Conference kaosws::canada

    The reason for this is that it's not a 'Forum'. You see, Montreal
    has a 'Forum' and it's not dry believe me, but Toronto has a 'Maple
    Leaf Gardens'. If Toronto had a 'Maple Leaf Forum', then people
    from across the country would gather there and engage in heated
    debates over the importance of the Maple Leaf as a national symbol
    and the effects of acid rain on the Maple Leaf, and not to mention
    what kind of rakes should be used on them in the fall.(What Saps!)
    This wouldn't be of much use but if you had just a plain old 'Toronto
    Forum', then maybe you would be able to buy some beer and maybe
    even drink it while watching the Toronto Pinecones play hockey or
    the Toronto Quivering Aspen Leafs. I always thought that the plural
    of 'leaf' was 'leaves'. If I had ever said to my mother "Hey mom,
    I going outside now to rake the leafs...", I would have been give
    a quick gramatical lesson right there on the spot.
    	Appart from these reasons, I have no idea why beer is not sold
    at Maple Leaf Gardens. Maybe they should change the name to just
    "Beer Gardens". (Oom Pah Pah)
    
    Glenn
         

    No one would be caught dead in the Gardens while the Leafs are in
    the same Province... at least not until recently.  Apparently, Harold
    Ballard has a contract with a local mortuary to store excess stiffs
    in the Gardens' seats.  Ballard is able to grimly reap a huge profit
    and he fills the rink for the television crews.  As far as the sale
    of beer is concerned, there is a Provincial law which prevents this:
    
    	"...unlawful to sell intoxicating beverages to known dead persons
    or person."
    
    	Apparently, the penalty is to watch a 'live' Leafs game...so
    much for Detroiters. :^)

	I apologize for my two spelling mistakes. Pat pointed them out to 
me and I was so ashamed. Actually, I think I'll blame it on him. 
	This has again no bearing on the beer issue at all. If people from
Detroit want to see drinking at a hockey game, the Forum in Montreal serves
hard liquor as well as beer. The Canadiens are going to win the Stanley Cup
for an unprecedented 24th time this season!!! Go Habs Go !!!!
		(That should offend some Canadien haters, any takers?)
    
Renn Glichardson    

   This is about the "quiet Toronto crowd".  That is not caused by the 
lack of beer in the Gardens; but they might both be the result of some 
deeper pathology of Torontonians.

   People come to Toronto and go wild about how clean it is, how crime 
free it is, how well it is planned, how smoothly it runs.  It has 
something to do with an inner reserve and passiveness in the Toronto 
personality.  This isn't just an opinion, this is a fact anyone can 
experience, just as you did at the hockey game. 

   For example I have seen concerts by the Chieftains, and bar sets by 
Rough Trade, in similar settings both IN Toronto, and outside.  When I
see these groups in Ottawa or Montreal, I am one of the quieter ones;
but when I react the same in Toronto, people look at me funny, to see if 
they should edge away from me...  The groups don't tell Toronto 
audiences, but outside Toronto one of the things they start off with is 
how lively the crowd is compared with the one they just played in TO.
I remember one night at Grumbles in Toronto where someone from out of 
town was cheering, and got up and shouted at the other people in the
audience "what's the matter with you? this is great!" 

   What is this? a) CIA experiments drugging the water supply 
                 b) United Empire Loyalists embarassed if anyone thinks
                      they are enjoying themselves
                 c) Too much Scottish Presbyterian and High Anglican 
                      heritage, not enough Irish Catholic?
                 d) Worried about the Pickering reactor built for some
                      strange reason within 5 miles of Metro Toronto?
                      (who else would put up with that?)

   Born_there_and_moving_back

    Richard,
    	I'm not sure which crypts you been visiting but I have not
    experienced anything like the wild times I've had at the El Macombo
    on Spadina Street, or the U of T Engineering  Lady Godiva Memorial
    Parade, or even the Centre Island ferry at anytime during the summer.
    
    	However, glad to hear that you're moving back - maybe you can
    straighten those people out.
    
    Pat

How soon people forget......

	Remember when the  Toronto Argonauts  won  the Grey Cup four years ago? 
After they won,  the fans proceeded to parade through the city causing hundreds
of thousands of dollars worth of damage to shops and parked vehicles. There was
even some looting!!  Sounds like a rowdy bunch to me. I know I don't want to be 
anywhere near downtown Toronto should the Leafs ever win the Stanley Cup!! Why
those fans would likely pull down the CN Tower and watch it fall on the new 
domed stadium!!! 
	I must side with Pat, Torontonians can get pretty rowdy, not to mention
when the Italians win the World Cup of Soccer!!

