[Search for users] [Overall Top Noters] [List of all Conferences] [Download this site]

Conference kaosws::canada

Title:True North Strong & Free
Notice:Introduction in Note 535, For Sale/Wanted in 524
Moderator:POLAR::RICHARDSON
Created:Fri Jun 19 1987
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1040
Total number of notes:13668

742.0. "BQ a waste of a vote ?" by KAOFS::D_STREET (Virtue is relative) Mon Sep 13 1993 13:49

    Well the Election is started, and it's going to be an interesting one.
    We have new  regional parties, as well as new National parties, that
    are going to change the electoral map.
    
     One of these new regional parties is the BQ. They profess to be only
    interested in what is good for Quebec, nothing else (one could ask what
    makes them different than any other member of parliment from Quebec,
    but that is another note). As an example, they would not vote for a
    hydro dam for Saskachewan, but would vote for one in Quebec. This is a
    selfish stance, and one that I think will preculde them from any power
    collalition. I mean why share power if they are not going to help you
    in issues outside Quebec.
    
     Having said that, I pose the question:
    
    		Is a vote for the BQ a wasted vote ? As it stands now
    		Quebec members get some pretty high profile positions in
    		Cabinet. As outsiders these BQ members will have no where
    		near the same level of influence, so they are a waste of a
    		vote ?
    
    
    						Derek Street
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
742.1KAOFS::N_PIROLLOTue Sep 14 1993 13:5538
    
     I agree with your prophecy, Derek. I am convinced the BQ party
    is the absolute worst party to be sharing power with, since in my
    eyes they are simply a mouthpiece for Quebec Separatist forces.
    I can't beleive anybody in the ROC would vote for this party
    and therefore this would prove how separatist their intentions
    are.
     Let's not forget they are a fully supported party of the Parti
    Quebecois with its' hidden agenda of full separation, and any
    power brokering would include the PQ platform of nothing but
    full separation.
    
    Unfortunately, with democracy as it stands, we must swallow the bitter
    pill of the BQ party and hope they just disappear, but in reality
    they will no doubt be a festering sore on Canadian federalist policies.
    As is noted many times, Quebec receives a proportionately larger
    share of tax dollars than it provides to federal coffers, and
    Quebec has almost free reign on any federal programs, the choice to
    opt out and receive compensation in lieu of.
     One can only deduce that there is one item left that they so dearly
    want, and that is full separation within the federal trading block.
    
    When you ask if a vote for the BQ is a wasted vote, in my opinion
    since they don't seem to have any representation in the ROC
    this is a Quebec issue which can be very disruptive federally
    if the win a large block of seats. 
    Therefore , since I cannot speak for any Quebeckers, I do think
    it is in their best interest to not vote for this fringe party
    if their wish is to remain in a united Canada.
     If any Quebecker thinks that they might even receive more 
    goodies from the Federal Govnmt. with the BQ in power, I think they
    are sadly mistaken. This party will only expedite the ROC
    disgust with Quebec leaning federal policies.
    
    I have faith in the majority of Quebeckers, I think that they
    as voting day approaches, will see through this separatist
    facade of the BQ , and vote with their hearts.
    
742.2TROOA::DZIALOWSKITue Sep 14 1993 20:183
742.3The Vortex is growing sucking in voters by the hundredsKAOFS::B_SLADEWed Sep 15 1993 12:5110
    Every vote is a statement, even a spoiled ballot.  Either you truly 
    believe in a candidate and the platform or you were sucked in by the 
    crap and false promises flung at you during an election.  
    
    We deserve who we elect.  
    
    If it means anything, the BQ appears the most honest of all the parties
    since the Rhino's arn't running this year.
    
    
742.4They make me puke.KAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relative.Fri Sep 17 1993 12:3911
    >>BQ appears the most honest of all the parties
    
     you mean like when they say Quebec pays more into Canada than it gets
    out? When pressed they change it to "we don't get enough of the right
    kind of money ". Which translates into "if you don't count social
    spending", which Quebec is the largest recipiant of. These guys can't
    be trusted. Their agenda is the breakup of Canada, and they have no
    business going to Ottawa to blackmail the ROC.
    
    
    							Derek.
742.5The vortex gets deeperKAOOA::SLADEMon Sep 20 1993 14:0220
    Bouchard is addressing the Loyalist bunch in Toronto today to tell
    English Canada they had better get used to the idea of Quebec
    separation.
    
