T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
---|
329.1 | Article from Boston Globe | COGITO::HILL | | Thu Jul 12 1990 13:12 | 27 |
| This is an article reprinted (without permission) from today's Boston
Globe:
(Reuters)
[Headline] Police officer is slain in Quebec during Mohawk Indian
protest
[Text]
MONTREAL-- Mohawk Indians trying to protect their ancestral lands from
being turned into a golf course fought a fierce gun battle with Quebec
police yesterday. One policeman was killed.
The fight errupted after about 100 Quebec policemen in riot gear
stormed an illegal barricade set up on a hilltop just outside Oka, a
small own 20 miles west of Montreal. Cpl. Marcel Lemay, 31, was
pronounced dead a short time later by a Montreal hospital. He had been
shot in the face.
The Indians, who are heavily armed, are trying to prevent the Oka
town council from carrying out a plan to expand a 9-hole golf course by
clearing land they claim as their own.
A provincial police spokesman said the Mohawks opened fire on
police after they tried to enforce a June 30 court injunction requiring
the removal of the roadblocks outside Oka. But several Mohawks said the
police started the gun battle even though there were Mohawk women and
children behind the barricade.
[end of text]
Tom
|
329.2 | it's a police problem, currently | COOKIE::HOE | Daddy, what's a bitch? | Thu Jul 12 1990 14:01 | 22 |
| <<< Note 329.0 by MQOFS::DESROSIERS "Lets procrastinate....tomorrow" >>>
-< WAR, the indians are on the war path! >-
>>>>WE ARE AT WAR,
>>>>Now I wonder if Canada will come to our rescue, and what about the
British?
Jean
You mean Quebec Povincial Police is having a problem and you want
intervention from the rest of Canada? It's hardly a federal
problem when a golf course, encircled by Mohawk reservation land,
is in dispute. I believe that the issue is between the Oka town
administration and the Mohawk nation. I believe that if the
Mohawks take the town of Oka, then it becomes a federal problem.
calvin
BTW, on my first year at UBC, I had a French tutor who was full
blood Mohawk. He spoke French better then our Cnanadian
professor.
|
329.3 | British gunboats up the St Lawrence?? | OTOU01::BUCKLAND | and things were going so well... | Thu Jul 12 1990 14:34 | 13 |
| Jean,
What about the British?
Putting my British hat firmly back on my head for a moment.
Sorry mate. We gave responsibility for the whole ball of wax to you
guys back in 1982. Not our problem.
And why would you want the British involved anyway?
Cheers,
Bob
|
329.4 | Oka, Canada | ORCAS::MCKINNON_JA | I'm a Beaver, You're a Beaver | Thu Jul 12 1990 15:06 | 10 |
|
It was reported on "the National" at 6 pm PDT 11-Jul-1990 ANIK-1
that the policeman who was killed was quite possibly killed by another
policeman. Shot in the mouth. 33 years old.
I did not see any coverage on this incident on the american telecasts.
"The National" coverage ran 10 minutes. Very interesting reporting.
|
329.5 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Thu Jul 12 1990 16:36 | 17 |
| WELL I guess NOW we know who our freinds are if Canada will not come to
our rescue and if the British army won't as well, then I guess we will
have to appeal to Gorby, after all he's got all these nuclear weapons
just waiting to be used somewhere.
Seriously, the whole thing was a mess done by the Oka administration
and the provincial police. The indians had been occupying the
territory for the last six months, 99% of the population was AGAINST
the expansion of the golf course, the only ones for were most of the
town's administrators who were also members of said golf course and
other members of the golf course and the contractor. It would have
remained funny if the policeman had not been shot (BTW he was shot in
the arm and the bullet ricoched off a bone to enter his body under his
arm piercing his heart, even tough he was wearing a bulletproof vest).
Jean
|
329.6 | Tongue in cheek only. | OTOO01::POND | | Thu Jul 12 1990 17:17 | 10 |
| RE: 329.2
>> federal problem.
You mean, like Quebec 'National' Assembly...or 'Nationalistic'
feelings?
JP
(Sorry Jean, I just COULDN'T resist!)
|
329.7 | Mohawk or Dove? | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Thu Jul 12 1990 18:21 | 1 |
| Guess the Injuns don't have a unique society...
|
329.8 | | KAOFS::S_BROOK | It's time for a summertime dream | Thu Jul 12 1990 18:55 | 24 |
329.9 | Enough Already | MTHOOD::BIGCRANEJO | | Thu Jul 12 1990 20:31 | 9 |
|
RE:.7
I'm not the type of person to normally write but I am offended and
appalled by the ignorance of people to what the native americans
are going through. It takes an act of aggression to make people
believe that the natives will not bough under acts to take away
the lands they already have. I am mostly offended by the use of
"injun" I guess it takes all kinds.
|
329.10 | What IS "Truth" | COGITO::HILL | | Thu Jul 12 1990 20:56 | 13 |
| Hmmm, this is interesting that there are wide fluctuations in
reporting of this story. I retyped verbatim form the Globe (Reuters
news service) in .1, and it seems that there are varying
interpretations of this.
Naturally, it is a tragedy when someone gets shot like this. My gut
instinct was that the town council was bullying the Mohawks using the
"White Man's" legal system (rich & powerful interests AND golfers) to
get what they wanted. I'm sure that this disagreement has been going on
for some time, and it finally escalated to this.
Any other comments?
Tom
|
329.11 | | KAOFS::S_BROOK | It's time for a summertime dream | Thu Jul 12 1990 21:09 | 11 |
| It seems that it wasn't so much the legal as the political system,
where the elected representatives act supposedly on behalf of the
people "for the benefit of the town". Well, sometimes that benefit
becomes terribly questionable.
Let's just say it's the old adage "Power corrupts and absolute power
corrupts absolutely". Town councils often seem to fit somewhere in
that range.
Stuart
|
329.12 | | COOKIE::HOE | Daddy, what's a bitch? | Thu Jul 12 1990 21:27 | 9 |
| I'd be willing to bet that a resolution to the expansion of the
golf course IF the Oka town administration support the public
gambling that the American Mohawks wanted.
Interesting that Paul Harvey news out of Chicago (broadcast on
Denver's KOA news radio) at noon did not report the death of the
Province de Quebec Provincial policeman.
calvin
|
329.13 | One newspaper's report.. | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | Ahem!Gabh mo Leithsceal,Muinteoir! | Fri Jul 13 1990 01:15 | 28 |
| Re. 10
>> newspaper reports...
From the Montreal Gazette:
OKA - Mohawk Indians yesterday threatened to blow up the Mercier Bridge
if natives are injured in any resumption of violence by provincial
police officers against their people.
The threat came in the wake of a bloody clash between Mohawks and
police at Oka early yesterday that left one Surete' du Quebec officer dead.
The violence began around dawn when a squad of about 100 provincial police
officers moved in to clear a dirt road through a piece of woodland the
Mohawks claim as their own. The Mohawks have barricades on the road
since March, and the town of Oka had called police.
Officers drove natives away from the barricade with tear gas and
concussion grenades at about 8:30 a.m., but gunfire erupted after police
had moved in to remove the dirt mounds and cement blocks. In the exchange
of gunfire, Cpl. Marcel Lemay, 31 was fatally shot.
Police and native versions of the conflict varied sharply, each accusing
the other of firing first.
Natives contend that Lemay shot himself or was shot by other officers.
The Surete' said he was gunned down by a Mohawk who leaped out of a trench
in the woods and fired at a group of officers.
(From the July 12 1990 issue of Montreal Gazette - the first 6 paragraphs)
Written by Alexander Norris and Mike King.
FaZari.
|
329.14 | | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Fri Jul 13 1990 03:33 | 11 |
| Some people will look for anything to be offended by.
Does "Indian" offend? If not, then why does "Injun" offend?
If it really does, I'll never use it again; I thought it was just a
"western" pronounciation, and not a derogatory term.
/john
"P.S.: I'm offended by "Yank" -- but doubt that the British will ever stop
using it.
|
329.15 | | GVA01::ATKINSON | Just the facts kid | Fri Jul 13 1990 07:26 | 10 |
| Having talk to my parents in Cornwall last night they mentioned
that the Warriors (the "law enforcement" group - remember the note
about the gambling problem) from the Indian reserve outside of
Cornwall, Ontario were planning on going up to Oka to support these
people.
I don't think that the problem in Oka is related to the gambling
issue in New York state. They are separate issuses.
Alan
|
329.16 | | OTOU01::BUCKLAND | Quality is not a problem | Fri Jul 13 1990 12:28 | 6 |
| John,
Why would we British ever want to YANK your chain?
8-)
Bob
|
329.17 | Newpaper Update 13-JUL-1990 | ORCAS::MCKINNON_JA | I'm a ENA, You're a ENA | Fri Jul 13 1990 18:09 | 61 |
| Reported in the Valley Daily news of South King County, Seattle
Washington. Auburn, really.
Date Friday the 13th, 1990
Oka, Quebec. Mohawk Indians opened talks Thursday with the Quebec
gov. after a police officer was killed in a gunfight, but swore
to keep their barricades up until police leave and they get immunity
from prosecution.
The confrontation is over gov. plans to build a golf course
addition the Indians say encroaches on their ancestral land.
Police brought in reinforcements THursday, bringing up about
1,000 the number of officers in the area.
The Mohawks dug trenches and strengthened their concrete block
and barbed wire barriers with crushed police cars as they prepared
for a possible showdown.
Dozens of police wearing flak jackets and carrying shotguns
were seen patrolling their new sandbagged positions reinforced with
concrete blocks.
All day, the two sides faced each other across their barricades,
about 200 Mohawks at the top of a hill on the highway that goes
through this picturesque town, 18 miles west of montreal, and the
police at the bottom of the hill.
