Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I use an IBM PC with Texture for sequencing. Maybe this should be
    another note (maybe it already is) ?
    
    	- Rick
    

    Sounds like a VERY nice setup, Bill. I think Kawai is really on
    to something good.. it's just that the K3/K5s haven't attracted
    lots of third-party sound developers. Also I don't believe anyone
    in this conference HAS a Kawai except you.. so if response is
    underwhelming don't be discouraged.
    
    Also, a good friend of mine was shopping and was very impressed
    with the R50 drummer.. is that the one with vel-sensing pads ?
    
    .. not too many PC Sequencists in this file.. Rick Cohen be the
    only one I know of.
    
    Uh, what's your musical direction/intention with this stuff ? I
    find myself interested not only in the gear but in what people wish
    to do with it. I've turned into a total studio asocial technoid,
    personally. Content just uh, playing by (with?) myself..
    
    karl the m   
    

    	Thanks for your note, Karl.  On the R-50, the pads are NOT
    touch sensitive (as in the R-100, TR626, and Korg DDDs).  However,
    since the K-5 and other MIDI keyboards are I can assign the R-50's
    sounds to the K-5.  Right?
    
    	Based on reading COMMUSIC and the local marketplace, I think 
    you're right about there not being much response to the K-5.  Some
    of the other synths I looked certainly have more "sex-appeal", and
    more 3rd party sponsors.  I'm gambling that Kawai will use its
    considerable influence to "interest" some of these sponsors.  I
    also feel that they have made it sinfully easy for people to program
    the beast.  If Kawai has made a mistake in all this, it is the lack
    of creativity in the factory supplied patches, many of which are
    about as exciting as a cold mash-potato sandwich on wet bread.
    
    	Like you, my musical direction/intention is less ambitious than
    challenging Prince, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis.  I bought this rig
    first and foremost as a source of recreation, a way to have some
    fun with sounds.  It also happens to tie into my loves for music, 
    stereo, composing, and electronics.  I have a couple choral pieces
    that I would like to revise/edit/transcribe for church, and I am
    always thinking about variations on tunes I hear whether they're
    by Bach or the B-52s, Tippett or Tito Puento, Miles or Mutabaruka.
    I don't know if anything I come up with will ever be worth summiting
    to the COMMUSIC compilations, but I think I'll have fun doin' it!!
             
    	I think that these notes are fascinating and even if there are
    not (m)any other K-5 owners to trade recipes with, I'll keep reading
    to gain whatever info I can.  But if there are others out there with
    similar needs to mine, I really hope that they do themselves a favor
    a take a close look at the K-5.  It doesn't jump up and bite you
    on the nose, but it sure feels a lot more like "man's best friend".
    
    Clusters,
    Bill

    Just to clarify, the TR-626 *PADS* are NOT touch sensitive.  You
    have to go thru the MIDI jacks to get this handy dandy little feature.
    
    Ashley.

    R50 Question, before I buy one.
    
    Can touch sensitivity be controled via MIDI on the PC? I don't play
    keyboards so I need to know, else maybe I should look closer into
    the Alesis machine.
    
    Mark
    

    Karl:  
    >> I don't believe anyone ...
    
    Gee whiz, I feel insignificant.  I own a K-5m (I even posted a review),
       an R50, a Kawai 8 channel keyboard mixer and a 60 amp keyboard monitor.
    
    Tons of Kawai equipment, and I am very satisfied with it.
    
    Re : .0
    
    Excellent!  Another K5 owner (and an R50 owner for free).
    
    I have been considering writing a K5 voice editor for my Atari,
    but currently I believe that the editing interface is about as good
    as what I would get with a computer (not quite, but it's good enough
    for now).  There is a company that has a PC and ST K5 editor (I
    forget whom.)
    
    The R50 IS velocity sensitive via MIDI.
    
    See the forthcoming R50 review.
    
