| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 342.1 | SO!!! | USRCV1::JEFFERSONL | | Tue Mar 24 1987 16:49 | 6 |
| SO WHAT POINT ARE YOU TRYING TO MAKE???
THANX
LORENZO
|
| 342.2 | Similar to his book? | CSC32::KACHELMYER | Dave Kachelmyer CSC VMS SPACE | Wed Mar 25 1987 01:26 | 11 |
| RE: .0
Did the article mention whether the information was similar to what's
presented in LaBerge's book, or if this is additional stuff?
RE: .1
I believe that Mike was simply offering the information, not
necessarily trying to make a point. I enjoyed it.
Kak
|
| 342.3 | It didn't really say. | AIMHI::SMITH | Never say never, I always say. | Thu Mar 26 1987 12:08 | 23 |
|
re: .2
Dave,
The article didn't specifically state that it was a synopsis
of the book, or even had any similar information. However, I
wouldn't be surprised if it did.
re: .1
Lorenzo,
Lighten-up dude! As Dave easily observed, it was purely an
informational note for anyone who may be interested in some
light reading about lucid dreaming. I really didn't think
it was necessary to point out that I wasn't trying to make
a point. Guess I was wrong.
Mike
|
| 342.4 | Now I remember | VICKI::DODIER | | Fri Apr 03 1987 13:08 | 5 |
| re:0
Thanks for the reminder, I seen the advertisement on TV then
forgot all about it till now.
RAYJ
|
| 342.5 | The Omni experiment | VICKI::DODIER | | Wed Apr 15 1987 13:39 | 43 |
| I got the Omni magazine. I was a little dissapointed with the
article. Although it was about 2 pages long, it didn't say much.
There were 4 parts to the technique. I remember 3 off hand and they
are as follows:
1. During the day, ask your self if you are dreaming and how
you know that you are not dreaming. The example given was to read
something twice. If it appeared the same both times, it was highly
probable that you were awake.
2. Tell yourself that you are going to fly in your dreams tonight.
Try to pick a person and/or place you wish to visit. It also says
that if you experience a falling sensation while dreaming, try to turn
that into flying (like superman as the article calls it) as there is
no gravity in the dream world.
3. Once in a dream, if you feel it fading, try to imagine your
body spinning like a top with your arms extended. This is supposed
to help return you to your dream. The article says to try and note
which direction (CW or CCW).
I can recheck the article to verify the above and find out what
the 4th part was if anybody is interested. Before I bought the
magazine, I had a dream in which I was flying like superman. I have
not been able to recreate that since I got the magazine. The article
tells you to see how far you can get in the technique in 2 weeks
and then asks you to fill out a questionaire. I'm on the beginning
of my second week now.
The last two nights I've had the same dream. It basically involved
me examining a seemingly infinite list of dream parameters to select as to
the way I want my dream to go. The list is so unbelievably long
that I wake up before making any selections.
One thing I'm going to start doing, (that I should have done
already) is to keep a dream diary. When I first woke up, I remembered
what quite a few of the dream parameters were in lasts nights dream and
can't really recall any of them now.
Another thing I noticed is if you wake up an hour or so before
you have to get up, then go back to sleep, you are not only more
likely to dream, but also a lot more likely to remember what you
dreamed (or maybe just the later is true).
Enough for now as this is getting long winded.
RAYJ
|
| 342.6 | Any luck? | PABLO::FLEMING | | Thu May 07 1987 18:47 | 29 |
|
Has anyone had any success with the techniques described in this
article? I have had lucid dreams at sporadic intervals several
times before this article came out but scored direct hits the first
two nights I tried their techniques. The first was unlike any other
I've ever had because it was so vivid. I found myself standing on
the main street of the town where I went to college. I was amazed
at the blue of the sky, the green of the leaves and the warm summer
air. As soon as I recognized where I was the feeling of "Hey, I'm
dreaming" hit me. I then attempted to try to prove that this was
really a dream. I walked over to a mailbox and attempted to push
my hand through the surface. In dreamland this would be no big
deal. I could clearly see the red and blue color and feel the metal
warmed by the sun. I could even feel little eruptions of rust that I
hadn't noticed visually. Try as I might I couldn't push my hand
through though I had a nagging feeling that my own disbelief was
holding my back. Soon as I stopped trying the dream ended.
Second time was much murkier. I was wandering around some hotel.
I didn't consciously say "this is a dream" but I did accept the fact
that since I am dreaming I can walk through walls, which I did quite
easily.
Since then, no luck. Maybe I'm trying too hard since they are always
a lot of fun and, except for the last two, have always involved flying.
Anyone else have any luck?
John...
|
| 342.7 | | GRAMPS::LISS | ESD&P Shrewsbury | Fri May 08 1987 16:02 | 5 |
| Sounds interesting. Does any one have a copy of the article they
can send me?
Fred
|
| 342.8 | Worked for me too! | GNUVAX::LIBRARIAN | Looking at the big sky | Mon Jun 22 1987 19:31 | 15 |
|
I've been reading Labarge's book _Lucid Dreaming_. The techniques
in the Omni article are a subset of those outlined in the book.
Since I've been reading the book and trying some of the techniques
I've been having lucid dreams about once every two weeks.
I've been trying the technique of 'checking' several times a day
and asking myself if I'm dreaming. During a recent lucid dream I
tried the same thing and once I decided I was dreaming I tried to
confirm that by reading something. There was a (conveniently) nearby
newspaper which I tried to read. Sure enough, the letters veritably
squirmed on the page! I couldn't make out much of anything.
Lance
|
| 342.9 | "All I ever do is, dream...." | PUZZLE::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Wed Jul 22 1987 04:15 | 20 |
| For some mention of lucid dreaming by Lazaris, there is a small
section in note 358.74.
Personally, since the week-long seminar I had with Lazaris, I
have been working at keeping a journal as the first step in lucid
dreaming. So far, (after three months) I have not found a particular
pattern and only ocassionally have I had a sense of "consciousness"
while I slept. I am somewhat disappointed that I often cannot remember
the dream long enough to write it down although I am very much aware
of the dream most of the time at the point of waking up. This past
year or so has seen a great deal more of "desirable" dreams than
I can usually remember having had in my past (by desirable I mean
dreams in seminars or dreams with a girlfriend or my son or perhaps
dreams with naked women in them, e.g.) I am anxious to have dreams
that I can consciously direct and have them be more meaningful,
e.g. to help me create more money, more personal power or a better
life in general or maybe to help me solve a particular problem.
Happy dreams!
Frederick
|
| 342.10 | Try a tape recorder | FDCV01::ARVIDSON | Say *NO* to anti-taping chips!!! | Wed Jul 22 1987 14:20 | 17 |
| Many people that I have worked with find the best way to record a dream is
by using a tape machine. I believe this works better because by using a tape
machine rather that writing you prevent random thoughts from distracting you
while you are attempting to record the dream or dreams. By talking into a
tape recorder, you can imagine you are talking to a friend, and thus talk
a continuous stream.
When recording dreams it is very easy to get distracted. A dream is usually
very rapid and random in direction. At one point you'll be at your parents
house and then walk a couple of steps and be in your basement. So when
attempting to record your dream try to use a vehicle that offers few
distractions.
You can get mini-tape recorders for cheap - $20-40
Hope this helps,
Dan
|
| 342.11 | Dream machines for uanme | PUZZLE::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Thu Jul 23 1987 00:01 | 13 |
| re: -.1
Thanks for the tip. Is it more work, however, to then transcribe
the tape onto paper? It seems more useful having the paper to look
at to see patterns, etc. plus it seems less "private" to talk into
a tape recorder. I will give it a try as soon as I get one of those
neat little tape machines, however, since it does sound fairly
reasonable. The reason to have the ability to dream lucidly, however,
seems like a damn good one...for most of us, fully a third of our
lives is "wasted". How nice to be able to accomplish things that
we want to while we sleep.
