Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    From what I've experienced so far, I wouldn't consider the 505 (alone)
    for 'live' performance.  The keys aren't velocity sensitive, so doing
    your 'solo' live will just be tapping on buttons with an accent
    here and there.  It can hold a little over 400 bars which you can
    group into two sets if you want.  I'm still new to my machine, so
    I may not be the best source of info.  I don't anticipate running
    out of room for one song, but I expect two songs to be pushing it.
    You might consider something else to drive the 505 (like a
    velocity-sensitive keyboard) if you want to play the thing live.
    
    BTW - the only real gripe I have so far with the 505 is that the 
    clap doesn't sound as good as the clap on a DR-110!  Other than that...

    Steve

    I assume that by two sets of material you mean about 24 songs. 
    Good luck - a TR707 with an M64C cartridge plugged into it will
    hold 12 songs.  I can't speak to the memory capacity of some of
    the newer machines like the RX5 or the DDD1.  Of course, they each
    cost about $1K, a bit more than a TR505.  I believe the 505 supports
    2 "tracks" (= songs).  A typical pop song is anywhere from 80 to
    150 bars long.  I don't know what the 400 bar capacity that Steve
    mentions refers to (I don't have a 505), but my guess is that it
    is an upper limit on the number of bars per track.  Typically
    drum machines have fixed storage allocation so you can program up
    to the bar limit for all available tracks without worrying about
    running out of memory.
    
    Also, I assume that by "live" performance you meant sequenced drums
    accompanied by other live musicians.  If you haven't tried this,
    you should before you invest, as some musicians simply cannot play
    with a click track; it is not so much the locked in tempo as much
    as the fact that it won't adapt to you *at all*.
    
    If you do intend to program it rather than play it, then the lack
    of velocity sensitive buttons is not an issue - you just program
    in the accents.  The 505's sound generators *are* velocity sensitive
    through the MIDI input; probably the cheapest way to drive it this
    way is via an Octapad (see my review elsewhere in this conference).  
    
    len.
    

    The 707 with the Symphony cartridge will hold 20 (!) songs.  Saw a used
    one go last week for around $375.  Symphony cartridge is around $150. 

    Another thing you can do to cheat ... (unfortunately).  Lots of stuff
    is very similar.  If you arrange your patterns properly on the box, you
    will be able to go into pattern play mode and repeat a set of patterns
    indefinitely.  Not sure how this applies, but some (read: too many)
    groups use this ability to their advantage. 

    So much for variance.  Now you have 4 cents.

8^)

    I have been using several drumm machines for 3 years and I
    believe that the TR-505 is the best investment (quality-price-
    sound and manipulation aspects). One weak point (but not so
    important) of this drumm is that the sound output is in stereo
    only. However it can easily be modified to have a separate output
    for each sound.
                                          
    markus
    

    
    Do you have the mods?
    
    

    I've done the mods on mine - it's easy to do but it does have some
    imperfections.
    
    Output levels are low from the individual outs.
    The envelopes are changed from the outs.
    If an output is used for the snare (for example) and you also use
    the mixed sterio output, then the snare from the original mix is
    somewhat degraded. This means that you really need to use all the
    seperate outs for your drum mix - but then the envelopes are different.
    
    On the plus side though, having the mod doesn't affect the original
    outputs if you don't use them, so nothing is lost (provided you
    don't screw the thing up during the mod).
    
    Although the seperate outs don't sound exactly right, they do provide
    an alternative sound which can be useful.
    
    There may be further mods that I don't know about to make things
    better. I got my instructions from a magazine article.
    
    Andrew
    
    

    What exactly do you mean by "The envelopes are changed from the
    outs"?
    
    len.
    

    
    If you take the snare from the seperate out, it has a longer envelope
    and sounds a bit 'reversy'.
    
    That sort of thing....   I can't really remember because I haven't
    used them lately.
    
    Andrew
    
    

Sounds like Roland adds some sort of post compression/expansion envelope
to each sound, post mix of course.  This would explain their "better than 
life" sound that Len commented on some time back...

Todd.

I have a TR-505, JUNO 106, and a CZ-101.  Until last night I was able to
do the following:

	TR-MIDI-OUT to JUNO-MIDI-IN, JUNO-MIDI-THRU to CZ-MIDI-IN

	TR set-up to transmit note patterns to drive either of the
	synths based on MIDI Channel setting in all three units.

All was well, but then...

	Same config.

	TR off, JUNO works fine.

	TR on, JUNO either completely locked up (no keyboard transmitted
	sound, no patch change, no TR-transmitted sounds, nothing) or with
	the JUNO MIDI signal select switch set to ALL (I think), I'm able
	to do patch changes, but still with no sounds generated and upon
	pressing the MIDI button (like when you want to change the JUNO's
	MIDI channel number) everything freezes up.

