Conference kaosws::canada

    ...but is Donvan Bailey Jamaican?

    Well, he is a Canadian citizen. He lives here.

                            -< Lies and statistics >-
    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                A       B       C
    
    US		100	4	2
    Germany	65	8	4
    Russia	63	4	13
    China	50	0	12
    Australia	40	24	14
    France	37	6	3
    Italy	35	6	3
    Korea	27	7	10
    Cuba	25	23	?
    Ukraine	23	4	19
    Canada	22	8	4
    Hungary	21	19	75
    Romania	20	9	28
    Netherlands	19	13	7
    Poland	17	4	24
    Spain	17	4	3
    Bulgaria	15	21	32
    Britain	15	3	2
    Belarus	15	15	47
    Japan	14	1	0
    Brazil	14	1	3
    Czech	11	11	44
    Kazakhstan	11	6	26
    
    A=Number of medals
    B=Number of medals per 10 million population
    C=Number of medals per $100B of GNP

    re .1:
    
    	On Donovan Baily being Jamaican...
    
    Don't forget the 4 American's were African American...
    
    Ray.
    
    
    	

    POLAR::BUCCIONE
    
     are you a Canadian ? or just stupid ?
    
    
    				Derek

    
    >> Don't forget the 4 American's were African American...
    
     But they were born in the States...
    
    

    >but they were born in the States...
    
    So what's your point...
    
    Ray.
    

    
    Perhaps he was indicating that the Canadian medal
    winners did not win because they were "Canadian",
    they won because they worked long hard hours
    presumably without chemical aids. As the standings
    indicate, it's certainly not because we spend a
    huge amount of tax dollars on our athletes based
    on our GNP. In fact I'm amazed we win anything at
    all.

    All of our sprinters are Canadian. It does not matter where they were
    born, the fact is that now they are Canadian Citizens. If you think
    different then the only citizens of Canada are the native indian
    population. The athletes worked hard and long, and should be congratulated
    for their efforts. This includes all the athletes that attended the
    games, not just the medal winners. 
    
    I thought we learned are lessons of stupidity after the Ben Johnson
    scandal. The disgusting comments made by the media and the federal
    government concerning his birthplace and citizenship made me sick to my
    stomach. It is suprising to see such comments surface again.
    
    Sean
     
    
    
    

Why is it that so many Canadians seem to always find a way to tarnish the 
things we should be proud of. It's amazing and sad to me that we need to 
qualify our accomplishments with "yeah but...." type of statements. Esmie,
Gilbert, Surin, and Bailey are Canadians who did well so let's celebrate
their performances.

Ben

    Esmie is a hoot! What a character!

    Esmie, the only fault with him is that...
    
    
    He loves Sudbury! Yech!
    
    
    Sean
    
    

    re -1
    
    hey man you told us all to stuff our negative attitude, and then you
    turn around and trash a city that is hometown to a great many great
    people!! get off your soap box mr. socially responsible, if donovan
    bailey or who ever he is was born in jamacia then he is jamacian. the
    fact that he might have written a little testy-poo and passed, which is
    more than one can expect from the naturally occuring variety of
    canadian citizens, makes him a canadian cit on PAPER only. 
    
    stick that in your thesis
    
    fondly of course
    chris

    oh yeah, mahaney. you said that the only canadian cit's would be the
    north american native population, yes? well i would go so far as to say
    that the only truly canadian citezens reside in our primeval swamps,
    ie., protozoans and bacteria and the like. see ya

    Ah yes, the Protozoans. Wasn't it the Protozoans who built all those
    mounds?

    mounds? almond joy's have nuts, mounds don't. ah that's too silly, it
    must be monday :-)

    Wilson! such a refreshing attitude from a Multi-national company hating, 
    granola crunching, bike riding, left wing loving socialist! If you were 
    paying attention in your Socialist Cartoon U. classes you would know that 
    all protozonan life migrated from Mother Africa! Chris, has Lowell Green 
    turned you from your leftist ways, are you now a card carrying Tory and 
    a Canada First Member? 
    
