Conference napalm::commusic_v1

There are actually quite a few different ways the TX series can be used.

I have read a lot recently about people using the TX816 to build up very
complex sounds based on MIDI controlled keyboards.  For example, you wish
to build up a sound which has more complexity than a single DX7 would give
you.  What you would do is build a little piece of the overall sound on one
module of the TX816, another piece on another module, etc., then assign them
all to the same MIDI channel and play the huge complex sound from a MIDI
controller like the KB88.

Another use for the TX816 is sound modules played by a MIDI sequencer.  In
this mode, each module could be set up with a different voice and could be
assigned to a different MIDI channel so that several different musical lines
could be played simulataneously by the MIDI sequencer.  Or, you could combine
two modules on one MIDI channel to build up a more complex sound and then
use the extra modules to play different lines from the sequencer.

As was also mentioned in .1, the TXn16 could also be used to play various
splits on a MIDI keyboard.

In a way, the TXn16 system reminds of a VAXcluster: there is an enormous
amount of flexibility built in to enable you to use the system in whatever
way you see fit.  You can make it homogeneous (up to 8 modules playing one
huge sound), somewhat heterogeneous (some modules playing together to form
one huge sound, some playing together to form another huge sound, still others
controlled by a sequencer), or completely heterogeneous (each modules plays
a completely different voice, probably under sequencer control).
 
The MIDI sequencers I have seen are much nicer than the old sequencers because
they can record in real time, rather than in step time like the old ones
did.  I have been seeing the term "digital keyboard recorder" used more recently
than sequencer because sequencer implies the mechanical feel described in
the previous note.

My impression of the TX216/TX816 is also that they are the same rack mount box,
but that the TX216 has 6 blank modules.  

The one disappointment I had with the TX series is that to program them you
must either already have a DX7 or buy one of the DX7 voicing programs available
for PCs.  I suppose that shouldn't bother me, but I really wanted to buy
a MIDI keyboard controller and a rack module which didn't need another synth
or a computer to program it.  Based on the MIDI software for PCs which I
have read about, the IBM PC sounds like the system of choice but I can't
afford $3000 worth of PC for sequencing.  The stuff for the Commodore 64
sounds primitive.  I am really looking forward to some good MIDI software
for the Mac or the Commodore Amiga.

I have also read that the best way (if you can afford it, but who can?) to
build a MIDI system is to combine an analog synth (for example, Roland Super
Jupiter), digital synth (DX7, etc.) and a sampler (Ensoniq Mirage).  Supposedly
the weakness in one is overcome by the strengths of the others.  Now if only
I take out a second mortgage on the house.....

		Happy MIDIing,
		Derek

re 128.1

I have heard that the Ensoniq doesn't sound that great.  Akai just brought
out a MIDI sampler that will sample up to 8 seconds worth and then play
back (in response to MIDI input) at any pitch.  It "munchkinizes" a liitle
bit, but overall I was impressed with the quality of the sound.  Without
its floppy drive (to store samples) it's cheaper than the Ensoniq.  With
the drive they're about the same price.  Before you spring for an Ensoniq
Mirage, check out the Akai.

On all this Yamaha TX stuff - what are you using "voice" to mean - a distinct
sound, or a "note's worth" of sound?  E.g., my POLY-800 is called a "four
voice" or "eight voice" synth depending on whether the oscillators are
doubled up or not.  So I can play 4 (or 8) notes at a time, but only
with one sound.  Instruments that play multiple sounds at the same time
I have heard called "multitimbral" - e.g., my Casio CZ-101 will (like the
POLY-800) play 4 or 8 notes at the same time (again, depending on the
patch/program), but when used as a MIDI slave it will play one note on
each of 4 MIDI channels, each with its own sound.  The Chroma Polaris will
play two different sounds at the same time on the main and link channels,
and will split the 6 hardware modules however they are used (e.g., 1 note
on main, 5 on link; 2 on main, 4 on link; 3 on main, 3 on link; etc.)
as long as there are no more than 6 notes altogether.

Which of these is the Yamaha stuff most like?

len.

Regarding the Amiga, it is a recently introduced 68000 based PC from Commodore.
I don't have any info except that there is a product preview in August's
Byte magazine.  I saw something which said Cherry Lane software did an awesome
demo of their software running on the Amiga at the Amiga product announcement.

You are right, the CX5M can be used for programming the TX series.  They
have a voicing program for the DX7 and its cousins which is either bundled
in or available at a low cost.   Depending on who you talk to, the CX5M is
either great or lousy.

About the DX7 going down in price, maybe it will a little since they are not 
in as short a supply as they were when they were introduced, but the cheapest I
have seen a DX7 is for $1750 through Sam Ash Music in New York.  I was hoping
for a big price reduction myself since it looks like I might wind up with
a DX7 rather than a MIDI controller and rack mount synth, purely due to price
constraints.

I would like to hear more about the Akai sampler.  It looks fairly attractive
but I have yet to see a demo.  Anyone know where a demonstrator model lives?

