Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Good luck.  First, nobody makes a MIDI interface for DEC PCs.  There
just aren't enough of them in the hands of musicians to make it worth
the development effort.  2nd, I know of no RS232 to MIDI interface.
3rd, there is no MIDI software for DEC PCs - same reason as no interface.
4th, doing your own MIDI software is a job that even the heavy-dutyest
of us programmers flinch from.  It will be a LOT of work to get anything
useful.  You'd probably end up saving money and time by buying a
Commodore-64 and getting the MIDI interface and software for it, both
of which there are lots of.

There's a note elsewhere in this notes file about MIDI for Rainbows - as
I recall, the answer was pretty much the same.

Don't want to discourage you, but ...

len.

Well I'm glad someone responded. I've been trying to tell this to my son
for months now! Maybe he will take the advise of others better than he will
from his dad. If we do get "specs" etc. we still will make an attempt
at building both the interface and some SW. If we have any success I'll
let everyone know.

Thanks again Len.

/tb/

I have heard of at least two different companies producing a
RS-232 to MIDI interface. One was called MIDEC I think. But I
can't remember the name of the other one. I could search for 
some information about MIDEC and print it here if required.

     Timo Lehtinen
     HSK01::TLEHTINEN

re .3 - yes, yes, yes, it would sure be useful to know about such an
interface.  RS-232 can go up to 39.2 K bits/sec, and the MIDI standard
is 32 K bits/sec, so it's theoretically possible.  I've never seen such
an interface advertised as a product.

len.

Working in design services as I do, I have access to many of the more modern
computer aided engineering and design tools, as well as DEC hardware
specifications. I'm interested in designing a MIDI interface to DEC
equipment. If ever a MicroVAX is cheap enough for me to own one I want to be
sure I can interface it to my synthesizer (whenver I get one.)

I've already been in touch with Jim Ravan and John Sauter about this
project.  Any and all help gratefully accepted.

Don.

The following is copied from Computer Music Journal Volume 9, Number 2.

Hinton Instruments has announced the MIDIC, an intelligent buffered 
interface between any MIDI device and any computer or terminal with
an RS-232 interface working at most standard baud rates up to 38.4 Kbaud.
MIDIC has three major roles: to buffer and filter MIDI codes to offload
a computer, to format MIDI data for diagnosis or development work,
and to process MIDI data for live performance. MIDIC can filter selected
MIDI codes and generate active clocks to save computer overhead. It can
absorb an entire Yamaha DX-7 32-voice bulk data dump without missing any 
codes. It adapts to the baud rate of the host computer or terminal, and all
options can be set through software; there are no switches or links.

  MIDIC is available in two versions, the 2K at 250 pounds sterling, and
the 10K (recommended for DX-7s) at 300 pounds sterling. Shipping is extra.
Contact: Hinton Instruments, 168 Abington Rd., Oxford OX1 4RA, England.
Telephone Oxford (0865) 721731.

Timo Lehtinen

Has nay one got the spec for the Commodore-64 MIDI interface? It might be
easiest to build a DEC->Commodore RS-232 interface. The manuals that come
with the MIDI machines tell you pretty much what you need to know to
program them. What we need most is the HW specs to get the DEC machine to
connect successfully. Any thoughts?

/tb/

	MIDI specifications may be obtained from 
		The International MIDI Association
		8426 Vine Valley Drive
		Sun Valley,
		California 91352

		(818) 767 - 0597

	I am not yet a member of the MIDI association. 
	I only read the membership information brochure.
	It appears that MIDI information is available to members.
	There are several types of memberships available,
with fees ranging from $25 to $300.  

	If you would like a copy of the brochure please let me know.

	Ron.
            

Hi

I work in the Ivis group in Burlington Mass. As a "home" project
for a DEC demo, I designed and built a Z80 based board that interfaces
an RS232 device to midi; I have a software fifo to absorb the difference
in speeds (e.g. 9.6kbs to 31.25kbs).