    Regards,
    
    Sean
    Harris 4 ever!

    hey mahaney! what makes you think i'm a pinko. granted i like granola 
    (yogurt and granola with fresh fruit chopped in is nice, you should try
    it, oh and hey, it's calorie conscious too!!) And i go to Ottawa U, and 
    Lowell Green couldn't convince me to spend an evening with that lovely
    sun girl in last fridays paper--well maybe he could. Enlighten me on
    Canada First, is that some neo-nazi organization you are president of
    or what?
    as for hating multi-national companies, that is like hating my nose,
    that is, it's counter productive. i mean you gotta live in some time 
    right? so like now is my time, and how could i hate anything about my
    time? it's like very negative to hate, no? in fact i think i love
    multi-national companies, they are good food for thought, that is for
    people who think, so don't worry Sean thinking is optional in your
    case.
    
    was that last dig tasteless? too bad.
    have a nice life
    
    chris

    Ohh A flame!
                                        
    Is it that dead a the Phase V warehouse on the weekends. You must
    remember Chris, I have had conversations with you before. Your a
    Socialist, not an extremist, but left wing for sure, unless of course
    you have changed in your rational thinking patterns. Canada First, is 
    a Lowell Green group, I do not know much the group about except that 
    they are for Canada Unity and a tougher justice system. Maybe, a 
    ineffectual NDP'er would find that smacking of Nazism, but to a 
    pensive person as myself, it sounds like a noble cause. 
    
    	[Flame on] I do feel some transference of unconscious negative energy 
    from you. Do I bring up repressed memories of your father who you hated, or
    is your bicycle seat causing increased pressure to your brain, sorry I
    mean butt. [Flame Off]
    
    Regards,
    
    Sean
    Mike and Ernie to the next millenum!
    
    
     

    sorry to disappoint you sean, but do you really think i know what a
    wing is? left? right? to me, these distinctions are meaningless. and
    i'm surprised to hear that you think i am rational, i usually do all
    that i can to make people think i don't know what the heck i am talking
    about. as for your belief that tougher law enforcement is desirable
    here in canada, i would like you to consider this senario: your sitting
    at home watching "dukes of hazard" reruns (i'm assuming you do) and
    without you knowing it, all the police agencies in canada mysteriously
    disappear. what would happen?
    
    now perhaps this is why you so hastily ascribe (leftist?) attributes to
    my character: NOTHING would change, criminals would still be criminals
    and good people would still be good people. or would you, sean, go out
    and do evil things, just because mr. lawman was not there? i, for one,
    would not do anything different, in fact i would be relieved not to
    have some fat bummed piggy with a gun staring me down as i walk home
    from the bar at 0230--they look for trouble, and cause it when there is
    none.
    
    just my humble opinion

    Ever see looting, Chris?

    Law enforcement keeps many people in line who would otherwise do
    something bad if they knew they weren't going to get caught.

    If you were to take away law enforcement you would see a rash of
    criminal behaviour break out. Domestic disputes would become more
    violent and there would be plenty of bar fights that would simply
    escalate into riots.

    Why do you think law enforcement came to be? Because it was needed in
    order to maintain the peace and safety of citizens.

    Being anti establishment is one thing but saying nothing would change
    without law enforcement is simply not understanding human nature.

  i am truly sorry that you have such a low opinion of human nature. and i
    am not sure but i would assume that law enforcements came to be when
    elite citizens realized that they had aquired much wealth and very
    little personal strength in order to protect that accumulated wealth.
    the need therefore, of an outside protection agency to provide that
    protection.
    
    but ok you got me. i would like to see a world in which there are two
    policemen for every one citizen, i couldn't think of a safer world.
    every jay walker would be fined, every motorist that exeeded speed
    limits would be fined, every home owner in Kanata would be fined for
    leaving their garage door open: nothing would escape the eyes of a
    benevolent and compassionate police agency.
    
    and by the way, i'm not anti establishment. how could i be against
    something i don't even recognize.
    
    and i don't believe in santa claus either.

    Law enforcement and civilization go hand in hand. Without law
    enforcement everyone becomes their own law and we have anarchy.

