Conference napalm::commusic_v1

See notes 1064.71   1064.73   1064.75 for further Alesis HR16 info.

dave

    If Jeff showed you how to get the names of the H/W, S/W and Sample
    engineers outta the HR it's because I showed him how to do it 
    Saturday morning! I posted the names here a few months ago...
    
    Running the unit outta RAM also results in a typical SoCal response.
    
    I also told him about my inability to sync *any* HR to *any* sequencer.
    Surprisingly, NOBODY seems to give a damn. When I spoke to Alesis,
    their reaction was only to say "oh?".
    
    The HR16 is the only machine I love and hate at the same time.
    
    Edd

RE: .2

    What exactly do mean by "can't sync to any sequencer"?  I've had mine
    synced to a couple different units with nary a problem.  ???  What's
    the deal?

    One *REAL* strange thing I have seen, though.  If I'm in pattern mode
    and do a "patch change" command in midstream, the change does not take
    effect until I hit STOP on the sequencer.  You seen that one, Edd? 

-b

    My HR-16 syncs via MIDI to my ESQ-1 sequencer just fine.
             
    The only crazyness is when you halt the HR-16 but not the ESQ.
    
    	-Bill

    Oooops sorry, I was ambiguous. It'll sync OK, but every unit I've
    tried will *NOT* step time properly when receiving clock from 
    an outside source. The details are in the other HR note, but
    basically the unit picks up an offset of some PPQ and then steps
    ahead by the quantize unit from there, making it it damn near 
    impossible to hit a beat.
    
    Never noticed the other problem tho...
    
    Edd

             <<< NOVA::$111$DUA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;1 >>>
                        -<   **  Computer Music  **   >-
================================================================================
Note 1064.237                    HR-16...price?                       237 of 317
JAWS::COTE "Hey! You seen my datums?"                44 lines  14-MAR-1988 08:12
                 -< I DON'T HAVE BUGS! (Software rev. V 1.06) >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Kudos to Butch Leitz and Len Fehskens for helping me track down
    my previously stated 'problems' with my HR-16.
    
    1. The hum. The HR-16 is quiet as a churchmouse. The hum I heard
       came from my MIDIVerb. Slap me for being stupid on this one.
    
    2. The clock problem. This one is REAL, and it's not my machine.
       Butch's exhibit the same phenomena on my network and mine exhibited
       the same on len's.
    
       It goes like this...
    
       Define a pattern of n beats. (Let's say 4 for conversation's
       sake.) Also define a quantization factor; let's use 8th notes.
       Connect MIDI in on the HR to MIDI out on another clocking device.
       (I used a QX-7, an RX-21 and an MC-500.) Now step through the
       empty pattern. Each step will put you right where you'd expect
       to be; on beat+0/96 or beat+48/96. No problem so far. Now enter
       a four on the floor kick drum. 1+0/96, 2+0/96, 3+0/96 & 4+0/96.
       Step through the pattern with 1 voice in it and you'll still
       be on the proper quantums. Now try entering a snare on 2+0/96
       and 4+0/96. This will work also. Now is when the problem starts.
       Try stepping through the pattern. You'll start on 1+0/96, but
       the machine immediately picks up an offset on n/96!! 20/96 
       happens often on mine. Stepping through on 8ths lands me at
       1+0/96, 1+68/96, 2+20/96, 2+68/96...4+68/96 and back to 1+0/96
       where it often picks up a new offset and starts over again.
       Offsets on mine have ranged from 4/96 up to 38/96 with some 
       fractions weighted more heavily than others.
    
       Swapping power supplies didn't make a difference. Neither did
       moving the HR closer to the clock source. (My HR is located 4
       'nodes' away from the QX.) The only thing that made ANY differnce
       was the presence of the external clock.
    
       Oddly enough, this only manifests itself during step-time
       programming. In run mode, the HR syncs perfectly to the external
       clock.
    
       All failures were identical and always repeatable.
    
       Edd
    
       P.S. You should hear my patterns to Steely Dan's "Do It Again"!!!

    Well, since no one's seen it, would one of you with an HR be willing to
    give this a go? 

	1. Set the HR to pattern mode (as opposed to song)
	2. Record a garbage sequence in the unit of your choice
	3. In the middle of the sequence, issue a patch change
	    command to the HR's receiving channel

    Does the HR change patterns?  I'd be real interested in finding out,
    because mine does NOT.  If it doesn't I'd call it a major bug and am
    gonna write some nasty letters. 

    Please.  Someone volunteer.

-b

    
    I *vaguely* remember a S/W switch that had something to do with
    this...
    