    Steph
     
    
    
    
    

    re .6
    	>		                	and a 60 amp keyboard monitor.
                                                         ^^^
    Sounds like your keyboard monitor was built by Lincoln Arc Welders
    							:-)
                                                        
    
    Kawai has signed a contract with the lead of Event Horizon to write
    an ST-based parameter generator.  That is to say, not me- the contract
    is with him personally, not with E.H.  He won't even let me play
    with the K5, the scum-sucking leech :-) 
                                                            
    The guy is an astrophysicist- but he's putting himself through school 
    writing code for local companies.  Just the sort of hacker the job requires.
    That's the good news.  The bad news is that I think most of the
    patches this guy comes up with sound like variations on a drawbar
    organ.  
    
    Let's just hope that the patch editor isn't built to make drawbar
    organs.
    

    FLASH!!!
    
    	I just heard some of the sample-derived patches for the K5,
    at my local axe-grinder.  Although I should probably wait until
    I have had a chance to live with them (I am getting a set as soon
    as I can get some blank cartridges) before trying to do a review,
    here are some impressions:
    
    	1) The process that produces these (as I understand it) is that
    	an AKAI sampler (S900) is connected to a PC (ATARI) program which
    	converts the waveform into something the K5 can understand. It
    	in turn can then write that sound to its cartridge.
    
     	2) At the present time, Dr. T (?) is working on a ibm-PC based
    	patch editor for the K5.  Ergo, someone like me, with an XT and
    	a K5 can borrow the cartridge from our dealer and park it on
        a floppy (or better yet hard disk).  Hopefully, that's legal!@?
    
    	3) Most of the patches I heard were winds (decent Clarinet,
        very nice Tuba), strings (about five different kinds of Violin
    	including a "Stradivarius" (right)), and several basses (acoustic 
    	and electric).  There were also some killer organs with one being 
    	the closest I've heard yet to Leslie amp!  For classical buffs,
    	some pretty realistic Positiv and Tibia.  As with "real" samples,
    	you have to stay within the instrument's natural range for the
    	sounds to really (eg believably) sing.  I was playing on an
    	88-key midi controller, and Tuba 3 octaves above middle C sounded
    	more like a flute........well, sort of.
    
    	Real nice stuff, and very worth hearing if you have a K5 or
    	are considering one.  The organs in particular blow away the
    	patches that come with the unit.  But then again, they are
    	"basically" samples.  (I know I'm gonna catch h*ll from someone,
    	on that one!).   
    
    	Clusters,
    	Bill
     	
    

    re -.6:
    	
    	I read your K-5m review after I got into notes, Steph.  Thanks
    for writing it.  I had already bought the unit by then, but I think 
    that even having read through all the available notes I would have 
    decided to buy the K5.  I'm just a sucker for misunderstood, under-
    acheivers. (Remind me of myself).
    
    	Almost went the route you did, but I had an old stereo amp 
    which needed something to do, and the Kawai 8-Channel mixer is hard 
    to get, out here.  I find the Yamaha a bit noisy, but.......
    
    	Speaking of noise, I seem to hear little clicking sounds when
    striking keys.  It is almost the kind of sound you would expect from 
    a dirty electrical contact.  My initial thinking is that is the cost 
    of having the monitors so close to my ears; they are literally in my 
    face (Hey, dude!?@!!) on the upper level of a 2-tier stand.  Do you 
    find this a problem, at all?  And, while we're getting personal, what 
    do you use for a keyboard??
    
    And Kawai?           (sorry)
    
    Clusters,
    Bill
    

    Re: .7:  What I meant to say was:  ``...60 amp keyboard watt!''
    
    Hmm.  I don't get any clicking with the K5 (the matrix-6R is another
    story...).  At least not that I remember, and I just jammed with
    it for a few hours today.
    
    Really?  A Leslie?  Gimmie, gimmie!
    
    I'm curious about what patches you have...
    Tell me if any of this sounds familiar:
    Internal:  SIA-1: PIANO-99, MIA-1: PIANO!
    External:  SEA-1: SWWOOD,   MEA-1: AIRYHARP
    
    And then I got another bank from my music store:
               SEA-1: PRSHORNS, MEA-1: ROMANTIC
    
    ROMANTIC is like, the totally bitchin', hunkomatic sound, 
    ya know?
    
