Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Haven't seen an FB01 yet but there's a review in the new Keyboard.
    Sounds like more bang for your buck with the one problem being that
    you need a computer (or possibly another synth?) to program your
    own sounds.
    
    Rob
    

Beside the keyboard, there are differences between the DX100 and the FB01.
Yes, they are both 4 operator sound generators, but from what I understand,
the FB01 is based on the CX5M architecture which differs from the DX100 
architecture (I don't know what the exact differences are).

The FB01 is multitimbral, the DX100 is not.
The DX100 is programmable w/o a computer, the FB01 is not.
I'm not sure whether the FB01 has a pitch envelope, but the DX100 does not
(the DX21 does tho - I thought the only difference between the DX21 and the
DX100 was the key size and key split ability.  Boy was I wrong.  The DX21
also has a stereo chorus!)

Does the FB01 respond to velocity info?

One last thought: Since my studio is too cluttered with stuff to use it
	(remodeling some of the house), I have been able to continue to
	play the DX100 by ploping it in my lap down in the living room
	and porting it through the stereo.  I think it weighs 7 pounds.
	Also, when I go on vacation, I pack it up and bring it with me - 
	it can even be run off batteries and monitored with headphones.  
	So the DX100 wins the portability contest...
   
Todd.

    RE:-1
    The DX100 is suposed to be the same as DX27 not DX21.
    As far as I know both FB01 and DX100 respond to toutch data, so
    that far they should be the same, I also tought that the programing
    should be the same but I am not sure. I have a DX100 already and
    like it a lot. Hopefully this week or next week I will receive a
    FB01 that I have ordered from Paris if it does not get blown up
    before they send it. I can have a look in the manual then and post
    what I find about programing and other stuff of interest.
    
    Svein.
    

>    As far as I know both FB01 and DX100 respond to toutch data, so

I don't think the DX100 responds to touch data, just velocity.  I guess
if you have a smart controller, it can send touch data as modulation 
or pitch bend data though and the DX100 will respond accordingly...

Todd.

    Sorry my fault, I mixed up velocity and touch. Still when the FB01
    arrives I will try to find the differences DX100/DX27/DX21/FB01.
    
    Thanks for the correction Todd.
    
    Svein.
    

No problem Svein.  Geez, someone who knows about all the 4-operator
DX's (DX100,DX27,DX21,FB01) is a valuable resource.  I'm looking forward
to your contrasting these units...

Thanks...

Todd.

    
    
    Well Guys I went out and bought an FB01 yesterday and I'me pretty
    impressed. The unit is based on the SFg05 tone module which is based
    on the DX21/27/100 4 operator tone module (quote YAMAHA). It does
    everything the book say's and all in such a small box. I'me not
    sure I'me capable of a Fehskens type review but if there is a need
    I'll post one here.
    
    		       Paul.
    		 

    OK, please give us a review, it will be nice reading while I'm
    waiting for mine. Already I see a big difference in the price that
    the different shops charge for it ranging from 2500 FF (which is
    what I pay) and up to 3100 FF which I think is the list price.
    
    I hope I will get mine soon.
    
    Svein.
    

RE: .7  Paul, does it have chorusing?  Does it have a pitch envelope?

Todd.

    
    Clear up the confusion about velocity and after touch (pressure)
    response(s) too, if possible.

    How are you programming it? I hear that in addition to the 240
    presets, there are 96 user-editable programs. True?
    
    RR
    

    
    
    I knew it was a mistake to announce my latest aquisition this early.
    
    Let's just say that my unit has now been in my posession for 2 days.
    
    I requried it to add some more FM voices to my pallette, the 200
    or so that you get with the box are great. I will eventually program
    the machine with my CX5 when Yamaha produce the software (quote
    from my supplier:- "next month or so but don't hold your breath").
    
    I auditioned the unit with a KX88 keyboard and it played softer
    when I "carressed" it and louder when I bashed it. I don't have
    a velocity sensitive keyboard at the moment, this is next on my list.
    Any ideas anyone? I can't decide whether to go for another synth
    or a mother keyboard.
    
    The FB01 does all that I wanted. From a voice programming point of view
    it is exactly the same as a DX21 except there is an extras parameter
    which relates to the key velocity and I think the volume enevlope
    however more on this when the Yam software is available. 
    
    As a straight performance expander the ability to split a number
    of performance settings along the keyboard must be great however
    I am unlikey to use it in this mode. I will use it sequenced from
    my CX5.
    
