| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 430.1 | "Blend Trend" & "A001-R" | BARNUM::RHODES | | Fri Jul 11 1986 12:38 | 117 |
| I submitted two works - "Blend Trend" and "A001-R". Both were a bit
experimental, and were done mainly as a learning experiment.
I. "Blend Trend"
o Intended audience:
The intended audience was primarily myself. The song was
composed and recorded in a few hours, and was intended to
be a learning experience.
o Musical goals:
This song was recorded as a learning vehicle with the
following goals:
1. Investigate "flowing" guitar textures using only
an echo box, and introducing no sustain or dis-
tortion. It was also a goal to investigate the
stereo "recordingness" of this particular texture.
2. Motivate myself further through the achievment
of the above goal.
o Technical goals:
1. Acquaint myself with some newly acquired
recording gear consisting of 2 reel-to-reel
decks and a 6->2 mixer. This is the first
piece I had created using somthing other
than 2-track cassette bouncing (noisy).
o Nongoals:
This song was NOT recorded as a production piece or income
generator ($$$).
o Known Inprovements:
1. The bass line is ineffective as it is just guitar played
on the low E string. It should be noted that the only
instrument I owned at the time was a guitar.
2. If I were to re-record the song now, I would add
one synth track aside from a new bass track. I think
that this would make the piece more interesting, even
though I like its rather simple nature.
o What I would like to know from the reviewers:
1. Do I succeed in capturing a "flowing" texture? How
better could this have been achieved? Would a reverb
unit have helped the (rather dry) drum track?
2. My feeling is that a simple piece should be short and
to the point. Does the length of the piece complement
its musical content?
3. Would the addition of a third track (strings?) help
the piece any?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
II. "A001-R"
o Intended audience:
Again, the intended audience was myself. This song was
composed and recorded in one day, and like "Blend Trend",
was intended to be a learning experience.
o Musical goals:
This song was recorded as a learning vehicle with the
following intended musical goal:
1. Learn to use the "multi-timbral" qualities
of a guitar and guitar synthesizer to create
an interesting bass-lead-harmony combination.
o Technical goals:
1. The main technical goal was to experiment with
a new instrument, the Arp Avatar. The entire
guitar/guitar_synth track was performed in
real time in one take, utilizing a sustain
pedal to freeze the synthesizer in a particular
state.
2. Another goal was to use the Arp sequencer to
sequence a drum part for the first time, and
keep it from sounding too repetitive by adding
a realtime drum track.
o Nongoals:
Same as "Blend Trend"
o Known Inprovements:
1. All mixing was done through headphones. I have found
this to be a no-no. Works mixed through headphones
sound good on headphones, not speakers. Listen to this
one with headphones, folks.
2. If I were to re-record the song now, I would add
some reverb to the drum tracks.
o What I would like to know from the reviewers:
1. Is the piece boring? (C'mon, be honest.)
Would the addition of a track or two spice it up?
Todd Rhodes.
|
| 430.2 | Here Here | ERLANG::FEHSKENS | | Fri Jul 11 1986 13:49 | 9 |
| Great idea Todd. My liner notes (for my stuff which will show
up on tape 2) contains a "wimpout disclaimer" at the beginning that
tries to get at just these issues. It starts with a statement to
the effect of "many misunderstandings are rooted in mistaken
assumptions about goals...". Most people assume other peoples'
goals are the same as their own.
len.
|
| 430.3 | Dave Bottom tries to remember | ALAGSH::BOTTOM_DAVID | | Fri Jul 11 1986 14:07 | 91 |
| Well I'll try to see if I know what my goals are/were when I recorded
this stuff....
All of this stuff is demo/experimental as I use the tape deck as
a sounding board to develop ideas.
Just for kicks:
This was the second attempt at recording this piece.
I know the weakest part is the vocals, I'm currently suffering from
whatever it's called when you can't sing in tune even though it
sounds to you as if you are (previously discussed in MUSIC.NOTE).
So don't feel bashful about commenting on it if you feel it's required.
I write for a rock & roll audience, primarily the heavy blues style.
