Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Piece of cake - the Yamaha YPR series 

YPR-8   ~$300.  5 octaves, full-size, touch-sensitive keys  Keyboard
has nice feel - Yamaha is very good at that. 5 voices (Piano1 Piano 2,
Elec. Piano, harpscord, vibes).  w/Sustain pedal, volume control, 
headphone jack.
			OR (what I took home) 

YPR-9  ~$400.  As above, but add MIDI, with built in record and
transpose functions. 

There's also a YPR-1 (not touch sensitive)

One suggestion - I would go for the 9 even if you're not into MIDI.  
Because you might be into it in the future, and/or, if you ever trade 
up, a MIDI controller keyboard always has some residual value (there's
always some professional-type out there who needs yet another 
controller).

    Thanks.  I'd be willing to spring the extra $100 for MIDI, on the
    expectation of someday getting into that.
    
    Do either of these have built-in rhythm/accompaniment?  Lots of
    the Casio keyboards do, and it's kind of fun to have.  If not, though,
    I suppose these could be MIDI'ed on later (for some exorbitant amount
    of money).
    
    Also, can these be run from batteries as well as AC cord?
    
    Finally, can you suggest a good place to try/buy the Yamahas?
    
    Thanks.
    -pd

>    Do either of these have built-in rhythm/accompaniment?  Lots of
>    the Casio keyboards do, and it's kind of fun to have.  If not, though,
>    I suppose these could be MIDI'ed on later (for some exorbitant amount
>>    of money).

No - buy a Dr. Rythhm (ROland Dr-110) for like $60 (?).  (or maybe you 
can get me to part with my old Dr-55)
    
>    Also, can these be run from batteries as well as AC cord?

Runs off of 5 D-cells.  Make sure you buy THEIR A/C adaptor, as normal 
ones void the warranty (small concern) and don't supply enough current 
(big concern).  Also - on the YPR-9, the program memory has its own 
battery,  So you can record (or down-load) at home, and take it 
somewhere and playback the program, even if you don't have the D-cells 
in place.

>    Finally, can you suggest a good place to try/buy the Yamahas?
    
Sam Ash Mailorder - see note elsewhere in this file (title=ssam ash) 
for tel #.  

    Thanks for the wealth of info.  I'd like to try it before I buy,
    so even if I eventually order from Sam Ash, I'd like to find someplace
    in the general Boston/Maynard/Nashua area to "audition" the thing.
    
    I stopped back at Service Merchandise the other day, and they still
    carry what I think was the Casio keyboard I played with.  The model was
    CT-6000, I think.  It's a 61 key, velocity sensitive MIDI kb with about
    20 or so voices, and various rhythm/accompaniment effects.  They wanted
    about $680 for it, though, and the action has a very "cheap" feel to it. 

You may be able to audition it at Kurlan in Worcester - or find the 
authorized yamaha dealer closest to you (Lechmere had the YPR-1 a 
while ago)


Or - if you come to one of the HL music club sessions - I and my 
kayboard will be in attendance 8-)

    Well, I managed to try out a YPR-1 at Daddy's Junky Music in Nashua,
    and a YPR-7 at Lechmere in the Pheasant Lane Mall.  The YPR-1 is
    not velocity sensitive, so it was not really under consideration.
    
    I was disappointed with the YPR-7.  It may be because of the
    "after-touch" sensitivity, but I felt I had to really lean on the
    keys to get any sound.  I think I like the feel of the Casio CT-6000
    better.  The YPR seemed to have better (ie, more "realistic") piano
    sounds, but the Casio has a whole bunch of different sounds that
    would be fun to play with.  Also, the Casio has built-in
    rhythm/accompaniment.  On the other hand, the Casio is a few hundred
    dollars more expensive.
    
    I haven't made any decisions yet, so other input is welcome.  One
    of the hard problems I have is trying to figure out what I want.
    There seem to be 4 ranges of keyboards I'm seeing:
    
    Under $500	61 keys, possibly velocity sensitive, w/ different
    		voices, effects, some w/ MIDI, generally "toy" feel,
    		battery or AC operated.
    
    $500-$1000	76 keys, generally fewer voices/effects than above,
    		no battery operation, slightly more natural feel, MIDI,
    		sustain pedal.
    
    $1000-$1700	76 or 88 keys, MIDI, two pedals, weighted keys, mostly
    		a few piano voices, harpsichord and vibes, more "realistic"
    		sounds than above.
    
