Conference napalm::commusic_v1

And they are darn ugly IMHO.  Daddy's in Nashua has the YS200 and the B200.
They've had them since end of October.

These look very unappealing aesthetically, I mean real ugly.  And the
price is ridiculous.

Chad

    re 1.: Ugly is in the mind of the beholder.  I played these things at
    Daddy's.  Y. has learned from the sales lost to D-50's; these
    instruments all come with a built-in reverb that is used on all the
    presets.  I don't think they are exactly pretty, but I really approve
    of the fact that they are different, and they make some attempt at a
    usable interface.  When I was at Daddy's, a Y-word rep. mentioned that
    the VS200 would be advertized on MTV.  The packaging really does look
    as if it were designed for the all-style/no substance crowd.  At least
    they have full-sized keys.
    
    	Eirikur
    

    I want my ... I want my ... I want my old TZ ...
    
    Steve

    
    Considering the Sam Ash blow-out prices, how programmable are these
    beasts?  A brand new YS-200 at under $500 could be worthwhile if it's
    close enough to a DX-11 in functionality.
    
    Anybody checked out a MIDI implementation chart on one of these?  Maybe
    it's time to take more than just a glance at these ugly boxes....
    
    							Brian
    					      Looking_for_cheap_aftertouch

       <<< Note 1806.4 by AQUA::ROST "Chickens don't take the day off" >>>
                              -< Time For A Look >-

I played these and talked to the Y-word rep. at the introduction at Daddy's in
Nashua.  They are essentially a TX81Z and a (REX-50?) effects unit in one
box with the keyboard.

I think that the -100 does not have aftertouch.

It would be a good idea to make sure the MIDI stuff wasn't messed-up for
these packages, though.

	Eirikur

    
    
    	U sure the YS-200 has aftertouch?.........Rich
    

    re: 1806.5, KALLON::EIRIKUR, ...good idea to make sure the MIDI
    stuff wasn't messed-up......
    
    I have a DX-11 (which has aftertouch), and am curious (being new
    to all this) what you meant by "messed up" -- or perhaps another
    way to say this... what do I want to look for in my "next" MIDI
    box so I do not repeat any inadvertant mistakes found in this one....
     Thanks!

What I meant about the MIDI implementation in these home-oriented, non
professional keyboards being sometimes "messed-up" (took time to choose those
words, too!) was that sometimes the MIDI features are reduced or eliminated for
cost reasons or perhaps even marketing reasons.  The DX-11 is a pro-market unit
and I would expect it to have a full TX81Z MIDI implementation.  I am not at
all certain that you get that full set of MIDI features in one of these YS?00
keyboards.

	Eirikur

RE < Note 1806.6 by HAMER::COCCOLI >

>    	U sure the YS-200 has aftertouch?.........Rich
    
	Yes, it does.  (I have a flyer on the two YS instruments here in my
files).

	Dan

    
    	I just got back from putting a YS-200 through inspection at
    Sam Ash with cash in pocket. The cash is still in pocket. I was
    pretty dissapointed.
    
    1) Cards are NOT AVAILABLE.....at least not at any Sam Ash outlet
    2) Can't save multi-timbral setups EXCEPT to card.
    3) Cheesy feeling keyboard.
    4) It's got effects, but it ain't even a REX-50.
    
       Midi implementation is pretty thorough. Less harse FM sound from
    the presets, and the UI is very friendly.
    Creating a sound is a matter of four or five parameters. 
                                
    I think I'll keep my TX81Z a while.............Rich
    
    

	Well, I just got my new YS200 from Sam Ash last Friday night to replace
the DX100.  I have a few comments on it to share, some based on comments here, 
some from my own observation/research.

	It was mentioned in the base note that it would be just as well to go 
and buy a TX81Z and an MC500.  Well, you actually get quite a lot more than
that, and quite a bit less at the same time.

	Regarding the YS200's internal sound module, it is *almost* a TX81Z.  It
is nearly identical in its sound-building structure and patches can go back and 
forth to and from it and a TZ without any change in sound quality.  The only
thing that is curiously missing from the YS's internal voicing is that it
doesn't use portamento.  You can actually STORE that you want "Full Time 
Portamento" or "Fingered Portamento", but it will not store or understand any 
value for "Portamento Time", thus always using the fastest portamento rate (in
other words, no portamento).

	One thing I will also miss from my DX100 is the ability to choose how
it will respond to pitch bend (i.e., only lowest note bends, only highest note 
bends, all notes bend).  But looking in my TZ manual, I don't see that it
had that feature either (I'd love to hear someone tell me otherwise, though).

	What you *do* get, though, is a digital effects processor.  It is fairly
similar to an REX50 with some subtractions.  It has three kinds of reverb (hall,
room and gated), each with adjustable time and balance, some digital delays
(one slap-back type, one panning type and another normal type), again, each with
adjustable time and balance.  Finally, you have a distortion with reverb and 
distortion with delay settings.  The distortion cannot be altered, and the 
controls only change the room size or delay rate, but its nice having that there
on a synth.  There are no "pitch shifting" or modulated delays (like 
chorus/flange) settings, though.

	While you can set up a "multi-voice" setting, as one might suspect on an
instrument at this price range, you still only get one effect to cover all (up 
to) eight voices.  You can set this globally, but it will be applied equally to
all voices (based on the balance parameter).  It would have been nice to have
each voice retain its programmed effect, but I'm sure the cost would have just 
shot right up with that option.

