Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Oh yes, one other thing. I do have access to a VAXmate. I could
    use it as the computer, but I would still be interested to hear
    the relative merits in the way of software, etc....
    
    Tally-ho,
    
    Ray.

Ray -

I have the SuperMac with new cpu board and 1 meg memory. I use the Mark of the
Unicorn Performer and Composer software. See previous notes about Performer.
The MIDI interface is an OPCODE Systems Studio Plus. I purchased the software
and MIDI interface thru E.U. Wurlitzer in Boston. The MAC and a 20 mb hard disk
thru Acton Computer. There may also be a similar package for the ATARI ST for
less money. Total costs:

MAC update: $995.00  original purchase price $1700.00
MIDI:       $250.00
Performer:  $395.00
Composer:   $495.00
Total:      $2135.00

You will have to get a current price on the MAC. You need at least 512k memory.

For the sampling keyboard, I suggest you look at the Roland S50, and the Ensoniq
keyboards. The new Ensoniq EPS will be coming at the end of the month. The
Roland is about $2700 and the EPS $1995. There are some less expensive models
such as Korg and Casio. I haven't tried these.

Good luck, and happy music goody shopping

Dave

    Funny, I was going to recommend the same thing. (ST + S50).
    
    I think that for music-only applications, the choice of MAC vs ST
    is basically a wash.  The ST is considerably cheaper, and the Mac is
    more generally accepted.
    
    Steph

RE:.0

    I just went thru this.  The best h/w for the $$ is the ST.  Suggest you
    get a 1040; also a b/w monitor (for hi-rez graphics).  Should be able
    to get a used ST w/ monitor for around $700. 

    Best sequencing s/w I've seen for the ST is MasterTracks Pro from
    Passport.  List price is $350, which xlates to $260 @ 25% off. (Can)
    Also use(s) MIDI files for patch dumps. 

    There are several scoring packages out for the ST.  Have never seen or
    tried any.  Check out EZScore (Hybrid Arts), Copyist (Dr. T's), and
    SuperScore (Sonus).  There are probably more/better than this. Make
    sure that the thing can read MIDI files.  Assume you'll pay at least
    $500 for a good scoring package.  If you want the hassle, you COULD use
    the VAXmate to run PC scoring packages, but I wouldn't recommend it. 

    What are we up to now?  $1460?  Let's make it $1500.  (Still cheaper
    than a MAC). 

    You'll (probably) need a MIDI merge/thru box for your setup (assume 2
    ins, 3 or 4 outs).  Tack on another $200 (over-estimate). 

    Sampler?  Sheesh.  You want rack mount or a board?  This is wide open.
    Expect to spend a bit over $2000 (eg, Akai S900=$2100, Yword
    TX16W=$2300, EPS=$2000).  We'll assume $2300  8-). 

    NOTE!  DIGIDESIGN IS CURRENTLY CONVERTING SOUND DESIGNER TO RUN ON THE
    ATARI ST!  Due out "this spring" (aka, August).  Vaporware, I know, but
    good vaporware.   List $495 ($370 @ 25% off). 

    Now, we're up to $4000 w/o the Digidesign software.  How's that? 


brad who's_been_thru_this_before

    re .4	Know anywhere I could get a "packaged deal" on the
    Computer, sequencer and scoring software ?  

    	This is a general question, I havn't get settled on the Atari,
    though I'm close, I'd also like to know who does packaged deals
    on Macs.
    
    	Reg
    

RE: .5 (package deal on ST/MAC)

    Sorry, Reg.  I don't know of anywhere, although you might give
    Thorobred a call (Tampa, FL ... 813-237-5597).  I think they sell the
    h/w as well as the s/w.

    FWIW, I would NOT get the ST new.  Keep an eye on the local want ads
    (called Trading Post in n/w Ohio).  I got my 1040 with a b/w monitor
    used for $645.  Best new price I found was around $800. With the Mega
    coming out and b/w owners trading up to color tubes for games, you can
    get some pretty good deals. 

    Good luck.

brad

    You can also get some pretty good deals on used Macs these days. You
    should be able to get a Mac Plus for around $1200. And beyond the music
    software, there's tons of great commercial and free Mac software out
    there.
    
    There are a number of quality Mac mail order companies that ship overnight
    and invariably beat all dealer prices. I'm positive that you would pay a
    premium for any hardware/software package deal.
    
