Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I am using a computer-based sequencer, but I don't think you want
    to hear from me.  I agree with your analysis of the current state
    of purchasable software.  It was even worse when I was in the market,
    so I wrote my own sequencer for my Apple II.  It is slow and has
    a poor user interface, which isn't helped any by the low quality
    of the documentation.  It also can't hold enough notes.  I am waiting
    for the Amiga to mature to the point of being a useful system.
    I expect that to happen around Christmas.
        John Sauter

I suggest getting Keyboard's special MIDI issue that came out a few months
ago.  There is an article/chart within it that is very helpful in regard
to choosing sequencers.  It lists most of the current sequencer software
for computers and also the current sequencer hardware available.  It
compares sequencer features in a very organized fashion, and has been
very helpful to me (although I havn't made a purchase yet).  For the
C-64, the clear winner (for features) is the DR. T software, but those
features take up memory, so it has less note capacity than some of the 
others.

Also, don't forget that if you get a C-64, you need a MIDI interface.
These little gems are not cheap.  But if you want a patch librarian or
other MIDI stuff you're gonna need the MIDI interface anyways (~$150)
The combo (sequencer + interface) comes out to be ~$300.  If you don't
care about a patch librarian, I suggest getting one of the cheaper 
Roland or Yamaha sequencers for ~$175.

I suppose that one of the Roland or Yamaha sequencers is easier to use
than one of the computer driven ones too.  Plus you wouldn't have to 
strain your eyes looking at a tube.

Todd.

    
    I'm using a C64/Dr T setup right now and find it to be an excellent
    combination. I agree mostly with your current market analysis, although
    I think the Atari will come along probably a little faster than
    you think. A recent newsletter I received from Dr T's indicates
    that they firmly believe this is the machine to use. I expect that
    they will have a version of their sequencer available for the ST
    as soon as is humanly possible. You may want to check with them
    on the current status before you buy.
    
    Rob

re. -1

Two questions on the C64/Dr. T combination:

- What interface can you use with Dr. T's ? 
- Do they have any sound Librarian programs for the CZ series ?

zayed

Dr. T's offers (or "will" offer) the following for the C-64:

	KCS					$150.00
	MIDI interface				$90.00
	MIDI interface and KCS			$225.00
	Algorithmic Composer			$100.00
	DX Patches Volume I			$50.00
	Echo-Plus				$90.00
	Dr. Disks (Bach. Keys)			$30.00
	CZ-Rider (CZ editor available now)	$100.00
	The Dump! (dumps patches from just about anything)
						$100.00
	Graphic Rhythm Editor			$100.00
	Yamaha DX-100/27/21 Editor/Librarian	$100.00
	Oberheim Matrix-6 Editor/Librarian	$100.00
	Lexicon PCM-700 Editor/Librarian	$100.00
	Roland JX8P Editor/Librarian		$100.00


I got this stuff from their flyer.  KEYBOARD says the Dr. T interface should
work with Music Data, Passport, Moog and Sequential interfaces.  I haven't 
bought a sequencer, yet.  I'm looking at Passport's Master Tracks because it
has more note capacity and seems to have some other features I want that are 
not available on Dr. T's C64 version.  Dr. T packs extra features and note 
capacity on their C128 version.

By the way, I would be interested in seeing a "hands on" comparison of Master 
Tracks versus Dr. T's stuff.

Steve

    
    Dr. T's works with Passport compatible and their own interface (made
    by Sequential). They actually have a couple of librarian/editors
    for CZs now, their own and the CZ-rider program (originally offered
    by another company but now part of their line). They also have a
    bank switchable cartridge for the CZ which gives you 64 patches
    in one cartridge. 
    
    RE: .5 
    How much note capacity and what other features does Master Tracks
    have. I'd also love to see a comparison. I'd be willing to compare
    against my Dr. T's, but I don't have any access to Master Tracks.
    Anybody using it yet?
              