	With TR off and JUNO on, press key on keyboard and hold, sound is
	generated.  While holding, turn TR on, lift finger, sound continues.
	Turn TR off, sound stops.

	Can still drive JUNO from CZ.  (CZ-MIDI-OUT to JUNO-MIDI-IN)

	Turning TR on produces a single cymbal "note" output, but all
	audio out and related TR functions appear to work fine.

All this started happening after attempting to connect

	TR-MIDI-OUT to CZ-MIDI-IN (Was using TR to creae a bass line on
	CZ and didn't want to go thru the JUNO)

	After much fiddling and diddling including resetting the TR (and
	losing my bass line!) I was able to make things work properly.
	But then (foolish me) I powered everything off and went to bed.
	This morning things were back to the problem condition and, of course,
	I have no idea how I "corrected" the problem.

Any ideas?

Thanks,
John

    Just a thought...
    
    Make note of your power-up sequence. Some devices generate MIDI
    messages that are full of boogers when they are turned on and that
    bungles everything down-line...
    
    I'd suggest powering up the TR, then the Juno the the sleazy 101.
    
    Might work...
    
    Edd

It never used to matter what the sequence was.  I'm afraid that the TR's
little MIDI brain is gazortched.  Although, I was able to get it into a
working state.  It's difficult to diagnose without something that displays
the MIDI messages being transmitted.  Unfortunately, all I have is a 
Rainbow (now let's see, where was that MIDI to RS232 adapter?)

John

    My uneducated guess is that if the power-up doesn't change anything,
    see if you can drive the Juno from the CZ.  If the Juno has a problem,
    maybe it will also occur when driven by the CZ.
    
    Steve

Thanks Steve, but CZ to JUNO link seems to work just fine.  From the
CZ I can "play" the JUNO, change patches, etc.

John

Home again, let's try to figure this out just one more time...

Now let's see, I've tried every combination of switch and connection except
swapping the cables around.  Of course it couldn't be the cables.  Why would
I even bother with such a trivial possibility.  Oh well, I might as well...

(I remember back at C-MU, the 360 kept crashing with no particulary predictable
pattern.  Turned out that a frayed cable was shorting out to the rear door
of the cab.  Slight movements of the door would open or close the short.
Lots of high-powered time went into that solution.)

Took the cable apart, can't find the problem, but swapping it sure fixed
it.

Thanks for your thoughts...

John

    
    Is there an infinite repeat function on the 505 *other* than the
    last measure of a track looping back to measure #1?
    
    The old Dr. Rhythm DR-110 had a feature where you loaded your track
    (say 8 bars) at the beginning of the track memory.  Then you could
    go to the end of track memory, say bar 127, and load a two bar intro.
    
    On playback, you started at bar 127, it would play 2 bars, jump
    to bar 1, play until bar 8, jump back to bar 1, etc.
    
    The only way I see to do a similar thing in the 505 is to have the
    2 bar intro up front, load the 8 bars, then cut and paste as many
    repetitions as you like.  
    
    Also, is there a way to *disable* the repeating function so that
    after the last measure, the machine stops instead of returning to
    bar #1?  The manual doesn't discuss this at all.  Or. for that matter,
    how to specify a *new* last measure within a song that is *earlier*
    than the old last measure.
    
    

    Hmmmm.  Seems to me you can use the LINK (or is it GROUP? ... something
    like that) function to group measures so that you can access, say,
    four measures as a block and take up less space on a track.  I use
    BLOCK (a temporary version of this) when I'm working on a lick.
    Since I usually dump to a sequencer, I've forgotten some of what
    the features are.
    
    Steve

    I picked up a used 505 at Daddy's Nashua yesterday - very cheap.
    Unfortunately, no documentation. Half an hour with it (and experience
    with an old Dr Rythm) got me most of the way, but I managed to generate
    many questions. Wandering thro' the notes yielded by keywords (TR505
    and DRUM_Machine) answered a few - sort of.
    
    Can anyone possible lend me a manual for a very brief while so I can
    figure all that this toy can do? Else maybe answer a few questions
    (which might generate a few more...)...
    
    How are sequences chained? (havenet figured out the right buttons to
    push) What are blocks? How do they differ from chains? Why? How can
    sequences be set to an arbitrary length (<16 measures)? How are midi
    channels set per voice? How is copy accomplished? what goes out the
    midi port (or can go out)?
    
    More than enuf for now...any help/advice appreciated!
    
    /jimi

    Well, more pseudo-random button pushing and deduction allowed me to
    figure out the 'measure length setting', 'copy/ins/del', 'midi note #'.
    Still beaten by the button sequence for chain/block. However, someone
    has kindly offered me a copy of the manual...commusicians are indeed a
    great bunch of people..
    
    /jimi