Late Thursday, Quebec's native affairs minister, John Ciaccia,
arrived. He told reporters he would say nothing after his talks
with the Mohawks.
"The police have to retreat completely from the area before
we can ever work out a deal with Ciaccia," Mohawk spokesman Ellen
Gabriel said.
"Ciaccia said he came here because he has a sense of responsibility
to help us. Frankly we don't trust the provincial gov. very much
but we have to have faith in Ciaccia for the moment."
A Ciaccia aide said earlier the minister was negotiating with
members of the Mohawk band council and their Warriors Society, trying
to resolve the dispute.
Mohawks wearing camouflage and carring revolvers, hunting rifles
and assault rifles spread into the golf course. They raised the
yellow and red Warrior Society flag over the immaculate lawns and
commandeered a fleet of golf cars to ferry leaders and messages
between encampments.
The Mohawks claim title to a small pine forest the town of Oka
wants to cut down so the local golf course can add nine holes.
Police intervened at the request of Oka's mayor after Mohawks refused
to tear down a small barricade they built four months ago.
Early Wednesday, a raiding force of about 100 Quebec police
attacked the barricade. They retreated after Cpl. Marcel Lemay,
31, was shot fatally and the tear gas they launched blew back in
their faces.
Police were not sure whether Lemay was shot by a Mohawk or by
a fellow policeman.
End of article.....
not the end of this story though.....
jim mckinnon @bwa
orcas::mckinnon_ja
DTN 540-1094
|
329.18 | Indians 1, Visitors 0 | ORCAS::MCKINNON_JA | I'm a ENA, You're a ENA | Fri Jul 13 1990 18:13 | 3 |
| Also, the mayor of Oka was moved to a hidden location.
This was done for his safety............
|
329.19 | only words? | MTHOOD::BIGCRANEJO | | Sat Jul 14 1990 03:26 | 9 |
| RE:14
Yes, depending on who you talk to "Indian" does offend. We are not
from India, but are Native Americans. I don't have any bad feelings
toward people from India, just we are trying to get our own indentity.
Some people just don't think before they talk. I don't want to argue
it's just I have seen and felt the prejudice through the years.
John Bigcrane PDO
MTHOOD::BIGCRANEJO
Portland,Oregon
|
329.20 | more stuff.... | ORCAS::MCKINNON_JA | I'm a ENA, You're a ENA | Sun Jul 15 1990 14:07 | 12 |
|
In the Seattle Times on Friday the 13th, 1990 the story was a bit
different.
It was stated in the Auburn paper that 1000 police had been placed
on standby in the area.
The Seattle paper had the number at "dozen's".
Both bylines were "AP".....
jim mckinnon
|
329.21 | mon 16 july | ORCAS::MCKINNON_JA | The UnOfficial goodwill games | Mon Jul 16 1990 15:18 | 5 |
| Another update. The stores are running out of food on the REZ
and the townspeople were on the telly suggesting that the Mohwaks
return to hunting off the land.
This is the info that gets to the west coast of usa. Chek-tv 6
|
329.22 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Mon Jul 16 1990 16:04 | 15 |
329.23 | Need a better name than that... | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Tue Jul 17 1990 18:59 | 4 |
| And before you tell us it's "Native Americans", please tell me why I'm not
one of them, too, since I was born here.
/john
|
329.24 | A modest proposal | VAOU02::HALLIDAY | Look to the future | Tue Jul 17 1990 19:39 | 8 |
| I'll settle for Amerindian, since I too was born here. As were my
parents, and (on my mom's side) about 15 generations of parents before
that. My dad's folks were born in the U.K.
Aboriginal or any variation won't work, because people will think
`Australia'.
...laura
|
329.25 | Native | MTHOOD::BIGCRANEJO | | Tue Jul 17 1990 20:54 | 4 |
| Native Americans refer to people native to the americas. Since
some was there to see you or your ancestors arrive, then you are
not native.
|
329.26 | Who did the first whirly-twirly? | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Tue Jul 17 1990 21:52 | 19 |
| Considering that we all go back to Adam and Eve, I think it would
be safe to say that we were all here first. We also know that things
got all messed up at the Tower Of Babel, that's why we now have
bilingual money in Canada.
Another interesting thing to ponder is, Adam and Eve probably
didn't have any belly buttons which makes me think of playing water
polo on the Grand Canal. If only I could figure out a way to keep the
horses from drowning, this could become another of Canada's National
Sports!
Another interesting thought:
Nothing is better than having Brian Mulrooney as Primeminister.
A ham sandwich is better than nothing.
Therefore, a ham sandwich is better than.....
Glenn
|
329.27 | Confusion? | RTL::HINXMAN | Sufficient unto the day | Tue Jul 17 1990 21:59 | 5 |
| I note that CBC commonly uses the phrase "aboriginal people", but this
seems to cover both the "Indians" and the Inuit. Are the Inuit "native
Americans?
Tony
|
329.28 | This should satisfy both sides...? | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | Ahem!Gabh mo Leithsceal,Muinteoir! | Tue Jul 17 1990 23:23 | 3 |
|
What about the term/designation Indigenous Canadians/U.S.Americans.etc?
|
329.29 | | TRCO01::FINNEY | Keep cool, but do not freeze | Tue Jul 17 1990 23:54 | 4 |
| I prefer the expression "first Peoples" (capital 'P').
Scooter
(1/4 Micmac)
|
329.30 | | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Wed Jul 18 1990 05:20 | 12 |
| Who gets to be "first Peoples"?
The first hundred over the land bridge in the Bering Sea?
People migrated into the Americas for a _long_ time.
I'm just as native an American as you; my ancestors came from the East
a few hundred years ago; yours came from the west much longer ago.
How about not using racial labels at all...
/john
|
329.31 | | RTL::HINXMAN | Sufficient unto the day | Wed Jul 18 1990 11:02 | 15 |
| re .30
> I'm just as native an American as you; my ancestors came from the East
> a few hundred years ago; yours came from the west much longer ago.
"To an American a hundred years is a long time. Viewed from any
perspective other than their own, the Caucasian inhabitants of
North America are parvenus.
> How about not using racial labels at all...
Kind of difficult when the issues you are discussing are based on
ethnicity.
Tony
|
329.32 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Wed Jul 18 1990 14:20 | 3 |
| Scooter,
Are you a Big Micmac?
|
329.33 | | KAOO01::BORDA | On the Horns of an Enema | Wed Jul 18 1990 15:20 | 4 |
|
I prefer Glenn's historical overview and the ham sandwhich
logic..??????..I think...
|
329.34 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Wed Jul 18 1990 15:28 | 5 |
| re -.1
Thank you.
One question though. Wouldn't an enema with horns be painful?
|
329.35 | What Bridge? | MTHOOD::BIGCRANEJO | | Wed Jul 18 1990 16:14 | 5 |
|
I knew the Bering Land Bridge was going to be used, and that
is just a theory. I believe our people have always been here and
the land bridge theory was brought up just to satisfy their beliefs.
|
329.36 | What is your belief? | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Wed Jul 18 1990 16:37 | 16 |
| So if you are an evolutionist, man evolved on two sides of the planet.
That is like lightning striking the same place 30 trillion times. Or
winning lotto 6/49 every time you play.
If you believe in creation, which I do, God plunked the American
natives where they are (Known as Tower Of Babel Transporter Effect or
TOBTE). I'd tend to believe this theory as God did scatter the people
throughout the earth as told in Genesis. This could mean he plunked
them there or lead them across the Land Bridge. Still, man had one
beginning no matter which way you look at it.
At any rate, I'm getting the impression that some Natives believe that
they are special. Well, this could be. Just about every race has some
similar belief so why should American Natives be any different.
Glenn
|
329.37 | | KAOO01::BORDA | On the Horns of an Enema | Wed Jul 18 1990 16:44 | 4 |
|
Yes Glen..VERY painful....it makes me do whirly twirlies for hours
on end...
|
329.38 | Where does the line get drawn? | JAIMES::FINUCANE | A future Golden Girl | Wed Jul 18 1990 16:57 | 7 |
| If I, being of Irish and French descent *but* born here in the states,
am not Native American, than what am I? Just plain old American?
I think I'm confused.
Cathy_who_wishes_she_was_Canadian_but_don't_ask_me_to_explain_that_logic_to_
you_because_I_just_know_that_I_want_to_be.
|
329.39 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Wed Jul 18 1990 17:33 | 6 |
| Cathy,
Your statement is interesting. Why do you wish you were Canadian?
Glenn
|
329.40 | FYI | JAIMES::FINUCANE | A future Golden Girl | Wed Jul 18 1990 17:50 | 2 |
| Always a smart*ss in every group ;-)
|
329.41 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Wed Jul 18 1990 19:49 | 5 |
| Come on Cathy, I'm serious! Why do you wish you were a Canadian? I
want to know what other people find so attractive about Canadian
citizenship. Is it our great sense of humour?
Glenn
|
329.42 | get back to the topic.... | ORCAS::MCKINNON_JA | They sell it on the streets in Van. | Wed Jul 18 1990 22:44 | 9 |
|
Back to the topic people. Are more cops getting killed? Are any
Indians/natives/abo's/first Peoples *?* The news story is not
getting reported on in Seattle, Washington.
Seattle = Chief Se*lth. Famous Indian Chief.
Washington = Famous White man Chief.
|
329.43 | Headline read: Police Riot Squad Holds Back..Mob | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | Ahem!Gabh mo Leithsceal,Muinteoir! | Wed Jul 18 1990 23:07 | 52 |
|
Re. 42 by ORCAS::MCKINNON -< get back to the topic ..>-
A GAZETTE newspaper report filed by Jeff Heinrich & Greame Hamilton
===================================================================
CHATEAUGUAY - Hundreds of white residents milled around a shopping
centre just outside the Kahnawake reserve last night, angrily
protesting the native blockade of the Mercier Bridge.