    But I'll give it a whirl tonite...
    
    Edd

    You specifically have to enable that.  It's one of the questions
    on the MIDI/UTIL button.
    
    I'll try and remember too.
    

    Wait, guys.

    I *KNOW* the switch is there.  I have it turned on (at least I thought
    I did).  The problem is NOT that it DOESN'T change ... the problem is
    WHEN it changes.  The pattern does not change to the selected pattern
    UNTIL the sequence is STOPPED. 

    In other words, it does not change when it's supposed to.  If I had it
    turned off, the thing should not change at all.  Not whining - I
    just want to make sure you're looking for the same thing that I'm
    seeing.

-b

    I had similar dreams for the use of my HR.   The fact is, that it
    will only change patterns through MIDI when the HR is in STOP mode.
    In other words, you can NOT switch patterns (or kits) if you're
    planning on using the internal sequencer via MIDI.   If you're using an
    external sequencer, just set the UTIL to receive pattern change info and
    forget about the internal sequencer.  Mine works this way.
    
    							Scott.

    I am not using the internal sequencer in the box at all.  I am driving
    everything from my Atari ST.  Are you saying that I need to set MIDI
    PGM CHANGE to ON and MIDI START/STOP (or whatever it's called) to OFF? 

    That's a real flipping stupid way to have to work.

{grumble}

    
    re: .-1
    
      That's how I do it. Otherwise the damn thing goes into RUN everytime
    I start a sequence in the Atari. 
    
      Yup, it's kinda-painful-to-the-tuckus.
    
    /pjh

RE: Scott, PJ

    Not what I wanted to hear, but thanks.  {grumble} 

    We should get a list of gripes together and submit a formal letter from
    DECMS to Alesis requesting that they fix them.  Is this a proper thing
    for DECMS to get involved in?  I can't imagine actually being *heard*
    by some manufacturer.

-b who_is_quite_chagrined_at_the_moment

    One thing to be aware of when using the HR-16 with a sequencer is that
    the keypad response parameter ALSO affects how it responds to MIDI
    velocity.  That means that if it sounds different played back from
    a synth, it may be that the keypad response is set DIFFERENTLY than
    when the pattern was programmed.
    
    And for whatever it's worth, I still say that the QX7 emitting a
    constant clock signal is a bad idea, if not a bug.  Does it do it
    even when your editing in step mode?  On my ESQ-1 I can edit a sequence
    in step mode, and the HR-16 follows along as one would expect.  I'd
    imagine that that wouldn't work with the QX7 if it's constantly
    emitting clock signals.
    
    But we've already debated that.  Let's just say I'm glad mine doesn't
    do that.
    
    	db

    
    re: db
    
      Yeah, I'm getting bit by that too. I'm really getting a hard lesson
    in standard setting - I have to make sure that no global parameters
    get reset in the HR-16, or else I have to rescale the velocity in
    the Atari. Can't save simple instrument assignments in the HR-16
    unless you make a pattern, since it forgets those when you power
    off. Disassociating the onboard sequencer from the rest of the
    functions is more than I bargained for.
    
      And consistency is boring.
    
      /pjh

Brad -

>We should get a list of gripes together and submit a formal letter from
>DECMS to Alesis requesting that they fix them.  Is this a proper thing
>for DECMS to get involved in?  I can't imagine actually being *heard*
>by some manufacturer.

Yes, this is a proper thing for us to do. As I mentioned in the base note,
I was talking directly to the OWNER of Alesis, T.J. long distance on the
phone at Union Music. He was very interested in the feedback I gave him.
He is the one who gave me the tip about holding the PAT button, not Jeff
at Union. Edd, I missed your note. Perhaps I covered too many topics in
one note. The base note of this topic was kind of a news letter, and may
bear reading again more carefully.

A more formal version HR16 review would definitely be appropriate. We need
someone to compile a list/letter from note 1064 and this note. T.J. was
also interested in having our members do a beta test on new products
before FRS.

dave

    > Does it do it even when your editing in step mode?
    
    Yeah, it emits clock always, but working in step mode doesn't
    issue a 'start' command so the drums don't step through as you
    think.
    
    Seriously, I can't think of any other way I'd rather have it.
    My previous arrangement (using my RX21 which could properly
    sync to an external clock) was simplicity to use.
    
    Given the HR's attention to details and UI, I have a hard time
    buying off that the QX is at fault. Alesis simply blew it. Their
    logic to distinguish 'twixt int and ext is fairly novel but 
    just doesn't work properly.
    
