Conference kaosws::canada

    Parizeau reminds me a lot of a snooker player.
    
    Glenn

    re: .1
    Why because he not a sports-man?  :)
    
    
    Oh wrong topic
    
    richard
    

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    As Ace venture would say Parizeau is a  ALOOOOOOOOOOOOOHOOOOOOOOSER!
    

    Aaallllllrightythen!

    Well he put his best foot forward again. It seems he is making a big
    deal about the "fact" that the US of A will automatically admit a
    seperate Quebec into NAFTA. The State Department has issued a statement
    indicating Jack is talking throuogh his hat. As the leader of the
    Liberals pointed out. These people will say *anything* if they think it
    is going to help their cause.
    
     In an unrelated event, Jack was caught faking the catching of a fish.
    It appears that an aide put the fish on the line so that Jack could
    have a photo-op of him being an angler. It would appear from part one
    of this note, that the fish is not the only one that he has fed the
    "line" to.
    
     When will Quebecers wake up to the fact that he is a self serving
    lier? (after the seperation, when it will be too late no doubt)
    
    							Derek.
    

    Well, at least you didn't call Parizeau a `liar'.
    
    Glenn

    I'd like to call him alot worse things than that...but it might
    be ALOT too dicey for precious ears.
    Sean
    

    
    It could be worse, you could find that you are related to him.
    
    Pat

    Do you actually know someone who is?
    What a nightmare.
    Sean

Derek,

Voting in Parizeau and the PQ doesn't mean we'll separate.  As the current 
polls indicate, the PQ will come in to power but the majority still don't 
want to separate.  I spoke to a lot
of people who intend to vote PQ because they dislike the Liberals and want a 
change in gov't but will vote no to a referendum.  Too bad though they don't
seem to realize the $50M+ it will cost to organize.

And the line that I dreaded the most is when I heard Parizeau say that if 
he lost, he would TRY AGAIN...  Well Jack, keep trying and see if you gain
independence or start the exodus to other provinces, including yours truly.

Too bad we don't have Jean Desrosiers to reply to this...

/Mario

    Mario:
    
     I think there is an side that the "good government" folks don't
    realize (or don't want to think about). when the PQ come to power they
    will not participate in ongoing talks to reform the country without
    re-writing the constitution. Recent free trade talks, and soon to be
    announced Manpower Training programs as an example. The PQ will skrew
    these things up, then point at federalisim and say it is a failure.
    Once they have crapped in everybody else's nest, how much good will do
    you think there will be left to "include" Quebec ? NONE.
    
    I think of the political cartoon in the paper this weekend:
    
     A Car marked Quebec, the driver looks in the side mirror and reads the
    sign saying "Objects in the mirror are closer than they appear". In the
    mirror you see Jack, and in place of a moustache is the word SEPERATION.
    
     75% of Quebecers say a vote for the PQ is not a vote for seperation.
    What a surprise Jack dosen't see it that way. When the PQ say they are
    going to "trigger" seperation what do you think they mean ? Sit by and
    hope they win the referendum? or stir up emotions on all sides so that
    calmer heads cannot prevail ? If you (the general you, not you as in
    Mario) think it is the first you are sadly mistaken.
    
     Federalists should vote for the federalist party, anything else will
    be interpreted as further attemps at blackmail, and as has been said
    before, the ROC is not playing that game any more. I for one expect a
    PQ win, and a slide into seperation. Remember, once elected with a
    majority, the PQ will be VERY hard to stop.
    
    						Derek.

Derek,

I agree with you that just electing a PQ government creates havoc with the
ROC, interprovincial relations, constitutional talks, trade, etc...
However, that didn't keep Quebeckers from voting in the PQ again after they 
lost their 1st referendum in 1980.  Then what happened was that Rene Levesque
was left with governing with a pro-French stance in their 2nd term as opposed 
to a pro sovereignty-association stance.  Mind you just the fact that it 
was still a PQ government didn't help with the ROC, interprovincial etc... 
(as mentioned above).  And, Rene Levesque made sure that his plan not to 
have Quebec sign the constitution was successful, which it was.

Result, I trace the root of the problem that we are having today, with all 
that talk of separation, relates back to Charlottetown, Meech Lake, and  
ultimately the 1982 constitution.  Trudeau and Levesque really did us in.
Nowadays, Trudeau is still happy about what he did in 1982 without realizing 
that the mess that we're in today is entirely his fault.

My prediction:

	- PQ government voted in on September 12, 1984
	- referendum loses by a close margin (46%-54%) on June 23, 1985

/Mario

    Re: /Mario

    |My prediction:
    |
    |- PQ government voted in on September 12, 1984
    |- referendum loses by a close margin (46%-54%) on June 23, 1985


    This troubles me. Are we communicating through some sort of temporal
    distortion?

    Glenn

Yes,

Boy you're slow...

    I'm rather surprised by the lack of input here lately.
    
    So... we've had the big election and the clown is now in charge.
    
    The dollar made a strong show the day after the election !???!
    
    What is his mandate now ???
    
    How soon will the referendum be ?
    
    Will corporations start pulling out of Q like they did a decade ago
    when the separation issue was hot ?
    
    Will the feds finally wise up and but a ballance sheet together for
    Quebecers so they get make an educated decision instead of an
    emotional one ?
    
    Will the feds stay as nuetral in the advertising and campaining of
    the referendum as they were during the election ?
    
    Only in Canada could this @#$% happen with so little hoopla.
    
    
    Brian V
    

His mandate now is:

	1.  Educate quebeckers on the benefits of separation to *win them over*

	2.  Get the ecomony moving again.

Problem is:

	Quebeckers are much more concerned about the economy than the
	referendum.  Parizeau has promised to hold a referendum within 8-10
	months and if he doesn't, he'll have a serious credibility problem.

