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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

1816.0. "Yamaha FB01 Distortion" by STKSMA::HALL (Take care of your MIDI) Fri Dec 16 1988 10:28

    I know there are lot's FB01 entries in this file but the info I
    need is not in those.
    
    Before I had my FB01 connected to a Y keyboard, then a Kawai K3.
    Just recently bought a Roland MKB200 master Controller and as before
    the FB01 is connected to this now.
    
    Problem:
    
    If I hit any key with high velocity, on most voices the FB01 is
    distorted in the attack phase. It appears to clip the audio signal
    in exactly the way any audio input will do when applying too high
    level to it. First thought was "aha, the mixer input is overdriven",
    but hooking up the FB to 2 other different amplifiers is not curing
    the problem. So it seems that the FB is clipping inside.
    
    However if I, from the front panel, reduce patch volume from 127 to 118 
    the distorsion goes away. I think that this probably will reduce
    the maximum signal level applied to the output buffer.
    
    Have anyone of you seen (heard) this before???
    
    Now, In the back of my head I have some info (maybe from reding
    this file) that tells me that some Yamaha equipment will not support
    velocity higer than some value (118 or so) and that their keyboards
    dont send velocity out with higer value than this.
    
    Can anyone comment this??
    
    Thanks for any input
    
    		Torbjorn
    
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1816.1I doubt that it's the box.DYO780::SCHAFERBrad - back in Ohio.Fri Dec 16 1988 12:2722
    The "118 limit" you're thinking of is the old DX7 keyboard itself,
    which was incapable of sending a velocity higher than 118, no matter
    how hard you hit it.  This is a limitation of the keyboard, not of the
    synthesizer itself.

    Does the FB01 distort on EVERY patch, or just some?  It's been my
    experience that *some* DX7 patches distort a bit when played from a
    keyboard that's capable of velocity values greater than 118.  It's
    possible that the patch is designed to distort. 

    Also, make sure that you're running line level in on the mixer with
    attenuation way back, and that you don't have a bad cord.  I've seen
    bad cords do this several times. 

    BTW - for those who remember the "why can't I get velocity out of my
    KX76" discussions, I found out last week that my problem is not the KX
    itself, but my stand.  The stand has enough bounce in it that I can't
    get over 109-118 out of the KX when it's mounted. When it sits on the
    edge of a stage or on a scissors stand, I have no trouble getting 127
    consistently.  For what it's worth.

-b
1816.2Slightly pertinent ESQ stuffCHUNK::PICKETTDavid - Beware of the dogmaFri Dec 16 1988 12:587
    FWIW this phenomenon (and lotsa of other auditory crap) can be heard on
    an ESQ-1. Scaling down the parameters a bit such as not to overload the
    intermediate VCAs should do the trick. The ESQ-1 sounds A LOT better is
    you run the DCAs at 75% of capacity, and let the final amp on the
    keyboad, and your PA do the work. 
    
    dp
1816.3That's a feature!!!DREGS::BLICKSTEINYo!Fri Dec 16 1988 14:4929
    re: .2
    
    Regarding the ESQ-1 distorting when the DFO's are run flat out.
    
    Believe it or not, this was a DELIBERATE feature.
    
    I mentioned this to Bob Stillman of Ensoniq, and he told me that
    the first ESQ-1 prototypes did not do this.  When they were trying
    to develop the very first patches for the thing, they wanted to
    get an overdrive sound for some patch or another and couldn't do
    it.
    
    They told the hardware engineers to design it such that a DCA level
    above 56 would overdrive the VCA's.  
    
    Bob recommends that when you are initially createing a patch, you start
    with the DCA's at 56.  He was such a nice guy that I didn't want to
    bug him about not being clear about that in the documentatiion.  I
    wasn't even sure whether it was indeed not documented (I don't
    remember reading about it).
    
    I think this is really neat.  Another example of Ensoniq's trait of
    understanding HOW their stuff will be using and designing the equipment
    for how it will be used.
    
    Anybody know of any other synths that do something like this
    (intentionally, that is)?
    
    	db
1816.4SALSA::MOELLERRichard Clayderman wannabeFri Dec 16 1988 15:0417
    < Note 1816.3 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Yo!" >
>    Anybody know of any other synths that do something like this

    Well, I'm not hip enough to the architecture to know how it's done,
    but the Kurzweil (K)1000(PX)' new ROM (no I don't have it yet but
    I played with it in the store) has a wonderful distorted 'honk'
    on the Rhodes sounds.
    
    Also, the EMAX has a digital volume parameter that directly affect
    the sample, not the output amplitude, that gives a great, linearly
    controllable distortion.  I was surprised, digital distortion is
    usually uncontrollable and sounds like loud static.  So I've used
    this on normally tame lead sounds, sax/guitar/Moog.. also the EMAX
    has a 'mono' mode that allows a patch, when played legato, to not
    trigger the attack..
    
    karl
1816.5RTFM?CTHULU::YERAZUNISI can add, test, and branch; therefore I am.Fri Dec 16 1988 17:2710
    Re: Ensoniq ESQ Overdrive sounds:
    
    Not only is it documented, it's even documented IN THE MANUAL, and
    it gives a chart like this (this is from memory) and an explanation.
    
    3 oscillators --> 56 or less                                        
    2 oscillators --> 59 or less
    1 oscillator  --> 61 or less