This is a demo attempt I did to teach the song to my last band (now
defunct) I don't believe that a tascam 234 can be seriously used
for anything else. But it does a nice job on demos.
I learned alot about how to streach a four track with this song.
It has drums, rhythm guitar, lead guitar, bass synth, and vocals.
I mixed the drums and rhythm guitar onto one track to make the room
for the rest. I recorded the vocals through my Fender studio lead
clean channel to get reverb, but the sound became somewhat tinney.
I need reverb!! (heard a midiverb last night envy envy:-)
Sometimes you hurt your friends-
I'd love to sell this (with some lyrical work that I have been toying
with) to Tina Turner. Comments?
This was written and recorded before noon one saturday and not touched
since.
I'd replace the synth strings with a Stevie Windwood (a la Gimme
some lovin') style organ.
No reverb on the vocals and they are very dry and lifeless...I was
trying for a gritty rock and roll kind of feel, not sure I have
that kind of a voice.
The guitar solo needs work..but it's a first take so I don't feel
bad.
Audience?? the same as always heavy blues rockers.
Bridge to nowhere:
Seriously, I bought my JX3-P to finish this idea, I got the idea
playing with a JX at EU Wurliters in Newington NH while waiting
for my friend (the manager) to return from lunch. So this song
has really cost me :-).
Audience: Possible movie soundtrack, am working that connection
now. (got a hot lead into movies..)
This piece is sorta fun to me, an old King Crimsom fan, always wanted
that Court of the Crimsom King sound.
First piece I ever recorded on my 234, first drum track I ever
programmed on my TR-707 (both show).
I recorded the guitar solo about 3000 times and saved the one you
hear on a crude mix, then recorded over it as I was not totally
satisfied. Unfortuantely it was the best overall that I have done
to date, except for one other not recorded while warming up in a
friends studio in Laconia....sigh the tape never runs when it should.
I would clean it up, distortion wise if I redid it, I would probably
add an acoustic guitar low in the background fingerpicking away.
I have been toying with the thought of adding words but am very
shy as this is one of my favorites and am afraid of overdoing it.
So that doesn't answer alot of your questions, but may shed some
light on my basic feelings about the music and where I think I'm
going.
What I would solicit from all of you is creative comments on
arrangements and possible technical suggestions for the low budget
4-track studio man (me). I realize my lyrics are not earth shattering,
but it's not my intention to use my music as anything other than
"good time" music, I don't feel that I need to or have the right to
convert the world to my political or religious philosophy. However, I
have one qualification to that, if I could do justice to some of my
enviromental concerns I might use my music for those purposes.
dave the demo man......:-}
|
| 430.4 | Here's my story, sad but true... | MENTOR::COTE | Watch out where the Huskies go... | Fri Jul 11 1986 16:29 | 71 |
| Good idea for a note Todd....
OK, where to begin? "I'm Sorry (That I Fell In Love With You)" started
out as a "forced" effort. ("I'm gonna write a song tonight, DAMMIT!")
6 hours later, all I have to show are red eyes and the 2 bar piano
intro, the muse had split and I went to bed.
Next mornin' I get up and BLAST out the other parts. 1.5 hours later
the piano track had been composed/sequenced/quantized/cut/pasted.
I didn't use step mode at all, so that's "really" me on the piano.
Next came the horn part. This was the result of "doodling" on the
DX until I came up with something I liked. Once I found it, it got
recorded as the intro. This theme repeats itself during the instru-
mental break, however the second 8 bars of the break were shit luck,
the fingers just fell on the right keys.
The bass part was easy. It just seemed like by this time it was
the only line that I *could* use, it seemed so natural. 1 take,
quantize and print. No biggie. There's a bad note in there somewhere.
You find it, I'm not telling!!!
Finally come the drums. All the patterns were done by me. I learned
more about drumming during that song than I ever learned previously!
I'm particularly pleased with how the drum part "builds" during
the tune. That, to me, is the big difference between drum machines
and those infernal rythym boxes.
