Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I'm interested in the Matrix-12 and the Xpander. Anyone know where
    I can see one in the southern NH/Northern Mass. area?
    
    -jim

    If you do get to see/hear one or both, let us know what you think.
    From what I've read these are pretty neat machines.
    
    len.
    

    I played a Matrix-12 at Chuck Levin's Music Center (in D.C.)
    the last time I was out that way.
    
    (It was MIDI'd to a MIDI bass, Xpander, MKS-80, TX816, RX11,
    and a QX1.  What a sound!!!!!!!!!)
    
    The keyboard felt somewhat nicer than the Xa or the OB-8.  I
    tried to figure out the programming for about 2 hours, with no
    luck.  I was intimidated by the thing.
    
    Beautiful instrument, but I'm not sure that it's worth almost
    $4K.

    As for finding one to play, Ash or Manny's should have one, if
    you're willing to make the trip.  I don't much about Mass (sorry).

Brad	8^)

    For what it's worth, I just got a MIDI mod kit for my Xa thru JLCooper
    - not from Cooper, since they don't make 'em any more.  They are from a
    French company (rumored to be heavily invested in by Bob Oberheim)
    called Numera. 
    
    Kit was $350 (or $395 installed by HITECH Musical Services in Marina
    Del Ray) in case you're interested.
    
    I followed the instructions and made chip swaps, etc last night. Upon
    mod completion, neither MIDI nor Xa worked!   >8^(  Turns out that they
    sent me the wrong chip set, and I get to wait another unknown period of
    time before I can use my Xa again. 
    
    Blasphemy aside, the kit was real clean, and the install was a breeze.
    If you have an Xa and want to MIDI it, this is the way to go.  Anyone
    out there with the Cooper mod? 
    
8^)

    No, you are not the sole survivor!
    
    I have an OB-8; the version prior to the one with the MIDI interface.
    Although I'm not sure where you are located, there is a music store
    in Boston called LaSalle's that will do the JL Cooper interface
    for $150 (maybe they have them in stock).  Similar price at a high-end
    musical-electronics repair shop in Cambridge.  Is it the same interface
    as the one for the Xa?  I intend to have the interface installed as
    as money is available.  I love the OB-8;  I have had it 2 years next
    month, w/o a stitch of trouble save a bad PAGE2 switch.  I also have
    a DX-7, a Juno-60 which I no longer use, and a white Mellotron (for
    sentimental purposes- I never forgave myself for selling my Minimoog!).
    But of them all, few machines come close to the fat sound of the OB-*
    series.  It is, and always will be my favorite!
    
    I have looked at the Oberheim Xk controller, and it looks terrific for
    the money, and as I am not thrilled with the Roland controllers (no offense
    to any Roland owners!!), I hope to own one of those soon, too.  Any opinions
    on the Xk?
    
    After the Xk, it is a sampler.  I am hoping Tom O. will build one,
    although I heard that he sold Oberheim to a Japanese co...
    
    Andy Seigel
    

    RE: .2, .3
    
    If you can get down to Boston, go to LaSalles on Boylston Street.
    They have an Xpander, and used to have a Matrix-12.  Call them;
    I'm sure they will tell you if tehy have the units on display.
    They are at 536-0066, I think.
    
    Andy Seigel
    

    Watch for the next issue of Keyboard - it will feature an article
    on programming the Xpander and its progeny.
    
    Incidentally, Roland-freak that I am, my next synth will almost
    certainly be a Matrix-6r.
    
    len.
    

Re: .5
    
    The OB-8 MIDI mod is not nearly as involved as the Xa mod.  I had
    to replace several chips and the expansion board - thus the extra
    $$$.
    
    Do you know if the librarians out for the OB-8 allow the Xa to do
    dumps and all that jazz?  Would sure be nice to get away from the
    ol' cassette deck.
    
    BTW - I've been thinking hard and long about the KX-76 controller.
    I heard that the Xk just doesn't stack up.  Not true?  I've played
    both and like the feel of the KX better.
    
    And, yes, Tommy O. sold out to ECC.  I heard that he's still acting
    as a consultant, though.  Guess times change.
    
8^)

    KX-76?  Is that a smaller version of the KX-88? Any idea of the
    price?  Also, re: librarians for the OB-8.  Are you talking about
    some MIDI-to-PC connection that would allow you to store stuff on
    disk?  I've never heard of it but would be very interested.
    
