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Conference kaosws::canada

Title:True North Strong & Free
Notice:Introduction in Note 535, For Sale/Wanted in 524
Moderator:POLAR::RICHARDSON
Created:Fri Jun 19 1987
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:1040
Total number of notes:13668

708.0. "Don Cherry, Racism and Language!" by KAOFS::LOCKYER (NO! (Tact Is For Weenies!!)) Thu May 27 1993 13:06

    Heard on CBC News this AM that a Member Of Parliament is requesting
    that Don Cherry (Canada's favourite hockey commentator...) be censored
    by the Canadian Radio and Television Commission, the Canadian
    Broadcasting Corporation and Molson Breweries for comments he made last
    Monday about Sault St. Marie (host for the Memorial Cup) and language.
    
    I saw Cherry's "Coach's Corner" that night and caught a reference to SS
    Marie, but didn't clearly hear what he said.  Apparently he said
    something like "Way to go SS Marie, those folks speak the good
    language" (Note, this is not an accurate quote!)  He was obviously 
    (even in my opinion) referring to SS Marie declaring itself a unilingual 
    English city.
    
    The MP is requesting that Cherry be censored for and preventing from
    making any more "racist" (the word they used in the news item) comments.
    
    So, are Cherry's comments racist and should he be censored?  Is what
    Cherry said any worse than Robert Bourassa (or anyone else) publicly 
    making statements in support of French and passing laws (contrary to 
    the Quebec and Canadian constitutions) to illegalize it use?  Should 
    Bourassa be censored for making racist comments?
    
    Regards,
    
    Garry
                             
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708.1KAOT01::M_MORINLe diable est aux vaches!Thu May 27 1993 14:0937
Ok, I'll byte.  This will turn into another French/English confrontation but here
it comes.

There is no doubt in my mind that that was a racist comment among the other
degrading comments he's made in the past.  He refers to the "good language" as
opposed to the "bad language"?  Make no assumptions, we know what languages he's
referring to.

Re: Bourassa making racist comments.  Please elaborate.  What comments were they?
Making racist comments is one thing, passing a law in favour of preserving the
French language is another.  BTW, I do disagree with Quebec's language laws but
I have never heard Bourassa make a racist comment.  If anything, he's trying to
find the right balance between the preservation of French and respect for human
rights by trying to change Quebec's language laws as we speak.

In any case, legislating is useless in my mind.  Don Cherry appears as though he's
only looking for attention and trying to get more people to listen to his show.
He lost all the credibility he had in my mind when he stated on television that
a fist fight in the NHL is OK once in a while and it's OK for young
kids to fight sometimes.  "Every kid does it" as he puts it.

Among Cherry's other comments:

	"The Quebec Nordiques should move the team out of the province because
	 they don't sing the national anthem in English there."

	Refering to good performance from a Newfoundlander player in the Junior 
	World championships a couple of years back.  "Way to go Newfoundland.
	Way to go Clyde Wells for opposing Meech Lake."
	Political comments like that don't belong in sports in my opinion whether
	I agree or disagree with them.

I hate the guy but I still watch him on Coach's corner.  His strategy is working.

/Mario


708.2Don's out of line on this one (a little)KAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relativeThu May 27 1993 14:1122
    Gary Gary Gary, don't you know by now that the Francophones can outlaw
    our language, stamp on the Canadian flag, prevent out of province
    trades people from working in Quebec, move Government agencies into
    Quebec against all common sense...and so on. and it is OK ?
    
     However if the shoe is put on the other foot, it is an outrage!
    
     Having said that, Don's comments were way out of line. He was
    expressing a sentiment (poorly mind you) that the ROC is exasperated
    with Quebec, and is no longer going to quietly put up with spoiled brat
    province of Canada. I suggest Quebec gets used to it, because there is
    alot of anger towards that province out here in the ROC. Just today
    Ottawa Regional council has started a debate over refusing to accept
    bids from Quebec companies. I expect Quebec to be upset, but since they
    have been doing it for years, it should be expected. What half baked
    thought processes are they useing that would expect to be able to
    refuse out of province trades, and expect to be able to work in the
    same provinces that they ban from working in Quebec ?
    
    			GET REAL !!!
    
    							Derek
708.3KAOFS::S_BURRIDGEStephen, dtn 640-7186, CTH-2/2Thu May 27 1993 14:358
    I don't think cherry said "the good language".  As I recall, it was
    more like he loved the Sault, "...and you know why," with a significant
    look at Mclean, who nodded, and may have said domething about language.
    
    I thought it was out of line, but Cherry's Cherry.  If some politician
    wants to make an issue of it, he or she is a fool.
    