    Rob

RE: .5

Are you looking to run Master Tracks on the C64 or 128?

Todd.

From what documentation I have (KEYBOARD and ads), I'm aware of the following 
differences (not comprehensive):


Feature				Dr. T		Master Tracks
-------------------------------	---------------	--------------------		

Note Capacity			4500		8000
Interfaces			Several		Passport only
Simult. Tracks 			35		8
Midi filtering			All parameters	Attack only
Global shift and transpose edit	Included	Not Included
Locator functions (rew,ff,etc.)	Not Included	Included
Sync codes (besides MIDI)	Any std. pulse 	Reads/writes var. tape pulses
						using Passport interface
Song construction		Hierch. chain	"Drum machine" style		


The Dr. T C128 version basically includes the "best" of both worlds with nearly 
12000 note capacity for $225.  It can use the tape sync capability of the 
Passport or Syntech interfaces among other things.  Of course, to use it you 
need to shell out $450 to get a C128 and drive.

I don't plan to buy a C128, so I'm only considering the C64 version of Master 
Tracks.  However, it might be interesting to see what other features a C128
version of Master Tracks would offer.

Steve

Does Master Tracks work in real time mode as well as step time mode?

I believe Dr. T's does...

Todd.

re 486.9: Master Tracks and Dr. T both input in real, step and loop modes.

    Amiga owners enviously following this discussion of C64 software
    might be interested in the C64 emulator now available for the Amiga.
    I am going to look into this (STILL no sequencer software from
    Mimetics, although my MC-500 has taken a *lot* of the heat off)
    and report on what I find.
    
    len.
    

Let me know when they come up with an Amiga emulator for the C64 ;^)

Todd.

    I'll write you one if it doesn't have to go fast...
    
    Seriously, I once responded to a Sandia Corporation (they do a lot
    of H bomb stuff) RFP for DECSystem-10 based CDC7600 simulator. 
    It was the only way they could debug their 7600 software!
    
    len.
    

I've just come back from spending a week in London (vacation) where I spent
some time calling up stores and enquiring as to what Sequencer Software they
were selling for a commodore C64.

It became quickly obvious that very little of the U.S. software has found its
way over here and what has doesn't seem to be selling very much. The following
is a summary of what the situation is like around London based on phone calls
to 20 different music stores and a visit to 4. Things may be different 
elsewhere but I wonder...

- Most shops are pushing hardware-based sequencers (Roland, Yamaha etc)
  and seemed to have given up on software !!

- Steinberg's Pro-24 for Atari ST : 

  Seems like the hottest thing at the moment. The keyboard player with Dire 
  Straits is using it (at least on the add). I didn't look at this one at all
  as I don't have an Atari.

- Steinberg's Pro-16 for C64 :

  Most popular, available, recommended, friendly and cheapish sequencer.
  You can do (almost) everything with it and I was going to buy one until I
  was told that it had "problems" with a CZ1000 using MIDI Mono Mode (where
  you can assign a different voice to four consecutive MIDI channels 
  i.e. multi-timbral). I intend to check this out using my CZ101 and a friend's
  Pro-16.

  The Pro-16 sync and interface cards were a let-down. Both are FULLY EXPOSED
  circuit boards !! The sync card offers DIN sync but via a jack-plug ! The
  interface is MIDI in and 2 outs only. (Also works with Passport interface).

- C-Labs Supertracks (German like the Steinberg)

  I got to see a demo of this one. Very similar in functionarlity and layout 
  to Steinberg's Pro-16. A new product that most shops hadn't heard about but 
  the two that did either had an interface that didn't work or the were sent
  documentation in German.

  Nicely packaged interface and sync cards but expensive (about 110 pounds vs.
  45 for the pro-16). Works with Steinberg or Passport interface.

  Sync card pretty comprehensive with DIN sync, to/from tape sync.