    Andy
    

Re: KX-76
    
    The KX-76 is a 76 key non-weighted board (feels like a DX7).  List
    is $1095 - I've been quoted as low as $800.  Same operational features
    as the KX-88.  I just wondered how the Xk compared in feel, functions,
    et al.
    
Re: Librarian

    There are several companies that have software-based patch librarians
    out.  The two biggies that come to mind are Opcode and MegaTracks,
    both of which run on the MAC.  The former allows OB-8 librarian
    functions (not patch editing, just cataloging).  I wondered if the
    OB-8 and the Xa spoke the same MIDI lingo.
    
8^)

Re: KX-76
    
    Didn't know it existed; seems to be about the same price
    as the Xk.  The feel of the Xk, as I recall, seemed to be about
    that of the DX-7, but it's been weeks since I played it.  At worst,
    it was like the OB-8. Now, I will look into the 76...
    
    The Xk works on Zones (same as one of the new OB's??) and I believe
    it can support 6 instruments into 3 zones.  I'm not sure how the
    zones can be configured.  It can remember 100 Zone x Midi channel
    combinations, and it has some sort of arpeggiator (which is usually
    useless). I could try to expand on stats, but I'll probably be wrong.
    I'm new at this: just 2 1/2 years ago I was using a Wurlitzer EP200,
    Korg CX-3, Crumar Stratus, Roland String Ensemble, Korg MS-20, and a
    Juno-60!  Although I plan to have a full Midi setup with some sort
    of sampler by year's end...
    
Re: OB-8 Libr:
    
    Not sure about MIDI protocols of OB-8 and -Xa.  Not sure of protocols
    at all!  Between work and band practice, I have minimal time to
    experiment recently.  It is interesting that it runs on the MAC,
    beccase I was looking (just looking for now.  no $$) at the
    Emulator II which has extensive MAC-based software.  However, I think
    I'd be more interested in software that could do patch editing as well.
    Although, I never do have enough storage for splits and doubles...
    
Re: note 271.2:
    
    Funny.  I've been looking for a Rhodes to keep in the house for
    practice as I have neither the room nor the money for a Yamaha C7!
    But, (a) I was looking for a Suitcase Rhodes,  and (b) I believe
    that you are several states west of here!  Just another interesting
    note:  while I was considering a Rhodes, I also considered some
    sort of synth for home.  A music store called LaSalles in Boston
    was selling factory reconditioned Chroma's in an ANVIL case for $995!!!
    Can you believe it?  They looked brand new!!  Tempting.  Very tempting.
    But, I'd have to amplify it, etc..., and I have a line on a Rhodes for
    about $550...  I hope they're all gone...
    
-Andy
    

    ANDY,
    
    	A Chroma for $995????   I'm ill.   1) I paid $3600 for mine
    (and thought I was getting a great deal - they list(ed) for $5300).
    2) Mine's in the repair shop for repairs and software update. I'm
    concerned that I might end up paying more in repairs than the cost
    of a new instrument!
    
    	By the way, the Chroma is a great instrument, but it is NOT
    MIDI.  You can, however, buy a conversion box for about $300 from
    either Syntech or J.L.Cooper.
    
    	Also, be warned, these suckers are heavy! 130lbs with the anvil
    case.
    						- Karl

    RE: .12
    
    Yes, I know several Chroma owners who were green-around-the-gills
    at this news.  Recall that they are reconditioned- not quite new.
    And yes, they are heavy, although at only a few pounds less, I think
    my Mellotron is *much* harder to carry!!  Hence, I don't take it
    out much.  (Can't wait to get a sampler...).
    
    Some other deals at LaSalle's at the same time were a Jupiter-6
    for 1300, an OB-8 for 2200, others I can't remember now. THere is
    a place in Norwood, Ma. now that has a Polaris for 1300.  If you
    recall, re: Chroma, the same thing happened about 2 years after
    the Polymoog came out at 5200: it was available for 1500.
    
    The falling price of keyboard technology, while good news for
    not-yet-owners, is almost as depressing as salary compression...
    
    -Andy
    

    You should routinely be able to get a *new* Polaris for $1300 just about
    anywhere nowadays.  I "only" paid $1500 for mine, so I'm not quite
    green yet.  Fender was running a special for a while and you could
    get them for about $1200.
    
    And Karl, the case would weigh a lot less if you took the anvil
    out of it.  [;-) - I have Anvil cases too.]
    
    len.
     