    I also borrowed a Qx7 from the shop just on a try out basis. I must
    say that from a user point of view this thing was a nightmare. I
    know that Edd has one so perhaps I could solicit an answer to the
    following from him. I use my sequencer as a songwriting notebook
    I start with a basic Idea and build from there. e.g. first 8 bars
    of each instrument. Chain this to itself then add say a middle 8.
    
    On the Qx7, if I already have the first 16 bars recorded and placed
    on track2, how can I build up the next 8 bars and listen to the
    instruments playing together, because track 2 is taken up by the
    previous 16 bars and I need to copy the first instrument to the
    end of this 16 bars before I can record the 2nd. 
    
    Do you understand this problem statement ? If not let me know.
    
     
                             Confused of Manchester.
    
    

    I think I understand the problem....
    
    You have 16 bars on track 2. These bars consist of 1 or more tracks
    (say a piano and a bass track). Now you want to do X number of bars
    starting with 17, but have no place to put the 1st pass because
    track 2 has the first 16 on it. 
    
    You have 2 choices...
    
                  1. (Slow, tedious and precise) Leave the 1st 16 bars
                     on track 2. Start the sequencer in real time record
                     and listen to track 2. Start playing on bar 17.
                     When finished, listen to both tracks. If happy,
                     *track down*. This will have the same effect as
                     chaining, with the advantage being you can listen
                     to the parts consequetively. Had you started 
                     recording on Track 1 measure 1, you would not
                     be able to listen to the new part following the
                     old. This method affords you the advantage of
                     quantization, if your timing is sloppy. (like mine)
    
            Option 2. (fast, but you better be good) Move the contents
                     of track 2 to track 1 and then to the temporary
                     buffer (Job D2). Now you can start playing on
                     measure 1. DO NOT QUANTIZE!!!!!!! When you quantize
                     track 1, the unchanged data is shipped to the temp
                     buffer *DESTROYING* any data residing there. (This
                     may seem like a bit of a hassle (and it is) but
                     it does give you the oppurtunity to get your original
                     data back if you Q to a bad value.
    
    SYSTEM GOING DOWN! WILL FINISH LATER...
    
    Edd

    False alarm...
    
    OK, like I said, if you have any data in the temp buffer, it will
    be destroyed by quantizing, so anything you record on track 1
    had better be tight. If it is, move it to track 2. Lay down the
    second part on track 1. Listen to both together. If happy, track
    down (Job B3). Now move the data out of the temporary buffer to
    track 1. Exchange (Job B1) tracks 1 and 2. The first sixteen bars
    are now on track 2 and bars 17 - n are on 1. Chain 'em together....
    
    If your working in step mode, things are somewhat easier. As you'll
    never have to quantize, you can just move finished measures to the
    temp buffer.
    
    Un-advertised feature. The QX allows you to start recording in the
    middle of a song in real time mode. Heres how....
    
    Lets assume you want to add those next 8 bars to the end of the
    first 16. The first 16 are on track 2 and your all set to record
    on track 1. Start record mode while listening to track 2, but don't
    do anything, just let it play until track 2 stops at the end of
    bar 16. Now hit pause and back up a couple bars. If you now press
    record and Pause/Continue the machine will start recording from
    the point you backed up to. Play you next part. If you bungle,
    hit pause and back up a couple bars and hit record and continue.
    This method allows you to start recording a part in the middle of
    a song. I saw nothing in the manual about this feature, and it's
    probably the one I use the most.
    
    If I do say so myself, I've got this beast mastered. I hope I answered
    your question. Lemme know if I can be of any more help.....
    
    Edd
    
    

    
    Well thank you sir, I'll try the last one tonight. But all this sure
    makes my CX5 system look simple. I'd also be interested in how you
    store patch changes. Perhaps we should move my ineptitude to another
    note.
    
    			Paul.

    Patch changes? Easy as pie....
    
    Although it is unnecessary to do so, I highly recommend putting
    your patch changes in last. This gives you the oppurtunity to
    change your mind later...
    
    Anyhow, to the QX a patch change is just another message. I always
    enter mine in step mode, so they happen *precisely* where I want
    them to. Just press the button that addresses the patch you want
    at the apprpriate time and the sequencer will go to that address
    (address:== bank and voice) upon playback.
    
    *IMPORTANT* The QX refers to the address, *NOT* the patch. If you
    nomally have, say, a guitar patch at address B2-V7 (Bank 2, voice
    7) and change it to something else, your gonna get the something
    else at playback time.
    