I finally got it all down on the sequencer and recorded it straight
to cassette via 4-->2 mixer. I, too, learned at this point not to
mix with headphones. I also got beat up a bit because I have a sonic
hologram generator (Sound Concepts IR2100) on my stereo which faked
me out on the stereo soundstage. I don't have pan-pots on the mixer,
and I missed then not 1 iota! The final tape though shows the effect,
there's nothing in the middle. (I shoulda recorded *through* the
IR2100.)
Once that was completed, I went out and bought a new cassette deck
so I could add the strings. The strings were done in real time.
Had to. No sync to tape!! But I did get to record them on both
channels. The tape that came out of the machine was the one that
went to Brad....
I've been asked more than once "Where's the melody?". What seems
so obvious to me apparently isn't to some others. My response is
"Hum the piano part, you can't help but find the melody."
The song also has lyrics. VERY personal lyrics. I tried recording
them, but without any delays/reverb it sounded horrid. It sounded
alot like I was singing with a car radio, IN THE CAR!! Since I wasn't
ready to bare my soul just yet anyhow, I didn't put to much further
effort into recording them.
This tune has already been performed for it's intended audience,
lyrics and all. To the extent that it got the message across, I
have to admit, it was a resounding success!!
What would I do different? Now that I have the Mirage, I'd use that
for the piano and add little "fills" and such here and there. I'd
also change the single fluglehorn lines that constitute the break
and fills (during the last verse) to a fuller horn section. I'd
also like to add a nice fat jazz guitar.
If I get more "professional" type recording gear, this tune gets
done again! I'm pleased with the result as it sits, but only when
looked at with respect to the equipment used.
Edd
all. To the extent that it got
|
| 430.5 | | CANYON::MOELLER | recycle your discarded PERSONAL_NAMEs | Fri Jul 11 1986 16:58 | 25 |
| What are my 'goals' when recording ? I'll try outline form...
A) Music and the studio is/are my main pastime.
What else is there to do? Drink beer and watch sports on TV?
B) Making music from an ADULT place for ADULTS. This isn't conscious;
The music is not separate from my graceful aging process.
C) Continue to assemble material into album format, for sale to people
with a Post-Rock sensibility. Not that Toccatta is meant for sale..
..but Alphaville was/is. Toccatta is my first experiment in getting
this idiom (NeoBaroque Rock) on tape. I like its intensity; it starts
out cranked and never lets up. I've since developed a LOT
more thematic material for it, and am preparing to record a THIRTY
MINUTE version of it, with massive sampled orchestration overdubs.
The revised Toccatta won't be as rock-oriented; no drum track except
for orchestral percussion.
D) I'm NEVER totally satisfied with the recording quality. That's why
I'm currently pouring my savings into instruments and audio gear.
E) Invent new musical idioms. You'll know what I mean better when Vol 2
comes out... no two of my recent pieces sound the same.
karl moeller
|
| 430.6 | | BARTOK::ARNOLD | Smiley faces not included. | Thu Jul 17 1986 19:43 | 144 |
| I decided to have a go at the questions posed by Todd in .0. I hope my
answers provide some information to you, the listeners, in understanding the
purpose of my songs. If you'd rather enjoy/tolerate/hate them without extra
information, please do and feel free to get on to the next reply/topic.
The intended audience
=====================
The three songs I submitted comprise 75% of a cassette called "Four Songs"
that was distributed as a Christmas present to my friends in 1979. This
signed and numbered limited edition tape came with a Christmas card (with
the lyrics to "Once A Year" inscribed). The inside joke with my friends was
that it will be a real collector's item if I ever get famous for anything.
(For real overkill, I even included broken guitar picks used during the
writing and taping with some of thetapes as a "momento". I've never claimed
to have a normal sense of humor.)
Musical Goals and Non-goals
===========================
I contend that my songs are personal views of my life. The audience
already knew who I was. As friends, I felt that they might be interested
in what I had to say (since their part in my life affected the attitude
that the songs attempt to transmit). Thus, I guess the main goal was to
give my friends something back for all they had given me.
Beyond that initial goal, I've just played the tapes for people who were
interested enough to see what I did for a hobby. It sure would be nice to
be a singer/songwriter (I think) but the intention of these songs was not to
sell myself to anyone. Like a painting, the songs are here as a stimulus.
Any response is expected and is welcome.