Frederick
|
| 342.12 | Tapes & Paper | NATASH::BUTCHART | | Thu Jul 23 1987 12:22 | 17 |
| Re: .11
It is indeed another step to transcribe the taped text onto the
printed page for your own use. With my secretarial skills still
intact, I have not minded this. And I find I do catch more of the
details and sequence of action by speaking than writing. When writing
I would tend to summarize or gloss over things in the interests
of getting the whole thing down; I would lose a lot of important
detail this way. The one hitch is that, having a husband to sleep
with, I have a dual problem--waking him up, and feeling shy speaking
my innermost images into a tape beside him, especially if a dream
was disturbing. If you don't have a bed partner I'd highly recommend
the tape. You can transcribe the tape at your leisure and set aside
some time, either each day, or a couple hours on weekends, to go
over all the material and discern your own patterns.
Marcia
|
| 342.13 | another vote for tape | GNUVAX::LIBRARIAN | Looking at the big sky | Thu Jul 23 1987 14:05 | 27 |
|
I recommend tape as well. It's good because you can have it all set up
by your bed and ready to go. Then when you first wake up in the
morning (or better yet, during the night) you can lie there with
your eyes closed and recapture the dream as fully as possible. This
way you don't have to turn on the light or deal with all the focus
required to put pencil to paper. You may be suprised at the detail
you will be able to capture in this way.
I was astonished the first time I listened to a tape log of a dream
that I had made in the middle of the night. It sounded like a voice
from another world! It very nearly was. Lieing there in the dark,
comfortable and warm with just my little microphone in my hand, as I
recalled the dream I came close to re-entering it. My voice sounded
very strange, and the flow of thought was more dream-like than
every-day-like. Things that I said which made perfect sense at the time
sounded unusual the next day, but really gave me the feel of what it
was like.
As for bed-partners, whispering or talking quietly seems to be less
disturbing than turning on a light to write, and anyone I trust enough
to share my bed can share my dreams!
Lance
|
| 342.14 | | NATASH::BUTCHART | | Thu Jul 23 1987 18:12 | 32 |
| Re: .13
It's not that I'm afraid I'll be committed or anything, but my husband
does not remember anything he dreams. Nothing, nil, zero. I used
to try to tell him my dreams, but gave up because he couldn't remotely
"get into" the feeling I'd be trying to convey. His usual reaction
is complete puzzlement or complete hilarity ("and then the clock
changed into an alligator?? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahaha . . . !")
He has no feeling for the wondrous illogical magic of that state
of consciousness.
It doesn't mean he isn't caring and supportive. He has learned
over the years the physical symptoms I exhibit when having a nightmare;
he wakens and comforts me. But I don't bother trying to tell him the
content; nothing "clicks" for him. Or he'll get overly practical
to the point of silliness ("why don't I alarm the windows? Then
you'll stop dreaming you hear burglars walking around the house."
Or "you take excellent care of your teeth--I can't understand why
you should dream they fell out.")
Diff'rent strokes, I guess . . . although I'd love to have a "dream"
confidante who could listen, help me think symbolically, and intuit
meanings. Trying to "save up" my dreams to work on with a therapist
is less than effective; by the time I go to an appointment a dream's
urgency has often passed, or I've remembered so *many* dreams that
I can't figure out which to focus on. It'd be lovely to have someone
to talk to right then, to help me interpret a dream and put it in
perspective so I wouldn't keep worrying it like a bitten place in my
mouth. That would feel as good to me as eating a good meal when
I'm truly hungry, rather than on a superimposed schedule.
Marcia
|
| 342.15 | How about building an understanding community? | FDCV01::ARVIDSON | Say *NO* to anti-taping chips!!! | Thu Jul 23 1987 20:37 | 43 |
| RE: -1
Regarding someone to help you interpret your dreams, I mentioned in .10 that
I've worked with people. To elaborate, for more than a year my wife and I
have been involved with friends in creating a community. Every Thursday night
we would meet with 8-10 other people. We start with a Spiral Meditation at
7:30, a sugar/fruit break then either a healing, ritual, tarot or dream
interpretations. As of a month ago the person who lead the group, who we
affectionately call 'Baba Dick', decided to bring the gourp to closure. He
felt that as a group we had grown as much as we could and that the best for
us was to go our own ways. So we had a closing Workshop Weekend to welcome
in the Solstice(SP) on the Cape.
I mention this because my wife and I will be starting a group shortly. The
intention of our group will be determined by the group when we start. But,
we would like to continue the meditation then proceed with what interests the
group. I will post more info here when we decide to start it.
I mention this as recruitment, but also to say that you can start a group of
your own. There are many people who participate in this forum and are more
than willing to participate in person. Also, I live in Marlboro and that may
be a haul for some and our apartment isn't a large hall.
To start a group all it takes is:
- Willingness to grow
- " to share
- " to build a community
- " to trust yourself and the others in the community you
build
- " to open your house to new friends
The participants, you included, will guide the group. Every week someone
volunteers to bring the cookies, tarts, or fruit. And the price of admission
is a greeting hug and to be open.
I know this is getting off the subject of the note, but it relates to your
concern of interpreting your dream. It doesn't take a therapist, just other
people who grow with you and see you for who you are.
I'll start a new note on Meditation groups so we can discuss this further.
IDIC,
Dan
|
| 342.17 | | PUZZLE::GUEST_TMP | HOME, in spite of my ego! | Fri Jul 24 1987 05:02 | 30 |
| re: -.1
Paul, I guess we could argue this point in similar fashion
to the "argument" I had with Jerri in 358 in regards to floating.
At least in terms of semantics. However, from my vantage point
I see most of my nights (for my life thus far) as being random
in terms of dream generation, etc. There is no conscious control
here, absolutely no dominion while I sleep. While it is perhaps
arguably not being wasted since, after all, I am "doing" something,
MY fact [note the use of the word "fact" SK, Jr.] (hey, this has
just produced a real neat dejavu for me! :-) ) is that I want to
blast out/away from these "lower planes" upon my death and the
way I have gone thus far I'm probably going to do well to reach
the higher levels of the astral plane...I want more! And to do
more I will ask for help, from wherever the sources are most
"useful." What I am trying to say is that I *CAN* use the "time"
while I'm sleeping to consciously create more than if I eliminate
that part of myself. "Efficiency," someone could say. This approach
appears to be valid even though I will acknowledge that my reasons
could be suspect. "Right for the wrong reasons." Anyway, no, I'm
not going to beat myself up or feel guilt over my inability to produce
results in this area, but since I am actively in pursuit of growth
I feel that this is an area that I can expand in. We will never
run out of room for growth...so that isn't the issue. I find this
particular challenge of interest and I wish to pursue it and I will
feel a sense of disappointment probably until I do.
Does this reply answer your observation?
Frederick
|
| 342.19 | Dream a little dream for me. | CSCMA::EINES | Wind 'em up and let 'em go! | Fri Dec 04 1987 16:53 | 15 |
| I was in NYC for Thanksgiving, and picked up a copy of _Lucid_Dreaming_.
So far, I'm only 1/3 through. It does seem worthwhile, but the
author is prone to a conversational writing style, as well as little
amusing anecdotes(it's almost as bad as talking to your manager!).
He has many philosopical views, which is he not shy about sharing.
It looks like I am just getting to the "meaty" parts. I hope to
be able to make some personal use of his techniques. Dreams and
dreaming have always fascinated me, as well as the barrier between
the conscious and subconscious.<<<<look into the terminal...you
are getting very sleepyyyy>>>
Fred
|
| 342.20 | Lucid Dreaming | WELLIN::NISBET | Disarm yourself bomb | Fri Jan 17 1992 12:51 | 18 |
| About a couple of years ago, I was fascinated by Lucid Dreaming. As far
as I know, there are two books which cover the subject in any depth.