    -Stephen
708.4Why Cherry and not Booboo?KAOFS::LOCKYERNO! (Tact Is For Weenies!!)Thu May 27 1993 15:0218
    I'm not asking if Cherry was "out if line" or if you agree with him or
    not.
    
    With respect to Bourassa (and others) - Cherry was promoting one language 
    over another and Bourassa does the same thing, and carries it further
    by using the power he has to pass laws that go way beyond uttering an 
    opinion.
    
    If Cherry (or anyone else) makes his language preference known and that
    statement is considered racist (and by association, the person),
    shouldn't logic dictate that anyone who makes their preference known be
    considered racist, and be similarly dealt with (censored etc.)?
    
    Again, I'm not arguing whether Cherry (or Bourassa) is right or wrong,
    and I'm not "taking sides".  This is a simple question of logic...
    
    Lockyer
                                                                   
708.5KAOT01::M_MORINLe diable est aux vaches!Thu May 27 1993 16:2235
Cherry is a sports figure.
Bourassa is a politician.

Issues relating to Hockey belong to hockey figures.
Issues relating to politics belong to political figures.

Need I say more?

Cherry has no business getting involved in politics.

Re:

>    With respect to Bourassa (and others) - Cherry was promoting one language 
>    over another and Bourassa does the same thing, and carries it further
>    by using the power he has to pass laws that go way beyond uttering an 
>    opinion.

Bourassa was democratically elected to *pass laws*.  Somehow, I don't think
Cherry was hired to promote his political views on Hockey fans.

Re:

>    If Cherry (or anyone else) makes his language preference known and that
>    statement is considered racist (and by association, the person),
>    shouldn't logic dictate that anyone who makes their preference known be
>    considered racist, and be similarly dealt with (censored etc.)?

What language you prefer has nothing to do with being a racist.  I prefer
French as I'm sure most unilingual anglos prefer English.  We are not
necessarily racists because of it.  However, making racist comments has 
everything to do with racism.  If the line "the good language" was used then
that's racist.  Logic dictates.

/Mario
708.6Sounds like: "I don't like it, so it must be racist!"KAOFS::LOCKYERNO! (Tact Is For Weenies!!)Thu May 27 1993 17:148
    Mario,
    
    An MP wants Cherry censored because of the supposedly racist comments
    Cherry made last Monday night, not anything he may have said previously. 
    What is racist about what he said on Monday?  If Cherry had said
    "French is the good language", would that be racist?
    
    Garry
708.7KAOT01::M_MORINLe diable est aux vaches!Thu May 27 1993 17:5019
"French is the good language"

	IS RACIST.

"Jewish is the right religion"

	IS RACIST

"Black skin is the wrong colour"

	IS RACIST

Re:

> Sounds like: "I don't like it, so it must be racist!"

Sorry Garry, you've got the wrong guy.

/Mario
708.8inquireing minds are moderatly interested....KAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relativeThu May 27 1993 18:0010
    Mario,
    
    IF
    >>"French is the good language"
    >>        IS RACIST.
    
    Then how can the systematic suppression of all languages (except of
    course the "good" language) to promote another language not be racist ?
    
    							Derek.
708.9"a rose by any other name..."MQOSWS::N_CARDELLAFather of TigerThu May 27 1993 18:0217
708.10Why is support for a language racist?KAOFS::LOCKYERNO! (Tact Is For Weenies!!)Thu May 27 1993 18:5221
    Hey Normand, can we stick to the discussion and not assume that there's
    any hidden agenda or ulterior motives...
    
    You are correct that I can not recall exactly what Cherry said or the exact
    words that the CBC News folks used.  In any event, I do not believe
    (ie. I did not hear him say it myself and the CBS News item did not
    quote him as saying it) Cherry uttered the word "French", nor do I believe 
    he put down French.  He merely made a comment in support of the use of 
    English in SS Marie.  Does a statement of support for a language make
    you a racist, unfit for employment and/or warrant censoring?
    
    Mario:  Let's assume that I agree with you about what is a racist
    statement.  Wouldn't you agree that there are many people besides Don
    Cherry who say similar things and are therefore racist?  Aren't some of
    those people in public office?  What's worse, a racist sports
    commentator or a racist politician?  Who should be censored first?
    
    Regards,
    
    Garry
             
708.11KAOT01::M_MORINLe diable est aux vaches!Thu May 27 1993 18:5930
I'm referring to quotes Derek, like the one Don Cherry is alleged to have said.