    Has anybody else successfully step-time edited a pattern on the
    HR while it was synced to an external source??? The bug only
    happens if follow my previous directions...
    
    Edd
                               

    I'll test the quadraverb....    
    
    ship immediately to: dave bottom
    			 rr1 box 1890
    			 palermo, me 04354
    
    thanks...
    
    dbII :-)

re: patt change...
Pattern change from my octapad works for me when the unit isn't 
seqencing but i haven't tried it mid-stream. seems like a reasonable
request. 
	It'd be pretty stupid to have to hit the start/stop pedal
then issue the change program command then hit the pedal to restart with
the new pattern, but at least it is an alternative that should be pretty 
painless (read: a hack, but available none the less).

    
    
    I ran into a bit of a problem last night that I haven't heard
    anyone else having yet.
    
    Here's what I had tried to set up.
    
    ___________           _________        _________     ____________________
    | Tascam  |==========>|       |        |       |=====|   D-50           |
    |  38     |           | HR-16 |=======>|MSQ-100|     | |||||||||||||||| |
    |         |           ---------        |       |     --------------------
    -----------                            ---------
                                                                   
    What I initially tried to do was to just synch the HR to tape. 
    Well, I followed everything the manual said and, lo and behold,
    it worked perfectly on the first try!  The problems began when
    I tried to get the MSQ-Dinosaur-100 to synch to the HR.  After
    enabling the MIDI clock out ON  on the HR-16, and setting the
    MSQ clock to MIDI, I started the tape rolling.  The HR-16 immediately
    started playing, just as it should have, but what I heard coming
    from the D-50 was NOT what I had programmed into the MSQ!  It
    sounded more like Black Sabbath played backwards at 1/2 speed!
    
    I looked back through the manuals, made sure I had everything set
    up right, and tried it again....same results.  So then I tried
    to synch the MSQ to the HR-16 using the HR's internal clock....no
    synch to tape this time.  I hit PLAY on the HR, and it started
    into the song I had in it.....but the MSQ just sat there as if
    to say "what, I should PLAY something?"
    
    I can't seem to figure out what I'm doing wrong.  I tried everything
    from different MIDI cables to doing exactly opposite what the manuals
    say.  No luck.  Any suggestions?  (Boy am I leaving myself open
    with THAT question! :^)  )
    
    BTW, when synching the HR TO the MSQ instead of the other way around,
    everything works perfectly!
    
    Ralph
    
    

RE < Note 1510.21 by IAMOK::CROWLEY "ere lies David St. 'ubbins, and why not!" >

	It sounds like your D50 is being played by the HR16 and not the MSQ-100.
I say this because I have heard simliar wierd stuff coming out when one of my
modules somehow gets info from a drum track.  To further confirm it, your MSQ
wasn't playing when you took the tape synch out of the network.  Did you ever
have the HR16, MSQ and D50 working together BEFORE you ran into problems?

	Dan

    The easy way to check this would be to make sure that the MSQ-100's
    output (you did use the OUT, not the THRU, right?  Or does the MSQ-100
    even have a THRU?  I haven't looked at the back of mine in a while...)
    is in Output mode, not MIX mode.  There's a dip switch on the back
    that controls this.
    
    len.
    

    Ah, Dan, I think you've got it.   Check that 
    	
    	1) The HR-16 MIDI NOTES OUT is OFF
    	
    	2) The MSQ OUT, not THRU (if it has one), is going to the D-50
    
    	3) The MSQ is set to NOT merge IN to OUT (if such a switch exists)
                                                                          
    
    

    Must be the time of year.  I was fooling with the same thing last
    night, and ran into a similar problem.

    Follow Bill Y's advice in .-1.  Also make sure that you don't have a
    MIDI loop (from your diagram, you don't.  If you have something going
    to the HR's MIDI in, the clock MUST be set to internal only.

-b

    
    
    re. the last few...
    
    Yes, I've got the MIDI OUT, not THRU going to the D-50, and I
    did have the HR-16 MIDI NOTES OUT turned OFF.  The only thing
    I can't remember for sure is what position the output dip switch
    was in.....I thought I checked that and tried both, but I tried
    so many different things that I could be wrong.  I'll have to 
    check that one tonight.  Thanks for the help.
    
    Ralph
    
    

    
    This month's KEYBOARD had an interesting letter to the editor on
    HR16/MMT8 switch glitches.
    
    Specifically, the problem is that some HR16/MMT8 units develop glitchy
    pushbutton switches, so that when you push one of the rubber buttons,
    sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't and sometimes it
    double-clicks.
    
