T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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742.1 | | KAOFS::N_PIROLLO | | Tue Sep 14 1993 13:55 | 38 |
|
I agree with your prophecy, Derek. I am convinced the BQ party
is the absolute worst party to be sharing power with, since in my
eyes they are simply a mouthpiece for Quebec Separatist forces.
I can't beleive anybody in the ROC would vote for this party
and therefore this would prove how separatist their intentions
are.
Let's not forget they are a fully supported party of the Parti
Quebecois with its' hidden agenda of full separation, and any
power brokering would include the PQ platform of nothing but
full separation.
Unfortunately, with democracy as it stands, we must swallow the bitter
pill of the BQ party and hope they just disappear, but in reality
they will no doubt be a festering sore on Canadian federalist policies.
As is noted many times, Quebec receives a proportionately larger
share of tax dollars than it provides to federal coffers, and
Quebec has almost free reign on any federal programs, the choice to
opt out and receive compensation in lieu of.
One can only deduce that there is one item left that they so dearly
want, and that is full separation within the federal trading block.
When you ask if a vote for the BQ is a wasted vote, in my opinion
since they don't seem to have any representation in the ROC
this is a Quebec issue which can be very disruptive federally
if the win a large block of seats.
Therefore , since I cannot speak for any Quebeckers, I do think
it is in their best interest to not vote for this fringe party
if their wish is to remain in a united Canada.
If any Quebecker thinks that they might even receive more
goodies from the Federal Govnmt. with the BQ in power, I think they
are sadly mistaken. This party will only expedite the ROC
disgust with Quebec leaning federal policies.
I have faith in the majority of Quebeckers, I think that they
as voting day approaches, will see through this separatist
facade of the BQ , and vote with their hearts.
|
742.2 | | TROOA::DZIALOWSKI | | Tue Sep 14 1993 20:18 | 3 |
742.3 | The Vortex is growing sucking in voters by the hundreds | KAOFS::B_SLADE | | Wed Sep 15 1993 12:51 | 10 |
| Every vote is a statement, even a spoiled ballot. Either you truly
believe in a candidate and the platform or you were sucked in by the
crap and false promises flung at you during an election.
We deserve who we elect.
If it means anything, the BQ appears the most honest of all the parties
since the Rhino's arn't running this year.
|
742.4 | They make me puke. | KAOFS::D_STREET | Virtue is relative. | Fri Sep 17 1993 12:39 | 11 |
| >>BQ appears the most honest of all the parties
you mean like when they say Quebec pays more into Canada than it gets
out? When pressed they change it to "we don't get enough of the right
kind of money ". Which translates into "if you don't count social
spending", which Quebec is the largest recipiant of. These guys can't
be trusted. Their agenda is the breakup of Canada, and they have no
business going to Ottawa to blackmail the ROC.
Derek.
|
742.5 | The vortex gets deeper | KAOOA::SLADE | | Mon Sep 20 1993 14:02 | 20 |
| Bouchard is addressing the Loyalist bunch in Toronto today to tell
English Canada they had better get used to the idea of Quebec
separation.
I don't think they have any hidden agenda regarding the breakup of
Canada.
I agree Quebec gets the lion's share of social assistance, so if a
breakup occurs, they should get the lion's share of the National debt.
That debate would be interesting!
The other interesting debate would be what part of Quebec is Quebec?
The Native people made it plain they don't want to leave Canada and
they control a majority of the lands in Northern Quebec.
There is one thing for sure, the BQ ain't going away cause English
Canada don't like 'em!
Bill
|
742.6 | | KAOOA::HASIBEDER | Good tea, nice house | Mon Sep 20 1993 14:08 | 7 |
| O.K. a bit of comedy. Remember: don't be offended, it's just a joke...
Last year I saw a lot of bumper stickers that said "My Canada includes
Quebec". Well, at the Ottawa Home Show this weekend, was in the
washroom, reading grafitti, and saw "My Canada CONTROLS Quebec".