    *HOT TIP* Always have a patch change as the first event in a song.
    That way, you'll always start on the right voice.
    
    I even use the QX's "midi echo" (Job C1) as a way of playing either
    my Mirage or JX from the DX. I also store patch changes for the
    Roland on it.
    
    *'NOTHER HOT TIP!* Use of midi-echo mode will cut in half the number
    of simutaneous voices available on a DX. The DX 21 has 8 oscillators.
    Split mode = 4 to each side. Split plus "echo on" equals 2 to each
    side, maximum. They're getting played from 2 places....
    
    Edd 

    
    
    Well Edd what can I say. This is a real justification for having
    this notes file running. I had alrady packed the Qx7 ready to ship
    it back to the shop. I dug it out of the packing again last night
    to try the things you suggested and lo and behold !!!
    
    I really can't understand why Yam didn't publish this method in
    the userguide. How did you find it. Thanks for the info on the patch
    changes I have however on more problem which I am not sure is fixable.
    
    On the Fb01 I have 7 banks of 48 voices each. The only straight
    Midi keyboard I have is the Cz1000. When I change patches on the
    CZ it has no effect on the Bank number on the Fb at all and worse
    still The voices in the CZ seem to be numbered 1-16 33-48 etc which
    means that I can't get at any of the voices in the 17-32 range at
    all. Any ideas?
    
    				Yours Strandedly Paul.
    

    I can only guess at a couple things...
    
    1.  In order for me to transmit patch-change commands from my DX to
    the JX (via the QX) I must have...
    
              A. Midi Echo (Job C6?) set to on. Note that this is
                 only necessary to change patches in real time. If
                 your intent is only to store a patch change command
                 in a sequence, it can be set to off. MIDI-echo
                 directs all data from the IN port to the OUT port.
             
              B. Chanell and System exclusive data set properly 
                 on the DX. I forget what the proper set-up is, but
                 I do know one is set to "off" and the other is set
                 to "on". (I think it's chanell info "off" and system
                 info "on", but don't hold me to it. I set it once
                 and never went back.
    
              C. Should go without saying. Are your chanells set properly?
                 Make sure device X is set to receive on the same chanell
                 the data intended for it was transmitted on. (Don't
                 laugh, I got beat-up on this a couple times!)
    
    As far as the way different units have their banks set up, I'm afraid
    your on your own. My DX has 4X8, but they're arranged logically
    as 2X16. The JX has 4X16. The patch addresses of the DX map 1:1 to
    the first 2 banks of the JX, but I have yet to be able to access
    the 3rd and 4th JX banks. And to make matters more confusing, I
    have the Mirage placed between the 2 in the MIDI network. The Mirage
    responds to commands sent from the DX, but I haven't taken the time
    to really figure out how to control it (Mirage) via MIDI. Samples
    take about 15 seconds to load, so I'm not really saving much by
    doing it over the buss.
    
    A couple of other things on the QX... Deleting a measure will insert
    an "all notes off" message at the end of the previous bar. While
    this does prevent stuck notes, it also prevents you from removing
    middle bars in sustaining notes...
    
    ex...
         |  o  |   o   |  x   x  |
    
    |:== bar line
    o:== whole note
    x:== half note
                
    Suppose the first three notes above had been tied together. (2.5
    measures of one note followed by .5 measures of the second.) You
    cannot delete measure 2 in the hopes of getting 1.5 measures follwed
    by .5. You'll get 1 measure of note, a half rest, and a half note.
    
    You also cannot start a measure with a tie. (Using the above example,
    you could get the desired results by deleting the first measure,
    but this would only work if it contained *only* whole notes. Had
    measure 1 consisted of 2 half notes, with the second tied to the
    second measure your sequence whould be
    
              half note, half note, half rest, half note.
    
    Not having ever used any other sequencer, I can't vouch for the
    relative ease of use of the QX. But with a little bit of planning
    I've sequenced stuff like "Sirius/Eye In The Sky" by Alan Parsons,
    "Four Brothers" by Jimmy Giuffre and "Sonata #2 for Piano and Violin"
    by Mozart.
    
    Good luck. Lemme know if you find anything on changing to the non-
    Yamaha address banks.
    
    Glad to help!
    