- Lucid Dreaming, by Stephen LaBerge
- Creative Dreaming by Patricia Garfield.
I've read both books. I found Creative Dreaming a bit of a yawn. It was
very whimsical and I distrusted the 'Opinion expressed as Fact' which
the style adopted. Lucid Dreaming is great book. LaBerge balances his
chatty prose well with scientific impartiality.
I had two very vivid Lucid Dreams after that. This convinced me the
phenomena actually exists. Unfortunately, I haven't had any more. (At
least - none I can remember). I can't be bothered keeping a dream diary
either.
Dougie
|
| 342.21 | New book. | CADSYS::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Fri Jan 17 1992 14:04 | 4 |
| Steven LaBerge has a new book out in paperback on learning to dream
lucidly. I forget its title.
Topher
|
| 342.22 | any refs? | WELLIN::NISBET | Disarm yourself bomb | Fri Jan 17 1992 14:22 | 7 |
| I'd be interested in a reference, preferably an ISBN or whatever it's
called. The only place I managed to get in in the UK was Inter-Library
Loan (they got it from outside the UK!), or from a shop called
Compendium in Camden, London which specialises in wierd books.
Dougie
|
| 342.23 | Can get them. | CADSYS::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Fri Jan 17 1992 14:48 | 5 |
| Since I bought it the other day (though I haven't had time to look
at it yet), I can provide full details on Monday -- if I don't flake
out.
Topher
|
| 342.24 | | BCSE::SUEIZZ::GENTILE | ALL-IN-1 DESKtop for DOS | Fri Jan 17 1992 15:04 | 10 |
| I just recently got both of these books. I started using the Lucid Dreaming
book and one of the first things it said was to work on remembering your
dreams for like 12 days and writing them down before going to work on the
rest of the book and having lucid dreams. I have tried but I usually can't
remember anything when I wake up. I say to myself that I will before I go to
to bed and I have the notebook nearby, but usually if I wake up, I can't
remember much. Any ideas?
Sam
|
| 342.25 | Practice, practice, practice. | REGENT::BROOMHEAD | Don't panic -- yet. | Fri Jan 17 1992 16:09 | 7 |
| Sam,
Write down even the pathetic little bit that you do remember. Doing
so may help you remember more, or it may stimulate your subconscious
to do better next time. Include the emotional quality of the dream.
Ann B.
|
| 342.26 | | BCSE::SUEIZZ::GENTILE | ALL-IN-1 DESKtop for DOS | Fri Jan 17 1992 16:15 | 5 |
| Thanks Ann for your response. That's what I am trying to do. Maybe it get's
better with pratice.
Sam
|
| 342.27 | Reinforcing self-suggestion cycle | DWOVAX::STARK | A life of cautious abandon | Fri Jan 17 1992 16:15 | 8 |
| re: .25, .26,
Yes, Ann is absolutely on the money. The whole trick from what
I've found is that you need to auto-suggest that
remembering is important, and to do that it helps greatly to make
the physical effort of writing something down, even if it's
'nothing happened.'
todd
|
| 342.28 | Moreover. | CADSYS::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Fri Jan 17 1992 16:36 | 12 |
| And if you don't remember *anything* write down whatever pops into your
head. Some of it may be stuff "almost remembered" from your dream.
Even if not, it seems to help exercise the right "mental muscle".
Even if you do remember a little or a lot, have room in your notebook
(e.g., draw a line across after each dream entry) for free association
on the contents of your dream. You may find it valuable in any
attempts at interpretation, it may make patterns easier to find,
it frequently brings more details to conscious memory, and it, once
again seems to help develop the dream-recording knack.
Topher
|
| 342.29 | Fred humor...don't pay attention... | WR1FOR::WARD_FR | Making life a mystical adventure | Fri Jan 17 1992 16:54 | 8 |
| re: .28 (Topher)
I must be in weekend mode, Topher...forgive me, but as I
quickly glanced at your first line in your reply, I read it as
"...write down whatever poops into your head."
Frederick
|
| 342.30 | | BCSE::SUEIZZ::GENTILE | ALL-IN-1 DESKtop for DOS | Fri Jan 17 1992 17:16 | 4 |
| Thanks for the replies. I will try it out.
Sam
|
| 342.31 | hint for eager dreamer | TNPUBS::STEINHART | | Tue Jan 21 1992 15:21 | 7 |
| If you start getting successful at remembering your dreams, you may
find that you have vastly more dream material than you can write down.
If so, recall the most emotionally potent image or scene, and focus
your recall on that.
Laura
|
| 342.32 | nuts? | TYFYS::OCONNELL | | Mon Jan 27 1992 15:15 | 15 |
| Okay, now I am upset....
Until I read this note, I have been having lucid dreams and I thought
they were preminations, they were so real. I mean, I would stop the
dream and say, "okay, this isn't a dream but a premonition, lets watch what
happens and I will write it down in my dream book so when it comes
true, I can say I dreamt it". Are you all telling me that I was just
lucid dreaming?...Are lucid dreams more than just dreams? Can they be?
I know someone will ask if anything I have written down has come true
yet. To be honest, no. My dream book is only a month long and I have
a personnal belief that my dreams become reality after a long
time...say a year. However, I believe (or WANT to believe) that my
"lucid dreams" are dreams but premonitions....sound nuts???
|
| 342.33 | | CARTUN::MISTOVICH | | Mon Jan 27 1992 15:46 | 15 |
| PJ,
The biggest problem I have is determining whether a dream is
precognitive (I've had those), clairvoyant (I've had those), or
working through issues on my mind (I've had those). If you even figure
out how to sort it all out, please let me know.
Anyway, my understanding of a lucid dream is not that it necessarily
feels real, but that you're able to consciously control some part of
the action. Don Juan had Carlos Castaneda try to find his hands. An
example of a spontaneous lucid dream might be the kind when, in the
midst of a nightmare, you tell yourself "it's only a dream" and lose
your fear or are able to wake yourself up.
Mary
|
| 342.34 | ... and bolts. | CADSYS::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Mon Jan 27 1992 15:50 | 33 |
| No, it doesn't sound nuts, but I'm afraid that you may be disappointed.
Research has shown that dreams seem to be, sometimes, a conduit for
ESP. I don't know any research that indicates that lucid dreams are
any better (or worse) for this than ordinary, at-least-moderately
vivid dreams. I imagine that Stephen LaBarge, probably the top expert
in lucid dreaming, would have mentioned this if he had known any
evidence for this when he gave an invited lecture at the
Parapsychological Association convention a few years ago. Of course
that *was* several years ago and there may now be such evidence. But
I definitly do not remember any pattern of this from when I was reading
a lot of reports on "ostensibly precognitive dreams."
... but don't say "just lucid dreaming". Lucid dreams are a lot more
than ordinary dreams. They are the ultimate in dream diary type work.
A dream diary allows you to examine "reports" of your inner world after
the fact -- lucid dreams allow you to live in and consciously explore
that inner world in real time. It is a wonderful opportunity to learn
about yourself, to grow, or to just have a good time. I recommend
that you read LaBerge's books on the subject.
It might be interesting to experiment with *making* a lucid dream into
a precognitive one. For example, when you "wake up" in a dream you
might tell yourself "tomorrows newspaper front page will be in that
box" the go over and open it up. See what happens. (I don't know
of anyone who has done this -- it really is an experiment). Use your
imagination -- that's part of what lucid dreams are about.
And of course, everything I say is about "in general" and you are
really only interested in "specifically." Perhaps for you lucid
dreams are premonitions.