    $1700-???	Very good piano simulation, nice stands w/ built-in
    		pedals, sustenuto pedal, more MIDI controlling options,
    		etc.
    
    My problem is that I want ALL of the above.

    
    Its the same thing with stereos: the first question the
    salesman asks is "How much you wanna spend?" right?
    
    You wont find a realistic piano action under $1000 (+).
    You MAY find a realistic piano voice to your ear for much
    less, although they tend to be "8 notes max".
    
    Take your choice. Did you try the Roland RD-300? I usually
    go TRY at a dealer and then shop mail order for considerable
    savings. The CZ-1 (list like $1400) was $670 with shipping
    included. 
        
    As long as it has Midi, find what you like in the $1000
    range if you can invest that. It will then become a base
    for midi add on voices like CZ101 or Fb01 ($200-$300) and
    grow as you broaden your sonic palette.
    
    ron
    

1) Could you describe the YPR-7 a bit (want to differentiate it from 
the 8 and 9)

2) If you don't HAVE to have digital sampling, you can get some VERY 
nice pieces of equipment for under $1000, just by looking around for 
all the pre-digital sampling stuff.  (I'm waiting for the
fully-programmable digitally sampled stuff to become affordable,  as
I'm unimpressed with the presets-only keyboards i've seen, like the
Roland HP-3000, 4000, 4500, 5500). 

For example: See if you can find a Roland HP-450 - 88 weighted keys, 8
very realistic sounds, with more sound variety than the
digitally-sampled keyboards.  A professional KEYBOARD as opposed to a
toy. Wurlitzer has been selling them in the $500-$600 range.  A
smaller one is the HP-350.  (you can probably find several in the want
advertizer).  The Yamaha equivalent is their clavinova series for a
few hundred more (I think). 

Thar's gold in them there trade-ins

    
    1)which keyboards have we mentioned that were "digitally sampled"?
    
    2)Go out and shop. Try all you can at all prices. This defines 
      your options.  You should decide based NOT ONLY on what you 
      can afford, but what sounds AND feels acceptable to you. 
      Which may imply waiting (and saving) for a while.
    
    
    

    Re/ .8:
    
    The YPR-7 is very much like what you described in .1 as the YPR-8,
    except that I didn't like the feel of the keyboard, and I don't
    know if it takes a sustain pedal.  The keys seemed to be full width,
    but somewhat shorter than "real" piano keys.
    
    Re/ .9:
    
    When I first wrote the note, I thought I was looking for something
    under $500, with lots of effects and other fun stuff.  Now that
    I have been shopping around, I can't make up my mind whether I want
    something for home use that resembles (ie, feels, sounds) a real
    piano, or something I can toss on the back seat of the car to play
    with on vacations, outings, etc.  The former group represents things
    which are more expensive, but I'm not sure I'd be satisfied without
    weighted keys, reasonable sound, etc.
    
    Still looking,
    -pd

    Have you looked at the ESQ-1?

8^)

RE: -.3
A digitally sampled keyboard (ala Roland MKS-20, HP-nnnn) is where
real piano sounds were digitally sampled and stored, and are played
back with adjustment for pitch, timbre, etc. 

In older technology (HP-nnn, clavinova, etc), the sounds originiate 
from oscillators whose output is processed to produce the piano-like 
sounds.

Re: -.2
I guess the difference between YPR-7 and YPR-8,9 is the latter have 
full-size keys and sustain pedal included

RE < Note 801.12 by MORMPS::WINSTON "Jeff Winston (Hudson, MA)" >

>A digitally sampled keyboard (ala Roland MKS-20, HP-nnnn) is where
>real piano sounds were digitally sampled and stored, and are played
>back with adjustment for pitch, timbre, etc. 

	I believe the MKS-20 and its brethren are not digitally sampled
pianos.  They use a new concept developed by Roland called structured
adaptive synthesis.  Correct me if I'm wrong guys.  The end result, whether
it's sampled or not, is still amazing - a superb piano.

	In the last wave of new electronic pianos, the ones that were digital
sampled were the Korg SG-1 and the Ensonic Piano.

	Dan

Well, if you want somewhat real piano sounds.

And you want somthing cheap ($300ish).

And you wanna have it be portable too.

The only choice for you is the Yamaha DX-100.  I take it with me on vacation
with a tiny guitar amplifier (or put it through the stereo).  It has pretty
good piano sounds (great compared to anything in its price range), great
rhodes sounds, great organs (including pipe organs, etc).