I'd like some info on a Matrix-6, anyone got one?

Is it velocity, pressure, and after-touch sensitive?  I've heard
conficting reports so I'd like to get the straight scoop from an
owner.

Thanks,
Dan

    I do not have a Matrix 6, but I have a Matrix 6R.
    
    I have no first hand knowledge of the M6 keyboard, but I can tell
    you that the M6R will respond to velocity and pressure (which I
    always considered to be the same thing as after touch, unless you
    mean polyphonic aftertouch, where there are independant pressure
    sensors for each key).
    
    Needless to say, with Matrix Modulation you can use velocity, pressure
    or any other modulation source to affect virtually any parameter
    of the sound or any other modulator.
    
    By the way, Matrix 6 (WITH keyboard, that is) is "on sale" at LaSalle for 
    for $995.  I believe it used to sell in the $1200's.
    
    Guido

    The M6 keyboard does attack & release velocity, and mono aftertouch.
    Very nice unit.  Priced cheaper and sounds better (in my opinion) than
    the non-velocity version of the Juno. 

    Im missing those fat old analog sounds....
    
    And am considering a 6R as my next purchase....
    
    Anyone out there want me to negotiate for getting 2? 3?
    
    maybe we can get a great price.
    

   why didnt I think of this before?
    
    

    
    I saw a reference in a mag. that leads me to believe
    that the matrix6 has DCO's. I always thought it had VCO's!
    
    Whats the scoop?
    
    ron
    

    
    Even though the manual describes the osc's as DCO's I think they
    are really what most old-time-synth-folks would call VCO's.
    My basic definition of a VCO is that it can go out of tune while
    a DCO won't.
    
    Well let me state unequivocably that the Matrix-6R does go out of
    tune and requires the auto-tune button to be pressed at least once
    during several hours of play.
        
    Guido

    
    That IS a feature. All your waves wont be sync'd to some
    master clock. Thats why analog is fat, non-static, rich
    and outweighs the 'problem' of pushing a button once every
    3 hours...or sending a midi tune message.
    
    Keyboard review many issues ago confirmed the VCO not DCO.
    
    Note too that the SuperJupiter, altho fairly new, uses Vcos...
    
    oh boy, a choice...
    

    Uh, I don't want to ruin it for everybody but this VCO/DCO stuff
    is not the same as analog vs. digital.  See, 'cuz the "C" in VCO/DCO
    stands for "Controlled", and doesn't imply anything about the waveform
    generation process.  E.g., the JX-10 has digitally controlled analog
    oscillators (I defy anybody to listen to my JX and tell me it don't
    sound "fat").  One could (were one suitable addled) build a voltage
    controlled digital oscillator.  The control input just determines
    pitch; the waveform generation process is arbitrary.  One usually
    finds voltage control (pitch determined by a voltage level) on an
    analog oscillator, and digital control (pitch determined by a bunch
    of bits, i.e., a digitally encoded number) on digital oscillators,
    but that's just a correlation, not a requirement.
    
    len.
    

    I was looking at an Xpander this weekend, for $900.  
    
    Anybody out there have one?
    	
    Any comments?  Is it a good thing?  Bad thing? 
    
    I'm not very familiar with the architecture, so a brief discription
    by an owner might be very useful.
    	
    	-Bill
    

    I don't own one, but if I knew of one available for $900 I probably
    would own one shortly thereafter.
    
    The Oberheims come closest to my notion of how a synth ought to
    be designed.  They offer a great deal of control and audio signal
    routing flexibility.  There are the usual components (oscillators,
    LFOs, filters, EGs) and a few "unusual" components that are there
    in other synths but hidden from view (i.e., they've been prewired
    into specific roles).  There was a review of the Xpander a few years
    back in Keyboard.  Anybody have the annual indices handy?
    
    len.
    

RE < Note 268.24 by DRUMS::FEHSKENS >

	It's not an Xpander, but you might be interested to know that the
Oberheim Matrix 6 is selling for $695, the Rack version for $595.

	Dan

    Not only is it not an Xpander, it's not even close.  I know about
    the Matrix 6 and 6R; at this point, I'd probably be more likely
    to spring for a Matrix-1000, although the 6R is a lot easier to
    program (no outboard computer necessary).
    
    len.
    

    I take it that the Xpander is a superset of the Matrix-6?
    	