If anyone is interested I will be glad to supply info. It isnt all
that complicated. Please limit requests to DEC people only!

Please reach me on dtn 283-7436 or GRDIAN::WEINRICH.

Steve Weinrich

Passport Designs has announced a new MIDI/RS-232 interface called the
"MIDI-PRO". Originally designed as an Apple //c interface, the $249.95
MIDI-PRO includes clock in/out, tape and drum sync and promises to be 
popular among developers for IBM and other RS-232 compatiple computers
as well.
    The IMA Bulletin V2 09

By the way, in my opinnion it would be better to stick to a commercially
available MIDI/RS-232 interface rather than design ones own at least
for a "bigger" DEC-MIDI project. The reasons being:
  1. Those things (especially ones by Passport Designs) tend to become
more or less a standard after a while. It would be nice if all of us MIDI-
enthusiasts around DEC could agree on one type of interface for the DEC
machines that's available for everyone. It would enable us to produce 
compatiple software and would lead to compatiple file formats.
  2. It is advisable to use an interface that agrees with the current de facto
standard for communication between the host and the interface to more likely
be compatiple with what the MMA's Technical Standards Board decides later.
  3. I can't think of how one could improve the desing from what let's say
the MIDIC is. 

The other alternative would ofcourse be to desing a DEC peripherial and have
it available in larger quantities. All in all what I'm trying to say is that
it would perhaps be time to agree on a DEC way of interfacing to MIDI!
Any thoughts?   
    Timo Lehtinen

I'm not sure we are the right group to agree on DEC's MIDI
interface. Whoever engineers the product(s) will have the final
say.  However, we can contribute.  I suggest that we interface to
the Roland MPU-401.  It is one of the common interfaces being
used by musicians, it is available commercially now, it is not
terribly expensive (compared to a DEC system) and it off-loads a
lot of the real-time tasks.  It is also easy to interface to and
easy to program for.  One problem with an RS232-C based interface
is that the RS232-C link can't maintain the data rate needed.
The MPU-401 uses an 8-bit parallel interface.

Timo, could you set your time zone?
    John Sauter

OK we've given it up! Anyone interested in purchasing a "nearly new"
Sequential MAX KB?

	If you know of anyone interested send me a note on CIPHER::BEAUDET.

	Thanks you all for the information.

/tb/

    Here is one possible solution if you are a hacker.  I to have a
    MAX KB and it was easy to put a second crystal into the MAX with
    a switch on it so I could select which ever baud rate I wanted.  From
    there you can build a simple level convereter on the output of
    any of our PC's.  I have written a Step-time editor and sequencer,
    using CPM.  All of it worked and will give you a place to start.
    I am not following this approach with much effort as it is definitely
    the long way around.

For a uVAX or uPDP-11 (remember those?) :

Maybe I'm just too arcane, but if you want to interface to MIDI and don't
mind interrupt problems, why not use an old fashion DLV-11 ? 

You can usually find these hanging around Corp. Salvage, or find someone
who is trying to get rid of one. If you look at the schematic, it is not
difficult to get it to work at 31.25 kbaud (crystal change), 5 ma current
loop (resistor change), or even to change the optocouplers. All you have
to do then is make a cable, choose a host OS (uVAX - VMS or Unix, uPDP -
RT or RSX), and write a driver .... (Not to mention the higher level
stuff ...)

Maybe I missed something essential about the device, but if you can handle
the interrupts, why not go this route if you've got the odd spare parts
like some of us pack rats ?

Also, re .13, if DEC were to bring out a product for MIDI, I sure wouldn't
suggest this route. I'm not sure I agree with John S. about basing such a
device on the MPU 401 interface. While that would be good, it would suggest
tying the company into only one of several good vendors. Certainly offloading
realtime processing would be nice ... 