I've never heard Bourassa ever say any such things.  If you're asking me to
admit that the Quebec government's policies appear to be racist then you've got
it out of me.  They are.  But the Quebec government is changing it's policies
as we all know.  >60% of the French population agree that we should allow
bilingual signs.

Going back to the original topic of discussion:

>    So, are Cherry's comments racist and should he be censored?  Is what
>    Cherry said any worse than Robert Bourassa (or anyone else) publicly 
>    making statements in support of French and passing laws (contrary to 
>    the Quebec and Canadian constitutions) to illegalize it use?  Should 
>    Bourassa be censored for making racist comments?

Cherry's comments racist?    Yes and out of place.  If he wants to make such
comments, he should do it in his own time, not on CBC's time.  Should he be
censored?  No.  But I hope someone at CBC is looking at this closely.

Any worse than Bourassa's *racist* comments?  Should be re-phrased to "racist"
policies.  They're just as bad.

Should Bourassa be censored for making racist comments?  Should be re-phrased to
passing "racist* legislation.  Answer:  No.  Bourassa was democratically elected
to rule and is doing just that.  Can the federal government censor a provincial
premier?  I don't think so.


/Mario
708.12.11 was a reply to .8KAOT01::M_MORINLe diable est aux vaches!Thu May 27 1993 19:070
708.13Can't preach to the converted.KAOFS::D_STREETVirtue is relativeThu May 27 1993 19:4711
    
    >>I've never heard Bourassa ever say any such things.  If you're asking me
    >>to admit that the Quebec government's policies appear to be racist then
    >>you've got it out of me.  They are.
    
     I have a feeling it is not you I am trying to make the point to. It's
    the people who can't see the "problem" I have issue with.
    
    							Derek
    
    
708.14Cherry for PM ?????KAOOA::MACLELLANTerry MacLellan dtn 640-7077Fri May 28 1993 02:5517
    So glad to see my tax dollars going to such a great cause.
    If our overpayed, candya$$ MPs, sitting in Mulroney's castle,
    would pay more attention to what's happening in our country than Don
    Cherry's off the wall comments we'd be a better country.
    
    Cherry has always stated his beliefs, and is honest about them - 
    whether we agree with him or not - unlike most of our fork 
    tongued politicians.
    
    Cherry has always been a sh*t disturber and always will be. I don't
    think the man is a racist, but he certainly knows how to keep his name
    in the news. Isn't that what politics and entertainment is all about.
     
    Gary, did you hear who the MP was ? 
    
    Terry
    Terry   
708.15C'est pareil en francaisKAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowFri May 28 1993 20:245
    I'm glad you guys don't watch french TV or listen to french radio, we
    have the same type of outbursts too against the (english) bad language.
    
    Jean
    
708.16DCEIDL::HINXMANDo not adjust your mind ...Sat May 29 1993 14:4211
	re .15

>    I'm glad you guys don't watch french TV or listen to french radio, we

	Jean,
	And after all those notes you've put in about how much better off
	the anglophones would be if they could partake of French language TV.

	:-)

	Tony
708.17Lockyer is the RACIST ;*))KAOFS::WATTERSMon May 31 1993 13:055
708.18POLAR::RICHARDSONSick in a balanced sort of wayMon May 31 1993 13:334
    The Grand Canal is great!!!
    
    
    Thank you very much.
708.20DON CHERRY for PM?TROOA::BROOKSMon May 31 1993 15:4412
    Gee... and I was going to start a note suggesting Don Cherry for PM!!!!
    
    This string aside, I LIKE DON CHERRY and have no problem admitting it. 
    He is something a lot Canadians (E&F) are too afraid or mellow to do:
    SPEAK THEIR MINDS.  Yes, he's a sh**-disturber but every now and then
    that is what is needed.  Would the country be a worse place if more
    people were like Don Cherry;? I'm not so sure, politics aside.
    
    my deux centes
    
    Doug
    
708.21KAOFS::J_DESROSIERSLets procrastinate....tomorrowMon May 31 1993 16:328
    Now wait a minute Doug, you will have to change your last name and the
    sooner the better.  After reading your answer, I tought STUART BROOKS
    had somehow "changed" and allowed his true feeling to come out.  
    
    Oh well
    
    Jean
    
708.22< Je suis ein European-er ..EH !>KAOFS::J_VORSTANDMon May 31 1993 18:2924
    
    OH GEE.... ANOTHER *DEBATE*....
    
    
    	Garry, if you need to know the meaning of racist, try the
    dictionary... Whats this anyway...
    					 pick on Mario day...??
    
    I say let the skin heads at them, and then we'll have both, entertainment 
    AND racism !! ... at its finest...
    