    I don't think they have any hidden agenda regarding the breakup of
    Canada.
    
    I agree Quebec gets the lion's share of social assistance, so if a
    breakup occurs, they should get the lion's share of the National debt.
    
    That debate would be interesting!
    
    The other interesting debate would be what part of Quebec is Quebec? 
    The Native people made it plain they don't want to leave Canada and
    they control a majority of the lands in Northern Quebec.
    
    There is one thing for sure, the BQ ain't going away cause English
    Canada don't like 'em!
    
    Bill
742.6KAOOA::HASIBEDERGood tea, nice houseMon Sep 20 1993 14:087
    O.K. a bit of comedy.  Remember: don't be offended, it's just a joke...
    
    Last year I saw a lot of bumper stickers that said "My Canada includes
    Quebec".  Well, at the Ottawa Home Show this weekend, was in the
    washroom, reading grafitti, and saw "My Canada CONTROLS Quebec".
    
    :-)  Otto.
742.7KAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowMon Sep 20 1993 16:299
742.8Sharing is a foreign concept in Quebec.KAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relative.Mon Sep 20 1993 16:5210
742.9Time to oil that squeaky wheelKAOFS::B_SLADETue Sep 21 1993 14:2210
    re .7
    
    What federal programs has Quebec been cut off from?  Statement sounds
    good, where's the meat?
    
    Quebec over the years has been a drain on Federal funding with a
    disproportionate amount of federal business being awarded to pacify the
    province or through patronage.
    
    Bill
742.10KAOFS::M_COTEI'm a mod, not a rockerTue Sep 21 1993 15:237
    

    	Well, for starters,  they haven't sent in any FEDERAL troops
    since that FLQ thingy happened way back then. Also Quebec has been
    cut off from all those federal construction workers from working within
    the boarders. To top it off, the Hibernia project has never gotten a
    foothold  in Hull Quebec,  our nations capital.
742.11Rock beats ModKAOOA::SLADETue Sep 21 1993 16:558
    re:.10
    
    Naw, we sent the federalles to OKA didn't we.  Boosted tourism in
    Quebec that year.  An, why would we want Hybernia oil in the nations' 
    capital when we have an abundance of natural gas and heated air?  An,
    don't use Ontario bricks for a Quebec sidewalk!
    
    
742.12KAOFS::M_COTEI'm a mod, not a rockerTue Sep 21 1993 17:353
    
    
    	T'eestee, aren't we!
742.13KAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowTue Sep 21 1993 21:009
742.14MONEY: The great motivatorKAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relative.Wed Sep 22 1993 13:4815
    >>spent on research and development in Ontario
    
    Yeah, like all those Canadian Space Agency jobes they moved from Ottawa
    to Montreal. Get real Jean, Quebec is in no way finacially
    disadvantaged by it's association with Canada. The problem for people
    like you, (ie. seperatists) is that the emotional arguments are not
    enough, so you have to try to make an economic argument where none
    exists. I have heard many a Quebecer say "Quebec will never seperate,
    it would be bad for the economy". If this is true, and Quebecers will
    vote with their wallets, the only hope the seperatists have is to try
    to confuse the issue enough to make it appear there would be an
    economic benifit to seperation. Since there is none, maybe Quebec will
    not seperate. 
    
    							Derek.
742.15I'd love to see you use a pasport every day ;-)KAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowWed Sep 22 1993 19:076
    Look at all the research centers in Ottawa, do you see the same number
    in Hull?  Money sent here from the feds is used mainly for UI and
    medical care, same in the maritimes, not what you would call real help
    in development.
    
    Jean
742.16I'd love to see the jobs move back to Ontario.KAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relative.Wed Sep 22 1993 19:5815
    Hull would be even more of a two bit town if it had to rely on Quebec
    City for money. I suppose the federal government figures the thousands
    of civil service jobs, and the tax base that goes with them is enough
    for Hull. But like a true seperatist, it is never enough for you. I
    believe Mr. Trudeau had it correct when he called it never ending
    blackmail.
    
     Also, have you heard the PQ/BQ are promising everyone in the Hull area
    that they will still have jobs if Quebec seperates ? This is true, if
    they choose to move to Ontario. The economics of seperation are
    prohibitive. Must be tough to swallow for the seperatists that their
    Quebec brothers and sisters are more concerned with paying for food
    and shelter rather than the alleged threat to their culture.
    