    Who is advocating 2 cops for every citizen? Not me. You're advocating
    no cops which in a civilized world is simply ridiculous.

    As for my opinion of human nature, I suggest you read some history
    books. People are mostly good, yes, but when a bad group is allowed free
    rein, then we all must stoop to the lowest common denominator in order
    to survive. What you end up with is war.

    
    "if all you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail"
    					<some real profound person>
    
    I have to agree with Mr. Richardson, most of us would at least become
    looters. Mr. Wilson, what planet are you on (never mind country)? You
    would drive through Kinburn at 50km's ( the posted speed limit!) if
    there were no security forces? Sorry, I find that hard to believe
    because most people I know would be running you over under that
    scenerio (including my mother). I think you'd get lonesome in your
    divinity...
    
    (why all the words in brackets in this note?)

    To come back to the initial topic, I think that more than the Olympians
    from all nations, pharmaceutical research has to be credited with the
    development of new and improved performance enhancement drugs. The best
    aspect of it being that, although they are well known and identified
    (researchers and their employers are avid academic publishers) they cannot 
    be traced by the current set of random tests. It is to be pointed out that
    a proposal to test all medal winners at the immediate outset of their
    achievement has been rejected...
    I think the Olympics are nothing that a disgraceful and meaningless display
    of misplaced national pride, and do not feed me the line about bringing 
    people of all nations closer...

        The Olympics is the world's way to get everybody mad at those brash
    Americans.

    	A thousand years scarce serve to form a state:
    	An hour may lay it to dust.
    
    			- Lord Byron
    Just thought I would throw this out, well everybody else was quoting!
    
    
    	Mr. Wilson, I actually stated in my intial note that Canada First was
    for a tougher criminal justive systen not tougher law enforcement which
    is in itself a separate topic. BTW are you an Anarchist? Because your
    views on law enforcement to me are really skewed. Police do not look
    for trouble, perhaps there is one or two who are not on the up and up
    but compared to other professions, I would say police are angles. What
    I always find interesting is that certain people (you perhaps..) slam 
    police for being too tough, but they are also the first to complain when 
    they are victimized by criminals. It takes a calling from Allah to become
    a police officer, that is why there is such a difficult and lengthy
    process in becoming a police officer. I would rather have a Girl/Boy in
    Blue on the street corner watching me rather than a criminal any day of
    the week.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Sean
    
    PS The Olympics are a disgusting form of political Nationalism, but I 
    sure did feel elated when the Canadian 4 X 100 relay time won the gold.  
    That aside, we can not slam the athletes for their country's stupidity.
    
    
    
    

    One more quote... 
    
    	for the NDP's Buffalo Bob Rae and his reign of terror.
    
    
    
    
    "That to live by one man's will became the cause of all men's misery."
    
    			- Richard Hooker
    			  Ecclesiastical Polity. Book i.
    
    
    Adios Bob,
    
    Sean

    If police are angles, then it would explain why some of them are so
    obtuse.

    8)

    RE: a couple back.
    
    i would drive through small towns with posted speed limits of 50 km's
    simply because i ride my bike just about every where i go, and i cant
    maintain a speed of 50km's for very long.
    
    i think i'm talking to a bunch of people who spend most of their time
    at home, and not on the streets, out with the people (cops included) so
    i fear your arguements are lost on me. you guys talk the talk but are
    simply not walking the walk. come on admit it, when was the last time
    you talked rationally with a convicted criminal? a busker? a bum? a
    retail sales clerk (not in a customer/worker relation), a politician, a
    band member, a tavern owner, a university proffesor (not in a school
    setting). all these people i talked to this week, so tell me, who and
    what are you guys basing your opinions on. it all sounds so much like a
    bad television rerun. these people i will probably never meet again,
    but next week i can assure you there will a simmilar list of
    individuals that i will have met. that is what i do in spare time, i
    meet people--any people.

    RE: DEBATE OVER TOUGHER LAW ENFORCEMENT.
    