Topher
|
| 342.35 | | CGVAX2::CONNELL | Visualize whirled peas! | Tue Jan 28 1992 15:02 | 12 |
| Mary, it wasn't I who asked the question. That was an O'Connell. not a
Connell. However, I am trying to figure all this lucid dreaming stuff
out, myself. I've read the books. Tried the techniques and by the time
I realize it's a dream and I can control it, I wake up. The dream
almost always fades immediately, so I don't have much for the Dream
Book. Just a short blurb along the lines of "the Dream involved Mary
Mistovich somehow." :-) I think that one, I'm trying to hard and two,
I'm probablyu just to tired by the time I get to sleep, to control it.
The sleep is to deep and I'm so tired, that it's hard to relax.
Meditation doesn't always relax me enough.
PJ
|
| 342.36 | | CARTUN::MISTOVICH | | Tue Jan 28 1992 15:09 | 9 |
| Oops! Sorry PJ (not o') Connell ;-). I think remembering dreams takes
a lot of practice and I don't think you can try too hard. If you try
too hard, the worst that will happen is that you won't be able to fall
asleep! I've been recording dreams (at least mentally, if not in
writing) since I was a wee tot and used to share them with my sister
first thing in the morning. But I still have many dreams that are very
hard to pin down and have nights when I just plain don't remember'em.
Mary
|
| 342.37 | what would you call this? | MPO::ROBINSON | starry eyes sparkling ablaze | Tue Jan 28 1992 15:53 | 20 |
|
I don't write in here much, but something that was said a
few replies back hit home. For years I have had dreams that
have come true, to every detail. When the dream occured, it
made no sense. For example, 2 yrs ago, I dreamed I was talking
to a man I didn't know, sitting in a yard I'd never seen, under
an apple tree (short and gnarled). I was saying `look, his eyes
are yellow. They were blue before but now they're yellow'. Now,
what the heck does that mean?? Seems like your average weird
dream. Then I found myself this past August sitting under an
apple tree with my husband's buddy, holding a kitten who had been
born with blue eyes, which had turned yellow (as kittens often do).
And guess what I was saying? Exactly, word for word. Halfway
through the second sentence I knew I had said it before. Is this
ESP? This happens quite often. Sometimes it's reading a book in
a dream, and then redaing it years later. Weird...
Sherry
|
| 342.38 | | CARTUN::MISTOVICH | | Tue Jan 28 1992 16:20 | 9 |
| When I have these kinds of experiences I feel very much
like everything is simultaneous. It's a matter of where we
focus our attention. In dreams, sometimes our attention focuses
on a another point in space/time. And sometimes, even when we are
"awake." Most of us are very near-sighted and can only see what's
"under our noses." Others are a little more farsighted. Usually,
though, the farther away the point, the less clear our vision is.
Mary
|
| 342.39 | me too! | TYFYS::OCONNELL | | Tue Jan 28 1992 19:19 | 6 |
| Sherry, that is exactly how I feel about my dreams. They seem to come
true about 1 - 2 years later. It really is fascinating and I love it
when it happens...I wish it happened to me before. Because of this, I
am of the belief (as mentioned) that dreams can be a form of ESP...
carrie
|
| 342.41 | different type of dreams... | TYFYS::OCONNELL | | Wed Jan 29 1992 14:33 | 23 |
| Cliff,
I see your point. However, in my case, my analyzing/recording of my
dreams is not to act on them but kind of a wait and see attitude. In
many cases it gives me comfort. For example, my husband and I have
been trying to conceive for the past 3 years. A very frustrating
experience. Three months ago I dreamt I was talking to a little girl.
I stopped my dream and said "thats my daughter" and I started watching
the dream play out before my excitment woke me up. Because of that
dream, a lot of my frustration is gone...I'm more calm about the
situation. Of course to a lot of people this probably sounds crazy.
But since it has happened to me so many times, I just accept it of
things to come.
If one likes to study dreams for the immediate present, then the above
is of no help. Keeping track for me is more like an ego trip..."See, I
dreamt that". Because those are the only dreams that I have been aware
of, I have never thought of analyzing my others. I have gotten in the
habit of just waiting for the preminition ones, and ignoring all the
others. Your note and all the preious ones have given me something to
think about.... As mentioned earlier, maybe there are many different
types of dreams...its just difficult to figure out which ones are which.
|
| 342.42 | | MPO::ROBINSON | starry eyes sparkling ablaze | Wed Jan 29 1992 18:36 | 18 |
|
In the case of the dream about the kittens eyes, it was a
*different* type of dream. It was extremely clear, and I
don't generally dream (or remember doing so). I know when
I woke up I thought something along the lines of `what the
HECK was that all about'. And I sortof filed it away, like
a book I had read, if I picked the book up again I would
remember having read it, and probably where I was sitting
when I read it. The same feeling occurs when the dream comes
real, I feel like I did when I first dreamt it, I can picture
myself waking up and thinking `what the HECK...', all while
the conversation was taking place (the second time).
Explaining this makes it sound befuddled, but it's very clear
to me. I seem to be blessed with a very sharp memory, I guess.
Sherry
|
| 342.43 | Similar... | FORTY2::CADWALLADER | Reaping time has come... | Thu Jan 30 1992 15:43 | 9 |
| RE: -1
My ex-girlfriend used to have exactlt the same experience of
non-sensical dreams which were *exact* "clips" of things to come,
usually of small snatches of unimportant conversations between us
etc... she was always so surprised when a previously-dreamt scene
happened that I believed what she said...
- JIM CAD*
|
| 342.44 | Anyone have this experience? | VIRGO::TENNEY | | Thu Jan 30 1992 20:39 | 15 |
|
The strangest thing happened to me about 6yrs. ago. I was having
a normal dream about a friend of mine. We had become very close
at this moment in our lives. I knew what I felt for him was indeed
very special. In my dream I felt the deepest feeling of love for him.
From what I can remember now the dream was telling me there was someone
else out there that I have yet to meet. So I awoke crying (panting type
with lots of tears on my pillow) because I knew he wasn't the one for me
at this time or any other time during my life time but the love I felt
was so strong and real I couldn't help crying...
Anyone else awake crying?
Michelle
P.s.- I've met him. :^)
|
| 342.45 | | DSSDEV::GRIFFIN | Practice random kindness and senseless acts of beauty | Thu Jan 30 1992 20:52 | 10 |
|
I frequently awaken from dreams still feeling the emotions of the dream: fear,
sorrow, joy. The dreams that have these results are usually long, full of
detail and memories. And usually weird :-) Like the dream I woke from where I
dreamt that I dreamt I was sharing my bed with a dead body, which I KNEW it
wasn't, and I was trying to get my "real" bedmate to wake me up. When I finally
did truly wake up, I was still confused, and the shadows in the shadows made me
not see my husband's face clearly.
Beth
|
| 342.46 | me too | TNPUBS::PAINTER | let there be music | Thu Jan 30 1992 21:57 | 11 |
|
Re.44
Michelle,
Yes, something similar has happened to me, with the feelings of
very intense divine unconditional love (in my case).
It was a lot more 'real' than your ordinary dream though. (;^)
Cindy
|
| 342.47 | the seen scene | GIAMEM::ROSE | | Fri Jan 31 1992 10:00 | 39 |
| re: .37. .42
Sherry,
In answer to your title question, "what would you call this?" -
I'd call it a precognitive hypnopompic image and *not* a dream.
Hypnagogic and hypnopompic images are those pictures that appear
when you're just falling asleep or just waking up. I find (from
my admittedly limited point of view) that they are almost always
precognitive. They depict something that is going to happen in
the future, something that is not necessarily earth-shaking but
which is of emotional significance, however trivial, to the "dream-
er." I don't think that the images are depicting something that is
destined to happen, but something that most probably will happen un-
less sommething intervenes to prevent it. For an example of a hypna-
gogic image, see note 2.93.