  Interface had MIDI in, and 3 outs, 1 or 2 (can't recall) are switchable to
  thru.

- Dr. T

  Only one place had heard of it, called it very unfriendly compared
  to Steinbergs Pro-16. "No demo available but we can order it."

- Syntech

  The same store said it only sold 2 copies in six months and blamed the 
  musicians for not understanding what MIDI was all about !! Again,
  "No demo available but we can order it."

As for patch librarians/sound editors, even fewer to be found. The 
recommended one was again something by Steinberg that graphically displayed 
the envelopes, allowed copying of an envelope and so forth. "No demo available
but we can order it." 

So..... I bought nothing. I certainly liked what could be done using the 
Pro-16. I will see if it works with the CZ101 and then decide. 

All in all, it looks like the market around London is very limited in both 
the knowledge and availability of U.S. software. Things are certainly not any
better here in Switzerland. 

Has anybody used the Steinberg Pro-16 ?

Zayed

	This month's issue (Vol 10, #3) of Computer Music Journal
	has several outstanding articles. The one I'd like to mention
	in this note is entitled "MIDI and the Apple Macintosh"
	by Christopher Yavelow. This is easily the best review of
	sequencer software for the MAC I have seen.

	It is similar to the huge Keyboard foldout-chart extravaganza,
	but focuses exclusively on the MAC. Mr. Yavelow seems very
	well informed, and writes in a level-headed style which is
	so refreshing after all the gushing sales-plugs written up 
	in Keyboard, et al.

	The article is divided into four sections:

	1. Introductory and general comments
		This section talks about MIDI sequencer issues in general.
		Mainly, what is important for productivity, how different
		features can help you to be more productive.
	
		He also discusss his procedure and "philosophy" in 
		reviewing these packages, so you can get an idea where
		he's coming from.
	
	2. Reviews
		Short reviews of the following packages for the MAC:

		Package				Company
		----------------------------------------------------
		Performer			Mark of the Unicorn
		Total Music			Southworth
		MIDIMAC Sequencer		Opcode
		MegaTracks XL, MIDIWorks	Musicworks
		Concertware + MIDI Writer	Great Wave Software
		Deluxe Music Construction Set	Electronic Arts
		MusicWorks			Hayden Software
		StudioMac			Creative Solutions
		MIDI Composer			Assimilation
	
		He also talks about KIT and MIDI Lisp, which are oriented
		towards algorithmic composition.

	3. Comparison charts
		Pages and Pages of comparison charts, covering and
		cross-referencing all kinds of features of the 
		packages mentioned above.

	4. Recommendation/Perspective
		This part discusses ten areas to think about when
		selecting this kind of software. It is mercifully
		un-coercive! That is, its comments are mostly there 
		to put things into perspective, and to outline what
		features are necessary to support certain capabilities.
		
	I've been thinking about getting a Mac+ for a while; now I'm 
	just waiting for a good deal. Anyone else with a Mac or
	thinking of getting a computer for music should check this out!

							Scot

    Can someone point me to the aforementioned "Keyboard foldout-chart
    extravaganza?"  If it's not readily available, dare I ask that someone
    photocopy it for me?
    
    Thanks.
    

I'll loan you mine, if you promise to return it.  I have it here and can send
it through DECmail.

Steve

    
    	The fold-out is in the special Keyboard Magazine MIDI issue.
     This is still being advertized in current Keyboard issues.  However,
    by now, some of it will be out of date.
    
							- Karl
    
    p.s. Older issues of CJM are available in Cambridge (tech square)
    in the MIT bookstore.

     And that's the MIT Press Bookstore, not the MIT Coop, right?
    My copy of the Tom Janzen issue of CMJ came in the mail yesterday,
    he mentioned off-handedly, but the article was too dense to read
    while entertaining my two-year-old (he thought it should have had
    more pictures of animals). I intend to think of something perceptive
    to say about it this evening.
    
    -John