Regarding .3, when I said a voice, what I really meant was a timbre.  When
I say a TX816 can produce 8 voices, I don't mean ONLY that you can play 8 
notes on a keyboard simultaneously.  The TXn16 can do that, but it can also
play many different timbres at the same time.  Each module of the TXn16 has
the same sound generating capabilities as a DX7.  The DX7 can only play one
basic sound at a time, but can play it polyphonically (up to 16 notes I 
believe).  But the TXn16 goes beyond that to allow up to 8 modules to be
individually controlled by MIDI.  The MIDI controller can be a keyboard,
sequencer, whatever, but each module can receive on any one of the 16 MIDI
channels.

This is similar to the concept Sequential uses with the Multi-track, only
more powerful (also more expensive).  The Multitrack allows you to have up
to 6 different timbres simultaneously, but it is only 6 note polyphonic.
This means that if you want six distinct timbres, each one can play only
one note.  Three timbres, two notes.  Two timbres, three notes.  This is
oversimplifying it but I think it gets the idea across.  The Multitrack is
a fairly impressive machine for the bucks, especially when you realize it
includes a MIDI sequencer.
                     
I too have  heard that there is MIDI software for the Mac.  Following John
Sauter's rule (John, are you out there??), I'll believe it when I see it.
The one shortcoming of the Mac is that the MIDI hardware adaptors are tied
into the serial port so the MIDI port doesn't run at full speed.  Only a
real concern if you are doing some fairly demanding stuff, though, I guess.

Enough rambling.  I just keep dreaming until I can afford the whole shabang!

		Derek

Hello. I was away from DEC for 5 weeks.

I played with the Akai sampler at E. U. Wurlitzer in Framingham, MA. I used
a Shure SM-58 microphone and sang/talked into it as a sound source. It is
very clean and reproduces sounds exactly, like a tape recorder. And, like
a tape recorder, to change pitch it speeds up or slows down the rate at which
it plays back the sampled sound. To say that it munchkinizes a little is
an understatement. I suppose for sampling instruments it isn't bad. But this
simple technique of pitch variation is completely useless with the human
voice, which is what I wanted it for. I had hoped to use it to sample me
singing aahhh or ooohh and layering twenty or thirty of me to produce quick
and dirty backup vocals. But when you move more than a third away from the
original pitch, the sound is completely unacceptable. I'll wait until a
sampler comes out with linear predictive coding so that the spectrum can
be modified depending on pitch. (This by the way is of the utmost importance
in synthesizing realistic acoustic sounds over all octaves. Two piano notes
that are three octaves apart, for example, have drastically different
harmonic content both in the frequency and time domain. That's why I got
the Roland Super Jupiter because both effects are available as parameters.)

	Ted

By the way, it was really funny to see kids come into the store to
fool around with the synthesizers. They walked up to the keyboard that
was connected to the Akai sampler. When they pressed a key, out came,
in great stentorian tones with much reverb added, "HEY! DON'T TOUCH ME".

Chuckle, chuckle.

	Ted

re: MAC composition/MIDI software.

There was an issue of MACWorld a month or so back that had an article about
music software.  As i recall, it mostly dealt with nonMIDI stuff, but MIDI
may have been mentioned.  I will check this out.

Why don't we all just get together and design a system for MicroVax?
Eventually they'll be cheap, and think of what you could do with .8 MIPS!
Most of the systems I have seen/read about are seriously deficient from
a human factors perspective.  It looks like they were designed by computer
tyros.  Surely we have enough joint composer/musician/programmer smarts
here to come up with the ultimate system.

I'm looking for a system myself, and it always comes down to "for the
price of an IBM PC or even a MAC I could buy (1, 2, 3, ...) more
synthesizers/effects/recording gear etc..  Until the software is really
there it's hard to justify that kind of investment.  The Commodore 64
is cheap, but the systems that run on it have some serious shortcomings.
See the latest Keyboard for reviews of three systems.

len.

I agree with Len about buying a PC right now for music.  If I had a PC
currently, I would definitely take the plunge into some MIDI software.  But
considering that my current keyboard set-up is much less than state-of-the-art
(I'm one of those guys who still has a Rhodes and a (gasp) monophonic synth),
I think my money is better spent on updating that right now.

Welcome back Ted!  Wasn't sure if you were still around!

Speaking of Ted, I went up to John Sauter's house recently to try out his
MIDI software which he has written for his Apple IIe and got a chance to
listen to some stuff Ted Czotter did with his Roland MKB1000 and John's MIDI
software.  Very impressive!  I wish I was as good a keyboard player as Ted.
The MIDI recording I listened to was of Gershwin's Rhapsody in Blue played
back on John's DX7.  Really neat stuff.  

When I went to see John, he had just finished his overdub feature on his 
MIDI software.  We were able to record something using his DX7, then play
that back on my JUNO-106 and overdub another line using the DX7 again.  It's
a shame we didn't have more MIDI synths because it could have gotten wild!!

I have to admit, I was very impressed with John's MIDI software, if only
from a functionality standpoint.  The user interface is lacking (editing
is done by changing MIDI codes which are displayed in hex) but it is still
a very powerful tool.