I tend to write songs as a form of personal therapy. Sometimes I write
directly about what I'm thinking. Sometimes I write to distract me from
what I'm thinking. Self-examination is almost always a big part of it;
Trying to capture a frame-of-mind in 3 or 4 minutes.
I'd consider this work successful in its original context (the Christmas
present idea). It certainly sparked lots of discussion amongst my friends.
In the bigger context, I'm waiting to see if works or not. I'll consider it
a success if people understand the frame-of-mind being conveyed. If people
turn to their own thoughts as a result of hearing my stuff, it would be even
more successful. Note that changing anyone's mind about politics, religion,
etc. is NOT a goal.
Technical Goals
===============
These songs show me trying to squeeze as much out a 4-track reel-to-reel
(TEAC 2340-SX) home environment as possible. I decided on the tape idea in
early/mid-November so the recording was also influenced by the Christmas
deadline (Dec. 25). This is a bit obvious in some of the recording. The
songs had already been written so that was not part of the deadline
pressure.
I was pleased with the outcome given my constraints. Of course, I'm hoping
that my more recent recordings sound better. (I'm still not real cure how
to properly use compressors and the like for a more even vocal sound,
however.)
Known Improvements
==================
Better microphones would be a real big help. A better "room" would help,
too. (That's the "problem" with acoustic music, you've got worry about all
this extra stuff like not having the dryer BZZZZZZZZZZZ in the middle of a
flute track.)
Of course, more than 4 tracks would be a big help. (I've got 8 now but
nothing finished to show for it. Maybe next tape...) Of course, I ignored
all the usual advice about "4 tracks means you do mono" and did stereo
anyway. When I totalled it up once, I think I figured out that "Once A
Year" took about 10 tracks (a few vocals, guitar, bass, organ, synth, etc.).
With intermediate mixdowns, that means that some of the finished song is 4th
generation or so. Even with dbx, that's pushing it.
Intermediate mixes were the biggest problem. By the 3rd or 4th time,
something is bound to need EQ or a volume different from that already in
the mix. I try to minimize intermediate mixes as much as I can now.
Examples of what I'm talking about...
- The synth-bass part in "Hostage of Nature" is NOT mixed well. By
the time the song was finished, it tends to fade in and out (too
many generations and wrong EQ).
- Acoustic guitar parts on all of the songs lost a lot of "shine" since
it as the earliest track.
Things that worked out better than I thought...
- The reading at the end of "Hostage of Nature" was a last minute
addition to make the fade different. Knowing that I was going to
copyright the song and performance, I couldn't use a snippet of a
newscast for effect. Instead, I hurriedly looked through some books
in the public domain and came up with an appropriate section that read
like a newscast. It ended up sounding good and highlighted the fact
that stupid things have gone on for a long time.
- The bass part of "Once A Year". I couldn't recreate an earlier, demo
version of the bass "solo" at the end and was amazingly frustrated.
The best I could do was get 2 takes in which the beginning of one and
the end of the other were good. My brother came up with the idea for
the fuzz-bass "boing" in the middle of solo and was able to use it to
provide continuity between the 2 takes.
- The flutes on "Introduction: From Songs of Innocence". I never wrote
down the flute part I'd developed for it. I did 3 takes of flutes with
the intention of having a flute-chorus effect. Having not followed
a written part, the parts are just different enough to sound better than
having run one track through a delay or the like.
What I'd Like People to Tell Me
===============================
General impressions are always welcome. What does it remind you of (moods,
other songs, other groups, etc.)? In all honesty: would you listen to this
if you just came across it on the radio? Would you ever consider paying
real money for stuff like this? (not these recordings but a more polished
version)
Most of all, when you comment on something please try to make it clear what
you mean. If you just don't like it, say "I don't like it." If you think
something doesn't sound good, try explaining why. If you use adjectives,
please tell me what it means and make it clear whether it's a compliment or
not. For instance, if you say "The songs were subdued" or "the synth was
glassy" please include whether this added to or detracted from your
enjoyment. More importantly, was does "subdued" and "glassy" mean to you?
