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Conference napalm::commusic_v1

Title:* * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * *
Notice:Conference has been write-locked. Use new version.
Moderator:DYPSS1::SCHAFER
Created:Thu Feb 20 1986
Last Modified:Mon Aug 29 1994
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2852
Total number of notes:33157

159.0. "ST and AMIGA" by OLORIN::CZOTTER () Wed Oct 09 1985 23:32

Forgive me if this was discussed already. I've been out to lunch lately.

Has anyone heard anything worth mentioning about using MIDI on the
Atari ST and the AMIGA? I've played with an ST and it seems like a truly
incredible machine, without even mentioning the price. The ST comes with
MIDI IN and OUT built in. The Amiga has it as an option. I've read lots
of articles about these machines and have been following the Commodore and
Atari notes files but nobody is talking about available software. Personally,
I'd just as soon buy an ST and get a C compiler and do it myself. Still,
if the price is right, why waste the effort.

In any case, if anybody actually owns an ST and/or has used one with MIDI
please, let's here from you. At $800 it's too good to not talk about. Hell,
my stupid MPU-401 MIDI interface was $225 all by itself.

	Ted
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159.1SIVA::FEHSKENSThu Oct 10 1985 12:4711
I'm in line for an Amiga, and I've got a vague unease about the (present)
lack of software.  There are a lot of promises, and it looks the machine
the industry (which industry?) is going to jump on for MIDI support, but
its all just intentions or plans to date.  I have yet to see anything to add
substance to the promises.  My Amiga's supposed to be in in a few weeks,
but I suspect I'm going to have to wait a while longer before I've got any
useful MIDI software for it.  Like Ted, I'm strongly tempted to write my
own (I'm working up requirements in my "spare" time), but I've done enough
software to wonder if I really want to get in that deep.

len.
159.2BANZAI::RAVANFri Oct 11 1985 12:2135
I looked at the specs for the ST and the AMIGA and chose the higher-priced
AMIGA because of its:

    1) MUCH better built-in sound
    2) speech synthesis capability right out of the box
    3) VERY impressive graphics
    4) open architecture (i.e., I can build my own add-on boards if I want)
    5) Cherry Lane Technology pitch follower support
    6) multi-tasking OS
    7) plans for an audio sampler
    8) external video gen-lock (but at this point, we get out of musical
       considerations and into other reasons why I bought it)

Cherry Lane seems to be the initial MIDI software supplier for the AMIGA.
I am going to call them and ask when their software will be released.
The latest (second) issue of AMIGAWorld has an article on their stuff.

I'm getting a developer's system, at least in part because I knew I would
need the extra documentation and software to write the kind of music
software I need.  I'm not too interested in notes and duodecaphonic scales,
so most of the soon-to-be-available software probably won't do me much good.
But I'll probably buy at least some of it to use as a starting point for the
design of the stuff I want.  And also for the few projects other people ask me
to do; that almost always involves traditional music.

I'll give you my impressions of the AMIGA when it arrives (about two weeks...)

For those of you in NH interested in the ST, INSTANT SOFTWARE in the Nashua Mall
has one.  I should go take a look and see if my extra investment was worth it.

For those of you in NH interested in the AMIGA, THE COMPUTER MART on Main Street
has one.  It's worth a look.  The graphics on the AMIGA really ARE amazing!!!
And so is the sound!!!

-jim
159.3SAUTER::SAUTERFri Oct 11 1985 17:5515
I hate to sound negative, but I wouldn't buy anything based on a
promise of future software from Cherry Lane Technologies. Unless
they have cleaned up their act they are advertising for sale
software that they don't have working yet.  If you contact them
ask if they have Texture for the Apple II ready yet.  It sounds
real nice from their specs, but it's been "almost ready" for
months.        

P.S., I looked at the Amiga at the Computer Mart.  The graphics
are indeed impressive.  I am tempted to get one, even without
software, since I am sure I can write the MIDI software myself.
However, I intend to wait until after Christmas.  It is possible
that the machine, and thus its future hardware support, will
die by then.
    John Sauter 
159.4BANZAI::RAVANMon Oct 28 1985 15:2021
Cherry Lane has yet to prove John Sauter wrong.  I called them last week and
asked when the MIDI board and HARMONY software would be released for the Amiga.
They said to call them back in mid-November and they would have a better idea
when it would be available.  Ho Hum.

On a brighter note, my Amiga has arrived and I am increasingly pleased with it.
I have done nothing with it so far except run demos and compile a couple of C
programs supplied with the C compiler, but it is a very impressive machine
after five days of use.  I'll have more to say when I get some software written.

If you would like to see the beast, I would be pleased to demo it for you.
Send me Email.  I live close to the ZK facility, Nashua, NH.  NOTE THAT
THIS MACHINE DOES NOT YET HAVE A MIDI INTERFACE, so this is a demo of the
computer only (which does have IMPRESSIVE built-in sound capabilities).

If someone has an ST, I'd like to see it.  I went to INSTANT SOFTWARE in the
Nashua Mall and they had sold their demo model.  Please send me Email if you
have an ST in the Maynard-to-Manchester area you would be willing to demo.
There has been alot of hype on both machines, and I'd like to get some facts.