    I have written my own program to store K5 sounds on the ST.
    Unfortunately, Kawai uses dopey handshaking in their bulk dump protocol
    (like Roland used to do) so you can't really use a ``generic'' dumper.
    
    If you manage to store your patches on disk, maybe we can exchange
    them electronically.  Texual format for these babies is virtually
    useless!
    
    I use a venerable DX7 (E!ed for full velocity response) as a master.
    
    Steph

< Note 1039.0 by NCVAX1::ALLEN >
                        -< "KAWAI COME OUT and PLAY?" >-

    
>>    It boiled down to a choice between the D-50 and the K-5, which many
>>    would think would be a walk for the D-50.  But the more I listened
>>    to the D-50s, the less I was impressed with the monster music (Yeah,
>>    but now can it do some work?!).  And the more I listened, I realized 
>>    that although the Kawai folks had probably blown it on "killer"
>>    patches, the real important things like PIANO, STRINGS, ORGAN and 
>>    HRPSCHD were pretty darned good for a synth.  Yes I will probably
>>    get a sampler someday, but until then I have to live with these.
>>    I just couldn't see myself really writing much serious music with
>>    "INTRUDER".
    
    Clusters,
    Bill

Congratulations on your new gear! I know the feeling of getting home with
the goods after making a major music purchase. In fairness to the D-50
though ... I felt the same way as you did about the Internal Factory
patches. They were a marketing gimic to attract attention at the shows. It
turns out that all of the really useful patches came out on ROM cards as
an aftermarket trick. So for another 95 clams you get a card loaded with
great string, organ, and individual instrument patches. There isn't any
usable piano patch as far as I'm concerned, however. I do like the PCM
Electric Piano if it is EQed to get rid of some digitial noise "hiss". I
use the S50 for piano patches and the MKS-20 for piano on gigs. The
Deep Analog Strings is very nice on the D50. I have found that by varying
the upper/lower tone balance, reverb type/balance, and detune 8va that
I like most of the usable patches very much and save them on a RAM card.
The built-in reverb on the D50 can really give some "spacious" effects on
multi-track recording. It is much better than an outboard effects unit
because it responds evenly to different volume levels. When you MIDI up
the D50 with the S50, the sounds are unbelievable. I have a RAM card with
64 very usable patches of my own creation/modification of factory patches.
It takes someone very knowledgeable to demonstrate the D50 properly. Eddie
Fritz at the Worcester E.U. Wurlitzer is the best guy if you are still
interested. Until he demoed the D50 for me, I wasn't interested at all.

Have fun and merry Xmas to yourself,

Dave

    	re .10
    		It seems that our machines have the same internal and
    external patches, although PRSHORNS is on my internal bank (SIB-2?)
    I think ROMANTIC may have been on one of the ROM cards that the
    salesman showed me with the samples.  When I boot my K5, it says
    Version 1.0; same for you?
    
    	I met the KAWAI rep for this area of the country and he indicated
    that quite a few new and exciting things are planned next year.
    Besides the samples, Dr. T is coming out with a patch utility and
    waveform analyzer for the K5.  This will effectively allow us to
    do away with the $70 cards, which you can't seem to buy, anyway.
    He also said that the reps themselves contributed several of the
    patches which come pre-packaged with our machines.  Hmmmmm....
    Good news for the R-50: a company called Drumware is making some
    sort of adapter which will allow R-50 owners to switch between 2-3
    internal chips (without having to open your unit).  This is great
    because I was not thrilled about having to stop and spend 15 min.
    swapping chips, just to get a tympani!  If you haven't heard this
    alternate chip, Steph, you have to.  I had heard the Alesis HR-16
    a couple days earlier and was having 2nd thoughts (see Alesis note)
    but listening to this new chip and hearing about the JAZZ chip coming
    next year, I am convinced once again, that this unit is all I really
    need.  
    