One of my "friends" is a record reviewer for a newspaper and regularly
crucifies records that I like. My main criticisms of his criticisms are:
(1) it never really explains WHY he did/didn't like it, (2) too much decided
ONLY on the merits of its lyrics , and (3) not much discussion of what would
have made it better.
(Of course, it's much more fun to be a critic when you just sit back and have
poking fun at what you don't like and waxing eloquent about your favorite
band.)
'nuff said. "On to Chicago and let's win there."
- John -
|
| 430.7 | Goal Digging U.K. | MINDER::KENT | | Thu Jul 24 1986 07:03 | 11 |
|
Welllll this is all a bit deep and mystifying for a poor English
chap. When I get upstairs into the studio I never have any technical
or musical goals in mind. I guess I just want to play, and I enjoy
it. Liked the idea of the Christmas Card though.
I hope I get to hear the music soon. Should be any day now thanks
to John.
Paul.
|
| 430.8 | Goals and so much more!! | CLULES::SPEED | Derek Speed, WS Tech Mktg | Wed Jul 30 1986 13:00 | 135 |
| I have been quite busy at work recently so I haven't had much of
a chance to contribute to the notesfile, but this topic seemed
worthwhile to help put things in perspective.
First of all, let me say that I appreciate all the feedback I have
gotten so far. It has all been constructive, even those of you who
didn't care for the music or our style.
My motivation in contributing the songs to the COMMUSIC tape was
to get some constructive feedback from other musicians. My band
has been off the road for over a year working on original material
and going through various personnel problems. Because we have been
off the road, we haven't had a chance to play our material before
any "real people" to get feedback. Therefore, I felt using the
COMMUSIC tape would be an effective medium to get that feedback,
rather than asking 40 people over to our studio to take a listen
to our material.
In addition, I have some of my own opinions on where our music is
strong and where it is weak and wanted to either confirm or deny
these opinions based on what others said. It will also be a useful
tool for the other members of the band who are not priviledged enough
to be on the Enet to hear what others have to say.
Our musical goals are fairly simple: play dancable rock 'n' roll
with an eye toward getting radio airplay and possibly a recording contract.
Obviously, I am not a professional musician nor is anyone else in
the band, so our dedication to music is a step below that of people
who depend on music to feed their children. That means we have
to try to be a little smarter than the average rock 'n' roll band
and maximize our rehearsal and writing time. If our music is not
sellable, we need to know why and what we can do to improve it.
Let me list some areas where I feel we need improvement:
o Lead vocals - we desparately need a good lead singer. Our
former singer had an excellent voice but that is history. Everyone
else in the band sings and a couple well enough to sing lead
on one or two songs a night, but that's it.
o Learing that "less is more" - I am a big advocate of a very
open sound where there is a lot of space. This is especially
true of the bass/drum interaction, as well as guitar fills.
Every guitar player we have had plays too much. Unfortunately,
to compensate for this, I don't play enough. I hate a cluttered
sound and I'm really big on dynamics. When the lead vocalist
is trying to sing, back off, darn it!! We have a tendency to
plow through everything like a freight train.
o Lyrics (more on this later) - a lot of our lyrics tend to
be trite. A few clever lines, but mostly kinda blah. This
is a real art which none of us have seemed to master yet.
That's it for gripes. Now onto some of the songs:
Chain Kisser
------------
This is the most recent of our songs on the COMMUSIC tape. The version
on the tape is a rough mix I had lying around to use before we laid the
final vocal tracks, but it was recorded in a professional studio with
the intent of trying to get some radio airplay on "local music" shows.
The idea of "Chain Kisser" is kinda corny, but the girl in the song
is the chain kisser, sort of like a chain smoker, only being a chain
kisser isn't as financially draining as being a chain smoker :-)
You're a Tease
--------------
This is one of our older songs, written when we were playing at
the Cape for an entire summer. The version on the tape was recorded
at the same time as "Chain Kisser".
I like "You're a Tease" because it has a much more laid back feel
to it, with more of a groove. Good to sway, rather than dance,
to.
Lyrically, the song is a story written by our former lead singer
about a girl he met that summer who was a tease, plain and simple.
She'd be flirting with him one minute, then out with someone else
the next. Not real deep, but pretty meaningful at the time...