Some of them were ready to attack anyone who looked like a native.
About 9pm provincial and municipal police had to form a human ring to
protect a teenage girl whom the crowd thought was a Mohawk. The crowd
had started chasing her when she came from woods besides the Mohawk
barricade and entered a shopping centre parking lot where the crowd
had gathered.
"Go back home" they yelled, hurling obscenities at the
teen. A 22 year old man carrying a skull and crossbones flag, was part
of the crowd that had chased the girl.
"We can't go there, so they have no business coming here. If we'd
caught her, she would have got a good beating " he said.
An hour later, the mob spotted another woman they believed was a native
inside a car, and surrounded the vehicle. About 100 people pounded on
the vehicle and screamed at the woman as a frightened boy stared out the
window. Police officers arrived in riot gear and pushed the crowd back
with their nightsticks. They escorted the car out of the parking lot and
on to the street, where it quickly drove off.
The crowd then turned on the police chanting "chicken, chicken" at them.
In the afternoon the crowd tried to block an ambulance coming off the
reserve. A pregnant Mohawk woman in labor was inside the ambulance.
Surete' du Quebec officers drove the crowd back and forced the ambulance
through. The crowd spent most of the day taunting the Mohawks just inside
the reserve as they camped behind a trailer on the road.
Chateauguay residents watched them with binoculars from atop bus shelters.
Two white men became the first victims of the mob, which first
gathered at noon. Hearing a rumor that two Mohawk women were inside the
supermarket buying groceries to take back to the reserve - with police
permission - the crowd moved in.
While the women escaped by the back door, two young white men showed up
in army fatigues, and were chased and beaten.
Three cars were kicked and a windshield was smashed with a motorcycle
helmet. Surete' officers moved in and dragged away the men who had been
attacked, pulling them with their nightsticks at the men's throat, and
sheltering them behind an empty store next to the Highway 138 barricade.
While the crowd jeered, a sister of the one of the beaten men tearfully
pleaded for his release "My brother is not a Warrior" said Darlene Walsh.
The police then drove the two white men who had been mistaken by the
mob for Mohawks to a safe location while the crowd jeered.
(From the front page & of July 14 Montreal Gazette)
|
329.44 | Back to the topic | CHOLON::LUU | | Thu Jul 19 1990 01:59 | 38 |
329.45 | | TRCO01::FINNEY | Keep cool, but do not freeze | Thu Jul 19 1990 05:07 | 42 |
| >>>
A National Defence spokesman in Ottawa denied there were any
unusual troop movements and said the department would not intervene
unless asked to do so by provicial authorities.
<<<
Interesting. Considering that no province has jurisdiction over
the regular forces ... they have to go through the Feds. The feds
have been playing "Crisis ? What Crisis ?" to themselves.
re: Big Micmac.
8^)
re: who's first ...
where do you draw the line - well, considering that there is evidence
of descendants of the Micmac that goes back to between 7000 and
13000 years spread from Northern Labrador to east coast U.S. and
the spread between then and even the Viking's explorations would
seem to be at least one order of magnitude.
But that's all stuff and nonsense - Treaties were made between the
descendants of European settlers and the people who were living
and using the land before the settlers arrived - treaties which
have been ignored, abused or violated outright. Some disputes before
the courts go back to well before confederation - the local
settler's governments have in most cases (to paraphrase) said -
OK, of these umpteen sq. miles of your land, you only use X%, so
you reserve that, and we'll figure out how to divide the rest -
and meanwhile, the rest, while being "worked out" gets settled, and
all of a sudden we have a fait accompli, with mobs of "civilized"
folk, demanding the army go in and clear out all those "unreasonable"
people so that they can use a bridge built on land that their gov't
didn't even acquire legally.
But might makes right, right ?
or does it ?
Scooter
|
329.46 | Be proud!!! | KAOFS::N_BAXTER | we'll see who rusts first... | Thu Jul 19 1990 13:45 | 16 |
| Canuks;
What the &*^% has happened to "us". Here is a country that is supposed
to be a world leader, and we are acting no better than South Africa, Iran,
and the rest of the so called scum.
Where is the leadership?? Imagine, the Red Cross needs to supply food to a
group in Canada that is blocked from going to the store. Something that we
can all be very proud of!
Hey guys....where is the uproar over the fact that morons are playing with
people lives, and our world image like it was a school ground.
What happened to adults talking to each other?
|
329.47 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Thu Jul 19 1990 14:44 | 16 |
| If every person who was ever deposessed of his land tried to get it
back, we would ALL be in deep doo-doo. Just look at what the English
did when they deported the Accadians in 1755, do you all think they
should get their land back? What about people who were expropriated to
build airports, bridges and roads?
What the Mohaks have done in Oka, is protect the land they NOW have,
this I think is right, altough I do NOT approve of the violent way they
have been doing it. But what the warriors have done on the south
shore IS wrong, and they should stop doing it if they want to keep
public opinion on their side, and public support is fading fast since
they keep a LOT of people hostage by tying up that bridge.
Jean
|
329.48 | Cdn government to buy the disputed lands??? | 8713::HOE | Daddy, let's go camping! | Fri Jul 20 1990 14:52 | 4 |
| An AP dispatch in the Denver Post said that the Canadian
government is going to buy the land in dispute. Is that true?
calvin
|
329.49 | | KAOFS::S_BROOK | It's time for a summertime dream | Fri Jul 20 1990 15:29 | 2 |
| That is the plan ... IFFFFFF the standoff ends! No negotiation with
guns at heads.
|
329.50 | Who are they trying to flush out? | KAOM25::RUSHTON | Unscathed by inspired lunacy | Fri Jul 20 1990 19:05 | 5 |
| <<No negotiation with guns at heads.
Why are they holding toilets hostage?
|
329.51 | Vancouver Island. | ORCAS::MCKINNON_JA | They sell it on the streets in Van. | Sun Jul 22 1990 16:58 | 7 |
|
I went to Campbell River on Vancouver Island over the week-end and
there was a symbolic roadblock set up by the *indians* that live
in the area. Some artwork was displayed and they had signs that
made remarks about being *prisoners* for the last 110 years.
|
329.52 | | KAOO01::BORDA | On the Horns of an Enema | Mon Jul 23 1990 14:30 | 3 |
|
It's a symbolic toilet Pat...not a real one..
|
329.53 | 'Symbolic enemas' only, please. | KAOM25::RUSHTON | Unscathed by inspired lunacy | Mon Jul 23 1990 19:40 | 6 |
| A 'symbolic toilet'?!? You must be daft!
"Oi, mate! Wot yer doing on my bloody floor?", says the gaffer.
"Oooh! I am so deeply sorry but I didn't realise that your toilet was
only a symbol.", said Malcolm Milquetoast.
|
329.54 | | KAOO01::BORDA | On the Horns of an Enema | Mon Jul 23 1990 20:18 | 3 |
|
Sorry mate...must have been the prune daquiri's I had for lunch....
|
329.55 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Mon Jul 23 1990 20:46 | 3 |
| Prune daiquiris, bran muffins and jalipeno peppers.
Symbolic toilets will help you get ahead.
|
329.56 | | KAOO01::BORDA | On the Horns of an Enema | Tue Jul 24 1990 17:07 | 3 |
|
With that lunch menu Glenn the term being regular would be symbolic...
|
329.57 | Canadian troops to Mohawk reservation? | CLOSUS::HOE | Daddy, what is war? | Thu Aug 09 1990 15:59 | 4 |
| CNN reported that the Oka town folks requested Canadian Forces to
help in the dispute.
calvin
|
329.58 | Advantages of Confederation? | RTL::HINXMAN | Sufficient unto the day | Thu Aug 09 1990 17:10 | 4 |
| Now, if Quebec were an independent nation, how would they have sorted
this lot out?
Tony
|
329.59 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Thu Aug 09 1990 22:50 | 7 |
| They would have held a referendum, which is certainly what Newfoundland
would do!
Or they would have held a whirly-twirly festival.
8^)
|
329.60 | Troops on call | KAOA01::LAPLANTE | | Fri Aug 10 1990 11:48 | 19 |
|
The Quebec government has requested that the military man the
blockades. There has been no request for direct military action
against the Mohawk barricades.
LtGen Foster, commander of the army, stated in a press conference
that troops would not be on the line before next week. Also that
the disposition of troops would be under direction of the QPP but
that no direct action would be taken without consoltation and approval
of both the Quebec and Federal governments.
He also said that the situation required much more study as the
Mohawk position is very well fortified and the inhabitants were
well armed. It is not a position where you can just take a bulldozer
and knock it over.
We'll see what happens next week.
Roger
|
329.61 | | COVERT::COVERT | John R. Covert | Fri Aug 10 1990 18:22 | 6 |
| The Indians in Northern Vermont, bolstered by a successful suit allowing them
to fish without fishing licenses, are now suing for return of all of their
ancestral lands. This includes all of Vermont, all of New Hampshire, and
much of Northern Massachusetts...
/john
|
329.62 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Fri Aug 10 1990 18:31 | 1 |
| Sounds reasonable.
|
329.63 | One law for the well armed, another law for the very well armed | RTL::HINXMAN | Sufficient unto the day | Fri Aug 10 1990 22:33 | 4 |
| After all the white man gained control of the area by force of arms,
which is the same right by which Iraq today holds Kuwait.
Tony
|
329.64 | Just some UPdates in the NEWS | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | What d'U know that we don know? | Sat Aug 11 1990 01:43 | 22 |
|
.61 must be talking about the Abenakis under a leader named
Homer St.Francis.
