Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    If it's the thing I think it is its essentially this:
    
    Take a speaker (capable of handling the watts you put through your
    guitar amp) cover it with a funnel (glued in place etc.), run a hose
    from the funnel to your mouth, run your guitar amp into this speaker.
    Put the hose in your mouth, play guitar notes and mouth the appropriate
    words into a microphone that runs into your PA. Also cleans your
    teeth :-)
    
    Joe Walsh and Peter Frampton, among others, used these alot ten
    years or so ago. Check out Walsh's "Rocky Mountian Way" or Frampton's
    solo work after leaving Frampton's camel (the names of these works
    escape me at this time, was never a big PF fan, I do know that on
    his "alive" album you can hear some of the voice box or talk box)
    
    PAIA used to have a kit for one.
    
    dbII

    
    
    ....or it could have been a vocoder
    
    ralph
    
    

    Not knowing the first thing about "Scritti Politti" (who?), I'll guess
    that they're using some type of a vocal processor.  Korg had one a few
    years back called a DVP-1 ... there are a couple pro-end units that do
    the kinds of things you mentioned in .0.  Can't remember any names
    right now, though. 

-b

    
    
    I'm not too sure on the exact process, but a vocoder uses the signals
    from singing into a mic to control the various VCF parameters of
    a synth, hence the synth sounds take on the shape of someone
    speaking or singing.  
    
    Can someone please explain this a little better?
    
    Ralph
    
    

    RE:.2  What's a vocoder?
    
    RE:.3  Scritti Politti:  It's dancy-pop sorta stuff.  The lead singer's
           kind of effeminate, but oh well, you find a lot of that in
           dancy-pop music anyway.

    maybe they're using a vocal synthesizer.  A guitarist played
    a vocal synthesizer at new music america in about 1982, so it's
    about time for pop to catch up.  ok, it was a speak&spel modified
    to accept a pitch from a guitar.
    
    a vocoder is a voice encoder (?) first  built around 1940 by bell
    labs (now at&T bell labs cf. unix).  PAiA has a cheap kit for just
    the processor, but vocoders for pop in the 70's had their
    own keyboards.  I think laurie anderson used one like this in 
    o superman.  A vocoder can be used to impress your vocal
    resonances and vowels onto any sound rich enough to reflect it.
    The PAiA vocoder has some (probably 8) hi-Q band-pass filters
    over a range of maybe 500-2000 hertz (the vowel harmonic range,
    the harmonics that change when vowels change).  An envelope
    follower follows each filter.  We now have 8 voltages giving
    the amplitude of the sound in each frequency band.
    These voltages drive voltage-controlled amplifiers.  The audio
    signal going into the VCAs can be anything.  Something rich like
    a pulse tone or sawtooth is best.
    
    When driven with a narrow pulse tone ca. 200 hertz, and fed a
    professional announcer on FM radio, the PAiA vocoder will be
    undertandable 90% of the time (with no through).  THe kit is 99$.
    It is hard to adjust for my voice and my synth.  Anderson was
    right to use mostly octaves and open fifths into the vocoder.
    If all you want is to gate sounds, get a gate, or a VCA and an
    envelope follower, but that's almost as much with a power supply.
    Tom

    I forgot to add that the tone source (e.g. a synth) also has
    to be broken out by a bank of bandpassfilters.
    then at the end they're all mixed together.
    Tom

    
    I have the album, and it definatly is a voice box.
    (speaker driver connected to tube, which plays into ones miked mouth)
    In fact on the song "Boom there she was" you can hear the 
    voiceboxed synth mixed with the actual spoken (with tube in mouth)
    voice mixed in. A vocoder generally cant deal with sillibance
    or hard consonsence like a voxbox. Vocoders usually have a knob
    for mixing in the raw sound with the vocoded sounds
    

    Here I was, thinking that this was some type of state-of-the-art
    technical gagetry, but it's just a tube attached to a speaker? 
    I think I wanna try this!
    
    One question, though... how can you enunciate with a tube
    in your mouth.  8-/
    
    Jim

    You don't! 
    
    Instead, drill a 1/4" hole thru one cheek, thread the hole to take
    a 1/8 NPT pipe, and attach the tube to the pipe.
    
    	:-)
    	
    		-Bill

    Insure your dental work before attempting the gobbox tactic.
    Also, tonsils (if you have them) take a bruising when you crank
    up the volume.
    
    Richard.