When someone first encounters a hypnopompic image, his or her reaction
is just what you describe. The "dream" seems so "different," so "ex-
tremely clear" that the question is "...what the HECK was that all
about?" A typical pattern would be to wake up (more or less), open
your eyes, and then close them to go back to sleep, whereupon an image
appears, often vivid. It's as though you're seeing the tail-end of an
unfinished dream. But if you happen to remember the content of the
dream, and if you compare it to the content of the image, you'll find
that they have nothing in common.
Dreams tend to have more of a story or a plot than images do. The
images are more like scenes or happenings. Dreams usually engage
the dreamer emotionally. Images do not. In fact they seem to be de-
void of emotion. If and when an image becomes significant to you as
you're viewing it, your emotions may suddenly kick in, as suddenly
as though a switch had been thrown. Images are like lucid dreams in
the sense that you're conscious when experiencing them. And, like
dreams, their "language" may be literal and/or symbolic.
Virginia
|
| 342.48 | | MPO::ROBINSON | starry eyes sparkling ablaze | Fri Jan 31 1992 11:30 | 7 |
|
Thank you, Virginia, and they do always happen right before
waking up. It would be so interesting if it would happen more
often!! :)
Sherry
|
| 342.49 | hypnopompic? | CARTUN::MISTOVICH | | Fri Jan 31 1992 17:51 | 19 |
| re: .47
I went through 2-3 years of having that kind of experience
(hypnopompic?). However, in my case they were less precognitive than
clairvoyant. I was overhearing parts of conversations (the parts that
concerned me) between 2 or more people that were taking place at that
time. On a number of occasions, I heard them make decisions that were
announced at a later date.
The sad part of it was that there was nothing I could do, in some
cases, to rectify the situation. For example, I heard some of them
provide incorrect information (read lies) about me and decisions were
then made based on misconceptions. I couldn't very well go up to the
involved parties and straighten things out because I wasn't supposed to
know. All I could do was allow events to play themselves out and allow
the truth to come out. As always, it did in time, but not before there
was a lot of damage done.
Mary
|
| 342.50 | pomp: an ostentatious display (usually post-REM) | GIAMEM::ROSE | | Tue Feb 04 1992 08:42 | 43 |
|
re: 49 (Mary)
In order to determine if the experiences you describe were hypno-
pompic, I think we'd have to know where you were in the sleep/wake
cycles - but I don't see why they couldn't have been. "Imagery"
doesn't necessarily have to refer to mental pictures. I haven't
been able to locate any reference material that discusses the techni-
cal aspects of hypnagogic and hypnopomic imagery and the definitions
that researchers are currently using.
Did your clairaudient experiences contain any visual pictures?
How were you able to determine the time element in these conversa-
tions? How could you tell if they were taking place in the past,
the present, or the future? For example, say that you heard these
people talking on a Wednesday. Then, on Friday, they actually an-
nounced the decision that they decided on on Wednesday. How could
you tell that the decision you heard on Wednesday wasn't actually
made until Thursday, in which case it would have been precognized
by you?
Also, aside from the fact that the images themselves are representa-
tions of conversations, they may have been simulated conversations.
Your brain may have had enough pertinent information to predict what
the conversations would be if they were to take place. That may have
been why you heard Wednesday's conversation on Wednesday - and not on
Tuesday.
In any case, your experiences were fascinating. Knowing what you did,
it's too bad that you couldn't have intervened somehow in the unfortu-
nate chain of events. I always hope that someday we will be able to
make such interventions, particularly in cases of preventable trage-
dies.
Virginia
|
| 342.51 | Group dreaming?! | BONKA::FINNIE | | Tue Feb 04 1992 09:44 | 14 |
|
Some time ago, I saw a ducumentary on British TV on lucid dreaming.
I think the program was Q.E.D. but can't really remember.
The only thing taht sticks in my mind from this program was that
some people who had full control over their dreams, claimed to
be able to arrange to meet up with their lucid-dreaming friends
in their separate dreams. Afterwards, each individual claimed to
be able to tell the same sequence of events from the dream, after
the point at which they met up!
Has anyone experienced or heard of this sort of thing before?
- Don
|
| 342.52 | zzzzzzz....:) | GIAMEM::ROSE | | Tue Feb 04 1992 09:48 | 15 |
|
re: .48 (Sherry)
Do you also find that these "dreams" (hypnopompic images) occur
more frequently toward morning than earlier at night? If so,
that's because they follow REM or rapid eye movement sleep (where
regular dreaming and lucid dreaming usually occur), and there's
more REM later. As LaBerge says in "Lucid Dreaming," "In a night
when you get seven hours of sleep, fifty percent of your dreaming
time will fall in the last two hours."
Do you ever see hypnagogic images?
Virginia
|
| 342.53 | | MPO::ROBINSON | starry eyes sparkling ablaze | Tue Feb 04 1992 11:57 | 15 |
|
re .52
Virginia - Yes, they always happen during the last hour
or two before I wake up in the morning.
My maternal grandmother's sister tells me that she and her
mother both had this ability, and that it passes down through
the family. What do you think of that? She also told me my
great-grandmother what a `white witch', but I'm not sure what
she meant by that, I will have to ask her further...(I mean that
I'm nore sure what HER definition of white witch is).
Sherry
|
| 342.54 | more details | CARTUN::MISTOVICH | | Tue Feb 04 1992 12:05 | 37 |
| The "clairaudient" experiences generally happened on Saturdays, early
afternoon. I would be putzing around my apartment and would suddenly
become very sleepy and half-collapse into a chair or onto my couch. I
would be in a half-doze when I heard the conversation. I
sometimes only heard one person's side of the conversation. In the
Saturday cases I had the sense that it was a phone conversation. On
one occasion I got up and called the two individuals involved -- their
lines were both busy (I realize this doesn't "prove" anything, but if
their lines hadn't been busy it would have disproved the possibility of
a phone call). In the daytime events, there were no visual images
involved. On one occasion, this happened when I was fully conscious
(actually walking down a street). On that occasion, it wasn't a phone
call, but was a meeting with several people and I heard several key
people discussing me.
The things they were discussing on all these occasions caught me
totally by surprise, which was one reason I didn't take any action.
I simply had never been in this sort of situation before and had no
idea what to do. It doesn't matter any more anyway, because a little
at a time things are working themselves out. People can really gum up
the works if they put their minds to it, but they've never been able
to stop me from getting where I'm supposed to be! And perhaps the
situation needed slowing down...
I also had clairvoyant-type dreams, but I don't believe they were true
clairvoyance. I was astrally with the person involved when events
happened. I've written in this file earlier about one major occasion
when someone's apartment building caught fire while I was with him and
he was evacuated from the building. I lost track of him briefly and then
caught up with him at a friends place, having coffee and discussing the
fire. Once I knew he was ok, I went back to his apartment and verified
that there was no damage. Then I woke up. All this was verified the
next day when he showed up at an event in his street clothes -- they had
not yet been allowed back in the building since the fire the night
before so he hadn't been able to change.
Mary
|
| 342.56 | Mutual dreaming? Maybe, maybe not.... | GIAMEM::ROSE | | Fri Feb 07 1992 07:23 | 41 |
|
re: .51 (Don)
An example of such an arrangement is discussed by LaBerge in "Lucid
Dreaming." (It was originally written up by Oliver Fox in his book
"Astral Projection.")
Three friends - Fox, Slade, and Elkington - agreed one night to try
to meet (in their dreams) on Southampton common. Fox and Slade both
dreamed and obtained lucidity, but Slade didn't dream at all. Fox
and Elkington dreamed that they met on the common, greeted each other,
commented on Slade's absence, and then the dreams ended.
LaBerge regrets that Fox didn't report the exact time of occurrence
of the two lucid dreams. He says that if Fox and Elkington were not
in REM sleep at the same time, it would favor the hypothesis of shared
dream plots rather than a shared dream or shared dream worlds. In
other words, one of them could have dreamed first; the other one could
have received the dream via telepathy and from that information could
have constructed his own dream from which Slade was also absent.