A Chief at the Oka settlement in a recent M/Gazette article claimed
that he has been assaulted and intimidated by armed Mohawk Warriors
who he claims are NOT the legitimate representatives of the Mohawk
Nation/Society.
An editorial in a Gazette article referred to the Mohawk Warriors
(mind you not the Mohawk Nation) as a "band of thugs.. who are
terrorizing everybody including their own people.."
About 27 of the so-called Mohawk Warriors manning the blockades in
Oka, Quebec are said to be wanted in the State of New York for
various criminal acts according to a police chief from New York.
Meanwhile the disputed land has been sold to the Federal Govt. so
that it could be given back to the Mohawk Nation as soon as the
blockades are removed.
FaZari.
|
329.65 | | KAOFS::S_BROOK | It's time for a summertime dream | Sat Aug 11 1990 04:04 | 3 |
| It was reported that most of the natives on the reservation at Oka
have upwards of 15 firearms per household! That's probably more
fire-arms per person than the Canadian army!
|
329.66 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Mon Aug 20 1990 16:36 | 13 |
329.67 | | TRCO01::FINNEY | Keep cool, but do not freeze | Mon Aug 20 1990 17:45 | 25 |
| How much do you think the land stolen from the First Peoples costs
? (Not counting, of course, treaty lands, which were freely bargained
for, and which same treaties are almost worthless considering the
number of times that they have been violated by the white man, who,
by the way, also created the laws that are used to "resolve" disputes,
and rebuff those natives who sought and seek redress).
How many centuries worth of welfare & unemployment cheques do *you*
think would be sufficient recompense for such treatment.
There are efforts underway to bring to the World Court charges that
the occupation of Canada by the current & all previous Canadian
govt's is illegal according some agreement document that existed in England
in the last century *prior* to the BNA Act and which has neither
been negated nor revoked. I'm hazy on this, but I _think_ it's related
to some mutual defence pact between Natives & the Brits against
the Americans (well before the Fenians, I think). These efforts
at the world court have been going for the last year or so.
Won't it be pleasant to wake up some day and find that you are a
member of an "occupying" force ?
Maybe it would be better to just finally wake up some day.
Scooter
|
329.68 | My feelings also | MTHOOD::BIGCRANEJO | | Mon Aug 20 1990 20:10 | 6 |
|
Well said, And it's not all Native Americans on the reservation
that are on welfare, etc. And if you counted how many are and to
the number are not Native's is probably less than you think.
Bigcrane
|
329.69 | What are they saying here..? | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | What d'U know that we don know? | Tue Aug 21 1990 04:11 | 15 |
| From the front page of a BTO Free Press newspaper.
SPOTLIGHT, AP
[ The Canadian goverment's decision to negotiate with Mohawks who have
blocked a bridge into Montreal in a land dispute has sparked fears
that the move sets a dangerous precedent. Other Indian groups are
closely watching the dispute, and analysts are concerned that if the
armed Mohawks win concessions, there will be rapid spread of violence
to press land claims. Page 3A for.. ] Monday Aug.20th Jeffery Ulbrich.
"Any outcome at Oka short of a bloodbath will send a powerful message
to native people across Canada whose grievances far outweigh those at
Kanesatake." Desmond Morton, Univ. of Toronto historian.
Question: Are these statements/analysis very accurate or not ?
|
329.70 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Tue Aug 21 1990 12:51 | 5 |
| Yes.
To be quite frank, I wish the governments would fix all this up so
I wouldn't have to listen to it on the news over and over and over and
over and over and over and over and over and over...............
|
329.71 | Stick your fingers in your ears then | KAOM25::RUSHTON | Unscathed by inspired lunacy | Tue Aug 21 1990 14:28 | 1 |
| ...don't you have an 'on/off' switch on your Victrola, Glenn?
|
329.72 | A mystery | VAOU02::HALLIDAY | Professional bad influence | Tue Aug 21 1990 16:07 | 5 |
| What mystifies me is why the police threaten to bash white peoples'
skulls in when they block roads, but they just sit and watch when
Indians do.
...laura
|
329.73 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Tue Aug 21 1990 18:36 | 5 |
| That shouldn't be such a mystery, the Indians have got automatic
weapons and intercontinental ballistic tomahawks. (ICBT)
General Custard
|
329.74 | | RTL::HINXMAN | Sufficient unto the day | Tue Aug 21 1990 19:15 | 7 |
| re .72
I thought it was the mysterious desire of the Surete de Quebec to
bash heads of all colours that had got the situation to its present
mess.
Tony
|
329.75 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Wed Aug 22 1990 19:22 | 15 |
329.76 | The Vandals & Vikings could claim...(what) ? | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | What d'U know that we don know? | Wed Aug 22 1990 20:17 | 12 |
| Re.75
Excellent point!
..otherwise the Monguls could claim a large chunk of Asia -
Mandelas's people could claim the whole of R.S.A and drive
the anglos, dutch, euro-caucasians..out of Pretoria -
The Babylonians could re-claim Jerusalem -
The Alexandrian Greeks could claim Saddam's Iraq (formerly Mesopotamia)-
The Egyptians could claim Lebanon, Syria, Jordan ...
The Moors (of Morocco) could re-claim most of Spain and parts of France...
[ END-Less...]
FaZari.
|
329.77 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Wed Aug 22 1990 21:28 | 3 |
| Adam and Eve could claim the 'ole lot they could!
Give it back to God, it's His anyway.
|
329.78 | Slight Correction. | CRATE::ROWELL | Searching for an angel in white | Thu Aug 23 1990 11:22 | 9 |
| re .76
> Mandelas's people could claim the whole of R.S.A and drive
Except that Mandelas' people are mainly Immigrants who moved there
for the jobs. It would have to be Chief Boutalsi's (sp) people (Zulus)
claiming the land back.
Wayne.
|
329.79 | After slight corrections we return to Topic 329 | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | What do U know that we don know? | Fri Aug 24 1990 03:15 | 10 |
| Re. 78 by CRATE::ROWELL
-<Slight correction...should be Buthelezi...
BTW: Botha, John Voorster.. will strongly disagree with you.
As far as they are concerned the land was empty when they
arrived from Holland, England, Belgium..so that will make
your slight correction irrelevant. But thanks anyway.
FaZari.
|
329.80 | Not just in Oka, but in B.C. and other provinces ? | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | What do U know that we don know? | Fri Aug 24 1990 03:17 | 21 |
| SETON PORTAGE, B.C.
On Tuesday (Aug. 21st 1990) the RCMP arrested about 40 Indians blocking
a rail line for defying a court injunction that ordered them to end
their action.
The Indians, who offered little resistance, had asked Inspector Jack
Latimer to charge the British Columbia government with theft of their
land.
They set up the blockade Friday becuase they were unhappy with the
provincial government's response to their land-claims proposals.
Latimer warned the Indians thru' a bullhorn: "In my opinion you have
violated an injunction are are committing an offense of Section 127 of
the Criminal Code of Canada."
The section covers disobeying court orders and lays out possible
penalties. He then motioned 60 officers to start arresting people
blocking the BC Rail Line.
|
329.81 | Canadian forces replacing | CLOSUS::HOE | Dad, is S'dam one of the bad words? | Fri Aug 24 1990 14:52 | 5 |
| This morning AP report on the local paper that Canadian Forces
moved armored cars are in position at the barriers with the
Mohawk Warriors in Oka. Any more developments?
calvin
|
329.82 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Fri Aug 24 1990 15:22 | 8 |
| Yes, The Mohawks had been getting supplies by crossing the bridge they
were blocking and by boat in Dorval, VERY angry people blocked all
those accesses so now the Mohawks get a taste of their own medicine.
Meanwhile the army moved within a few meters of the barricades in Oka.
Jean
|
329.83 | More development, indeed | DNEAST::LUU_VUONG | | Fri Aug 24 1990 18:07 | 57 |
329.84 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Sun Aug 26 1990 02:57 | 20 |
| Everyone seems to think that the natives are better at handling
"natural resources" because they have been doing it for eons, this is
not quite true, they have "evolved" too and they are just as greedy for
money and power as we all are, sometimes they are right (Oka) and
sometimes they are wrong (many salmon rivers have been emptied by their
nets {they have the right to fish like that}).
They did OK when they were fewer people, just as the whites did and
like the blacks did, the only guilt that anyone can have is to be alive
in this century and on this overpopulated earth. It is becoming
increasingly hard to cope with the population explosion and conflicts
like this one can only increase in number as the years pass. Only
trough understanding can we overcome these problems, this means
individual rights WILL give way to collective rights. So a handfull of
individuals, be they "indians", blacks or whites can not moraly hold
thousands of citizens hostage for any lenght of time and still get my
sympathy.
Jean
|
329.85 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | He who laughs best | Mon Aug 27 1990 11:17 | 10 |
| Oh ya?
Well, what about the platypus?
I don't know why I said that, it just seemed like the right thing
to do......
;-)
|
329.86 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Mon Aug 27 1990 15:34 | 8 |
329.87 | His Omnipotence, Slartibartfast | KAOM25::RUSHTON | Unscathed by inspired lunacy | Mon Aug 27 1990 15:59 | 6 |
| It's a 'platypus', Jean NOT a 'platybus'. One is flattened road-kill,
the other is a flattened public transit vehicle.
Your pedantic grammarianness
Patsy
|
329.88 | Barricades come down today | KAOA11::LAPLANTE | | Tue Aug 28 1990 11:46 | 16 |
|
The army have been ordered to remove the roadblocks at the Mercier
bridge. The Quebec government has asked for the action because the
Mohawks have not been negotiating in good faith, according to the
government.