    	According to this rep, we should look for more advertising on
    the K5 as well as 3rd party utilities (like Dr. T's).  I'm still
    learning how to get mine to come when called and fetch.  Even with
    all of the on-board tools it still takes a little doing, but it
    is fascinating!  I've gone to the local library to learn more about
    waveforms and harmonic content of acoustic instruments in an attempt
    to get better at this.  If I see any good titles, I'll let you know.
    
    Santa Clusters,
    Bill
    

    re -.10 and -.12
    
    Hello, again!  
    		I've had more time to play with patches on my K5,
    and have gotten a feel for the ones I like and don't like.  I still
    haven't gotten really good at building my own patches but I'm sure
    that will happen.  I went down to my local music store yesterday
    and he tried to sell me a RAM card with some "new" sounds for $80.00!
    That seems a little stiff to me; is that what you had to pay for
    yours?  When I asked him for a blank one (without any sounds) he
    said that Kawai has decided not to sell them blank anymore, only
    with sounds on them.  The reasoning is that if you don't like the
    patches you can erase them.
    
                All this has made me much more interested in being able
    to dump patches up and down from my K5 to my PC or a cassette. 
    Steve, you mentioned you had a way to do this.  Will it work for
    other systems than the Atari?
    
    		By the way, have you been checking out all the furor
    over HR-16 reliability?  The R-50 is looking better and better.
    (Knock on wood).
    
    Clusters,
    Bill

    I have not had much success creating my own sounds from scratch
    with the K5, either.  I have, however, gotten resonably good results
    in modifying the factory patches.  There are too many parameters
    for me to work really effectively from a blank slate.  Also, I have
    found that the time-domain modulation is really great, but modulation
    in other domains (velocity, wheels, etc) is pretty weak.  Not
    impossible, but not very flexible.
    
    
    
    Assuming that you are refering to the new bank with ``Romantic''
    as the first multi patch (A1), those sounds are worlds better than
    the ones that come in the RAM cart that you get with the machine.
    
    I mean, REALLY GREAT.
    
    80$ is what I payed for a blank card.  I don't think they are really
    charging you anything for the sounds.  I agree that RAM carts are,
    in general, a rip-off.  A PC is the way to go.  I have archived
    my sounds on an Atari ST.  I wrote the bulk dump software which
    talks to the K5 myself, and I'm sure that my program wouldn't run on
    any other PC.
    
    If you got another type of PC, you would probably be on your own with
    respect to software, since I haven't seen any K5 specific software for
    any machine.  I have heard rumors that there is a voice editor for
    the ST, but I will have to see it to believe it.  Unfortunately,
    the K5's MIDI protocol requires handshaking, and so, can not be
    handled by ``generic'' bulkdump/load programs.
    
    If you want a sales pitch on why to buy an Atari simply for the
    purpose of archiving musical electronic device state, zip off a
    note to Paul Kent (ERIC::KENT), who should be able to ``reprint''
    of my highly persuasive (insert smiley) arguments for buying an ST.
    
    Put simply:  1) To easily store your thousands of sequences and patches.
                 2) Whack.
                 2) Could be under $400.
    
    My R50 does all I ask of it, but as I mentioned before, I am not
    a particularly demanding drum machine user.  The sounds are
    sufficiently realistic, and I don't have to remember much to get
    around the machine.
    
    Steph

    Hey, is Steph Bailey still out there?  What did you think of the
    additional patches for the K5?  How about other K5ers; have other
    got these new sounds and what do you think about them?
    
    Clusters, 
    Bill Allen @MPO

    Well - actually, Steph is now at the University of Chicago, and
    no longer works for DEC.  He's studying for his PhD.  If you wanna
    reach him via mail, you can send thru the usenet to:

	DECWRL::"bailey@anubis.uchicago.edu"

    I'm sure he'd be happy to hear from you.

-b

    Thanx for SB's "address"...
    
    Bill Allen @MPO