I Met Your Parents
------------------
Ever since we wrote this song, it has been controversial. Most
people either hate it or love. Easy to dance to, though.
The song is about what I would call the typical college guy mentality.
No flames please. Let me explain.
Often times men put women into compromising positions that they
would rather not be in. The reverse is also true. But this song
is a put down on the mentality of: "Hey, we know each other, I've
met your family, I'm handsome, I'm a jock, I'm an engineer and will
be making big bucks when I get outta here, let's hop in the sack!"
Going to school at a predominantly male engineering college, I saw
this arttitude a lot. Guys using girls as a way to satisfy their
desires, rather than as people. This song is a put down on that
mentality.
That's why the chorus:
I Like Sex
I met your parents
I Like sex
I'm clean, bright, and athletic!
Also, the last verse talks about feeling compromised, which is
the way I think a lot of people feel when they've been taken advantage
of.
Nuf' said.
Fistful of Passion
------------------
Another of our older songs. This song is about jealousy. It's
about the type of "love" where rather than really loving, you are
hit over the head with their love and desire for exclusiveness.
It's also about how hard it is to try to get out of that kind of
relationship.
For example:
You have always tied your rope to me
A tight grip when you pull on the line
But my reaction is to snap it
You know I struggle when you pull down the blinds
Etc.
I apologize to anyone who thought this was about S&M. I suppose
it could come across that way.
|
| 430.9 | Out of place, but what the heck? | DYO780::SCHAFER | Get > or get < | Wed Jul 30 1986 13:37 | 9 |
| Re: .8
Derek - thanks. That really caused stuff to gel. RE: the "college boy
mentality" - I thought that was a midwestern phenomena. Shows to go ya,
I guess ...
As for S&M, watch it! Swaggart will be climbing YOUR frame next. ;-}
8^)
|
| 430.10 | Goal Tending | ERLANG::FEHSKENS | | Wed Jul 30 1986 14:00 | 9 |
| re .8 - useful stuff Derek, I thought maybe I was misreading
"Fistful..." and it turns out I was. Also, "I Met Your Parents"
makes sense now. But I still don't know if you were *trying* to
sound like the B52s on Chain Kisser or that was an accident.
Sorry I didn't have more to say about your stuff (which, in case
I didn't make it clear, I rather enjoyed), but I was getting written
out by the time caboose rolled through.
len.
|
| 430.11 | the Midi wife speaks... | JUNIOR::DREHER | My first personal name... | Mon Aug 04 1986 03:29 | 22 |
| This note is in response to the various comments made about the
Midiwife's lyrics in Burning Passion. By the way, thanks for all
the positive feedback on the vocals. I don't know if Dave had
mentioned it, but when the vocal track was recorded, no words had
been written at that time for the song-to-be. He had just laid
down a few basic tracks (enough to get the feel for the melody)
and we recorded it. All the lyrics were made up off the top of
my head while I recorded. If I had known Dave would be sending
in a tape, I would have recorded the real lyrics. I agree, It is
repetitive but I hadn't sat down and thought about it yet. So I
consider it a work tape, not the actual song as it has been written
recently. I think you'll like the new lyrics. Its about infatuation
with a rich, handsome heartbreaker type. Nothing political or super
original, but I like it and most people like that kind of stuff
to dance to. That's the kind of market I'm going toward. I wouldn't
mind dancing to our tunes out in the clubs over a super revved P.A.
Way--to--Go!!!!!!!!!!!
By the way, what's this Midiwife stuff? I've been around alot longer
than Midi has.
Ellen the not so Midi wife
|
| 430.12 | All That Money! | MINDER::KENT | | Mon Aug 04 1986 07:54 | 8 |
|
Infatuation with a rich handsome heartbreaker ?
This is all from real exeprience is it Ellen ? I wondered how he
could afford the MC500.
Paul
|
| 430.13 | Hey, I did that to the Roland!! | JAWS::COTE | How many people in your quartet? | Mon Aug 04 1986 12:17 | 6 |
| > "I've been around a lot longer than MIDI has."
Dave, you didn't tell us she was an upgrade...
Edd
|