    (perusing the ads in keyboard, I notice that several companies sell
    Matrix-12/Xpander patch tapes (implying that the voice architecture
    and parametrics are identical).  Is this true?  
    
    I have *heard* that the Matrix-12 can handle 40 intermodulations
    and I read the WholeSynthCatalog article, which claims 20.
    What's the scoop?
    	
    	-Bill
    

    The Matrix-12 is 2 Xpanders in a box with a keyboard (basically). (The
    Xpander is a very strangely shaped box with no keyboard - read: not
    rack mountable.)

    Rather than say the Xpander is a superset of the -6, it's probably
    better to say that the -6 is a SUBset of the Xpander, since the latter
    came first.  Xpander is 6 voice, and can basically route anything
    anywhere (makes the ESQ pale in comparison). 

    If I could find one for $900 that was in any kind of shape, I'd snatch
    it.  (But I'm an Oberheim nut, too.)  I'd have to believe that this
    one is pretty well used.

    Trivia: the first time I ever heard the word MIDI (and consequently,
    the first MIDI setup that I ever saw or played) was at Chuck Levin's
    Washington Music Center about 4 years ago.  They had a rack with 2
    MKS-80s and a TX816, with an RX11 drum kit sitting on top. A Matrix-12
    was the master kybd and was driving a seperate Xpander as well as the
    rack.  All these were being driven by a QX-1.  I got to play with the
    thing for almost 45 minutes.  I've never recovered.

-b

    A Matrix-6 is not, I believe, half of a Matrix-12 (in the sense
    that a Roland JX-8P is half of a JX-10; the JX-8P and JX-10 have
    identical voice architectures, and differ mainly in the number of
    voices available).  The Matrix-6 architecture is a subset of the
    Matrix-12/Xpander architecture.  Also, it is my impression that
    the filters on the -12 are higher quality than those on the -6.
    Hence, the "Xpander-->Matrix-6" of the title is a little misleading.
                                                    
    len (an Oberheim wannabee).
    

    Here's some Oberheim trivia.. my best friend, after he moved from
    Tucson to L.A., lived for a time with the woman who as an outside
    contractor wrote all the Assembler code for the Xpander.
    
    .. and I forget her name, damnit!

    Well, I got the Xpander, $900, including a padded gig bag that can
    hold either the Xpander or an ESQ-1, traditional midi cable thrown
    in for free.
                      
    As to condition: absolutely mint.  No scratches, dents, gouges.  Looks
    like it was just pulled out of the pink anti-static bag.  All original
    factory patches still in the NVRAM, memory protect switch still in the
    ON position.  Looks like the original owner bought it and decided it
    was just too complex to think about.  Even the MIDI jacks are ungouged
    (they are upside-down compared to every other box I have).  Warranty
    card is still in the manual. 
    
    Cripes!  That matrix modulation is truly bizarre.  _Everything goes
    everywhere_ (and yes, a matrix-6 is definitely a subset of the
    Matrix-12/Xpander architecture). 
    
    It's essentially six good-sized modular synths with the patchbays
    slaved together (but you can modify each of the six voices separately
    if you so choose, or set up multipatches containing inhomogeneous
    patching information).  Like any Real (== modular) Synth, it can make
    sounds without being told to by a sequencer or player.  You can
    have some voices controlled by MIDI, others by CV, and others by
    themselves.
    
    The only "forbidden" modulation is using an audio output as a control
    input.  It's forbidden not that it cannot be done; it just has to
    be done manually, snaking the wire from an individual voice out
    to one of the CV in lines.  Everything else is pushbutton.    
                        
    This machine does both CV and MIDI.  It will translate in real time,
    if you ask politely, and either just translate (while playing the
    MIDI notes) or both translate and play.  
    
    The six knobs are encoders- they will spin forever in either
    direction.  No more "slider jump", knob position is always relative.
    
    The filter has fifteen modes.  1,2,3,4 poles lowpass, 1,2,3 pole
    highpass, 2,4 pole bandpass, 2 pole notch, 3 pole phase,.....
    
    It can do FM at the same time it's doing AM and subtractive.
    
    It sounds Real Good.  
                                                                        
    -----
    
    Downsides:  
    
    	Like a modular synth, there are not an infinite number of patch
    cables.  It seems that you have 20 arbitrary control patchcords
    available, and an additional 20 that are semi-hardwired (you can
    control their presence/absence/gain, but not their source or
    destination).  Also, each module doesn't have an infinite number
    of input jacks; the limit here is six jacks.
                                                                
    	No external Audio IN jacks.        
    