LaBerge proposes a test to decide the dubious matter of mutual dream-
ing. He would monitor two people in a sleep laboratory who have agreed
to meet in their lucid dreams and to signal simultaneously. ( Playing
upon the fact that eye muscles are not paralyzed during REM sleep, La-
Berg developed in 1979 a technique in which a lucid dreamer moved his
finger in a vertical line and followed it with his eyes. The resulting
line appeared as a large eye movement on the lab's polygraph record.)
LaBerge says, "...if they [the mutual lucid dreamers] did produce si-
multaneous eye-movement signals, we [would] have incontrovertable evi-
dence for the objective existence of the dream world. We would then
know that, in certain circumstances at least, dreams can be as objec-
tively real as the world of physics. This would finally raise the
question of whether physical reality is itself some kind of mutual
dream. Perhaps what really happens is the balanced result of a myriad
of interactions contributed by all of us dreaming the dream of consen-
sual reality."
Virginia
|
| 342.57 | | GIAMEM::ROSE | | Mon Feb 10 1992 07:59 | 17 |
|
re: .53 (Sherry)
It seems quite possible to me that you and your relatives have
inherited whatever it takes to *facilitate* the expression of
this ability. If someone *doesn't* have the ability to experience
precognitive hypnopompic imagery, I think we'd have to ask why he
or she doesn't. We might find that the ability was there, but that
its expression wasn't recognized as such, or that it had been experi-
enced but forgotten, or that it hadn't been switched on yet. It's
possible that a certain degree of emotional involvement is necessary
for it to occur. People who don't experience the imagery may be just
as involved, but they may be using a different outlet, or they may
have inhibitions that block or reroute the precognitive information.
Virginia
|
| 342.58 | | GIAMEM::ROSE | | Mon Feb 10 1992 09:57 | 44 |
| re: .54 (Mary)
Thanks to these new details, we can eliminate hypnopompic imagery,
which occurs as you're waking up. It's the hypnagogic imagery that
occurs as you're falling asleep - and until I can find a reference
to the contrary, I'll continue to include "auditory" as well as "vis-
ual" experiences in that imagery.
The fact that you heard the voices while awake and walking down the
street was similar to something reported by LaBerge in his discussion
of The Stages of Sleep. Laboratory subjects are hooked up to a poly-
graph machine that simultaneously records three parameters: brain waves
(EEG), eye movements (EOG), and muscle tension (EMG). To begin with,
subjects lie in bed in "Stage W" [awake], regardless of whether they
are relaxed, tense, terrified, or calm. "Surprisingly, in spite of be-
ing "awake" in both subjective and physiological terms, subjects not
infrequently recount vivid reveries when asked for reports of their
mental activity during Stage W."
Once drowsiness occurs (in the lab) the subjects enter into Stage 1
sleep, SEMs or slowly drifting eye movements occur, and it's here that
hypnagogic imagery may be reported. This is a very light stage of
sleep, and it lasts only a few minutes before Stage 2, a deeper sleep,
occurs. What you're describing on Saturdays appears to be Stage 1
sleep. The suddeness or urgency of the sleep onset interests me. It
wasn't because of narcolepsy, although there's a superficial resemblance
to that condition. I wonder if the circuits or other brain structures
that were either receiving and/or storing this conversational informa-
tion might have become overloaded, and in an effort to discharge their
information, activated the sleep response. If so, it might be possible
to artificially create a similar situation in a laboratory setting.
I don't see how your phone call, regardless of its results, could have
disproved the possibility of their phone call. Saturday could have
been the time when the *probability* of their phone call became a sure
thing, and it could have been this "sure thing" that you heard.
Sorry, but time has run out again....
Virginia
|
| 342.59 | Transcribed article. | CADSYS::COOPER | Topher Cooper | Thu Jun 18 1992 17:05 | 486 |
| The following article was posted over USENET.
Topher
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: karttu@mits.mdata.fi (Antti Karttunen)
Subject: Lucid Dreaming, article by Susan Blackmore from SI, Vol 15 Summer 1991
Date: 14 Jun 92 01:18:26 GMT
Organization: MITS, Helsinki, Finland
LUCID DREAMING: AWAKE IN YOUR SLEEP?
By Susan Blackmore
From Skeptical Inquirer, Vol. 15 Summer 1991
pages 362-370
What could it mean to be conscious in your dreams? For most
of us, dreaming is something quite separate from normal life.
When we wake up from being chased by a ferocious tiger, or
seduced by a devastatingly good-looking Nobel Prize winner
we realize with relief or disappointment that "it was only
a dream."
Yet there are some dreams that are not like that. Lucid
dreams are dreams in which you know at the time that you are
dreaming. That they are different from ordinary dreams is
obvious as soon as you have one. The experience is something
like waking up in your dreams. It is as though you "come to"
and find you are dreaming.
Lucid dreams used to be a topic within psychical research
and parapsychology. Perhaps their incomprehensibility made
them good candidates for being thought paranormal. More
recently, however, they have begun to appear in psychology
journals and have dropped out of parapsychology - a good
example of how the field of parapsychology shrinks when any
of its subject matter is actually explained.
Lucidity has also become something of a New Age fad. There
are machines and gadgets you can buy and special clubs you
can join to learn how to induce lucid dreams. But this
commercialization should not let us lose sight of the very
real fascination of lucid dreaming. It forces us to ask
questions about the nature of consciousness, deliberate
control over our actions, and the nature of imaginary worlds.
A Real Dream or Not?
The term lucid dreaming was coined by the Dutch psychiatrist
Frederik van Eeden in 1913. It is something of a misnomer
since it means something quite different from just clear or
vivid dreaming. Nevertheless we are certainly stuck with it.
Van Eeden explained that in this sort of dream "the
re-integration of the psychic functions is so complete that
the sleeper reaches a state of perfect awareness and is able
to direct his attention, and to attempt different acts of free
volition. Yet the sleep, as I am able confidently to state, is
undisturbed, deep, and refreshing."
This implied that there could be consciousness during sleep,
a claim many psychologists denied for more than 50 years.
Orthodox sleep researchers argued that lucid dreams could not
possibly be real dreams. If the accounts were valid, then the
experiences must have occurred during brief moments of
wakefulness or in the transition between waking and sleeping,
not in the kind of deep sleep in which rapid eye movements (REMs)
and ordinary dreams usually occur. In other words, they could
not really be dreams at all.
This presented a challenge to lucid dreamers who wanted to
convince people that they really were awake in their dreams.
But of course when you are deep asleep and dreaming you cannot
shout, "Hey! Listen to me. I'm dreaming right now." All the
muscles of the body are paralyzed.
It was Keith Hearne (1978), of the University of Hull, who
first exploited the fact that not all the muscles are paralyzed.
In REM sleep the eyes move. So perhaps a lucid dreamer could
signal by moving the eyes in a predetermined pattern. Just over
ten years ago, lucid dreamer Alan Worsley first managed this is
in Hearne's laboratory. He decided to move his eyes left and
right eight times in succession whenever he became lucid. Using
a polygraph, Hearne could watch the eye movements for sign of
the special signal. He found it in the midst of REM sleep. So
lucid dreams are real dreams and do occur during REM sleep.
Further research showed that Worsley's lucid dreams most
often occurred in the early morning, around 6:30 A.M., nearly
half an hour into a REM period and toward the end of a burst
of rapid eye movements. They usually lasted for two to five
minutes. Later research showed that they occur at times of
particularly high arousal during REM sleep (Hearne 1978).
It is sometimes said that discoveries in science happen when
the time is right for them. It was one of those odd things that
at just the same time, but unbeknown to Hearne, Stephen LaBerge,
at Stanford University in California, was trying the same
experiment. He too succeeded, but resistance to the idea was
very strong. In 1980, both Science and Nature rejected his first
paper on the discovery (LaBerge 1985). It was only later that it
became clear what an important step this had been.