Women and children have been leaving the Kanewake reserve en masse.
The Chief of Defence Staff has stated that he hopes the natives
do not resist but if his troops are fired upon they will respond.
Also, all military personnel are 'peace officers' and if there is
any resistance they will make arrests.
It is expected that they will proceed with their orders today.
Roger
|
329.89 | | TRCO01::FINNEY | Keep cool, but do not freeze | Wed Aug 29 1990 14:42 | 55 |
| ... and according to some 2 dozen international observers, it is
and was the two governments that have been not bargaining in good
faith, abusing civil and human rights, etc.
Way to go Canada !
Jean, et al: Your wishes are about to come true - them pesky
Indians are about to be put in their places - maybe six feet under.
Riddle me this : How many dead people will be enough to compensate
for your "inconvenience" in not using a bridge that has been
practically unusable for the last few years anyway ? lessee ...
one little, two little, three little dead indians ? More ?
A dozen, two ? a few dead Vandoos too ? Maybe the army should
replace the smoke cannisters in their 105 mm howitzers with HE and
just wipe the whole lot of out. THAT'LL teach'em to muck with your
bridge.
Welcome to Rumania.
The whole lot of you make me sick to my stomach.
"Native Land Claims" is a misnomer. The Native assertions are for
things that according to treaties THEY NEVER GAVE UP.
Treaties are agreements, contracts. You do this and I'll do that.
If you signed an employment agreement with Digital, and they then
moved you OUT of your home (mortgage paid off), set you up in a
condo somewhere, would you be upset ? Where in your employment
agreement do you agree to that ?
Very many Canadians I've spoken with these past days have said,"
I always thought the Indians got everything they asked for."
Wrong. For decades the Native Peoples have asked, "respect our
treaties". The response has been oh, here, take this take that,
here's money, free schools ? - here have that to.
But never, ever would the Great Canadian Government live up to
its side of the agreement. The VERY closest they have ever come
is "oh yeah, we'll let you USE it, exclusively, and in some
cases we will let you CONTROL it, but no, you can NEVER OWN it
again."
Except one thing - nobody ever gave it to the Great Canadian Government.
They also didn't win it by force of arms - yet.
That is what the Great Canadian Government is trying to do right
now, after all these years. Win the land by force of arms.
Get a life of your own, the whole lot of you. Oka will not be the
end of anything - just the beginning.
Scooter
|
329.90 | let's give everyone an AK47! | TROA02::MSCHNEIDER | vi.... the editor from hell! | Wed Aug 29 1990 18:24 | 23 |
| Pardon me .... when did it suddenly become fashionable to allow
persons (whatever their cause and justness of their cause) to carry
automatic weapons, disguise themselves so they cannot be recognized,
build barricades that may be rigged with explosives, and generally
break every law that WOULD put you and I in a federal prison.
I DO have sympathy for the native cause. Blockades have been used
in other situations to draw attention to cause, but not with automatic
weapons backing up their demands. So quite frankly, my sympathy
has been dwindling and yes IT IS TIME to restore law and order.
I do NOT have sympathy with causes that have to do with the right
to flout national laws regarding gambling, tobacco importation etc.
I have to live by these laws, so they should have to as well. The
concept of a sovereign nation with a nation is a CROCK unless we
are willing to carve Canada into a bunch of countries (seems many
Premiers have the same idea anyway!).
I DO NOT relish the thought of natives or soldiers being killed.
All this talk about massacres and bloodshed happily overlooks the
point the Army commanders have made, there will be no shooting unless
shot at. If the weapons are laid down, nobody gets killed. They've
got public attention, but enough is enough!
|
329.91 | Mob Rule | OTOU01::BUCKLAND | Quality is not a problem | Wed Aug 29 1990 19:37 | 9 |
| I was disgusted to see the antics of the mob attacking the convoy of
people leaving the reservation. And the actions of the police in not
preventing it and arresting those responsible.
This mob had not been attacked by anyone so it was not self defence, it
was just revenge, pure and simple, for having been inconvenienced.
When I chose to live in Canada I thought that this was a non-violent
country. Seems that I was mistaken.
|
329.92 | not unexpected | TROA02::MSCHNEIDER | vi.... the editor from hell! | Wed Aug 29 1990 20:25 | 8 |
| Yes it was disgusting ... yet it is easy to look from afar and cast
our own stones. Perhaps if your commute to work had been extended
by 3-4 hours per day for the last month or so, your temper might
also be frayed.
Your still right though, the police SHOULD have prevented this from
happening, just as they should have prevented barricades backed
by armed warriors.
|
329.93 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Wed Aug 29 1990 20:31 | 1 |
| so what?!?!?
|
329.94 | Maybe its an incentive (minus rifles) | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Wed Aug 29 1990 21:11 | 14 |
|
Its about time someone started standing up to the Canadian/any
provincial government.
If more of us in the armchair lobbiest group (I count myself
in on this) were to get off our fat asses and demonstrate
against some of the unfair government practices in this
country and the one South of our border, a hell of a lot more
might get done and faster.
Yeah I'm talking about the environment, the poor, taxation
inequity.....and on and on and on and on....
Charlie_stoicly_glued_to_his_office_chair
|
329.95 | Thats the 1st I heard of this! | KAOFS::RODERMOND | | Thu Aug 30 1990 02:21 | 25 |
| <<< Note 329.89 by TRCO01::FINNEY "Keep cool, but do not freeze" >>>
>
> "Native Land Claims" is a misnomer. The Native assertions are for
> things that according to treaties THEY NEVER GAVE UP.
> Treaties are agreements, contracts. You do this and I'll do that.
>
Scooter! I have been in Canada 27 years, all my school here etc...follow all
the news, just watched George Erasmus on TV, followed it from the beginning,
read all about Louis Reil etc etc....and this is NEWS.
If you are right than I am totally on the side of the Indians. But how come
this is not public knowledge (not common anyway!)? Did YOU learn this in
school? Certainly they never taught this to me in Alberta schools!
I would like to hear more about this....not from doubting you Scooter or
anything like this. But is this is true than why is this not used to sway
general public knowledge?
Fred
|
329.96 | Peace in Chateauguay | KAOA01::LAPLANTE | | Thu Aug 30 1990 12:05 | 10 |
|
Some ray of hope.
The barricades at the Mercier bridge are being dismantled peacefully
and jointly by Mohawks and the army.
Negotiations are continuing at Oka and hopefully a similar result
will come of them.
Roger
|
329.97 | | KAOA01::LAPLANTE | | Thu Aug 30 1990 12:13 | 23 |
|
I sympathize with the Mohawks and many other of our Native People
who have been mistreated and lied to over the years. We should be
doing things to make our governments realize that it is time to
deal fairly with these people and to resolve their legitimate claims.
However, I also believe that the stance taken by the Mohawks at
Oka of armed disobedience to the law is wrong and must be stopped.
This is not simply breaking a weapons law, this is insurrection
and the government is right in using the military to put it down,
using whatever force is necessary.
Saying that, I also do not believe that the majority of Mohawks
are in agreement with the Warriors who are manning the barricades.
If they were given a chance to vote on the proposals made to them,
I am sure the barricades would be down by now; but that the
negotiations would be ongoing. They wouldn't be totally resolved.
Perhaps from this will come a better appreciation by the Canadian
people of the problems between the Natives and the governments with
which they are dealing. I hope so.
Roger
|
329.98 | | TRCO01::FINNEY | Keep cool, but do not freeze | Thu Aug 30 1990 13:04 | 15 |
| Disobediance of the law ? Whose ?
In the U.S. there are laws that don't exist in Canada. Should you,
as a Canadian be arrest, villified, or have rocks thrown at you
IN Canada for doing something IN Canada that is not illegal IN Canada
but is illegal IN the U.S. ??
re: a few back about never hearing about native treaty violations.
Of course its new to you, its a reflection of the huge problem in
Canada wrt the First Peoples. The media is your only real source
of info, and unless something dramatic happens, as at Oka, nothing
was reported.
Scooter
|
329.99 | Where's PET when we need him? | SHIRE::FINEUC1 | | Thu Aug 30 1990 15:22 | 23 |
| re .97
>> However, I also believe that the stance taken by the Mohawks at
>> Oka of armed disobedience to the law is wrong and must be stopped.
>> This is not simply breaking a weapons law, this is insurrection
>> and the government is right in using the military to put it down,
>> using whatever force is necessary.
Roger,
The last line is the same that Trudeau used in his famous "Bleeding Hearts"
speech in 1970, when the pressure was enormous during the October crisis.
Too bad he's not been around lately. Where is the Prime Minister? Fishing
with Bush.
Great. French TV showed us those two things one after the other last night.
While I sympathize with the sensitivity of the issue, no one has the right,
as you say, to take the law into their hands like that.
rick ellis
|
329.100 | Did he throw him back, D'ya think ? | CRATE::ROWELL | Searching for an angel in white | Thu Aug 30 1990 15:41 | 8 |
| > Too bad he's not been around lately. Where is the Prime Minister? Fishing
> with Bush.
The report I heard, was that he was Fishing *FOR* Bush, and caught one
too ! ;-) ;-)
Wayne
|
329.101 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Fri Aug 31 1990 14:49 | 6 |
| Re -.1
I think it's legal in the US to stuff a president ;-)
Jean
|
329.102 | The Ottawa vacuum | VAOU02::HALLIDAY | Professional bad influence | Fri Aug 31 1990 23:25 | 5 |
| I heard a good quote the other day about the situation - about how it's
so easy for such a situation to get totally out of hand when there is
no leadership coming from Ottawa.