    I have to agree with Mr.Wilson. I would give my money to him before
    giving it to any of you guys who think we need more repression in our
    country. I personaly think you all need to take a few Criminology
    courses to get you back on track. The system in place at the moment
    doesn't work period. It won't work any better with more police or more
    prison's or tougher laws. The justice system has stolen the "resolution
    of conflict" from the citizen's in our country. People have become
    dependent on the police to resolve all their problems, and the police
    feed on that need, and that's what gives them power. We don't need the
    police to function as a society. As human beings we have the capability
    of resolving conflits - so why spend millions on an organisation to do
    it for us? Police officers have too much power as it is. We don't need
    to give them more. 
    
    To all of you represive puppet's - while your busy obeing the law - I'm
    out breaking it. 
    
    
    Marise
                      

    Whoa! Marise, don't give me all your money. Dinner, with a bottle of
    wine would be just fine, I'd even cough up for the tip.

    Re: Note 32
    
    Don't push your luck Chris. Maybe your not familiar with "metaphors".
    So, just for you: Metaphor "a figure of speech in which a word or
    phrase that ordinarily means one thing is used of another thing in
    order to suggest a likeness between the two." Just let me know if you 
    also need an example.
    
    -Making sure we're on the same wave-length.:)
    
    Marise                                     

    So, then what is the difference between a metaphore and an image ?

    Re: 31
    
    When I see socialist baloney like this it makes me sick.. Tell me Mrs.
    Denault, when did you take your Criminology course? Was this an
    elective for your Law and Security course at Algonquin? Perhaps you
    can tell me the recividism rates of a young offender, or how you can
    reform/treat a psychopath or pedophile? You should refresh your
    courses at the local University and then you can lecture me of Criminal
    behaviour. Of course the system now is not working, thats why we have
    guys/girls like the Ontario PC's, who are trying to reform the criminal
    justice system.
    
    	As for the 'conflict resolution' model, this now exists 
    in Ontario, you can have an arbitrator help resolve conflicts in
    civil matters. But what you fail to grasp is how are we going to apply
    this model to criminal systems. Should I tell my child when he is
    walking down the street to school, 'hey son, tell that Drug Dealer on the 
    corner to come down and see me so we can talk things over' People have
    seized on the opportunity to commit crimes, look at the Yound Offenders
    Act and the effects. [Mr. Wilson] I work with young offenders, and
    guess what the number #1 reason is for them commiting crimes -
    no punishment/supervision . So perhaps you can get off you high and mighty
    'I talk to people!' horse, and instead of attacking us, attack the
    problem. It does no good trying to shoot down our opinions with
    assaults on our styles/standards of living.
    
    As for your contining call of Canada as a repressive state, when did you
    become such a authority on repression. The fact that we are having this
    conversation does say a lot for Canada and it's present system, Have
    you ever been around the world? Talked to people who have faced
    repression? Maybe if you do, then you would see what a great expression
    of freedom Canada is. Repression is not having the speed limits
    enforced or putting criminals away for crimes THEY committed.
    Repression is having a family member disappear overnight with no trace
    or help from the police , or being sent away for re-education in your 
    political views. Talk to a Jew about repression, or maybe people who
    have lived through such political leaders as Giap, Mao, Tito, Baby Doc,
    and Castro.
    
    Adios!
    
    Sean
    

    RE:35
    Don't get me started Mr.Mahaney. First things first, I have never been
    to college in my life. I happen to be the holder of a Bachelor in
    Criminology, from a "local University" : Ottawa University. Where did
    you go to school? Carleton U I bet. Anyway, I will abstain myself from
    trying to explain to you what I learned in my three years University
    since you are obviously a verry closed minded type of person. And by
    the way you contradicted yourself when you said that the root of the
    problem with young offenders was a lack of supervision. Get to the real
    root of the problem Mr.Mahaney, and that isin't tougher laws but rather
    helping parents, giving them tools to raise their kids. Right now we
    are spending way too much money trying to deal with kids who enter the
    system. What we should be doing is preventing them from ever having to
    come in contact with it. There are a lot of kids who have kids - and
    they don't know the first thing about raising them. Televison is
    another problem. Poverty also. So get off your high horse yourself and
    next time you analyse a file of one of your young offenders, check is or
    her family background. See what kind of supervison or structure his/her
    parents gave him/her. Cutting the social services and health services
    is not the way to go. Perhaps you should refresh your memory and enroll
    in a course. Here's a good one for you : Alternatives to the penal
    system CRM 3102.
    