     Reality stikes home !!!
742.17KAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowThu Sep 23 1993 13:358
742.18KAOU61::ROBILLARDThu Sep 23 1993 13:5210
	RE. -1

	Yup, Quebec has paid it's share and it has also received it's share.
	So if it decides to leave confederation it can take it's share of
	the gold reserves (if there is a reserve left) as well as it's share
	of the deficit. Sometimes I think Quebec's motto should be "The 
	squeaky wheel get's the grease."

	Ben
742.19KAOFS::M_COTEI'm a mod, not a rockerThu Sep 23 1993 14:228
    
    
    	Ben,
    
    	I think you are being *almost* politically correct with the
    fair share attitude. Quebec has been a haveNOT province for a while
    now.
    	And the motto is "FiretrUCK the rest, we are the best!" 
742.20The boys in Shawville don't want to go!KAOFS::B_SLADEThu Sep 23 1993 14:5416
    Of course the people in Hull would have jobs in 'Canada'.  This area
    knows what side it's bread is buttered on.  My predication is that it
    will still be part of 'Canada'.  
    
    Quebec will end up being a corridor from East Montreal to the Labrador
    border to the Lac St Jean district.  The rest is controlled by the
    native population who have stated they want no part of seperatism.
    
    The province of Quebec is a geographic entity not an ethnic entity.  
    
    B/PQ land may be the size of PEI!  
    
    With 200M English speaking south and 20 M English speaking west (and a
    few 100K east) my cerial box won't be bilingulal for long.
    
    Intersting times!
742.21Do they court-marshall MP's?KAOOA::SLADEFri Sep 24 1993 14:2410
    A question kind of came up about the BQ.
    
    If Lucien Bouchard et all get elected don't they have to swear
    allegance to Canada (and the Queen) prior to being MP's in the 
    House of Commons.
    
    How can they do that if their platform is the break-up of Canada?
    
    Of course, who is a credible politician these days anyways.  
                                                                     
742.22Are we surprised ??KAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relative.Fri Sep 24 1993 15:287
    >>If Lucien Bouchard et all get elected don't they have to swear
    >>allegance to Canada (and the Queen) prior to being MP's in the
    >>House of Commons.
    
     They will lie. Not the first/last time either.
    
    							Derek.
742.23Only two real choices!KAOFS::LOCKYERNO! (Tact Is For Weenies!!)Fri Sep 24 1993 15:4819
    One man's opionion on "wasted votes" -
    
    The only two parties that have even a hope of forming a government are
    the Conservatives or the Liberals.  While voting for the other parties
    might "feel good" or "send a message", you still have to live with
    whoever gets elected for 5 (perhaps less...) years and I don't think
    anyone really wants to see 5 nearly equally strength parties.
    
    The absolute best condition (again, IMHO) would be a Liberal lead
    minority government, backup up by the Reform (my preference) or the NDP. 
    I can't believe any CANADIAN would want to see the BQ (and they are
    traitors!) hold the balance of power.  Unfortunately, I don't know to
    orchestrate or gaurantee a minority government.  So...
                                             
    I really believe, in the end, it comes down to voting Conservative or
    Liberal - anything else is just wishful thinking or a wasted vote.
    
    Lockyer, who is enjoying Kim's campaign more and more.
                                                                        
742.24Who will hold the balance of power ?KAOOA::MACLELLANthe_moose_is_loose_in_hullSat Sep 25 1993 05:1536
    My fifty cents worth on our party leaders.
    
    Kim Campbell has shown a total disrespect for the Canadian voter -
    we're not smart enough to understand politics - yeah right, Can you
    spell unemployed Kim ?
    
    Chretian is still trying to ride the Trudeaumania wave of years ago.
    Wake up Jean, you missed about twenty years somewhere. 
    
    McLaughlin - Ontario has a lot of votes, and guess what - Bob Rae is
    still Premier of Ontario - and he's NDP. Audrey might get a message
    that is really intended for Bob - we don't like you.
     
    Bouchard only represents the interests of Quebec and is totally honest 
    about that. May hold the balance of power in Parliament
    while representing only 1/4 of the Canandian population and only one 
    province. I'm sure he'll collect his pay from the ROC while trying to 
    disolve the country. 
    