An Identifiable State?
It would be especially interesting if lucid dreams were
associated with a unique physiological state. In fact this has
not been found, although this is not very surprising since the
same is true of other altered states, such as out-of-body
experiences and trances of various kinds. However, lucid dreams
do tend to occur in periods of higher cortical arousal. Perhaps
a certain threshold of arousal has to be reached before awareness
can be sustained.
The beginning of lucidity (marked by eye signals, of course)
is associated with pauses in breathing, brief changes in heart
rate, and skin response changes, but there is no unique
combination that allows the lucidity to be identified by an
observer.
In terms of the dream itself, there are several features that
seem to provoke lucidity. Sometimes heightened anxiety or stress
precedes it. More often there is a kind of intellectual
recognition that something "dreamlike" or incongruous is going
on (Fox 1962; Green 1968; LaBerge 1985).
It is common to wake from an ordinary dream and wonder, "How
on earth could I have been fooled into thinking that I was
really doing push-ups on a blue beach?" A little more awareness
is shown when we realize this in the dream. If you ask yourself,
"Could this be a dream?" and answer "No" (or don't answer at all),
this is called a pre-lucid dream. Finally, if you answer "Yes",
it becomes a fully lucid dream.
It could be that once there is sufficient cortical arousal it
is possible to apply a bit of critical thought; to remember
enough about how the world ought to be to recognize the dream
world as ridiculous, or perhaps to remember enough about oneself
to know that these events can't be continuous with normal waking
life. However, tempting as it is to conclude that the critical
insight produces the lucidity, we have only an apparent
correlation and cannot deduce cause and effect from it.
Becoming a Lucid Dreamer
Surveys have show that about 50 percent of people (and in some
cases more) have had at least one lucid dream in their lives.
(see, for example, Blackmore 1982; Gackenbach and LaBerge 1988;
Green 1968.) Of course surveys are unreliable in that many
people may not understand the question. In particular, if you
have never had a lucid dream, it is easy to misunderstand what
is meant by the term. So overestimates might be expected.
Beyond this, it does not seem that surveys can find out much.
There are no very consistent differences between lucid dreamers
and others in terms of age, sex, education, and so on (Green
1968; Gackenbach and LaBerge 1988).
For many people, having lucid dream is fun, and they want to
learn how to have more or to induce them at will. One finding
from early experimental work was that high levels of physical
(and emotional) activity during the day tend to precede lucidity
at night. Waking during the night and carrying out some kind of
activity before falling asleep again can also encourage a lucid
dream during the next REM period and is the basis of some
induction techniques.
Many methods have been developed (Gackenbach and Bosveld 1989;
Tart 1988; Price and Cohen 1988). They roughly fall into three
categories.
One of the best known is LaBerge's MILD (Mnemonic Induction
of Lucid Dreaming). This is done on waking in the early morning
from a dream. You should wake up fully, engage in some activity
like reading or walking about, and then lie down to go to sleep
again. Then you must imagine yourself asleep and dreaming,
rehearse the dream from which you woke, and remind yourself,
"Next time I dream this I want to remember I'm dreaming."
A second approach involves constantly reminding yourself to
become lucid throughout the day rather than the night. This is
based on the idea that we spend most of our time in a kind of
waking daze. If we could be more lucid in waking life, perhaps
we could be more lucid while dreaming. German psychologist
Paul Tholey suggests asking yourself many times every day,
"Am I dreaming or not?" This sound easy but is not. It takes
a lot of determination and persistence not to forget all about
it. For those who do forget, French researcher Clerc suggests
writing a large "C" on your hand (for "conscious") to remind
you (Tholey 1983; Gackenbach and Bosveld 1989).
This kind of method is similar to the age-old technique for
increasing awareness by meditation and mindfulness. Advanced
practitioners of meditation claim to maintain awareness through
a large proportion of their sleep. TM is often claimed to lead
to sleep awareness. So perhaps it is not surprising that some
recent research finds association between meditation and
increased lucidity (Gackenbach and Bosveld 1989).
The third and final approach requires a variety of gadgets.
The idea is to use some sort of external signal to remind
people, while they are actually in REM sleep, that they are
dreaming. Hearne first tried spraying water onto sleepers' faces
or hands but found it too unreliable. This sometimes caused them
to incorporate water imagery into their dreams, but they rarely
became lucid. He eventually decided to use a mild electrical
shock to the wrist. His "dream machine" detects changes in
breathing rate (which accompany the onset of REM) and then
automatically delivers a shock to the wrist (Hearne 1990).
Meanwhile, in California, LaBerge was rejecting taped voices
and vibrations and working instead with flashing lights. The
original version was laboratory based and used a personal
computer to detect the eye movements of REM sleep and to turn
on flashing lights whenever the REMs reached a certain level.
Eventually, however, all the circuitry was incorporated into
a pair of goggles. The idea is to put the goggles on at night,
and the lights will flash only when you are asleep and dreaming.
The user can even control the level of eye movements at which
the lights begin to flash.
The newest version has a chip incorporated into the goggles.
This will not only control the lights but will store data on
eye-movement density during the night and when and for how long
the lights were flashing, making fine tuning possible. At the
moment, the first users have to join in workshops at LaBerge's
Lucidity Institute and learn how to adjust the settings, but
within a few months he hopes the whole process will be fully
automated. (See LaBerge's magazine, DreamLight.)
LaBerge tested the effectiveness of the Dream Light on 44
subjects who came into the laboratory, most for just one night.
Fifty-five percent had at least one lucid dream this way. The
results suggested that this method is about as successful as
MILD, but using the two together is the most effective
(LaBerge 1985).
Lucid Dreams as an Experimental Tool
There are a few people who can have lucid dreams at will. And
the increase in induction techniques has provided many more
subjects who have them frequently. This has opened the way to
using lucid dreams to answer some of the most interesting
questions about sleep and dreaming.
How long do dreams take? In the last century, Alfred Maury
had a long and complicated dream that led to his being beheaded
by a guillotine. He woke up terrified, and found that the
headboard of his bed had fallen on his neck. From this, the
story goes, he concluded that the whole dream had been created
in the moment of awakening.
This idea seems to have got into popular folklore but was very
hard to test. Researchers woke dreamers at various stages of
their REM period and found that those who had been longer in REM
claimed longer dreams. However, accurate timing became possible
only when lucid dreamers could send "markers" from the dream
state.
LaBerge asked his subjects to signal when they became lucid
and then count a ten-second period and signal again. Their
average interval was 13 seconds, the same as they gave when
awake. Lucid dreamers, like Alan Worsley, have also been able
to give accurate estimates of the length of whole dreams or
dream segments (Schatzman, Worsley, and Fenwick 1988).
Dream Actions
As we watch sleeping animals it is often tempting to conclude
that they are moving their eyes in response to watching a dream,
or twitching their legs as they dream of chasing prey. But do
physical movements actually relate to the dream events?
Early sleep researchers occasionally reported examples like
a long series of left-right eye movements when a dreamer had
been dreaming of watching a ping-pong game, but they could do
no more than wait until the right sort of dream came along.
Lucid dreaming made proper experimentation possible, for the
subjects could be asked to perform a whole range of tasks in
their dreams. In one experiment with researchers Morton Schatzman
and Peter Fenwick, in London, Worsley planned to draw large
triangles and to signal with flicks of his eyes every time he
did so. While he dreamed, the electromyogram, recording small
muscle movements, showed not only the eye signals but spikes
of electrical activity in the right forearm just afterward.
This showed that the preplanned actions in the dream produced
corresponding muscle movements (Schatzman, Worsley, and Fenwick
1988).