Although the keyboard is mid size and not velocity sensitive, it has MIDI
and accepts velocity info.  So if you ever get a full sized velocity sensitive
keyboard with MIDI, just plug it in...

If you wanna try one out in a quiet environment, give me a buzz (I own one).
I live in Framingham, MA.

Todd.

Well, looking back at the original note, I see you wanted somthing with
a builtin rhythm section.  The DX-100 doesn't.

And you wanted somthing with full sized keys.  The DX-100 doesn't.  But
they are not *real* small...

Todd.

    
    That was my point on "digitally sampled". Sorry, Jeff, the
    Mks 20 and all its cousins are not sampled, as has been
    mentioned. 
    
    They use another obscure but effective technique. The Yamaha
    line uses FM techniques on the Clavinovas.
    
    Oh and re the esq-1....come on. It neither feels/sounds like a piano
    NOR can you throw it in the back seat and drag it out at the beach.
    
    Guys, you arent listening to the "customers" requirements. (And
    I guess they know the $$$ range for what they get, now?)
    
    ron
    
   

RE < Note 801.16 by JON::ROSS >

>    Oh and re the esq-1....come on. It neither feels/sounds like a piano

	The ESQ-1 doesn't sound like a piano?  Could've fooled me!  (And besides
the piano, it can do a trillion other sounds well!).

	Dan

RE: .16
    
>    That was my point on "digitally sampled". Sorry, Jeff, the
>    Mks 20 and all its cousins are not sampled, as has been
>    mentioned. 
>    
>    They use another obscure but effective technique. The Yamaha
>    line uses FM techniques on the Clavinovas.
    
Had a feeling someone would push back.

OK, then, could someone educate me (compare and contrast?) on the 
differences in the 2 (3?) generations of technology represented by

1.	Roland MKS-20 (HP-3000, HP-4500, HP-5500, etc)

2.	Roland Hp-400, hp-450, Yamaha Clavinova

3. 	Yamaha CP-30, CP-35, (something>-15.

Thanks very much
		/j

    	
    no.
    
    &*}
    

         The last note in this topic was placed over 2 1/2 years ago, but
    it seems an appropriate place for this:
    
    I'm looking for a synth that: 
    
    (Please excuse me for not knowing any of the jargon that seems to be common 
    knowledge to the noters in this conference)
    
    - Will produce two (or more?) instrument sounds with the hitting of one
      key.
    
    - Is "touch sensitive"
    
    - has a decent number of pre-programmed sounds
    
    - has Reasonable MIDI capabilities
    
    - has Mid or Full-size keys
    
    - has a "pitch bend" control
    
    - is reasonable inexpensive ($500 - $600)
    
    Does such an animal exist?
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Pat

    ref .20
    
    I bought a Yamaha PSR-47. The only thing you want that it doesn't
    have is velocity. It has dual voices, MIDI in & out, auto
    accompaniment, custom drummer, pitch bend, transpose, 100 voices,
    etc.. ANNNDDDDD it only costs about $349.
    
    Love it!!!!!!!
    
    Gil
    

    I own a Yamaha DS55, this unit seems to meet many if not all of your
   requirements.  It is a 4op FM synth.
    
>    - Will produce two (or more?) instrument sounds with the hitting of one
      key.
    
    Does this, can play 2 instruments simultaneously, with the press of a
    single key, or can split the keyboard into two zones.  Of course can play
    more through midi.

>    - Is "touch sensitive"

    The DS55 is Velocity sensitive.
    
>    - has a decent number of pre-programmed sounds

    200 - Some fair ones, and some not so great
    also has room to store 100 user patches.
   
>    - has Reasonable MIDI capabilities

    seems to match the other Yamaha 4op synths midi, though I havent verified
    this, as i've never seen any others.
    
>    - has Mid or Full-size keys

    Has 61 full size keys.
    
>    - has a "pitch bend" control

    Has a pitch bend wheel.
    
>    - is reasonable inexpensive ($500 - $600)

    I paid $600 for mine

    Bill Powers

    A recent issue of Keyboard (within the past three or four months) did
    a comprehensive review of "home keyboards".  I can copy the article
    for you if you'll tell me where to send it...
    
    len.
    

Soapbox repeat: Get one with velocity sensitivity (touch sensitivity). 
Once you have it, you'll never know how you could get by without it. 

Alex