...laura
|
329.103 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Tue Sep 04 1990 00:59 | 22 |
| Scooter, I for one suffer no inconvenience from either blockage, in
fact since I live in the city, the more people stuck outside, the
better it is for me. But I think that 150,000 people on the south
shore may indeed suffer from all this, and possibly enough to fray
their tempers a little. Also there are thugs in all mobs as seen
recently in Chateaugay, in Ville la Salle and at a soccer match in
England (I think it was there).
Latest update: The army moved in this morning after some members of
the Mohawks asked them to, this was sparked by Warriors having beaten
up (with baseball bats) members of their tribe who had spoken up against
them (the warriors) having wrecked and stolen the contens from freinds
of the Mohawks's homes.
Right now thare are about 20 warriors, a few journalists and some women
and children (Mohawks) confined to an area 800 by 200 meters in
Kanesatake.
Jean
Grand Canal (just tought I might slip this in somewhere)
|
329.104 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Tue Sep 04 1990 15:42 | 12 |
| The police were able to intercept some communication between the
warriors in Oka (Kanesatake) and the long house in Kanawake, what is
most interesting is that all those communications were in english, now
if I was a Mohawk I would tend to use my own language to communicate
with members of my tribe, especially to keep information from my
ennemies, this is assuming that some of those natives still do speak
"Mohawk"!
Lose the language, and the culture goes away too.
Jean
|
329.105 | No hablo Mohawk. | VAOU02::HALLIDAY | Professional bad influence | Tue Sep 04 1990 16:30 | 3 |
| That *is* interesting...I noticed it too. You would think that people
as (apparently) passionately nationalistic as the Warriors would at
least use their ancestral language.
|
329.106 | language again, give it a rest | KAORSC::R_VIERICH | | Tue Sep 04 1990 17:54 | 14 |
| .104> "If I was a Mohawk I would tend to use my own language to
communicate"
Well Jean, That sounds pretty hypocritical coming from a Quebecker.
I guess that the Indians should consider themselves lucky that they
were not shot at for speaking English.
Maybe the Indians feel their culture is so strong and diverse that they
do not consider it taboo to speak English.
Ralf
(feeling sorry for the Indians)
|
329.107 | A taste of "our" own medicine we've been dispensing? | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | Ahem,Keine freien proben! | Tue Sep 04 1990 18:45 | 14 |
| Re.106 by KAORSC::R_VIERICH
>> Ralf ( feeling sorry for the Indians)
Are you sure the above statement is not *Condescending ?
There is a difference between being sympathetic and being *Empathetic.
If you "feel sorry for them" then it appears you are not empathetic so
that will neutralize your supposed concerns for "the Indians.."
Re. 104 & 105 Are you two feeling like ganging-up and bashing some
Mohawks(who happen to be fellow Canadians) this morning ?
FaZari.
|
329.108 | ???? | KAOFS::R_CHARLEBOIS | I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK ... | Tue Sep 04 1990 20:28 | 10 |
329.109 | mumble muddle mombo | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Wed Sep 05 1990 17:04 | 8 |
| re: <<< Note 329.107 by BTOVT::BOATENG_K "Ahem,Keine freien proben!" >>>
-< A taste of "our" own medicine we've been dispensing? >-
Hey Roget, give us a break. I think we all understood
what Ralph said, why do you have to cloud the issue.
Charlie
|
329.110 | Ralph/POLAR::/Roget who ? | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | Antagonize with us OR pro-active? | Wed Sep 05 1990 19:19 | 2 |
| The issue is as clear as mumble, muddle, driveling...
Where have you been ?
|
329.111 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Wed Sep 05 1990 20:16 | 29 |
329.112 | The Circle Turns | OTOU01::BUCKLAND | Quality is not a problem | Thu Sep 06 1990 12:42 | 17 |
329.113 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Thu Sep 06 1990 13:44 | 29 |
329.114 | Not really! | KAOFS::R_CHARLEBOIS | I'm a lumberjack and I'm OK ... | Thu Sep 06 1990 16:56 | 14 |
329.115 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Thu Sep 06 1990 17:22 | 11 |
| But what pray tell were the origins of those "cultures" you speak of?
In my travels across Canada I have come across regionalisms, but the
uniting factor was always the language, this is why you or your peers
feel "at home" wether you are in Vancouver or St-Johns, Toronto or Los
Angeles. You may be a Canadian but you still watch Cheers and Roseanne
(the ratings are there to prove that) just like the United Staters.
But this getting far from the subject.
Jean
|
329.116 | | KAOFS::R_CHARLEBOIS | Mutant Ninja Soft. Supp. Spec. from Hell | Thu Sep 06 1990 18:26 | 18 |
329.117 | | KAOFS::WATTERS | | Thu Sep 06 1990 19:03 | 21 |
| Real, you don't seem to understand, do you? The Indians use that
culture issue for cash, it's as simple as that. Any excuse is good
enough for them since all they want is the land, so they can turn
around and sell it back to us (just like they're doing w/ booze and
cigs). Sadaem Husseim(sp?) is using the Holy War excuse to get
what he really wants; oil (ie. cash). I believe that what the
Mohawks/Warriors did on July11th was an 11th hour decision, a
desperate decision and it worked, they got the media attention
they rightfully deserved. Problem is, they've went too far and
the ones that are still standing behing the barricades must pay.
The only way out of this for good would be to make the Amerindians
become Canadians so they can stop leaching on the rest of us.
Therefore the Gov't should negociate a deal w/ them to include
them in Canada w/ certain conditions (make them pay taxes, give
them some land and special rights, etc...)
Anyways, it's too bad that they had to do this to wake up our
Gov't.
A biaised opinion :*)
Andy
|
329.118 | Back to Topic 329. | BTOVT::BOATENG_K | Antagonize with us OR pro-active? | Thu Sep 06 1990 19:14 | 14 |
| Re. >> The original topic
CKBY (FM 106) Ottawa, reported on the 12.00 (EST) newsbreak that
there was an altercation between a Canadian Forces soldier and a
Mohawk Warrior in Oka, this morning.
During the altercation the Canadian soldier
was shoved into barbed wire and was slightly injured.
A Montreal Gazette article in today's issue said that the Mercier
Bridge is expected to be opened for normal traffic this morning at
6.20 am.
FaZari.
|
329.119 | | KAOFS::R_CHARLEBOIS | Mutant Ninja Soft. Supp. Spec. from Hell | Thu Sep 06 1990 19:30 | 10 |
329.120 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Thu Sep 06 1990 19:51 | 7 |
| Grand Canal
I think you're onto to something here Jean....
;-)
|
329.121 | I get a strong MAFIA smell from this. | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Fri Sep 07 1990 13:18 | 17 |
329.122 | IMO...of course | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Fri Sep 07 1990 18:16 | 83 |
329.123 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Fri Sep 07 1990 20:23 | 18 |
| First I like to think that people who work for Digital are not morons
and as such do NOT watch shows as insipid as Roseanne (now I have
insulted the Roseanne watchers) I do not read "Allo Police" and I don't
think you read the national enquirer, but someone must do these things
otherwise they would not be on the supermarket shelves and the Roseanne
would not be paid zillions per year to "entertain".
Culture I'll get back to later.
As for "lasagna", his father IS a Mohawk (I don't make these things up,
I just relay the latest news to you noters) and his mother is of
Italian descent, thus the nick-name. His father does live in
Kanesatake and "lasagna" is a member of a motorcycle gang in Aquasasne
(sp??? or St-Regis). He was wanted by the police before this thing
started.
Jean
|
329.125 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Thu Sep 13 1990 15:47 | 4 |
| Did they do the fire dance or the Nobel dance?
Jean
|
329.127 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Fri Sep 14 1990 13:26 | 27 |
329.128 | Well, all I can say to that is...... | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Fri Sep 14 1990 17:31 | 3 |
|
Here Here!!!!
|
329.129 | I don't hear you | 45830::REEVE | Life is like a mountain railway | Tue Sep 18 1990 10:13 | 10 |
| >================================================================================
>Note 329.128 WAR, the indians are on the war path! 128 of 128
>POLAR::RICHARDSON "Help save the Nolton Nash Pine!" 3 lines 14-SEP-1990 13:31
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> -< Well, all I can say to that is...... >-
> Here Here!!!!
Where? Where?
Tim :*)
|
329.130 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Tue Sep 18 1990 16:00 | 11 |
329.131 | | RTL::HINXMAN | In danger of the mego effect | Tue Sep 18 1990 18:17 | 7 |
| Jean,
Isn't the problem that Quebec has the same problem recognizing the
Iroquois as a separate and distinct society as Canada has recognizing
Quebec as a separate and distinct society :-) ?
Tony
|
329.132 | Yea? Nay.. it's | OLDJON::WATSON | Some like it not | Tue Sep 18 1990 19:39 | 1 |
329.133 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Tue Sep 18 1990 19:48 | 8 |
329.134 | | KAOFS::M_COTE | Now I'm even more nasty | Wed Sep 19 1990 00:00 | 27 |
329.135 | Just another poor SOB's opinion | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Wed Sep 19 1990 13:02 | 57 |
329.136 | Go ARMY GO!!! | KAOFS::WATTERS | | Wed Sep 19 1990 13:41 | 6 |
| Anybody watch the News coming out of Chateauguay/Kanawake last
night? THESE Indians were acting like SAVAGES, somewhat like
when the Chateauguay residents threw rocks at Indian driven
cars a month ago, but this time it was a lot worst. LOT WORST.
Andy
|
329.137 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Wed Sep 19 1990 14:00 | 36 |
329.138 | | MURP::HINXMAN | In danger of the mego effect | Wed Sep 19 1990 14:37 | 9 |
| re .137
> ALL governements have tried the same way to get rid of them, I guess
I hadn't realized that. I thought it was only the U.S. who had
addressed the problem of indigenous populations by selling them
smallpox-infected blankets.