Robert

    re: .16--You seem to have the hardware problems solved, but doing
    the software will be a bitch.  The DLV11 has very little buffering.
    VMS has trouble reliably reading a 3-byte escape sequence from a
    VT100 over it, and that's at 9.6 Kb.  Imagine how much trouble you'd
    have trying to reliably read at 31.25 Kb!  You might be able to
    make it work under RT-11, but that just substitutes a PDP-11 for
    an outboard microprocessor.  You still need a VAX somewhere to
    do interesting things with the data.  A PDP-11 doesn't have enough
    address space to do what I want.  I'm out of room on my Apple IIe.
        John Sauter

    There already exsist a MIDI system based on a PDP 11/73, it is made
    and sold by a company called Amadeus Music in Munich, Germany.
    Cant remember all the details right now, how many notes, channels
    and so on. It is sold with VT100 or VT200, and it supports matrix
    printers or plotters. I saw a copy of a sample sheetmusic
    that was taken from a plotter, looked quite nice.
    
    The system was deffenately meant for proffesionals, price 100000,-
    DM.
    
    Svein.
    

    
    Re: .17
    
    As an old realtime person I know full well the problems of 31.25
    kb through a DL?-11? . Silo depth of 3 is no win for any OS. 
    
    The reason I looked into this comes from having a couple of 11s
    of my own (thanks to days prior to DEC). I'm looking at using 2,
    one to front end the MIDI bus and the other to do higher level
    work. The former will run very little OS type software, while the
    second will run RSX in 1/2 megb. It will drive a 68010 coprocessor
    (obviously non-DEC!).
    
    You might well ask, why bother? Well, if you had this collection
    of junk (including 180 mbyte of disk space), what would you do with
    it? Have you tried to sell an 11 these days? Since it's all just
    sitting around, it isn't costing me anything but time - that's what
    toys are for.
    
    Of course, given the project I am being paid to work on, it's unlikely
    that I'll get around to finishing much of the MIDI software for quite
    a while ...
    
    Robert

    

    
    
    I have a PRO-350 at home and a modem to talk to the VAX here at work
    and I am still wondering whether there is any MIDI interface in
    existence for me to store my midi data from my Alesis MMT8 and HR16 as
    well as my Roland U20.
    
    
    Please respond if you know anything that could help me in this area.
    
    
    
    Thanks, 
    Joe
     
     

I think the best you could hope for is a rs-232 to midi converter and
coding the software yourself...pro's are officially an aboandoned product

dbii

    A chap in Ireland built one, if I recollect ... do a SHOW KEY/FULL
    MIDI_TO_RS232 for more info ...

-b (the very behind moderator)

    What about MIDI to VAX software???
    
    
    

That's an English company, not an Irish company, that has what is,
as far as I know, the only commercially available RS232-to-MIDI
converter for a wide variety of computers: the Hinton Instruments 
MIDIC unit.  See note 2197 for more information.

Re .23:  What kind of MIDI to VAX software are you looking for?
Could it be RISC (DECstation) instead of VAX?  Terry Weissman
is working on MIDI software for Ultrix.  As far as I know
he's the only person who has the MIDIC in DEC right now.
Are you looking for a sequencer, a sound editor, or what?

Our project has some demos which control a Roland D-5 synthesizer 
from a VAX - see note 2171 for more information about Presence.   
For the moment we're using a modified DHV-11 board and a patched 
YFDRIVER to run our VAXstation/MIDI demos.

    
    I am looking for a method of store my sequenced patterns done using the 
    Alesis MMT8 Midi Multitrack Recorder/Sequencer I have a PRO-350 at home
    in the basement where my studio is and my MMT8 sequencer runs out of
    memory when doing songs.  If I could load the songs onto Disk I could
    then clear there on-board memory of the MMT8 for more song development.
    
    So in summation,  I need to know if I can, currently,  obtain a Midi to
    DEC interface to store my MIDI data on any of DEC's storage devices??
    
    
    Joe
    
    

    Yes, such things exist.
    
    But they cost more than a complete computer capable of doing the same
    thing.  (Like an Atari Stacy or a used Mac.)