825
    
    No. Track three would play MONO.
    
    How do they do it on commercial cassettes? They mix down to two
    tracks per side.
    
    I think the problem in understanding this in seeing the role of
    the mixer when mixing tracks. A mixer combines multiple sources
    into multiple, although less multiple results. Summation, if you
    will.
    
    This means that if I have two channels, panned left and right, and
    I mix them onto a single channel, it will be a summation of the
    left and right channels.
    
    Most audio cassettes are like CDs, records, or FM stereo radio,
    i.e. there is a distinct left and right channel. If you play a cassette
    on a mono playback deck, you get mono, but you get it because the
    two tracks on the cassette, which are adjacent to each other, are
    both read at the same time by the playback head, which is twice
    as wide as a stereo playback head (the actual pickup portion, I
    mean).
    
    Clear enough?
    
1823.2WEFXEM::COTESing with the clams, knave!Tue Dec 20 1988 13:538
    Re: .0
    
    Bear in mind that a stereo cassette actually has 4 tracks, 2 for
    each side...
    
    Run some Magna-see over a cassette and you can see for yourself...
    
    Edd
1823.3weebles wobble, but we don't bounce tracksANT::JACQUESTue Dec 20 1988 15:4223
    Professional recording studios don't bounce tracks. They use 
    anywhere from 24 tracks and up as high as 64 tracks (maybe more).
    All tracks remain first generation and then all the tracks are
    mixed down to a 2 track master. At this point they can place
    any voice in the stereo field exactly where they want them, 
    (centered, panned left/right, etc). They also generally record
    most tracks dry, and add effects only during mix-down. Many of
    the Digital effects processors create a stereo field of their
    own from mono input signals.
    
    Bouncing tracks is a trick used by people with limited tracks
    at their disposal (4/8 tracksters). When you get upwards of 16
    tracks it becomes less of a necessity. One way to get around the
    problems associated with limited tracks is to use midi time coding.
    This consists of creating a midi-synch track on one of the 4 tracks
    on your multi-tracker. During mix-down, this synch track runs all
    your synthesizers, drum machines, etc. so you are putting a first
    generation signal onto the 2-track master and are not tying up
    tracks on the multi-tracker for these instruments.
                     
    Mark
                                     
    
1823.4NRPUR::DEATONTue Dec 20 1988 17:106
RE < Note 1823.2 by WEFXEM::COTE "Sing with the clams, knave!" >

	What's magna-see?

	Dan

1823.5A real fun thing to have!!!!WEFXEM::COTESing with the clams, knave!Tue Dec 20 1988 17:165
    It's a very fine iron powder suspended in alcohol. Pour some on
    a tape, disc, MC/VISA or other magnetically encoded media and you
    can see the tracks, vectors, etc, when the alcohol evaporates...
    
    Edd
1823.6NRPUR::DEATONTue Dec 20 1988 17:286
RE < Note 1823.5 by WEFXEM::COTE "Sing with the clams, knave!" >

	Wouldn't that ruin what is recorded, though?

	Dan

1823.7Never had a failure....WEFXEM::COTESing with the clams, knave!Tue Dec 20 1988 17:3615
    So one would think...
    
    I used to use the stuff to prove to a vendor that they weren't
    writing ATM cards to ANSI specs regarding track placement. I'd
    dump it on my card, measure the distance twixt tracks, wipe it 
    off with a whatever_was_handy and then go withdraw $50 at the 
    nearest machine.
    
    I then got adventurous and put some on a cassette tape. After wiping
    it off, I played the tape and there was no audible difference.
    
    Unfortunately, you still can't make out the words to "Louie Louie"
    even with Magna-See...
    
    Edd
1823.8For entertainment only.BOLT::BAILEYConstants aren't. Variables don't.Tue Dec 20 1988 17:375
    Yes.
    
    It's fun to try on RK05 ``packs'' though.
    
    Steph
1823.9... and how much?NRPUR::DEATONTue Dec 20 1988 18:566
RE < Note 1823.7 by WEFXEM::COTE "Sing with the clams, knave!" >

	O.k., now, where can this stuff be bought?

	Dan

1823.10Ask and you find out...WEFXEM::COTESing with the clams, knave!Tue Dec 20 1988 19:159
    I have a can right here on my desk...
    
               Magna See
                    by SoundCraft, CBS Records
                    Coumbia Broadcasting System
                    Danbury, CT. 06810
    
    Edd