Tony
|
329.139 | isn't this fun | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Wed Sep 19 1990 16:39 | 48 |
329.140 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Wed Sep 19 1990 17:09 | 14 |
329.141 | | TRCO01::FINNEY | Keep cool, but do not freeze | Fri Sep 21 1990 13:49 | 57 |
| Wow ! The hypocrisy and hysteria is hitting even this notes file !
Lessee - The Canadian ARMY, armed with M-16 assault rifles and M-60
Machine Guns enters Mohawk territory, puts up _razor_ wire, and
the Mohawks fight back with fists and stones. The ARMY fires several
_dozen_ rounds into the air (anyone ever wonder where those rounds
came down ? In a school yard in Lasalle ? The side of a hospital on
Montreal Island ?) ...
... and lo and behold, its the Mohawks that you accuse of being
_savages_ !
... and equating unarmed Mohawk men and women of all ages
confronting the armed soldiers with the healthy and strong men who
stoned the women, children and old people on the Mercier bridge -
well, this is rather revealing, isn't it ?
wrt government assitance. That is a rather subtle distortion. You see,
part of the Native's beef with the Cdn gov't is this business of Yearly
Allotments. When a treaty deal _is_ worked out, the Cdn gov't agrees
to recognize that certain lands are the territory of one Native Nation
or the other, and recognizes that other territory, already settled and
"developed" (ie. irreversibly mutilated by buildings and roads) and so
will be compensated for by money, they deem that the money will be paid
through yearly budget allotments the the Dept. of Indian Affairs. Well,
the white bureaucrats of DIA "know" that Natives can't handle money,
so they allocate it in programs - so much for schools, so much for
hospitals, assistance etc.
And at the end of this process, uninformed whites (most of whom don't
want to be informed ) see this as social assistance or welfare money.
It isn't. It is the government's way of 'controlling' the Natives
even during those rare moments when they concede that the Natives
have been screwed by the white man.
For those that are still having a hard time understanding this -
lets say you get hit by a drunke driver and crippled - you sue and the
other guy offers to settle out of court - a large settlement. The lawyers
of the driver then tell you, "we will only pay you by paying for actual
needs the rest of your life. Once a year you present us with a
projection of your needs for the next year - how much for food, how
much for rent, how much for tuition for you children, etc."
You, not having enough money to sue again,and having spent years in court
already, agree.
This is a classic gov't tactic because it does two important things -
it creates a dependency on the gov't for income ( pulling the natives
into the white man's econmic structure ) and secondly, allowing the
gov't to control the natives by forcing them to give up administration
of their own lives to the gov't - in a rather subtle way.
Scooter
|
329.142 | | TRCO01::FINNEY | Keep cool, but do not freeze | Fri Sep 21 1990 14:04 | 42 |
329.143 | | TRCO01::FINNEY | Keep cool, but do not freeze | Fri Sep 21 1990 14:16 | 24 |
| >>>I do not agree with this one either. If they don't want pay
taxes then they should should form their own government and
society. This meaning that they would not longer get federal
assistance. I think that they might start to see the merits
of a taxation system then.
<<<
Well, that's a start. Now, go out, call your MPP, MLA or whatever
provincial rep you have, call your MP, or write letter, write or call
the PMO and DIA, and pressure them to do just that.
The bit about the assistance, I've explained earlier. If you don't
want to compensate the Natives for their land, give it back. If it is
too difficult ot painful (ie. on those that live there ) to give back
the land, pay for it. We are Not talking about ALL of the land, just
the land which, by treaty, the Canadian gov't has itself recognised as
being Native Territory, but went ahead and used and developed anyway,
simply because the Natives had no way of stopping them.
But rid yourself of this rascist and patronizing notion that only
Canada knows how to "look after" the Native Nations.
Scooter
|
329.144 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Fri Sep 21 1990 21:55 | 7 |
| What's wrong with trading all the lands owned by the natives with
southern Ontario, it's got nice houses, big buildings all kinds of cars
and lots of people who will become their slaves and don't forget, the
GRAND CANAL runs right by too.
Jean
|
329.145 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Sun Sep 23 1990 20:55 | 9 |
| Oui Oui!! Le Canal Grand!
Let the Grand Canal bring this bitter dispute to an end!
We'll get all of the Southern Ontario slaves to work all the locks!
They'll do it in several combinations! It will unify this country and
hopefully restore the 'title' to this great conference!
Glenn
|
329.146 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Sun Sep 23 1990 20:56 | 5 |
| This is the 146th reply to this note.
LOOK OUT SARNIA!!
|
329.147 | This is getting philosophical, ain't it? | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Mon Sep 24 1990 03:08 | 5 |
| Does a reply having the word "Sarnia" count towards the total of
replies for the Sarnia note?
Jean
|
329.148 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Mon Sep 24 1990 21:32 | 8 |
| If I were the Sarnia topic, I'd be nervous!
.148
|
329.150 | Isn't that a BIT ridiculous?? | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Mon Sep 24 1990 22:10 | 10 |
| Oh yeah?!?!?!
Well..
1001101101100110101010101010101011010100011101011010101 !!!!!!!
Glenn
|
329.151 | Jesse the Mohawk | KAOFS::WATTERS | | Tue Sep 25 1990 15:08 | 12 |
| Did any of you see Jesse Jackson make an ass of himself at Oka
yesterday? Jesse is now a 'reporter' w/ his own show and came
to Mtl to do a spoof on the Oka War. The Army and/or SQ wouldn't
let him in thru the barricades. Imagine Jesse's face when they wouldn't
let him to talk AmerIndians but just last week he got to talk to
Husseim. Anyways, things went from bad to worst when he decided to
have a 'press conference' in front of the barricades, Jesse mentionned
that 2 people got killed at Oka. A reporter quickly asked who were
the 2 (there was only 1). Jesse couldn't answer and just kept
rambling....
Andy
|
329.152 | Jesse is a BIT stupid | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Tue Sep 25 1990 17:22 | 12 |
| If it's bloodshed that he came to stop, then why doesn't he go back to
Washington D.C. where the murder rate is eclipsing that of Detroit?
Jesse Jackson in an opportunist extraordinaire!
If you can hear me Jesse...
1010101000101010101010101010101010101000010110101001 !!!!!!
|
329.153 | Maybe there was 2. | KAOFS::M_MORIN | | Wed Sep 26 1990 15:38 | 8 |
| re .151
Andy,
I think that Jesse reffered an old mohawk (over 100 years old) who
supposidely died as a result stress due to all the events that happened.
M.
|
329.154 | Warriors go to Camp Farnham | KAOFS::WATTERS | | Thu Sep 27 1990 15:22 | 5 |
| The ordeal in Oka is all over, the assholes came out like a bunch
of SAVAGES and the Mohawks in Kanawake did the same later on.
Lock 'em up and THIS TIME let's hope the Gov't learned a lesson.
Andy
|
329.155 | Hey cowboy! How many injuns you kill today?! | KAOM25::RUSHTON | Unscathed by inspired lunacy | Thu Sep 27 1990 15:33 | 5 |
| <<The ordeal in Oka is all over, the assholes came out like a bunch
<<of SAVAGES and the Mohawks in Kanawake did the same later on.
<<Lock 'em up and THIS TIME let's hope the Gov't learned a lesson.
Suffering from malignant stupidity are you??
|
329.156 | UNDERSTAND??? | KAOFS::WATTERS | | Thu Sep 27 1990 15:48 | 9 |
| Hey bud,
This has nothing to do w/ them being indians. The way they
acted sometimes during this whole ordeal was unbelievable. It
reminded us of the Chateauguay residents throwing rocks at
Mohawk cars last month (they too were SAVAGES).
Happy Duke?
Andy
|
329.157 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Thu Sep 27 1990 15:56 | 12 |
| Hey maybe Jesse's presence WAS good after all!
I admire the Mohawks, we only managed to draw the october crisis (1970)
for 59 days, they on the other hand made it to 77 days, WOW like awsome
man.
But seriously, we should invite the reverend Jesse Jackson (any
relation to Michael??) to fathom the depths of the GRAND CANAL after
doing a few wirly twirlies on the banks.
Jean
|
329.158 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Thu Sep 27 1990 17:22 | 1 |
| 100011010010101001010100101010010100011101010 !!!!!
|
329.159 | Right on the button!!! | KAOFS::R_CHARLEBOIS | Mutant Ninja Soft. Supp. Spec. from Hell | Thu Sep 27 1990 18:35 | 10 |
| >><<The ordeal in Oka is all over, the assholes came out like a bunch
>><<of SAVAGES and the Mohawks in Kanawake did the same later on.
>><<Lock 'em up and THIS TIME let's hope the Gov't learned a lesson.
>Suffering from malignant stupidity are you??
He does, I sit next to him, and let me tell you ........
Real
|
329.160 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Thu Sep 27 1990 19:08 | 7 |
| 100101010101001 !!!
In other bits,
reply .160!
|
329.161 | so there! | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Thu Sep 27 1990 22:12 | 10 |
|
What does this one say -
01000110 00100110 01100011 01101011 00100000 01000000 01100110 01100110
;-)
Btw set your brain to 8s.
|
329.162 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Fri Sep 28 1990 14:53 | 7 |
| I can't think in octal....
so I think I'll place a HEX on you!!!