    	Tuning takes about a minute.  Fortunately, it's automatic, but
    under user control.  
    
    -----
    
    True Grossness Department:  We connected a Moog Rogue to the CV/Gate
    inputs of the Xpander, told the Xpander to play six (different)
    patches, controlled by the one CV/Gate line, and also to make MIDI
    out of the CV.  This MIDI then ran into a Polaris and a DX-7.  Now
    THAT's a layering.
                         
    	-Bill_still_smiling_and_shy_on_sleep...
    

    I went looking for Oberheim today on the telephone; it turns out
    they've moved.  Their new phone number is:
    	                   
    			Oberheim ECC
    			(213) 725-7870
                
    (still in L. A.)  
    
    If you have a Matrix-12/Xpander question, call between 8 and 2:45,
    ask for Tom or David  (who weren't in now).
    -----
    
    I called them to try and find out just when my Xpander was built,
    and if it's still "in rev" with respect to software and hardware.
    BTW, Xpanders are still in production.
                                              
    
    In case there are any other Xpanders out there, my serial number
    is G44918, main OS is 1.0, voicing is 1.2, cassette is 1.0 .
    
    Anybody know if this is the "current rev"?

    I've been trying to get my OB-Xa to dump its brains via MIDI so I can
    get rid of the cassette player once and for all.  But I can't figure
    out how.

    I have a (potentially) illegitimate MIDI mod made by French Numera in
    the board right now.  It seems to work wonderfully, except that the
    documentation stinks (read: none).  Is there anyone out there who has
    either a MIDI'd Xa or OB8 that knows the buttons to push or the SYSEX
    sequence ot get the thing to dump? 

    Or are there any suggestions as to what to do?  I'm stuck.

-b

    For anybody interested:
    	
    	The current rev of Oberheim Xpander ROMS is:
                                                   
    		Main: 	V1.2
    		Voice:	V1.4 or V1.6  (your choice)
    		Cass:	V1.0                      
    
    	The changes have to do with bugfixes in TUNE and MIDI (all
    supposedly rather minor).
                            
    		Cost for ROM set: $50 (ouch) + $1.91 P&H
    They can be ordered from:
    	
    	Oberheim Development Corp.
    	(213) 725-7870
    
    ROMs for other Oberheim hardware is also available.

    I've created a patch sheet for Oberheim Xpander/Matrix synths;
    it's a postscript rendering of a SIGHT file.  It prints as is
    on LPS40 printers; I can make an LN03 version if anybody really
    wants it.
    
    Anybody wanting a copy (either the file or a paper copy), send 
    me mail and I'll get it to you one way or another.

    
    Does anyone out there own Oberheim's DSP-1 (not sure if that's the
    right name) digital sample player? You know, the one that plays
    Mirage, Akai, Emulator samples etc. Are they still making these
    things? If so, how much are they going for now? Has anyone ever
    seen one on the used market? (I haven't) If so about how much could
    you expect to pay for one used (assuming you could even find one)?
    
    Mike D 

    
    
    I think its a DXP-1, not DSP-1, though my memory is a bit cloudy
    this morning.  Wurlitzers in Worcester has one on display.  I
    think they were asking around $1000.  Haven't seen any on the used
    market, I assumed it was a fairly new unit.
    
    Ralph
    
    

    They've been around for > 1 year.
    
    Someone (like Mike D.) who already owns one of the compatable samplers
    is likely to find this beast much more useful than someone who doesn't.
    They don't allow any editing of the sample or the configuration
    on the disk.
    
    If you've got a disk with a bass on the left side of the keyboard
    and a piano on the right with the split at C4, the OB unit won't
    allow you to change it to D4 for love or money. What you load is
    what you get.
    
    For the money, *I* would by another Mirage, were I in the market...
    
    Edd 
    

    That's DPX-1.
    
    They have been around for, wow, three years now, I think.  It is
    a quite stable product, and somewhat popular with touring pros who
    want to recreate their old sound (Tony Kaye used three or four on
    the most recent Yes tour).  It is the sampling equivalent of duct-tape.
    
    Steph
    

    
    
    Geez, I was in Wurlitzers last week and they said "hey check out
    this new unit we got from OB!"  Having never heard of it before,
    I assumed it was really a new product.  Doncha love salesmen like
    that??
    