    You don't actually speak, all the sound is from your guitar (I suppose
    you could drive this via a synth) you merely shape it using you
    mouth. I tried one once, they're a bit tricky and without the PA
    to pick it up and amplify it it's not much to hear, caution: at
    high volume levels your hearing gets blasted from the inside of
    your head...
    
    good luck
    
    dbII 

    Why not just run a couple of tubes up your nose?  With a little
    work, you might be able to get them to rest comfortably just above
    your epiglottis, allowing the sounds to be more natural.  A compromise
    would be to run just one tube, so that (unless you have a cold)
    you can breathe freely.
    
    ;^)
    
    Steve

    I think I'll take the two-tube deal.  Ya see, when it comes to sound
    quality, even breath and life are a fair sacrifice...

    re: .14
    
    Where d'you suggest he stick the single-tube option?
    
    Richard.
    

    OK, I wanna do this, but I don't want to sacrifice my hearing, dental
    work, or sanity.  Anybody know an alternative, or should I just
    keep the volume down?
    
    -- Ever questioning,
       Jim

    The best way I've found is to avoid using a speaker.  Just take
    a horn driver, and stick some plastic in there.  Seal it with silicone
    and then get progressively smaller plastic until it's about 1/2
    inch diameter, and stick that in the back side of yer mouth.
    
    Or for a cheap copy, use a fish tank pump.
    
    Don't ask me how I know this.
    
    Ashley

    
    	As an alternative, locate and old Mutron III or Electro-Harmonix
    	Doctor Q. Use a mic as a source, and you can scat sing.  I used
    	to do this a long time ago - it was a great effect.
    
    	Guy Novello
    

    Or build a vocoder...
    
    which may cost a few bucks but heck, that's the name of this hobby.
    
    ...Isn't it ?    :-)
    
       
    	-Bill

    re: .7
    
    > maybe they're using a vocal synthesizer.  A guitarist played
    > a vocal synthesizer at new music america in about 1982, so it's
    > about time for pop to catch up.  ok, it was a speak&spel modified
    > to accept a pitch from a guitar.
    
    Catch up.  Hardly.
    
    The first vocodor type device I ever saw used was by a pop band
    (The Good Rats) in the late seventies.  They even used it on an
    album.
    
    The first guitar-controlling-synth device I ever saw used was in 1975
    by Steve Morse.  It was made by 360 Systems.  Steve used it on an
    album too.
    
    Now although these are the first uses I know of, I doubt they were
    the "first uses" because in both cases, the devices being used were
    commercially available devices.  During this time I was beginning
    my "awakening" (expanding my musical horizons beyond classical)
    and thus for all I know, these device had been available for years.
    
    This ground-breaking guitar player that Tom mentions could have saved
    himself a lot of trouble, and perhaps focused his attention on
    something that really was new by venturing into his neighborhood
    music store every so often.   ;-)
    
    	db

    >< Note 1626.22 by DREGS::BLICKSTEIN "Yo!" >
>                    -< One good elbow leads to another ;-) >-
>
>    re: .7
>    
>    > maybe they're using a vocal synthesizer.  A guitarist played
>    > a vocal synthesizer at new music america in about 1982, so it's
>    > about time for pop to catch up.  ok, it was a speak&spel modified
>    > to accept a pitch from a guitar.
>    
>    Catch up.  Hardly.
>    
>    The first vocodor type device I ever saw used was by a pop band
>    (The Good Rats) in the late seventies.  They even used it on an
>    album.
The speak and spel is not a vocoder.  It speaks.  It synthesizes speech.
    When this guy played guitar, the speak and spel SANG WORDS on its
    own, not just modifying a synth with stupid looking plastic tube
    in the guy's mouth like some adult pacifier or drool catcher.
    
    >>    
>    The first guitar-controlling-synth device I ever saw used was in 1975
>    by Steve Morse.  It was made by 360 Systems.  Steve used it on an
>    album too.
    2 cents says it wasn't singing words.  the speak and spel did. In
    '82 it was the cheapest way to do it.
>    
>    Now although these are the first uses I know of, I doubt they were
>    the "first uses" because in both cases, the devices being used were
>    commercially available devices.  During this time I was beginning
>    my "awakening" (expanding my musical horizons beyond classical)
>    and thus for all I know, these device had been available for years.
>    
    the vocoder is 45-50 years old.
>    This ground-breaking guitar player that Tom mentions could have saved
>    himself a lot of trouble, and perhaps focused his attention on
>    something that really was new by venturing into his neighborhood
>    music store every so often.   ;-)
if you want to know what will be in the stores in 1993, read the
    MIT computer music journal.    
>    	db>
Tom

    By "Speak and spel" you're not referring to that Texas Instruments
    toy are you?
    