:-) Otto.
|
742.7 | | KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Mon Sep 20 1993 16:29 | 9 |
742.8 | Sharing is a foreign concept in Quebec. | KAOFS::D_STREET | Virtue is relative. | Mon Sep 20 1993 16:52 | 10 |
742.9 | Time to oil that squeaky wheel | KAOFS::B_SLADE | | Tue Sep 21 1993 14:22 | 10 |
| re .7
What federal programs has Quebec been cut off from? Statement sounds
good, where's the meat?
Quebec over the years has been a drain on Federal funding with a
disproportionate amount of federal business being awarded to pacify the
province or through patronage.
Bill
|
742.10 | | KAOFS::M_COTE | I'm a mod, not a rocker | Tue Sep 21 1993 15:23 | 7 |
|
Well, for starters, they haven't sent in any FEDERAL troops
since that FLQ thingy happened way back then. Also Quebec has been
cut off from all those federal construction workers from working within
the boarders. To top it off, the Hibernia project has never gotten a
foothold in Hull Quebec, our nations capital.
|
742.11 | Rock beats Mod | KAOOA::SLADE | | Tue Sep 21 1993 16:55 | 8 |
| re:.10
Naw, we sent the federalles to OKA didn't we. Boosted tourism in
Quebec that year. An, why would we want Hybernia oil in the nations'
capital when we have an abundance of natural gas and heated air? An,
don't use Ontario bricks for a Quebec sidewalk!
|
742.12 | | KAOFS::M_COTE | I'm a mod, not a rocker | Tue Sep 21 1993 17:35 | 3 |
|
T'eestee, aren't we!
|
742.13 | | KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Tue Sep 21 1993 21:00 | 9 |
742.14 | MONEY: The great motivator | KAOFS::D_STREET | Virtue is relative. | Wed Sep 22 1993 13:48 | 15 |
| >>spent on research and development in Ontario
Yeah, like all those Canadian Space Agency jobes they moved from Ottawa
to Montreal. Get real Jean, Quebec is in no way finacially
disadvantaged by it's association with Canada. The problem for people
like you, (ie. seperatists) is that the emotional arguments are not
enough, so you have to try to make an economic argument where none
exists. I have heard many a Quebecer say "Quebec will never seperate,
it would be bad for the economy". If this is true, and Quebecers will
vote with their wallets, the only hope the seperatists have is to try
to confuse the issue enough to make it appear there would be an
economic benifit to seperation. Since there is none, maybe Quebec will
not seperate.
Derek.
|
742.15 | I'd love to see you use a pasport every day ;-) | KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Wed Sep 22 1993 19:07 | 6 |
| Look at all the research centers in Ottawa, do you see the same number
in Hull? Money sent here from the feds is used mainly for UI and
medical care, same in the maritimes, not what you would call real help
in development.
Jean
|
742.16 | I'd love to see the jobs move back to Ontario. | KAOFS::D_STREET | Virtue is relative. | Wed Sep 22 1993 19:58 | 15 |
| Hull would be even more of a two bit town if it had to rely on Quebec
City for money. I suppose the federal government figures the thousands
of civil service jobs, and the tax base that goes with them is enough
for Hull. But like a true seperatist, it is never enough for you. I
believe Mr. Trudeau had it correct when he called it never ending
blackmail.
Also, have you heard the PQ/BQ are promising everyone in the Hull area
that they will still have jobs if Quebec seperates ? This is true, if
they choose to move to Ontario. The economics of seperation are
prohibitive. Must be tough to swallow for the seperatists that their
Quebec brothers and sisters are more concerned with paying for food
and shelter rather than the alleged threat to their culture.
Reality stikes home !!!
|
742.17 | | KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Thu Sep 23 1993 13:35 | 8 |
742.18 | | KAOU61::ROBILLARD | | Thu Sep 23 1993 13:52 | 10 |
|
RE. -1
Yup, Quebec has paid it's share and it has also received it's share.
So if it decides to leave confederation it can take it's share of
the gold reserves (if there is a reserve left) as well as it's share
of the deficit. Sometimes I think Quebec's motto should be "The
squeaky wheel get's the grease."