    And, heh, if you opt for a Mac and a Mirage, I'm still selling Sound
    Designer for $175...
    
    -Mark

    re .0	"In 12 weeks, I've committed a brithday present to myself."
    
    	Well;  three down, nine to go.  What progress in the decisions
    domain ?

    
    	Reg	{Home computer and sequencer software procrastinator
		specialist}

    I have the ST setup running DR T's KCS (Keyboard Controlled Sequencer).
    I run this on a CZ230S, which certainly isn't the pinnacle of synthesis
    valhalla, I'm sure, but I'm amazed at how quickly I can piece a song
    together. KCS doesn't have the nifty graphics, but the reward for
    this is that it is FAST. I have worked with some other sequencer
    type stuff, and the graphics look cool to the newcomer, but bog
    down the program once you know what you're doing. The lack of
    sophisticated graphics means that KCS goes for around $200. Don't
    be alarmed if at first it seems like information blowout, It only
    takes about four hours to figure it out (and about the same four
    hours of waiting for spiffy graphics to wear thin). I'm still looking
    for a good drum machine. The CZ230S has about the crudest drum
    sequencer I've seen. The standard ST running KCS has virtually
    unlimited notes. Here is a brief rundown of the features:
    
    No graphics.
    
    Track mode - 60 tracks
    Open mode - 60 sequences
    Song mode - 10 songs
    
    Copy track to sequence to song and vice-versa.
    Secondary sequences - control sequences with sequences.
    Quantize, transpose, shift on events and regions.
    Live mode and Step mode recording/editing.
    Cueing and punching.
    
    In all, there hasn't been a single thing I haven't been able to
    do within a few commands. I like to experiment, so the fact that
    the program is fast is great for comparing arrangements.
    
    There isn't a single bad thing I can say about the ST/KCS arrangement.
    The ST has the MIDI ports builtin and has tons of memory.
    KCS is fast and powerful. You can get this setup for under $1000.
    Dr T's also carries a score program which I haven't tried since
    I don't read music anywhos.
    
    The only complaint I have about my system is that the drum sequencer
    in the CZ is the pits. I hope to remedy that soon.
    
    						John.

    
    Early details now, more to follow...
    
    I just got Dr. T's Copyist Pro-DTP, which is the combined version of
    the previously separate Pro and DTP (desk top publishing) versions.
    
    Initial impression - jeez, this thing is complicated!  It's not as bad
    as when I first sat down to learn Ventura, but this really is a whole
    new technology.  I've written stuff by hand before, and didn't realize
    how much "work" I was actually doing.
    
    The installation failed without warning a couple of times until I
    realized that the file handling code wasn't bright enough to handle a
    network drive.  After I guessed that something like that was the
    problem, I let it install on a local hard disk and then moved it out to
    the file server (Novell).  I noted this in the comments space on the
    registration card.  Probably wouldn't be a problem for most people, but
    it indicates that somebody didn't really design the disk I/O section
    right.
    
    Without reading the manual, I started up the program, imported a
    sequence I had been playing with, and printed it.  The package comes
    with the Adobe Sonata font and the printed score is real pretty
    
    I'm working through the (boring) tutorials now, so I can find out what
    this thing can really do.  One capability I haven't tested yet is the
    ability to convert a score back into a MIDI file.  So theoretically,
    you could write the score on-screen in traditional music notation,
    export it to your sequencer, and audition the results...
    
    You know what a package like this reminds me of?  It's like when you
    first get a PC and start writing programs, but you don't have a printer
    to get a listing.  You spend a lot of time staring at the screen.  With
    the copyist I can now just print whatever I'm working on, then go to
    the piano and pencil in new stuff...
    
    

	re: .-1

	I've been using Copyist for a couple of years. Yes, it is awfully
	complicated. 

	You can get from score back to midi using Copyist. I did it once to
	prove that it could be done. To me, it is the exact opposite in
	terms of "productive use of one's time". Are you using the PC version?
	Mine is on the Atari (Mega-4 now).

	/pjh

    
    I'm learning how to be "more productive" with it.  For now, I'm not
    bothering with all the neat stuff that you'd want to do if you were
    going to publish a score.  It seems to be easy to just import a MIDI
    file, make a few selections, and print out something good enough to
    work from.  It's a great crutch for people like me who have to "see"
    what they're doing.