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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

1518.0. "Self-playing patches - Sound Sculpture" by MIDEVL::YERAZUNIS (One Gun, One Bullet, One Foot) Thu Jul 07 1988 14:06

    Lately I've been playing with patches that play themselves.  This
    is different from most "musically useful" patching.  Often, these
    self-playing patches don't even look at the keyboard.         
    
    The challenge in these self-playing patches is coming up with an
    interconnection pattern that is sufficiently stable that the ear
    recognizes it as tone, but sufficiently unstable that it does not
    become boring within a few seconds.
    
    Eirikur Hallgrimsson calls these self-playing patches "sound
    sculpture",  to differentiate them from noise or controlled music.
                                 
    
    	1) Anybody have any good sound-sculpture patches to share?
    
    	2) Is sound sculpture "musically valid" on COMMUSIC tapes? 
    
    Commentary?
                                 
    (and yes, I agree that there's an "Eliza Effect"; the ear imposes order
    and the mind percieves a higher level of organization than actually
    exists.) 
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1518.1Post an overview of your "Counterpoint" patch, Bill.DSSDEV::HALLGRIMSSONEirikur, CDA Product ManagerThu Jul 07 1988 14:3511
    The really classical example that I recall was called "Entropical
    Paradise."  Morton Subotnik?  I've actually forgotten if I really heard
    the piece (just a recording of the patch running).  Anyway, it used
    most of the resources in a very large modular Moog to make the sounds
    of a tropical jungle.  I decided to give it a try at one point when I
    was in college and I did get at least some fairly nice random
    bird-calls and insect-like sounds out of my very limited PAIA modular
    system. 
    
    	Eirikur
    
1518.2I'll bite ...MIZZOU::SHERMANincompetence knows no boundsThu Jul 07 1988 14:3818
    
>    	2) Is sound sculpture "musically valid" on COMMUSIC tapes? 
    
	What isn't? ;-)

	Actually, it might be interesting to have little sections of sound 
        sculpture on the next Commusic tape just for kicks.  I've
	stumbled into these every once in a while.  For example, while I
	was playing around with my TZ trying to get something that sounded
	like a gong, I wound up playing around with sounds that rose to a
	shimmer and then did some wild things over a long period of time.
	With the operators, waveforms and long envelopes available, the 
	TZ seems especially suited to sound sculpture.  I would imagine
        that the CZ would also be well suited for this.  
    
        Neat idea!

	Steve
1518.3SALSA::MOELLERYou CAN 'push the river' !Thu Jul 07 1988 16:4312
    I got an Emax flop with some pan pipes and one Digeridoo sample.
    A Digeridoo is an Aboriginal woodwind that they play using circular
    breathing.. for a LONG time.  Well, the sample was of a middle 'C'
    and very smooth.  Too smooth.  I lowered it a fourth and began playing
    with the loop points until it got a very definite rhythm.
    
    Then I set it playing, functioning as a pedal-point drone AND rhythm
    element, and improvised a wonderful piece around it using the Kurzweil
    piano and various string/choral patches.  I call it 'Ascending Ayers
    Rock'.  Unless better pieces come along it'll be on Commusic VI.
    
    karl
1518.4ARP Odessy self playing patchesYES::CLARYThis is not a dark ride.Thu Jul 07 1988 16:438
	Many years ago a friend of mine had an ARP Oddesy, and we used to 
	be able to create self playing patches on it, but I could swear 
	that they had a repeating structure to them.  Also I can't 
	remember at all what parameters (I know very little about synths 
	now, but knew nothing about synths then) caused this effect but I 
	do remember that it was easy to make the ARP do it.

	Bob
1518.5And they say synths won't replace people? Hogwash!AKOV88::EATONDWhere d' heck a' we!Thu Jul 07 1988 16:530
1518.6Yes, it's possible on an Odyssey...LOLITA::DIORIOThu Jul 07 1988 17:039
    re .4
    
    Your friend most likely had a sample and hold pattern going, controlled
     by the LFO. I had an Odyssey and used to do that all the time (back
    in '73)! It was cool then--nay cosmic! But personally, I don't think
    I'd have much use for it now.  
    
    
    Mike D
1518.7I *did* sell mine, didn't I? {sigh}DYO780::SCHAFERBrad - DTN 433-2408Thu Jul 07 1988 17:1012
RE: .4

    If you have a synth with gain and controllable s/h (sample/hold)
    features (like the Oddity does), then it's easy to make the kind of
    patch Bob talked about. 

    I did a similar thing with an Arp Axxe where I used s/h to open the
    filter using very slow a/r (attack/release) settings and used a white
    noise generator.  Sounded just like a surf, complete with waves hitting
    the beach and all.  And all done with a single oscillator. 

-b
1518.8Argh! Race condition, and same school, no less.DYO780::SCHAFERBrad - DTN 433-2408Thu Jul 07 1988 17:110
1518.9For COMMUSIC VI Maybe?DRUMS::FEHSKENSThu Jul 07 1988 17:195
    I have a little ditty in the works called "Night Shift at the Synth
    Factory" based on the multisample loops in the D-550...
    
    len.
     
1518.10Looks like this may be the next New Wave!COERCE::YERAZUNISWhere do those things come from, anyway?Thu Jul 07 1988 19:057
    Sounds like "sound sculptures", rather than songs, are going to be
    the big thing on COMMUSIC VI.  Doesn't bother me a bit.  I like
    it that way.
    
    Ahh, the vagarities of popular culture.  :-)
                
    	-Bill            
1518.11It's a flash trend!DSSDEV::HALLGRIMSSONEirikur, CDA Product ManagerThu Jul 07 1988 20:006
    Damn, I've blown my chance to be a trend setter.  I suppose my
    "Brownian Stasis" will be packed in with the rabble :-) on Commusic
    VI.
    
    	Eirikur
    
1518.12ModerationDREGS::BLICKSTEINYo!Thu Jul 07 1988 20:1314
    I was thinking of putting the HR-16 demo on the tape to fill
    space at the end.
    
    Regarding having this kind of stuff on the tape, I like to avoid
    setting rules about "content" on Commusic tapes, so it's up to
    you guys.
    
    My own personal opinion is that mostly I want to hear music, so
    I guess what that boils down to is that a few minutes of this
    here and there is fine with me.  I'd like to keep the tapes
    as "listenable" as possible.  Sound sculpture-type patches would
    becoming boring for me if they went on too long.
    
    	db
1518.13PLDVAX::JANZENTom 296-5421 LMO2/O23Fri Jul 08 1988 00:232
    I get crickets on Synthia on the Amiga.
    Tom