Ben
|
742.19 | | KAOFS::M_COTE | I'm a mod, not a rocker | Thu Sep 23 1993 14:22 | 8 |
|
Ben,
I think you are being *almost* politically correct with the
fair share attitude. Quebec has been a haveNOT province for a while
now.
And the motto is "FiretrUCK the rest, we are the best!"
|
742.20 | The boys in Shawville don't want to go! | KAOFS::B_SLADE | | Thu Sep 23 1993 14:54 | 16 |
| Of course the people in Hull would have jobs in 'Canada'. This area
knows what side it's bread is buttered on. My predication is that it
will still be part of 'Canada'.
Quebec will end up being a corridor from East Montreal to the Labrador
border to the Lac St Jean district. The rest is controlled by the
native population who have stated they want no part of seperatism.
The province of Quebec is a geographic entity not an ethnic entity.
B/PQ land may be the size of PEI!
With 200M English speaking south and 20 M English speaking west (and a
few 100K east) my cerial box won't be bilingulal for long.
Intersting times!
|
742.21 | Do they court-marshall MP's? | KAOOA::SLADE | | Fri Sep 24 1993 14:24 | 10 |
| A question kind of came up about the BQ.
If Lucien Bouchard et all get elected don't they have to swear
allegance to Canada (and the Queen) prior to being MP's in the
House of Commons.
How can they do that if their platform is the break-up of Canada?
Of course, who is a credible politician these days anyways.
|
742.22 | Are we surprised ?? | KAOFS::D_STREET | Virtue is relative. | Fri Sep 24 1993 15:28 | 7 |
| >>If Lucien Bouchard et all get elected don't they have to swear
>>allegance to Canada (and the Queen) prior to being MP's in the
>>House of Commons.
They will lie. Not the first/last time either.
Derek.
|
742.23 | Only two real choices! | KAOFS::LOCKYER | NO! (Tact Is For Weenies!!) | Fri Sep 24 1993 15:48 | 19 |
| One man's opionion on "wasted votes" -
The only two parties that have even a hope of forming a government are
the Conservatives or the Liberals. While voting for the other parties
might "feel good" or "send a message", you still have to live with
whoever gets elected for 5 (perhaps less...) years and I don't think
anyone really wants to see 5 nearly equally strength parties.
The absolute best condition (again, IMHO) would be a Liberal lead
minority government, backup up by the Reform (my preference) or the NDP.
I can't believe any CANADIAN would want to see the BQ (and they are
traitors!) hold the balance of power. Unfortunately, I don't know to
orchestrate or gaurantee a minority government. So...
I really believe, in the end, it comes down to voting Conservative or
Liberal - anything else is just wishful thinking or a wasted vote.
Lockyer, who is enjoying Kim's campaign more and more.
|
742.24 | Who will hold the balance of power ? | KAOOA::MACLELLAN | the_moose_is_loose_in_hull | Sat Sep 25 1993 05:15 | 36 |
| My fifty cents worth on our party leaders.
Kim Campbell has shown a total disrespect for the Canadian voter -
we're not smart enough to understand politics - yeah right, Can you
spell unemployed Kim ?
Chretian is still trying to ride the Trudeaumania wave of years ago.
Wake up Jean, you missed about twenty years somewhere.
McLaughlin - Ontario has a lot of votes, and guess what - Bob Rae is
still Premier of Ontario - and he's NDP. Audrey might get a message
that is really intended for Bob - we don't like you.
Bouchard only represents the interests of Quebec and is totally honest
about that. May hold the balance of power in Parliament
while representing only 1/4 of the Canandian population and only one
province. I'm sure he'll collect his pay from the ROC while trying to
disolve the country.
Manning, is still essentially a regional party leader for the west.
Reform may pass the NDP as Canada's third party.
Cannot possibly obtain enough votes from the rest of Canada to become
P.M. However, like the BQ, the Reform may also gain enough votes from
disgruntled Canadians to hold the balance of power in a minority
government.
Hurtig - he's too interested in getting on the TV debate.
I agree with - .1 we're headed for a minority government with either
the Reform of the BQ holding the balance of power. This will make
governing this country very difficult.