    I watch french TV all the time.... its really NO different than English
    TV.... except Bourassa's on both, and Cherry's only on the English
    channel....  Then there's BLEU NUIT.... nope, no racism in there.... 
    No Bourassa either....or Cherry for that matter... 
    
    Imagine , making an issue about something I THOUGHT I
    heard, and SUPPOSING "I Said"....   
    
    Niuk...Niuk...
    
    Oh me Oh my...
    
    
708.23Who's prejudiced here eh?KAOFS::M_PAYETTEFri Aug 27 1993 17:2622
    Don Cherry is a sports figure that, in the past 5 years has gained and
    lost a good amount of respect from both the French speaking and English
    speaking sectors of Canada.
    
    When the man utters a word, it's usually at a time where the topic has
    been recently brought up or is of a sensitive matter.
    
    I like him because he speaks his mind and sometimes I wonder if he's
    going to be on the television much longer because of his comments.
    
    The way I look at it is if you respond vocally to anything he says,
    then you're a sucker for doing it and who knows, maybe you're the
    prejudiced one.  You have to remember that Don
    Cherry has been doing this for a number of years and has good reason 
    for speaking the way he does.
    
    He's got a bad mouth but he's a good role model for youngsters getting
    into hockey.  He believes in the old hockey rules and so do I and I
    think he tries to apply those rules to life. He's a simple man.
    
    People on television will say things that not everyone agrees to so
    don't get all pumped up about Don.
708.24Jimmy the Greek Cherry!!!POLAR::STOODLEYTue Mar 01 1994 21:2422
    
    
    
         I was talking to a friend of mine on the weekend who has 
    had the honour of meeting Don Cherry in person.  Don was telling
    my friend unofficially that He has struck a network deal with the
    CBC for the 95 programming season.
    
         Apparently, Coaches' Corner will remain the same as it should,
    as well as a half hour pre-game show similar to the "NFL TODAY"
    format.
    
         The guys would be Don, Ron Maclean and Clark Gillies.
    They would analyze all games to follow that night.  I myself couldn't
    be happier to hear this great news!  I feel it will change the face
    of hockey as we know it!
    
         Expect a ratings bonanza across all of North America.
        
         How do you guys feel about this???
    
    
708.25more canadian programs from CBCKAOT01::R_HARPERThis space unavailable, Digital has it nowThu Mar 03 1994 15:0029
    When it comes to talking hockey or sports in general, Don is  good
    to the viewing audience.  
    He's not bad at being an ambassador for the physical Canadian style
    of game.
    He sticks his CHERRY RED-NECK out and leaves it out there, when he
    takes on, the presence of European players in the league, questionable
    rule changes, questionable rulings handed down by the league, anything
    that impacts the sport of hockey. He has his stance, and it belongs 
    on Coaches Corner and Grapevine and any spin off program.
    
    He entertaining...he's good TV.
    
    
    When he leaves the sporting forum to run amock in the political
    arena...then I rather watch Rush LimBORE. 
 
    
    So will he get syndicated on SRC too... +:-)
    
    richard
    
 ps.
    Isn't it interesting how a few years ago Hockey Night in Canada and
    even Gobal later had a commentator Dave Hodge that spoke his mind.
    He got canned for it..both times. AND he was/is a good journalist. 
    A tamed Dave Hodge now lives on TSN. 
    
    
    
708.26Check out the Hockey File!POLAR::STOODLEYThu Mar 03 1994 20:5813
    
    
         Great reply, Richard!
    
    Could you possibly place your reply in the HOCKEY notes file
    #330 which is the Official Don Cherry note there.  I think you
    will find much of the entries there quite interesting if not 
    refreshing.
    
                                                  Regards,
    
    
                                                  Blair
708.27Cherry - that's entertainmentKAOOA::MACLELLANhardware..software..silverware..Fri Mar 04 1994 04:0418
    What did Don have to say about the Canada-Sweden game. I didn't hear
    anyhting from him. 
    I'll bet he would have been a lot more colorful than Greg Millen 
    and Don Chevrier, CTV's Olympic hockey play by play team.
    
    If anyone wants to know why Cherry is so popular in Canada, all one has
    to do is watch an Ottawa Senators game on TV. Millen and Chevriere are
    the commentators, and they are about as exciting as watching paint dry.
    
    Don adds some color back into the game - good or bad, that's
    entertainment.
    
    Interesting, Cherry is going to retire from his Grapevine show 
    that's on TSN. It's currently the highest ranked show on TSN. Don 
    says he's getting too old to do the Grapevine, HNIC and all his public
    appearances.
    
    Terry