	On the other hand, interest for the referendum/separation is low and
	Quebeckers want to hear jobs, jobs.  Parizeau will end up aleniating
	us with his referendum committees and turn us off even more.  The
	fact that we're still in a recession will be the source of his
	referendum loss.

	We want to hear jobs, he wants to talk separation.

	This will be his downfall and the ultimate downfall of the BQ.

/Mario

>>> Quebeckers are much more concerned about the economy than the
	referendum.

>>> Quebeckers want to hear jobs

If this is true, I don't understand why the Parti Quebecois won the election.
It's like shooting yourself in the foot. It seems to have become apparent that
maybe what quebec needs is a 3rd strong provincial party. Another option.

Ben

    What Quebec needs:
    
    1. To realize its "just another province" and,
    
    2. A 2nd, 3rd or Nth provincial party, NONE of whom have independence
    as a goal.
    
    Anybody else wonder why the folks in Quebec in favour of INDEPENDENCE
    are afraid to use the word - much nicer to say "sovereignty" (please
    forgive the spelling).

PQ won the election because there's about 40% of the population that
separatiste, and another 7% who isn't separatiste but wanted a change in
government.  Liberals had been there too long and played too many dirty tricks
on us.  Retroactive taxing, dipping into the SAAQ fund, etc...

This wasn't a vote for sepatation it was a vote to bring in a new government.


Garry,

You say we need a 2nd, 3rd, nth party.  You mean like the NDP has in Ontario?
No thank you.  

Actually, the Action Democratique party is probably going to be taking
on that role in the subsequent elections.  Mario Dumont may be young but he
is an aspiring politician and has what it takes to do develop such a party.

/Mario

    Mario,
    
    No, I didn't really mean PQ should have a bazillion parties - any
    number, even just 2, would be fine with me as long as NONE of them had
    independence as a goal, or more accurately, a THREAT!
    

    Re NDP in Ontario ...Touche
    
    Yes Q is not the only province to shoot itself in the foot in order
    to get the main stream parties out. BUT I didn't vote for the NDP.
    
    I find it irresponsible to vote for someone who's entire
    campain was separation and then complain when they dont do enough
    about the economy and deficit reduction, and to top it all off you say
    that you arent really interested in their main agenda !??!
    
    Brian V
    

Parizeau has always said during his campaign:

	This is a vote for a new government.  The vote for separation will
	be later.

He also does have an economic agenda and he does have a goals for defecit
reduction, health reform, education, etc....  If he didn't have any of these he
wouldn't have been voted in.

Of course Quebeckers all know that their main agenda is to separate Quebec.  But
at least we know that the fact that they're in power doesn't mean Quebec is
separated.

/Mario

    What everyone is failing to realize is that the Liberals did much
    better than everyone thought they would. They also surprised the PQ as
    well as financial markets. That's why the dollar went up, they know
    separation won't happen any time soon. In fact I'd say the notion is
    less popular now than it was in 1980 when the first referendum was
    held.

    Glenn

    
    I agree the popular vote is what really counts. If they got 44.? % of
    the vote, what % are considered to be federalists voting for a change
    in government ? If you add the NDP, to the liberals, you beat them in
    popular vote.
    
     Jack has a mandate to do Jack. He went into this all bluster and
    threats. Now that the cold reality of not being able to win has set in
    he's in damage control mode. He will not "start" anything with the ROC.
    Dispite their differences Quebeckers should work together. Where is
    the "fast track" to seperationm now ? I bet the bum won't have the
    vote before Canada Day (just so we can't thumb our noses at him).
    
    I for one am quite pleased with the outcome, and am sure that Jean (the
    one in Ottawa) will not let the PQ wriggle out of the bind they find
    themselves in.
    
     I am left with the impression of this lady out celibrating the PQ win.
    It was raining, and she pointed around at the deserted street and said: 
    "The street should be full !! This is a great day for Quebec!" Someone
    will have to explain to her that 44.? % popular vote for a federalist
    party that was disliked *is* a great day for Quebec, just not the way she
    thinks .
    
    							Derek.

    I would be VERY pleased if Jack waited until after Canada Day to hold
    the referendum  - a referendum on or near St. Jean Baptiste Day could
    be very good for the traitors...

>> Parizeau has always said during his campaign:

>> This is a vote for a new government.  The vote for separation will
	be later.

Of course he'd say that. What did you expect him to say, "this is a vote
for seperation which means a crappy economy and less jobs."

Ben

    Well, they won't be having a happy time of it to be sure. The PQ MLA's
    will not be happy campers over the next year. There will be scandals
    galore. very juicy, very damaging. Couldn't be better news.

    Glenn

    Don't get all worked up!  You could have Marion Barry as your next
    leader...removing the dope off the streets, one hit at a time!

    Canadians would never vote for a man with a name like `Marion'.
    
    ;-)

    They voted for a sissy name like Pierre.  

    
    Thats' why we now have politicans with real names like Preston and Bob.  No
    more girly-man names for us.  
    

    Depends how you pronounce Pierre. If you say it like a phonetically 
    limited anglo, well then, it does sound a little fruity.

    Glenn

    
    But then again, JP is the apple of the PQ's eye, despite
    everyone wishing he'd slip on a banana peel
    
    Pat

    Glenn:
    
    Fruity???  Another Glen may protest.
    :-)

    Perhaps this discussion should be in the "Taking The Ferry" note.
    
    And, I'm ever so thankful that I have 2 n's in my first name.
    
    ;-)
    
    Glenn

    Switch hitter all the way
    
    :-)

    seen one, you have seen them all...