	Its internal sequencer will hold 10,000 events.  In the real world, of 
course, using velocity and aftertouch, etc., that number goes down rapidly.  
Still, it might prove a nice scetch-pad when you don't want to carry the whole 
system along.  It uses eight tracks and has the basic edit funtions.  I haven't
delved much into them yet.  It appears that the closest thing to event editing
you get is the ability to erase a single note.  But it will only go down to
32nd note intervals for the erase note function, so if you're playing any faster
than that (hah! - with my chops?), all notes within that 32nd note range will go
at the same time.  No problem - that's what I have my MC500 for.

	Like every other Pro keyboard I've seen from Yamaha, they give you 
absolute control over everything via sysex (I wish Roland would learn from 
this!).  You can send SysEx to have it do anything, right down to pushing a 
button!  That is one of the main reasons I prefer Yamaha keyboards as my synth
keyboard controller (I use two, one "piano-type" - my Roland RD200 - which I 
like for its light piano action, and one for all synth sounds).

	You get 100 preset voices and 100 internal RAM voices.  A RAM card adds
another 100 or can be used to store one (count it - one) sequence.  I probably 
won't use the cards because for the price (Sam Ash wants $60 each), you don't 
get a lot of bang.  That's what computors and data cassettes are for (the YS 
does not store to cassette, but will transmit across midi all its internal 
memory).  The Multi-Mode settings (you only get one) *may* be saved across power
cycles, but I haven't confirmed it yet.  Since I've already begun setting these 
up via system exclusives, I'm not concerned.

	The sounds that come with it are quite good!  Whatever 4-op synthesis
may lack in fullness gets fixed by digital effects.  A little "Hall Reverb" goes
a long way here.  While there are some factory patch dogs (as always), there are
quite a few patches in here that do things I've never heard FM synthesis do (or 
do well).  I'd say there could be as high as 50% usability in the factory 
presets (and from all the sounds I've heard, that's pretty good).  This is the 
first time I've heard a real good FM string patch that gives analog a run for 
the money.  And not since I owned a sampler have I heard a decent "Applause" 
patch, but this one comes *real* close.  

	The keyboard feel is just right for my needs - a synth type light feel.
Aftertouch does not need a heavy push.  This is my first time really delving
into aftertouch and I like the way it responds.  Most Roland keyboards I've 
tried using aftertouch with (JX8P, Alpha Juno 2, MKB-200) were far too difficult
to use.  The keys have just a little resistance, enough to feel right for me.
The physical design of the keyboard (one noter thought it was ugly) is not quite
Pro-oriented, but its not really consumer-looking either.  I don't have a 
problem with it, in any case.

	All in all, the YS200 is a trade-off.  It is exactly what I was looking 
for - a full-size keyboard with velocity, aftertouch, PB, MW and breath 
controller - and it has some pleasant extras - like eight-voice multi-timbral,
built-in digital effects and sequencer.  The trade-off, though, is that all 
these extras don't work best being used at the same time (i.e., you don't get
the full advantage of the digital effects while in multi-timbral-mode), but
extras are just that, extra.

	Dan

    Sorry, the TZ doesn't support those absolutely wunnaful alternative
    PB schemes... would that they did!!!
    
    How much be this beast???
    
    Can you post a list of the presets??? Can I come up and copy them all??
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

RE < Note 1806.12 by WEFXEM::COTE "Call *who* Ishmael???" >

	Yeah, I kinda suspected it didn't.  I couldn't find it in the SysEx 
listing in the back of the manual.  

	Sam Ash is selling the YS200 for $429.  Only about a grand below list.

	Regarding presets, I'm willing to write out the preset names (all 100 of
them?!?) but in many cases I don't know how useful or descriptive the names are
(do you know what "Swirlies" sounds like?).  It would take some time for me to 
write them out and provide any basic descriptions.  Stay tuned.
	
	I'd be glad to make them available for Sysex dump, though.  Call 
whenever you want to come get 'em.  (I wonder if they'll sound o.k. without the
internal digital effects?)

	Dan

	Just thought of this...

	The TZ -> YS200 comparison has one other breakdown.  While the YS does
have a performance mode similar to the TZ, it is somewhat shaved down.  It 
doesn't have things like the three MIDI effects (pan, delay, single note chord),
nor does it have a micro-tuning table.  I have never used these so it is a moot
point for me.

	Dan

	I discovered something else about my YS200 in terms of onboard FX...

	You have the option to add digital reverb, delay, distortion and delay,
etc.  Well, the delays are not signal processing delays (like you'd have with 
an add-on box on the synth's output).  Rather, it is a MIDI delay that steals
voices from the synth (actually, its the same as what you get on a TX81Z's
effect section - except that it won't transpose the delay to intervals like the 
TZ will).

	I'm not bothered by it at this point because I doubt this, uh, feature
will haunt me in terms of how I'm using this synth (for that matter, I kind of
doubt I'd ever even USE a delay).  But it strikes me as interesting how Yamaha
implemented it without letting on the hidden "cost" (of a voice or two).

	Dan

RE YS200's delay effects...

	Slight correction to be made here.  I found that only the "slap-back"
type delays are voice-stealing.  They also have signal-processed delays that
are in the audio (as opposed to MIDI) signal path.

	Dan

    
    So why don't they do the slapbacks with the audio processor, then?