    Marise
                   

    RE:35
    Why don't you walk your son to school Mr.Mahaney. If parents would be
    more involved with their children, share their interests, supervise
    televison programs, encourage creativity and etc... maybe we would
    have a safer community. Do you know where your kids are??
    
    Marise

    Sean
    
    Read note 992.19 tell me what you think.
    
    M.

    RE:34
    
    If you must know, an image is "a description or figure of speech that
    helps the mind to form forcefull pictures. - picture in the mind."
    
    Whereas, a metaphor is related to words or phrase and not pictures.
    
    Got it?
    
    M.                                                       

    Re. 992.18 More trash! :}
    
    Re. 35
    
    Do you have a problem with college education! That is really a an elitist 
    view you have. So let me see.. hmmm I have a 4 year Bachelors degree, 
    Honours too! I am currently enrolled in graduate courses towards my Masters,
    quite a program too, the only one in the province, it involves the Royal 
    Ottawa, Carleton U. and Algonquin College. So, in your thinking
    pattern, put my degree verus your dimuntive 3 year Pass Degree, I am more
    intelligent! ;}  Geeze.. guess what I say is true!
    
    About taking care of my children, well I do not have any (that I know
    of, My God I'm only 23!). It was a purely hypothetical scenario. As for 
    the reasons for young offenders becoming little criminals (good movie, 
    did you see it?), you have valid points for the initial crimes committed. 
    (except for poverty as a reason) But once the child has realized what
    he/she has done is wrong, then blame must be focused on the child once
    subsequent crimes have been committed. When I stated lack of
    supervision/punishment, I meant it for these repeat offenders who have
    no respect for the law or society. For this I see no alternative,
    than Mike Harris boot camps (hate the name though). I would like to see
    every child grow up on equal footing, I myself strive to try to give
    children/teens prevention education, so that they can face
    challenges ahead. As for Social Services cutting, the fat had to be
    trimmed from the free spending 80's. Once the budgets are balanced, then we
    will see a return to increased social spending yet have fiscal restraint.
    
    BTW you never answered my questions about 1) Conflict Resolution in
    Psychopaths 2) Your skewed views of repression.
    
    Why don't you do a ride along with a police officer on a Friday night
    and see how he reacts/does his job (as a repressive power hungry
    facist)?
    
    
    Adios Marise!
    
    Sean
    Loves getting people talking, it is better than following!
                                      
     
    
    
    
    

    re:40
    
    I told you I wouldn't answer those questions. My time is precious. But
    since your last note demonstrated you are somewhat open to other views,
    I'll think it over and get back to you.
    
    As for the college remark, let me remind you that you were the one who
    brought that up in the first place. I have nothing againts college, all
    I can say is that University is not for everyone so we need colleges.
    
    If you must know Mr.Brain Honours degree Mahaney, I have been on a ride
    along and can not say that I was too impressed by the average education
    level of our fellow police officers. "Archaic" way of thinking is how I
    can describe it best. Don't take me wrong though I was a volunteer with
    the Ottawa Police for a number of years and still keep in touch with
    many officers. It's not the individuals that I have a problem with it's
    the structure itself. But that's whole other debate in itself.
    
    As for who's more intelligent - is that really necesary?
    Congradulations on your Honours degree, good luck with your Masters. I 
    am also starting a Masters program. (Full time though)Ottawa U : Masters 
    in Social Work. I'm sure we'll be able to have some enlightening 
    conversations during the school year. I'm looking forward to discussing 
    different issues with you.  School starts tomorow, I'll be back next 
    week-end.
    
    Take care of your unborn children.
    
    And sorry about the last chance U remark- couldn't help it.
    
    Talk to you later
    
    Marise