	Glenn the Placid
                           

    re .4  people come to toronto and go wild about how clean it it...etc.
    
    when people from a real canadian city (montreal, halifax or st.
    john's) come to TO they fall a sleep.  TO has got to be the most
    boring city in the world.  the only ones with any life in them are
    the italians and they have been forced into forming their own
    sub-country "little italy".  actually ontario in general is pretty
    boring.  they don't even have neighborhood bars.  the only reason
    people drive so fast on the 401 is keep from falling a sleep, normally
    these ont. folk would not consider breaking the law.  i must say
    though that 'albert hall' is a good spot but it closes at 10:30.
    as for a "quiet toronto crowd" their all asleep by game time, they
    came catch the score in the "TO golbe" when they wake up.  besides
    there are laws in ontario against having fun.
    
    regards...john
    
    p.s.   there are other real canadian cities west ontario also.
    

    
    RE: .7
    
    I'm not sure about the 'boring' aspect of TO. Not being native,
    I explored several bars in my stay last weekend, and some were
    pretty active, although not totally wild. I was in Montreal for
    Labor Day, and found some really crazed spots, but it seems like
    most Americans go to bars frequented by Americans. My French isn't
    even passible, but I had a great time in some of the French-speaking
    bars.
    
    Back to TO, though...I haven't been to any places there thatare
    supercharged, perhaps Torontonians in the crowd have some suggestions.
    
    I went to 'The Big Bop', 'Hemingways', 'Copa', and some other little
    pub on Yorkville rd. about 20 yards from Remy's (which seems to
    hop in the summertime).
    
    I incited a riot with my original question about beer in the gardens,
    and I'm sure people have comments about the bars...oh, I forgot,
    I went to 'The Spotted Dick', but it seemed like a sedate English
    Pub.
    
    Randy

    i it has been my experience when going to an french-speaking bar
    and you don't speak the language, is to tell who ever is waiting
    on you that you are from boston or somewhere else in new england.
    then you'll be treated very nice, otherwise they assume you are
    an arrogant english-pig-dog from upper canada who refuses to learn
    french and  you'll be treated accordingly.  
    
    re .5 + .6
    
    imagine TO's causing thousands of dollars of damage(3K-4K).
    unthinkable, what would the queen say. tisk, tisk.

    re. .9
    
    	Hundreds of thousands I said! Not a mere 3 or 4.
    
    We are not amused!
    
    HRH Glenn IV

    hundreds of thousands! eeeeeeeee!  that must have been scary.  did
    the mayor inact the war-powers act?  anarchy!  what did the queen
    mom have to say?  its a good thing TO pro teams are limited to 1
    win per decade.   just think of the money harold is saving the city.
    you all should send letters of thanks to montreal and edmonton for
    winning all those stanely cups instead of TO.  maybe TO should
    have a "montreal appreciation day" after all 25 x "hundreds of
    thousands" is a big number.     :*)
    
                                                           
    regards....john

	How on earth can the mayor of Toronto invoke the War Powers Act??

HRH Glenn IV

    	The Prime Minister *might* invoke the War Measures Act, not
    the War Powers Act as it is called in the US of A.
    
    	I wonder if we can get the originator of this note to respond
    to the level of superciliousness that we have sunk, or is he satisfied
    with our low brow replies?
    
    	John (Molloy) are you aspiring to become a cretin, or does everyone
    from Deloosy U. fail 'Capitals I and II'.  Don't concern yourself
    with my line of questioning, it just that I noticed that while I
    was at U of T , most of the engineers had flunked 'Blanket' and
    'Sandbox' in Kindergarten.  Your affliction is less serious but
    still curious. ;-)
    
    Pat

    war power/war measures who cares!  i still can't be believe there
    was a riot in TO.  did they call in 'prince randy' to put down the
    revolt.
    
    i like low brow replies.
    
    btw it's "delousy university".  capitals 100 and 101 are not required
    courses for engineers either is spelling.  thought that 'blanket'
    and 'sandbox' were masters level courses for arts students at 
    at u of TO.
    
    regards...john
    

        Mhhh!  Why is the author of .13 is so much on the defensive ?
        Must be a reason ...
        
        Things must have changed a lot since those years I lived in 
        Toronto (or 'taranna' as they call it there; those were 82-84).
        In those years, even people I knew FROM Toronto hated it too!!
        Actually, I'm lying about 'living' there.  People sleep, work,
        eat, etc. in Toronto, but they don't really live there.  
        
        What do I remember best from Toronto ?  There was this business
        man who was tired of waiting for the green light at Bloor and
        Yonge.  After the cars were gone, he races to the other side.
        Shocked, a middle aged lady on the other side goes to a nearby 
        policeman and tries to get him to give the man a ticket ...
        for jay walking!!  Fortunately, the policeman had not seen the
        'incident'.     
        
        However, I did enjoy living in Kitchener-Waterloo and Montreal 
        (few years each), and spending time in various other Canadian 
        and US cities through the years.
        
        Pierre (now very much enjoying Sydney, Australia)