    The cure is to burn your warranty, then take the machine apart.
    Carefully mark where the internal cabling goes, and then take the
    larger PC (not the display PC) out of the machine.  Clean the interlace
    contacts with a clean pencil eraser, and then wipe the whole board
    down with isopropyl alcohol.
    
    Then take more alcohol on a Q-tip and clean the black contact dots
    (careful!  don't rub real hard) on the rubber switch membrane.
    
    Dry it all out, reconnect cabling, and put it all back together.
    
    I did this to my HR16 (which had developed an occasionally annoying
    doubleclick feature on the "stop/continue" button :-(  ) and it
    now works wonderfully.  No more syncopated double-stops!
    
    	-Bill

    Consider it done. Mine is HORRIBLE!!!
    
    Edd

	I've cleaned my MMT-8 a few times (fortunately it's not too
	humid in Colorado, or I'd have to do this more often). I still
	say that the software wasn't written to handle key bounce
	issues properly. Otherwise, the MMT-8 works fine for me.

							Jens

    I must be one of the brave, I pulled my HR apart the first night I
    owned it. For a, ahem, repair...
    
    Anyhow, the fix Bill mentioned works like a charm. No bounce, much more
    positive tactile response on the rubber keys.
    
    Open the HR up and you'll see three ribbon cables attached to the large
    PCB mounted on the underside of the button surface. It won't hurt to
    mark them, but there's only 3 and they aren't routed in a manner which
    lends itself easily to confusion. I'd be more concerned over putting
    them on backwards as opposed to putting them on the wrong pin
    connectors. I didn't notice if they were keyed...
    
    The large PCB is held on by 9 screws. CAREFULL!! There are 4 soldered
    connections you don't want to snarfle with, but they're obvious, coming
    from the data entry slider.
    
    Flip the board over and firmly rub the oxidation off the PCB etched
    fingers. Mine was filthy. Clean the rubber dots with alcohol, dry
    and reassemble.
    
    While it's open, check the 4 large round sensors under the instrument
    pads to make sure they aren't coming undone.
    
    Easy as pie....
    
    Thanks,
    
    Edd

    I took my MMT8 apart, put it together again, and the display 
    went berserk. Seems those push-on connectors need to be just-so,
    or results get a bit unpredictable.
    
    Richard.

    Ha! I can't get over the improvement. It's like a new machine!
    
    ...and to think just last Saturday I was thinking of sending it off to 
    Alesis to have this problem fixed.
    
    Edd

    Boy, I can't wait until I have to do this sort of stuff to my MC-500
    and R-8!  Sounds like great fun!
    
    Anybody know how I can do lifecycle acceleration on these unpleasantly
    reliable beasties?
    
    len.
    

    ...judging from the use your studio is getting lately, len, I'd
    assume you'd be more worried about rust.
    
    Oh wait, that's not a studio, it's a museum. That stuff isn't
    supposed to be used, is it....
    
    ;^)
    
    Edd

    
    If only there were bits on Alesis gear that *could* rust...
    
    Richard.

    I assume that this will work as well on the drum pads?

    I've had to send my HR back to Alesis twice for cleaning because of
    button bounce or unresponsiveness.  I tried cleaning it once myself
    without a whole lotta luck - but then again, I used rubbing alcohol
    (all we had in the house) and I suspect that the oil in the stuff
    screwed up more than it helped. 

    The museum comment was below the belt, Edd.  &*}

-b

    Well, I've been on the road so much lately, the studio *has* gotten
    precious little use.  It's currently torn apart for rewiring for
    proper integration of the R-8 and the 2nd Super Jupiter.  I should
    be online again next week I hope.  I had no idea there were so many
    wires...
    
    len.
    

    I did the drum pads as well. From underneath there's no difference.
    
    BTW - I used 70% isopropyl "rubbing alcohol" as well, but didn't allow
    it to dry. I went right behind it with a clean cotton swap...
    
    Argh, I just remembered all the disk drive cleaners I have....
    
    Edd

    I used 70% isopropyl as well.  It really doesn't matter if it's
    pure or slightly cut with water, as long as it doesn't have oil
    in it (rubbing alcohol usually does have oil in it).
    
    We all could be politically incorrect and use FREON spray to clean
    the contacts :-).
    
    -----
    
    I did break off one of the soldered wires but I'm not afraid to
    solder.  No problem....
    
    	-Bill

	I don't see it anywhere. I thought of trying to record it from
	BULKDUMP and picking it apart but BULKDUMP filters out the SYSEX
	headers.... 

	Any ideas what the header info and basic commands are?

	/pjh