    Edd
    
    

    re .16 - I think you're stuck unless you get some sort of outboard
    remapping device or a different keyboard.  The "holes" in the CZ-101
    patch address space (MIDI program change numbers 16-31, 48-63, etc.)
    are there because the CZ-101 uses the same memory organization as
    its bigger brothers, which store twice as many patches.  I think this
    was done to make the memory cartridges compatible, and it is a pain.
    
    len.
    

    
    Thanks again for your help Edd and sorry to everyone else for boring
    you with this saga. I think the base problem lies with the voice
    groupings on the CZ1000. I wonder if I can do the patch changes with
    the TR505 or the RX21.
    
    I think you hit the nail on the head with your statement re "A bit
    of planning" The beauty of the computer based system is that you
    don't have to plan ahead to much. 
    
    				Thanks Again 
    					Paul.

    
    Stop grovelling, Paul. Myself, and I'm sure others are
    interested in the information, techniques, etc.. that
    are coming out of "confusion resolution" discussions.
    
    Ron
    

Well, this is the only note under the keyword CZ1000...

I've had a CZ1000 as the keyboard in my modest home setup:

	Fostex X15 4-track
	Acoustic Guitar, Electric, and Bass
	Rockman Soloist
	TR505
	MidiVerb II

The CZ1000 has been a workhorse for me, but last week it started acting up.  At
first I could get sound back by giving it one swift punch across the back.  But
last night it konked out while I was in the middle of laying down an organ
track.  Can't get any sound out of it now, except for a high hissing sound,
sometimes a grunting static as well.  Possibly a nice effect on a song about
jungle living, but I don't know...

NOW what do I do??  Sure, sounds like a great excuse to buy that Roland D20
I've been thinking about, but well...I can't afford it.  Just bought a new
house.

Do I bring it in to a shop around here--Daddy's is the closest, although
their repair shop is in Salem.  Or should I try to call a Casio repair center?
Is there such a thing as a Casio repair center?

How can I convince my wife that it's time I invested in a "real" keyboard? Oops.
that question just slipped in.  I *know* we can't afford it.  Really.  I do.

Peter

    Does it have a headphone output? Same grundge there???
    
    Does it have a magic key-stroke sequence to re-init?? Try that??
    
    Open it up? Look for something stupid?? (Broken wire to audio out?)
    
    Wiggle some wires? Tap things lightly with a plastic screwdriver??
    
    Do it work over MIDI??
    
    I've gotten to the point where the first thing I do is open the
    offending unit up and check it out. The only thing I haven't been
    able to repair was my MKS-30 which needed a custom IC. (And even that
    was easy for the repair shop as I documented all my diag's...They went
    right to the problem.)
    
    I can field strip an HR16 in under a minute...
    
    Edd

With any luck, this one should be fixable ala Edd's suggestions in the last
response.  I'll add my own 2 cents:  Open it up and re-seat all the internal
connectors.  That means unplug and re-plug everything.   I would do this to all
inter-board connections and all board-to-world connections.  Especially since
hitting the unit used to fix it, you may simply have a tarnished connector
somewhere.

P.S.  At this time of year, take static precautions.  For this type of unit
that can be as basic as making sure that you hold onto some metal part of the
unit that is "ground" with one hand whilst working on it.   Of course you have
the unit unplugged from EVERYTHING while doing this.

	Eirikur

Okay, this helps.  I did take the back off the unit and looked things over
and nothing "obvious" jumped out at me.  Then, I lost my nerve a bit and 
put it back together.  It worked for a short time and then died again.

This problem affects both the Line Out and the Headphone Out.  I can select
different patches and change parameters (the LED responds with the changes) 
even when the thing is lying their dead.

When it came back, each time all my own sounds were still available so I 
don't think it's a software problem.  I think I'll spend some time on the 
connections as you suggested.  Must be somewhere close to where the signal
heads over toward the out jacks, kind of late in the stream.   Also,
one of the first times it happened, it started working again right after
I inserted a sound cartridge.  So, I'll also look in that area.

Good comment on the static--I've been experiencing a lot of that
recently--it can actually hurt when I drag my foot accidentally across the 
carpet with the headphones on--ouch! 

Peter 

 

    You're on the right track.
    
    I'd open it up, turn it on, and start gently taping things with a
    plastic screwdriver to try and induce the problem. Don't forget to
    tap the wires also, not just the components.
    
    Edd

    Before you do that, go to your onsite FE and borrow an anti-static kit,
    and have him show you how to use it.
    
    If you don't have an onsite FE (or he doesn't have a kit to spare)
    go to Radio Shack and get an anti-static wrist band, and clip yourself
    to the metal case (disconnected from everything else) before you open
    the bugger up.
    