I guess the bottom line is that although we complain about the quality of
the MIDI software that is out there, the things that we are doing with MIDI
today were only dreamed about a few years ago.  I remember how excited I
was when I worked with an ARP 2600 just because it wasn't all patch cords!

		Derek 
                     

re: .4--Yes, I'm still here.  I just got back from three weeks vacation.
I continue to not believe in products I haven't seen.  Cherry Lane Technologies
had some very impressive brocures a while ago, but as far as I know they
still haven't shipped the product that I want.

re: .8--Thanks for the praise!  While working on the sequencer I became very
respectful of those who can specify a good human interface.  My primary reason
for considering the Cherry Lane software is for its good human interface.

My friend at the local music store has asked me to drop in, so he may have
something more to demonstrate.  I'm looking for MIDI multiplexors, to save
all of the cord changing that Derek and I needed to do, and for a
MIDI-controlled reverb machine.
    John Sauter

re MIDI multiplexors - I have a JLCooper MSB-1 (MIDI Switch Box 1) on
order from Wurlitzer.  It is supposed to come "any day now".  It is an
8 in 10 out switcher.  There are 10 rotary switches that select one of
8 inputs for each of the 10 outputs.  It does not mix.  There are more
outs than ins to accommodate devices that do not produce MIDI outputs
(e.g., a rack mounted, keyboardless synthesizer module).  The switcher's
ins are connected to MIDI outs, and the outs are sent to MIDI ins.
All for $395.  I too have gone bonkers disconnecting and reconnecting
MIDI cables, and worry about stress on the connectors.  Once I get it
and have lived with it for a day or two I'll file a report on it.  I'm
buying it "blind", but it seems to be the answer to my prayers.  My only
question about it is whether it's got drivers for each of its ins capable
of driving all 10 outs, or whether each in can drive only one out 
(i.e., it gets flakey if two or more switches are set to the same input.)

There is a much fancier version that remembers switch configurations
(i.e., a programmable switch).  It's about $1K.

Korg and Roland have each announced MIDI controlled digital delays (NOT
reverb).  I haven't heard of any MIDI-controlled reverbs yet.  I think
both the Korg and Roland delays can set the delay time from the MIDI clock.
This allows delays that are synch'ed with the beat.

Anybody heard anything about the new Korg sequencer?

len.

	Re .10

	Roland makes a MIDI reverb.  It's called the SDR-2500 and I think
	it has 32 presets including reverse reverb.  It's made to compete
	against the Lexicon PCM-60 and goes for about $1300.  The one I
	saw was at EU Wurlitzer's in Framingham.

	Rolands MIDI digital delay is the SDE-1500 and it goes for about
	$750.

	Dave

Re: .10 

	KORG SQD-1

		MIDI Sequencer
		Built in disk drive
		30K note storage
		$695 retail (but who pays retail?)


Re: .11 
	Yamaha REV7

		Digital reverb
		MIDI'ble
		$1495 retail (again, who pays retail?)


BTW, DX5 seems to be REAL nice.  Anyone out there played on yet?


/Brad

TX816 revisited


	I've been shopping for some new equipment.  While my initial
interest was a sampling machine, I find that I cannot get enough 
'tracks' (simultaneous timbres).  So, I am investigating other avenues.

	Anyone own the TX816?  I just heard one at a computer music concert
at MIT and the sounds were gorgeous (and dense!).

	What's the best price anyone's found?  Ted Herbert (in Manchester,NH)
is asking $3995. Steve's Quality Instruments (Damhurst?,MA) first offered
me $4195 until I told them about the Ted Herbert quote, then they dropped
to $3975.

	Daddy's Junky Music offered to beat any quote I got, but I haven't
gotten back to them yet.

	If I want LOTSA independant voices (like an orchestra), can I do
better than the TX816?

						Thanks, Karl

The only way I know of to get more voices than a TX816 is with lots of
TX816s.  That's a lot of money.  More than two would have to be driven
from separate MIDI busses, since MIDI can drive only 16 instruments
per bus.
    John Sauter

    High time to resurrect an old note.

    I've just been offered a TX216 for $650, which seems like a good
    deal to me (it's a "home studio use only").  Any comments?

    I've heard that TF1 modules are out of production/hard to get nowadays.
    Is this true?  I'd like to go ahead and fill the thing up (making it a
    TX816), but if modules are hard to get ... 

-b

RE < Note 128.15 by DYO780::SCHAFER "Brad ... DTN 433-2408" >

	I saw an ad recently in the Want Ads where someone was selling TF1's
for $250.  That was the first and last time I've ever seen 'em for sale
anywhere.

	Dan

    Just got off the phone with Chuck Levin's in DC.  They have 3 of 'em
    new in the box (216s, that is) that they'll sell for $600. 

    BUT - no TF1 modules.  Can't get 'em.  Which makes the box effectively
    useless.  Sigh.

-b

    Can anyone who has (used) a TX802 and has (used) an older style DX / TX
    setup compare the sound of the two?  All I've ever heard is the old
    stuff (in a setting where I could tell a difference). 

-b