0123456789ABCDE
|
329.163 | escaping the Hex | TROA02::DEBOER | | Fri Sep 28 1990 15:33 | 4 |
| re .162
Don't you mean:
0000 0001 0010 0011 0100 0101 0110 0111 1000 1001 1010 1011 1100 1101
1110
|
329.164 | what you're not binarylingual | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Fri Sep 28 1990 15:58 | 14 |
| 01000110 00100110 01100011 01101011 00100000 01000000 01100110 01100110
Actually Glenn, that was binary (8s meaning eight bit space)
but since like it in the hex, I'll translate;
46 26 63 6B 20 40 66 66
:-)
BTW have a nice weekend all, the colors should be nice
(on the trees that is). Of course the coat eh will
not care, that stuff and digital is for wimps..:-P
|
329.165 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Fri Sep 28 1990 16:03 | 1 |
| .165!
|
329.166 | Counting made complete | POLAR::BAYNE | relax folks, enjoy the show | Fri Sep 28 1990 16:12 | 15 |
| re: .162
>>>I can't think in octal....
>>>so I think I'll place a HEX on you!!!
>>>0123456789ABCDE
Glenn where's the F, you? Did you forget it, like you forgot
the difference between octal and binary?
dog
|
329.167 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Fri Sep 28 1990 16:59 | 5 |
| I'm sorry, I forgot, and I do feel a BIT silly.
F
|
329.168 | Don't BYTE off more that you can chew | POLAR::BAYNE | relax folks, enjoy the show | Fri Sep 28 1990 17:40 | 4 |
| With the last reply, and the inclusion of the missing F, I can see that
you are NIBBLEing away at the answer.
dog
|
329.169 | YOU CAN'T CATCH US NOW | TROA09::DEBOER | | Fri Sep 28 1990 17:55 | 2 |
| YOU GUYS ARE JUST ADDING NOTES TO CATCH UP TO SARNIA.
|
329.170 | no we're not | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Fri Sep 28 1990 18:26 | 0 |
329.171 | Yes we are | POLAR::BAYNE | relax folks, enjoy the show | Fri Sep 28 1990 18:27 | 1 |
|
|
329.172 | No WE ARE NOT | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Fri Sep 28 1990 18:28 | 5 |
| re: <<< Note 329.171 by POLAR::BAYNE "relax folks, enjoy the show" >>>
-< Yes we are >-
|
329.173 | on or off | KAOFS::M_COTE | Now I'm even more nasty | Fri Sep 28 1990 18:39 | 1 |
|
|
329.174 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Fri Sep 28 1990 18:41 | 3 |
| What a ridiculous accusation!
.173
|
329.175 | Wrong note...again | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Fri Sep 28 1990 19:46 | 6 |
|
There you go again Mike, on or off should be in the
digital discussion.
Ya ken dres'm'up but ya kent take em out
|
329.176 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Fri Sep 28 1990 21:09 | 1 |
| This is getting a BIT out of hand!!!
|
329.177 | told ya | TROA09::DEBOER | | Mon Oct 01 1990 13:52 | 2 |
| See I knew what you where up to.
|
329.178 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Mon Oct 01 1990 15:18 | 5 |
| Thanks for the help!
.178
|
329.179 | Question | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Tue Oct 02 1990 12:42 | 8 |
| How do you recognise a baby warrior in a nursery?
He wears his diaper on his face.
Jean
P.S. I have a few more but they only make sense in French.
|
329.180 | save it | MTHOOD::BIGCRANEJO | | Wed Oct 03 1990 16:15 | 1 |
| save your jokes, stupid as they are.
|
329.181 | re 'joke' | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Wed Oct 03 1990 16:46 | 8 |
|
Jean,
Geez, from reading your anti-french rebukes in this conference
I wouldn't have pegged you as a bigot...
Charlie
|
329.182 | Good thing the Newfies aren't on the warpath! | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Wed Oct 03 1990 16:51 | 13 |
| Now, now, let's not do whirly-twirlies over this..
I don't do whirly-twirlies when someone makes fun of me, I just tell
them:
"You'll have to come out of your house one day!"
!!!!!
o o
^
o
|
329.183 | seriously (ie no WT's) | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Wed Oct 03 1990 18:18 | 12 |
|
I can appreciate a certain amount jibbing amongst the
members of a conference. However IMO there was no call
for that joke. Derogatory jokes belong in a jokes conference
not here.
And since I am still entitled to my own opinion....
Charlie
ps I don't think that Jean would have appreciated a French
joke in one of the language debate notes.
|
329.184 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Thu Oct 04 1990 15:31 | 17 |
| I have been treated to ALL kinds of jokes BECAUSE I am french and some
of them are quite funny. My feeling is that if you are not worth a
joke, you are not worth much, and if every person who ever made fun of
another one was labeled a bigot, we would all be united by that fact
alone!
This was told to me in St Johns (Newfoundland):
A pakistani (sp??) took his neighbor to court because one day he was
cleaning an area carpet by beating it as it was draped over his clothes
line, his neighbor said "what's wrong buddy, won't it fly?"
In court his defense was that he would be constantly suing just about
every one for making newfie jokes.
Case dismissed the judge said.
Jean
|
329.185 | Furthermore | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Fri Oct 05 1990 12:18 | 10 |
329.186 | Like I said before... | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Fri Oct 05 1990 12:33 | 5 |
|
...save it for the HUMOR notesfile.
Charlie
|
329.187 | Walk a mile in _their_ shoes | POLAR::BAYNE | relax folks, enjoy the show | Fri Oct 05 1990 12:53 | 7 |
| re:.185
>>>I didn't think the joke I made was at all derogatory
From your viewpoint perhaps it was not derogatory, however I would like
to know what a Mohawk Indian would have to say about the joke.
shawn
|
329.188 | | SIOG::EGRI | | Fri Oct 05 1990 14:24 | 8 |
| NOW CAN WE GET BACK TO SOMETHING RELEAVNT IN LIFE?
CAN ANYBODY TELL ME WHO SCORED FOR LES HABITANTS AGAINST THE SABRES
LAST NIGHT?
MERCI BIEN,
TED.
|
329.189 | Key bored broak | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Fri Oct 05 1990 16:48 | 9 |
|
GEE TED I DON'T KNOW. AND I ALSO DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT
HAS TO DO WITH THIS NOTE OR...
Why you feel inclined to type in capital letters.
Charlie
|
329.190 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Fri Oct 05 1990 17:57 | 2 |
| The reason why Ted is shouting is that he's typing all the way from
Dublin!
|
329.191 | Now that it's over | KAOFS::WATTERS | | Fri Oct 05 1990 19:02 | 8 |
| What's the Indian word for cane?
Kanawake (Canne-a-walker). It's french but it's still a good one.
As for the ones that feel these jokes are deragatory, get a life.
(...and you know who you are)
Andy
|
329.192 | | POLAR::RICHARDSON | Help save the Nolton Nash Pine! | Sat Oct 06 1990 19:44 | 1 |
| As far as I'm concerned, it's water under the bridge.........
|
329.193 | :-) | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Tue Oct 09 1990 15:33 | 9 |
|
Well Jean, I realize that we tend to be opponents most of
the time in this conference, but I feel truly sorry for
you now.
Andy Watters has taken your side....
Charlie
|
329.194 | :*)) | KAOFS::WATTERS | | Tue Oct 09 1990 16:02 | 6 |
| re -.1
Typical response. This must be the time when you take
a note and make it totally off-topic. You've done it so many
times.... :*)
Andy_who_was_just_fed_up
|
329.195 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Fri Oct 12 1990 01:44 | 7 |
| Andy, were you fed up with the situation or with you ex-buddy?
I'm glad to let you join in with me, comme je l'ai deja dit, plus on
est de fous, plus on rit.
Jean
|
329.196 | Fed up alright!!! | KAOFS::WATTERS | | Sun Oct 14 1990 21:50 | 4 |
| RE -.1
BOTH.
Andy
|
329.197 | Inquiring minds want to know! | KAOFS::R_CHARLEBOIS | Mutant Ninja Soft. Supp. Spec. from Hell | Tue Oct 16 1990 12:00 | 8 |
329.198 | | KAOFS::M_COTE | Now I'm even more nasty | Tue Oct 16 1990 15:32 | 5 |
329.199 | | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Tue Oct 16 1990 18:52 | 3 |
|
.199
|
329.200 | 200 | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Tue Oct 16 1990 18:56 | 7 |
329.201 | | KAORSC::R_CHARLEBOIS | Les chaussettes de l'Archi-Duchesse ... | Tue Oct 16 1990 19:17 | 5 |
| Sorry to have to correct you ... again ... but I had nothing to do what
so ever with the binary/octal/hexadecimal string of notes. Lets stick
to the facts shall we.
RC
|
329.202 | Dear Chief Woodchuck | KAOFS::WATTERS | | Tue Oct 16 1990 21:42 | 12 |
329.203 | A definetion and an end [probably not ;) | POLAR::LACAILLE | YFM-350 the real Ultimate Warrior | Wed Oct 17 1990 11:32 | 17 |
|
Well, we've done it! Take a look Glen, the divine moment
has been attained. Check out definition 1.
Whirly-Twirly (wur.lie' - ta.wur.lie') n. 1. Ambiguous, chaotic,
and viscious circle. 2. Sometimes used in reference to statements
made by the great statesman Korf [Korph] Barbunk. 3. A spicy
sausage originated from the Carp of Ontario region of Canada.
4. Almost anything else that comes to mind or not to mind.
Abbr. WT., wt. [<Dial. supurl. eh <Stark raving lunacy]
Removed with permission from the Boluvian Abridged Dictionary
and cookbook.
Charlie
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329.204 | STICK TO FACTS!!! | KAORSC::R_CHARLEBOIS | Les chaussettes de l'Archi-Duchesse ... | Wed Oct 17 1990 12:10 | 58 |
329.205 | theyrrrre baaaaack!!!!!!! | MQOFS::DESROSIERS | Lets procrastinate....tomorrow | Wed Oct 17 1990 12:21 | 12
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