    Ralph
    

Ralph,

Wurly's was all excited because they just now became authorized Oberheim
dealers. Everything from OB is new to them.

dave
    

        This is a very interesting partial history of Oberheim that
    I recieved over the USENET this morning. I hope you find it
    interesting..
    
        Frank
    
    ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    
    
I got the whole bloody story from Oberheim, piece by painful piece, over
a period of about three years, and I'll do my best to edit it down here.
 
Essentially, when Oberheim Electronics Inc. went under, and the ECC Development
Corp. gave Oberheim a new lease on life,  the transition to the new management
had a couple of problems and the new company's market strategy, while sound,
was subject to Murphyology (i.e. what can go wrong usually does, in spades).
 
Some of the important records and files of the old company were misplaced in
the move. These included the full operating system plans and MIDI spec for the
Xpander and Matrix 12. That's right, folx: the reason the high-end Oberheim
synths have NO editors is because Oberheim can't provide sysex information to
third-party developers! The Matrix 6 et al. have zillions of editors, and there
was enough sysex published to allow for a couple of very good Xpander librarian
programs, but there are no editors for the Xpander (unless you count the IBM
package being sold by some hackers in Munich who broke the operating system).
Embarrassment #1: The most powerful MIDI analog synths in the world have the
capability of everything from real time knob twiddling to displaying prompts
on the LED displays for performance cues, and there's no software support for
them. This isn't just an embarrassment, it's a CRIME!
 
The strategy was for Oberheim to release a new line of affordable instruments
that combined Oberheim sound with affordable price: the Matrix 6 was to be
the flagship of the line, with other devices to follow. New ground was to be
broken and made affordable if at all possible. One of the outgrowths of this
was the one of the weirdest and most useless digital samplers in history: the
Prommer. It cost over $1000, was only 8 bit, had limited and esoteric sample
editing capability, and burned its samples onto EPROM chips, so the end user
could use them in the zillions (yeah, right) of EPROM-based instruments out
there. Neat, huh? Embarrassment #2: If you're trying to convince a skeptical
world that you're in the business for real, don't try to market something that
nobody, but NObody, wants, and expect to be taken seriously.
 
The last of the three Big Embarrassments includes not only the Matrix 6, but
also the Xk (Oberheim's MIDI masterboard). When Oberheim/ECC shifted to their
new strategy, the dollar was strong against the yen, and building in Japan
made a lot of sense. They subcontracted to a well-known Japanese manufacturer
to build their all-American designs. The manufacturer promised amazingly low
per-unit prices, then delivered on their promise by re-engineering parts of
the units that they felt were too costly to leave as is. As a result, the left-
hand controllers of both units have a tendency to work themselves loose after
a while, the power supplies for both units tended to either blow up or blank
all of the RAMs on powerup, and the Xk generated gobs of MIDI clock noise when
attached to other synths. Retrofits were quickly developed and implemented by
Oberheim, but no massive recalls were done, because most units lasted forever
with nary a problem. It was decided to fix probelms as they arose in the field,
and to date they've been very good about this. Embarrassment #3, and the most
telling as far as current Oberheim philosophy goes, is that they allowed 
somebody else to handle quality control before the Oberheim name was put on.
 
Oberheim these days is once bitten and twice shy. With the dollar's resurgence
against the yen, they've cut loose the Japanese company and now design and
build everything in the USA (to my knowledge, neither Emu nor Alesis is still
doing everything Stateside, though Ensoniq is), under strict quality control 
standards. The exception to this was the first production run of Matrix 1000s,
which were built in Japan and torture-tested by Oberheim staffers, one by one,
as they were boxed for shipment. They couldn't afford to let another ticklish
product out, and it looks like they made a wise move. With the 1000, they've
finally hit their stride, and I believe the OB-8k and Perf/X boxes will find
enough interested users to keep Oberheim alive and well, if not filthy rich,
for the foreseeable future. It's just a pity they had to learn the hard way
(especially since I own an Xk, grump). But look on the bright side: at least 
they LEARNED, eventually. Sequential. Moog, and ARP didn't!
 
 
-- 
metlay 		     METLAY@PITTVMS.BITNET or metlay@vms.cis.pittsburgh.edu
				Xpander Users' Group: Email me for details.
Metlay say: "To wish to correct someone requires that you respect him, at
	     least a bit. This should cut down your bandwidth considerably!"