My vote goes to
Terry
|
742.25 | No vote is a wasted vote unless you spoil the ballot. | CTHP12::M_MORIN | | Mon Sep 27 1993 14:22 | 13 |
| >>Re: Thinking that anything but a Liberal or PC vote is a wasted vote.
I don't think that's true. In some ridings the NDP may be ahead in the polls
and may end up winning at least some seats. The vote of the people voting
NDP in those ridings is certainly not wasted because they end up getting who
they want in parliement. Same holds true for BQ and Reform.
To say that anything but a Liberal or PC vote is a wasted vote is far from
the truth. It's like saying, only vote for the party you think is going to
win.
/Mario
|
742.26 | | KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Mon Sep 27 1993 15:09 | 13 |
742.27 | | KAOFS::S_BROOK | DENVER A Long Way | Mon Sep 27 1993 15:19 | 23 |
742.28 | don't confuse the issue with FACTS, the BQ might loose. | KAOFS::D_STREET | Virtue is relative. | Mon Sep 27 1993 15:21 | 13 |
742.29 | The Grand Canal or the Love Canal? | KAOOA::SLADE | | Mon Sep 27 1993 15:49 | 18 |
| re:26
What Grand Canal?
The parts of Quebec that want to seperate only have water on one side!
Plan on digging ditches?
As far as an information highway, being surrounded by 300M English
speaking people....
Instead of the Bloc holding power, imagine the Reform holding power.
That would be a turn of events.
If the Bloc holds power, it will be ignored by the leading minority
party because the Bloc can't afford to pay for another election so soon.
If they do force it, then the gloves would really be off!
Interesting Times!
|
742.30 | re .29 | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Sick in balanced sort of way | Mon Sep 27 1993 21:22 | 5 |
| What do you mean "What Grand Canal" ?
Are you a Canadian?
Glenn
|
742.31 | Don't strike a match to close | KAOFS::B_SLADE | | Tue Sep 28 1993 11:21 | 6 |
| re. 30
Have you tested the quality of the liquid in the Love Canal?
Am I a Canadian? How do you define Canadian, resident, reformist,
seperatist .......or the complacent majority?
|
742.32 | | KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Tue Sep 28 1993 13:09 | 21 |
742.33 | The concept of HAVE NOT is not that complicated Jean. | KAOFS::D_STREET | Virtue is relative. | Tue Sep 28 1993 13:50 | 11 |
| >>They say to us "what are you complaining about? you get as much as
>>you put in!
No, we say to you "You get MORE than you put in".
Oh yeah, The Block have a clear plan to reduce the deficit, right.
Take Quebec out of Canada, and leave Canadians paying Quebec's share of
the debt. Typical.
Derek.
|
742.34 | Ask the Native People where there loyalty lies | KAOOA::SLADE | | Tue Sep 28 1993 15:32 | 9 |
| What I mean Jean is Quebec is a geographic entity not an ethnic entity.
And, it may be presumptuous of Quebec to anticipate that if separation
does occur that they would be entitled to the geographic entity of what
is known as the 'Province of Quebec'.
The ethnic area of Quebec is not an island and has no liquid
boundaries.
|
742.35 | | KAOFS::M_COTE | I'm a mod, not a rocker | Tue Sep 28 1993 15:48 | 3 |
|
A vote for the Bloc, is a vote for the PSAC !
|
742.36 | | KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Thu Sep 30 1993 15:57 | 4 |
742.37 | | CTHP12::M_MORIN | | Thu Sep 30 1993 16:19 | 2 |
| Public Service Alliance Commision.
|
742.38 | Correction... | KAOOA::HASIBEDER | Good tea, nice house | Thu Sep 30 1993 16:25 | 3 |
| Public Service Alliance of Canada (I was a member from '75 to '79)
the largest union for Federal Government civil servants...
|
742.39 | How many aspirins will Jean (not me) take in the next four years? | KAOFS::J_DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Fri Oct 22 1993 12:36 | 6 |
| One of the ways to say headache in french:
Mal de bloc!
Jean
|