    Also run the humidifier/vaporizer for a few hours before you open the
    case up, remove all synthetic-fiber clothing, and do the work on a 
    bare (unvarnished) wood (or, even better, metal) tabletop.
    
    [For the ultimate in static protection, wear the wrist-band/groundwire
    and _nothing_ else...  I actually bought some "install-em-yourself" PC 
    RAM chips once that this was the "preferred-best" procedure.  They did 
    make a comment about "be real careful about solder dribbles if you 
    do this".  :-) They also recommended covering the tabletop with aluminum
    foil- seems bizarre, but the RAMs still work fine, 4 years later.  ]
    
    	-Bill

        Not sure this has anything to do with it, but last night, my
        well used cz101 (which i got from rodney who got from len) locked
        up in strange fashion - i could not affect any change parameters.
        Power up and down did not do it. Finally, and regretably as i
        had not saved the weekend patches to nvr i hit the re-init all
        presets button. This re-enabled the beast, but broke my spirit
        and i quit for the night.
        

                bs
                

Well, with help from you folks, I built up my confidence and opened the sucker.  
I thought I was on to something when I was able to induce the problem 
(sometimes) by tapping one of the boards.  Unfortunately, that particular board 
holds about five chips and about 800 tiny solder connections (slight 
exaggeration, but you get the point).  The problem could be anywhere on that 
board.

So, my next step was to get on the phone to Casio.  Using the numbers listed
by Alex Conn back in the Manufacturer's info note, I was able to get the number
of a Casio-authorized service center in South Windsor, CT.  They're called
PROSOUND and it's going to cost me some money to mail the CZ-1000 down there
and have it fixed.  Their hourly rates remind me of the rates mechanics get
at new car dealerships, but they are recommend by Casio for synth repair. 

Anyone out there have any experience with PROSOUND in Connecticut?  Any similar
experiences getting synths repaired at "authorized" service centers?  

Peter

    If it were me, I'd spend a little bit more time tapping and wiggling
    wires before shipping it to anyone. My experience has been these
    problems are usually something mechanical, like a bad solder joint.
    My Mirage failed once and I found the bad joint by examining the
    power supply board with a 45mm ocular.
    
    The problem with these type of failures is you end up paying someone
    else to do the legwork. I'd like to see you save your cash...
    
    Edd

Well, Edd.  I'll say this much.  You've helped me "clarify" the situation.  With
your renewed encouragement fresh on my mind, I opened up the CZ-1000 again.
This time, I even removed several screws and lifted up one of the boards, 
looking for loose connectsions and such.

Well, I couldn't find anything that resembled a problem, so I put it back
together again.  Somewhere along the way, I must have touched something I 
shouldn't have because now this baby's got some artificial intelligence! I mean
lights are flashing and strange characters are flashing in the display window.

I did good...

Now I can send it my authorized Casio repair center, fully assured that I'm 
doing the right thing.  Without this latest happening I would have mailed it 
out, paid a lot of money, and always wondered if I could have fixed it myself.
Now, I can sleep better knowing very well that I couldn't!  :) 

But seriously, Edd, thanks for trying to help. I have a feeling that my 
opening the box didn't really cause the latest symptoms--this problem had 
progressed from a momentary dropout while playing to a full-scale system failure 
all on its own over a couple of weeks.  This latest light show may just be the 
final stage in its degeneration!  

For those of you wondering, I did try re-initializing, but that had no affect.
Only a certified repairman can find this one!  

I'll be sure to give a review of PROSOUND's service when this is all over.
I'm still considering, however, putting the CZ aside and putting the 
potential repair money toward a future purchase.  The only question is whether 
I can do without a keyboard for that long a time...

		...now if I use two-part harmonies in place of my 
		string parts for a while...

Peter

    Um, I, ah, I, oh my...
    
    Well, sorry about the death of your machine. Hope ya don't hold me
    responsible!! ;^)
    
    ...the good side is you've got a HARD failure now. So much easier to
    troubleshoot than some intermittant booger...
    
    Edd

 
>  Hope ya don't hold me responsible!! ;^)

No way. I'm the one that opened it up. If it had worked out and I'd found a 
loose wire or something and saved $100, you'd be a hero right now.  
Unfortunately, This thing was heading for some serious problems anyway! 

These things have a way of working out--this may be my motivation to start
really planning the future of my home studio and to start saving some serious
money toward a *major* purchase... 

Peter