Further experiments, with Worsley kicking dream objects,
writing with umbrellas, and snapping his fingers, all confirmed
that the muscles of the body show small movements corresponding
to the body's actions in the dream. The question about eye
movements was also answered. The eyes do track dream objects.
Worsley could even produce slow scanning movements, which are
very difficult to produce in the absence of a "real" stimulus
(Schatzman, Worsley, and Fenwick 1988).
LaBerge was especially interested in breathing during dreams.
This stemmed from his experiences at age five when he had
dreamed of being an undersea pirate who could stay under water
for very long periods without drowning. Thirty years later he
wanted to find out whether dreamers holding their breath in
dreams do so physically as well. The answer was yes. He and
other lucid dreamers were able to signal from the dream and
then hold their breath. They could also breathe rapidly in
their dreams, as revealed on the monitors. Studying breathing
during dreamed speech, he found that the person begins to
breathe out at the start of an utterance just as in real speech
(LaBerge and Dement 1982a).
Hemispheric Differences
It is known that the left and right hemispheres are activated
differently during different kinds of tasks. For example,
singing uses the right hemisphere more, while counting and
other, more analytical tasks use the left hemisphere more. By
using lucid dreams, LaBerge was able to find out whether the
same is true in dreaming.
In one dream he found himself flying over a field. (Flying
is commonly associated with lucid dreaming.) He signaled with
his eyes and began to sing "Row, row, row your boat...."
He then made another signal and counted slowly to ten before
signaling again. The brainwave records showed just the same
patterns of activation that you would expect if he had done
these tasks while awake (LaBerge and Dement 1982b).
Dream Sex
Although it is not often asked experimentally, I am sure plenty
of people have wondered what is happening in their bodies while
they have their most erotic dreams.
LaBerge tested a woman who could dream lucidly at will and
could direct her dreams to create the sexual experiences she
wanted. (What a skill!) Using appropriate physiological
recording, he was able to show that her dream orgasms were
matched by true orgasms (LaBerge, Greenleaf, and Kedzierski
1983).
Experiments like these show that there is a close
correspondence between actions of the dreamer and, if not real
movements, at least electrical responses. This puts lucid
dreaming somewhere between real actions, in which muscles work
to move the body, and waking imagery, in which they are rarely
involved at all. So what exactly is the status of the dream
world?
The Nature of the Dream World
It is tempting to think that the real world and the world of
dreams are totally separate. Some of the experiments already
mentioned show that there is no absolute dividing line. There
are also plenty of stories that show the penetrability of the
boundary.
Alan Worsley describes one experiment in which his task was
to give himself a prearranged number of small electric shocks
by means of a machine measuring his eye movements. He went to
sleep and began dreaming that it was raining and he was in a
sleeping bag by a fence with gate in it. He began to wonder
whether he was dreaming and thought it would be cheating to
activate the shocks if he was awake. Then, while making the
signals, he worried about the machine, for it was out there
with him in the rain and might get wet (Schatzman, Worsley,
and Fenwick 1988).
This kind of interference is amusing, but there are dreams
of confusion that are not. The most common and distinct are
called false awakenings. You dream of waking up but in fact,
of course, are still asleep. Van Eeden (1913) called these
"wrong waking up" and described them as "demoniacal, uncanny,
and very vivid and bright, with ... a strong diabolical light."
The French zoologist Yves Delage, writing in 1919, described
how he had heard a knock at his door and a friend calling for
his help. He jumped out of bed, went to wash quickly with cold
water, and when that woke him up he realized he had been
dreaming. The sequence repeated four times before he finally
actually woke up - still in bed.
A student of mine described her infuriating recurrent dream
of getting up, cleaning her teeth, getting dressed, and then
cycling all the way to the medical school at the top of a long
hill, where she finally would realize that she had dreamed it
all, was late for lectures, and would have to do it all over
again for real.
The one positive benefit of false awakenings is that they can
sometimes be used to induce out-of-body-experiences (OBEs).
Indeed, Oliver Fox (1962) recommends this as a method for
achieving the OBE. For many people OBEs and lucid dreams are
practically indistinguishable. If you dream of leaving your
body, the experience is much the same. Also recent research
suggests that the same people tend to have both lucid dreams
and OBEs (Blackmore 1988, Irwin 1988).
All of these experiences have something in common. In all
of them the "real" world has been replaced by some kind of
imaginary replica. Celia Green, of the Institute of
Psychophysical Research at Oxford, refers to all such states
as "metachoric experiences."
Jayne Gackenbach, a psychologist from the University of
Alberta, Canada, relates these experiences to UFO-abduction
stories and near-death-experiences (NDEs). The UFO abductions
are the most bizarre but are similar in that they too involve
the replacement of the perceived world by a hallucinatory
replica.
There is an important difference between lucid dreams and
these other states. In the lucid dream one has insight into
the state (in fact that defines it). In false awakening, one
does not (again by definition). In typical OBEs, people think
they have really left their bodies. In UFO "abductions" they
believe the little green men are "really there"; and in NDEs,
they are convinced they are rushing down a real tunnel toward
a real light and into the next world. It is only in the lucid
dream that one realizes it is a dream.
I have often wondered whether insight into these other
experiences is possible and what the consequences might be.
So far I don't have any answers.
Waking Up
The oddest thing about lucid dreams - and, to many people who
have them, the most compelling - is how it feels when you wake
up. Upon waking up from a normal dream, you usually think,
"Oh, that was only a dream." Waking up from a lucid dream is
more continuous. It feels more real, it feels as though you
were conscious in the dream. Why is this? I think the reason can
be found by looking at the mental models the brain constructs
in waking, in ordinary dreaming, and in lucid dreams.
I have previously argued that what seems real is the most
stable mental model in the system at any time. In waking life,
this is almost always the input-driven model, the one that is
built up from the sensory input. It is firmly linked to the
body image to make a stable model of "me, here, now." It is
easy to decide that this represents "reality" while all the
other models being used at the same time are "just imagination"
(Blackmore 1988).
Now consider an ordinary dream. In that case there are lots
of models being built but no input-driven model. In addition
there is no adequate self-model or body image. There is just
not enough access to memory to construct it. This means, if my
hypothesis is right, that whatever model is most stable at any
time will seem real. But there is no recognizable self to whom
it seems real. There will just be a series of competing models
coming and going. Is this what dreaming feels like?
Finally, we know from research that in the lucid dream there
is higher arousal. Perhaps this is sufficient to construct a
better model of self. It is one that includes such important
facts as that you have gone to sleep, that you intended to
signal with your eyes, and so on. It is also more similar to
the normal waking self than those fleeting constructions of
the ordinary dream. This, I suggest, is what makes the dream
seem more real on waking up. Because the you who remembers
the dream is more similar to the you in the dream. Indeed,
because there was a better model of you, you were more
conscious.
If this is right, it means that lucid dreams are potentially
even more interesting than we thought. As well as providing
insight into the nature of sleep and dreams, they may give
clues to the nature of consciousness itself.
References
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--------- 1988. A Theory of lucid dreams and OBEs.
In Conscious Mind, Sleeping Brain, 373-387, ed.
J. Gackenbach and S. LaBerge. New York: Plenum.
Delage, Y. 1919. Le Reve. Paris: Les Presses Universitaires de
France.
Fox, O. 1962. Astral Projection. New York: University Books.
Gackenbach, J., and J. Bosveld. 1989. Control Your Dreams.
New York: Harper & Row.
Gackenbach, J., and S. LaBerge, eds. 1988. Conscious Mind,
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Green, C. E. 1968. Lucid Dreams. London: Hamish Hamilton.
Hearne, K. 1978. Lucid Dreams: An Electrophysiological and
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singing and counting during REM sleep.
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Susan J. Blackmore is with the Perceptual Systems Research Centre,
Department of Psychology, University of Bristol, and the School
of Social Sciences, University of Bath.
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