-jim 
159.5OLORIN::CZOTTERThu Oct 31 1985 03:1064
I'm still on the fence on which machine to buy. Clearly, the ST wins the
price competition. But, that's not always the prime directive. Let's look
at features, with music in mind. To me this means the following

1: Graphics resolution must be 640 X 400 (tie)
2: Colors aren't important - all music I've seen uses symbols in B&W
3: Screen must update and scroll in any direction FAST -
	Ok, the Amiga has parallel graphics processors. But can't the ST
	do this well enough using raw CPU power? Given that it can, it seems
	that the Amiga still has the advantage because, as I understand,
	there are lot's of powerful graphics primitives available from the
	operating system. How do they compete when it comes down to drawing
	a fresh screen one pixel at a time? The 68000 on the ST runs at
	a slightly higher rate than the Amiga and is supposedly allowed more
	frequent access to the bus because it in fact DOES NOT have parellel
	processors stealing bus cycles. I need help gauging this issue. Some
	graphics benchmarks written in C/Assembly would be helpful. Using
	builtin features where possible is perfectly legal.
4: Significant background processing support -
	The Amiga is MULTITASKING. Fine. What does that buy me? I wrote all
	of the communications executive for DECnet-DOS and my network programs
	running on an IBM-AT or Rainbow run rings around a VAX/VMS system
	running the same application because I don't have any other programs
	stealing my limited but dedicated CPU time. Also, my COM EXEC gives
	me all the neat background processing features that a Multi-tasking
	system does without the expensive context switching involved in
	going from one process to another under the control of the OS, which
	can't possibly know the right thing to do in all circumstances. Sure,
	maybe on the Amiga I can play a song, compile a program, listen to
	a speech-synthesized voice reciting poetry, and watch a pornographic
	cartoon all at the same time, but why would I want to? (I'm actually
	looking for a good excuse to need the multi-tasking, just because it's
	so neat, but I can't think of one.) I think I can do everything I want
	more efficiently just by handling interrupts from my application.
5: A development system in C -
	For $300, Atari gives you a C compiler, a 68000 macro assembler, a
	relocating linker, an object library manager, and a full screen editor,
	plus 4000 (no kidding) pages of detailed documentation. Unfortunately,
	I read in the ATARI notes that they forgot to write any MIDI
	documentation. Anyway, all this is available YESTERDAY. Is this stuff
	available on the Amiga? If so, what does it cost?
6: Fast midi processing and lots of memory -
	I can't imagine there is any difference between the systems in this
	regard.
7: Fast DMA disk access -
	The soon-to-be-released-under-$600-10-megabyte-33-megabaud-transfer-
	rate-Winchester drive for the ST fits the bill. What is or will be
	available for the Amiga? I'm keeping my eyes peeled as this is
	probably going to be a big factor. I think 10 megs is a little small.
	20 is ok and 30 would be ideal.
I can't think of a reason I'd want the machine to talk, but the Amiga can.
I have the same opinion about the Amiga's internal music chips. I didn't spend
all my money on dedicated, high-quality synthesizers so they could play backup
to the computer's poor imitation of a banjo. Correct me if I'm wrong, but
the (admittadly good) sound chips on the Amiga aren't good enough for studio
work.

I don't mean to belittle the accomplishments of the Amiga. I'm very impressed
with the machine. I'm just trying to be conservative with money and it seems
to me that the ST is better suited to the specific job of editing, displaying,
and playing MIDI music. If I'm off base on any of my comments above, please
correct me. I don't want to buy the wrong machine.

	Ted
159.6SAUTER::SAUTERMon Jan 20 1986 10:4310
Yesterday I picked up a copy of the January/February AmigaWorld,
and the January copy of Keyboard (the one with all the MIDI information).
I can't find it now, but I remember reading somewhere in one of them
that the Amiga MIDI interface would cost $49 as a factory-installed
option.  The Computer Mart of NH claims that the interface will be
available in March, 1986.

At that price it's probably a pretty dumb interface, unless it requires
the Roland MPU-401.
    John Sauter
159.7SIVA::FEHSKENSTue Jan 21 1986 13:326
I'll confirm John's data - the Amiga MIDI interface is a $49 option.
I believe it's not as "smart" as the MPU-401, but will work without it.
Incidentally, there's a review of the Amiga in the latest Keyboard; the
review doesn't say anymore than we've already heard elsewhere.

len.
159.8ERLANG::DICKENSThu Jan 23 1986 17:163
Rumor:  Commodore is going to file a chapter 11 - internal re-org.
(from usenet net.music.synth)

159.9SIVA::FEHSKENSThu Jan 23 1986 18:367
Is this a firmly based rumor - it's been apparent for some time that all
was not well at Commodore.  Does anybody know what the business structure
of the Amiga part of Commodore is - e.g., might the Amiga part of the
business survive even if the rest of Commodore went under?  I recall reading
someplace that the Amiga part was almost a separate company.

len.