    Manning, is still essentially a regional party leader for the west.
    Reform may pass the NDP as Canada's third party.
    Cannot possibly obtain enough votes from the rest of Canada to become
    P.M. However, like the BQ, the Reform may also gain enough votes from
    disgruntled Canadians to hold the balance of power in a minority
    government.
     
    Hurtig - he's too interested in getting on the TV debate.
    
    I agree with - .1    we're headed for a minority government with either 
    the Reform of the BQ holding the balance of power. This will make
    governing this country very difficult.
    
    My vote goes to
    
    
    Terry
742.25No vote is a wasted vote unless you spoil the ballot.CTHP12::M_MORINMon Sep 27 1993 14:2213
>>Re:  Thinking that anything but a Liberal or PC vote is a wasted vote.

I don't think that's true.  In some ridings the NDP may be ahead in the polls 
and may end up winning at least some seats.  The vote of the people voting 
NDP in those ridings is certainly not wasted because they end up getting who 
they want in parliement.  Same holds true for BQ and Reform.

To say that anything but a Liberal or PC vote is a wasted vote is far from 
the truth.  It's like saying, only vote for the party you think is going to 
win.

/Mario

742.26KAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowMon Sep 27 1993 15:0913
742.27KAOFS::S_BROOKDENVER A Long WayMon Sep 27 1993 15:1923
742.28don't confuse the issue with FACTS, the BQ might loose.KAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relative.Mon Sep 27 1993 15:2113
742.29The Grand Canal or the Love Canal?KAOOA::SLADEMon Sep 27 1993 15:4918
    re:26
    
    What Grand Canal?
    
    The parts of Quebec that want to seperate only have water on one side! 
    Plan on digging ditches?
    
    As far as an information highway, being surrounded by 300M English
    speaking people....
    
    Instead of the Bloc holding power, imagine the Reform holding power. 
    That would be a turn of events.
    
    If the Bloc holds power, it will be ignored by the leading minority
    party because the Bloc can't afford to pay for another election so soon.
    If they do force it, then the gloves would really be off! 
    
    Interesting Times!
742.30re .29POLAR::RICHARDSONSick in balanced sort of wayMon Sep 27 1993 21:225
    What do you mean "What Grand Canal" ?
    
    Are you a Canadian?
    
    Glenn
742.31Don't strike a match to closeKAOFS::B_SLADETue Sep 28 1993 11:216
    re. 30
    
    Have you tested the quality of the liquid in the Love Canal?
    
    Am I a Canadian?  How do you define Canadian, resident, reformist,
    seperatist .......or the complacent majority?
742.32KAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowTue Sep 28 1993 13:0921
742.33The concept of HAVE NOT is not that complicated Jean.KAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relative.Tue Sep 28 1993 13:5011
    >>They say to us "what are you complaining about? you get as much as
    >>you put in!
    
     No, we say to you "You get MORE than you put in".
    
     Oh yeah, The Block have a clear plan to reduce the deficit, right.
    Take Quebec out of Canada, and leave Canadians paying Quebec's share of
    the debt. Typical.
    
    
    							Derek.
742.34Ask the Native People where there loyalty liesKAOOA::SLADETue Sep 28 1993 15:329
    What I mean Jean is Quebec is a geographic entity not an ethnic entity.
    And, it may be presumptuous of Quebec to anticipate that if separation
    does occur that they would be entitled to the geographic entity of what
    is known as the 'Province of Quebec'.
    
    The ethnic area of Quebec is not an island and has no liquid
    boundaries.
    
    
742.35KAOFS::M_COTEI'm a mod, not a rockerTue Sep 28 1993 15:483
    
    
    	A vote for the Bloc, is a vote for the PSAC !
742.36KAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowThu Sep 30 1993 15:574
742.37CTHP12::M_MORINThu Sep 30 1993 16:192
Public Service Alliance Commision.

742.38Correction...KAOOA::HASIBEDERGood tea, nice houseThu Sep 30 1993 16:253
    Public Service Alliance of Canada (I was a member from '75 to '79)
    
    the largest union for Federal Government civil servants...
742.39How many aspirins will Jean (not me) take in the next four years?KAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowFri Oct 22 1993 12:366
    One of the ways to say headache in french:
    
    Mal de bloc!
    
    Jean