    Jim 

    hey man, it works, it's cheap, and when did you hear a computer
    under $100 dollars sing before 1982?
    Tom

    
    
    The voice box sound on the "provision" album is not done by Scritti
    Politti but by a guy called Roger Troughtman sp? 
    I have one of his previous albums on which he uses it extensively ,he
    had a minor hit over here about six moths ago under the name of
    just "Roger" .The song was called something like "I just wanna
    be you man" and the vocals were all voice box.
    I remember reading someplace that this guy "developed" this voice
    box himself and likes to keep it's exact operation a bit of a secret.
    But I wouldn't be suprised if it was the speaker & hose configuration.
    
    His album is very good (Can't remember the name at the moment) .
    If you like this sound you should listen to it for much better 
    use of the voice box than the Scritti Politti album.
    
    Steve.. 
    

    
    Before he was a solo artist he was with a band called "Zapp" which had
    a few hits, one I can think of was "Computer Love". Every song used the
    'voice box' on some of the vocals.
    
    CdH
    
    

    A somewhat more accessible vocoder reference is Neil Young's Trans
    album.  I think he vocodes Nils Lofgren's guitar as well as his
    own.  The video of the same period shows it in use.
    
    This is for those who find "Trans" easier to stand than Laurie
    Anderson.  I don't know which I'd take, and I hope I never have
    to choose....
    
    						-Jeff
    

    Computer World by Kraftwork used a speak and spell...
    
    I had one when I was a little smaller and I would jam with the tape
    all the time.  
    
    To avoid getting your lips vibrated off by the voice box maybe one
    could sample the source and replay it on que.  Just a sugestion.
    
    There was a guitarest who used some kind of modualtor on stage all
    the time several years ago.  A song called "Do you feel like I do"
    by a guy I don't know come to mind.  He would mouth the words and
    articulate using his tounge and lips and the quitare struck at the
    right moment would make the appearence of a talking guitar.  wow.
    
                    \                                              
                    (\__^                                          
                     < <
    
    --Nick
    

    Re: Kraftwerk
    
    Then they graduated to a DECtalk...
    
    Steph

    re .29

    That was Peter Frampton on the 'Frampton Comes Alive' album. The
    more famous track (here in the U.K.) was 'Show me the way'. The
    other guitarist in a band I was in way back used to play the solo
    using a wah-wah pedal but with a 12" piece of tube taped to the
    mike stand - it fooled the audience most of the time :-) :-)

    By the way, the Pet Shop Boys 'Two divided by zero' track uses
    a sampled 'Speak and Maths' (was this a 'Speak and Math' in the 
    U.S. ??)

    Cheers,

    Derek.

    Re: .29...
    
    \
    (\__^
     < <
    
    What the heck is that?!?

    re: .29  Incidently, Peter Frampton did not use that effect "all the
    time" as you mentioned.  In fact, he used it quite rarely. That song
    just happened to become monsterously popular, where most of his music
    didn't, and he became known for it.  Like Joe Walsh, I don't think he
    used the talk box that much either, but he's famous for it.  He
    used a Wah a lot more.
    
    No flames intended, just a point of interest. 
    
    gh

    
    re:.32
    
    It can be anything you want it to be.  To me it resembles a Unicorn.
    
    --Nick

	If I'm hearing correctly, Robert Plant uses some sort of voice box
hooked up to a heavily distorted guitar in "Walking Towards Paradise" from
his new album Now and Zen.  I don't think it uses that tube-stuff, though,
even though I haven't heard one; it sounds like some sophisticated filter-
driven articulation processor.  It isn't really too understandable until 
you hear the real lyrics and make the connection.  BTW, this is an excellent
full digital CD and I happen to like his music a lot.  If you do, be sure to
get this CD!

--mike--

    If you've got love in your sights, watch out, love bites...
    
    
    You have to listen closely for that one.
    

re .32 

Looks like a scorpion to me.

    RE.32      
    
    
    
    	Looks like a baby carriage to me.
    
    

RE: -1 

	You too?  I thought it looked like a baby carriage at first but
	I thought I was the only one... so I didn't say anything.

	- Jim (Sorry Mr. K)

    
    Heil sound had an advert in some Guitar magazine last month stating
    that they would reintroduce the talk box this month.
    
    1989-January 4,  Billboard Magazine...
    "Rocky Mountain Way crushes Do You Feel Like I Do for number one
    slot on pop chart.  Joe Walsh credits Heil Sound for Platinum single".
    
    
    
    
    Well, maybe not....
    
    Ashley