Conference hydra::dejavu

	I agree completely, Steve.  Inquiry into psychic phenomena is one
thing but irresponsible experimentation is another.  

	Hypnotism is very dangerous and should be handled with care.  When you
tamper with someones basic foundation you could cause the whole house to fall
in.  

	I do think that investigation of the unknown in any area calls for a
certain degree of courage.  And I think this is especially true of psychic
phenomena.   But one must be sure that what they do they will be responsible
for.  what you may gain should be proportional to the risk you take.  So try
to keep in mind that if you are looking for secrets or powers that will change
the world that you may indeed be taking the chance that you will change the
world but for the worse not the better.

****carefull****carefull****carefull****

	I know that I will never stop looking for answers to all these
questions but I will make every effort to concider all the consequences.


							Jorge'

re .1:  

My caution was very straightforward because of a resurgance of Satan worship.
As I pointed out in another note, Faust sold his soul for Knowledge and Power.
>What you may gain should be proportional to the risk you take.
A good observation, roughly translated "You get what you pay for."  However,
any consumer knows you can get less than you pay for.  An example of how some-
one can be led down the primrose (widdershins) path:  In the Natick, Mass. 
area, a newspaper reported traces of a Satanic rite (to the technical: It 
was a Circle of Invocation, unusual but legitimate design, and from the
picture it was impossible to tell the orientation nor the presence or absence
of ancillary Circles).  About a year later, the same paper reported an ani-
mal mutilation at a local farm in the Natick area.  From the trports, it was
obviously ritualistic and seemed Satanic, from its nature (cuts, missing goat
kid); that correlates with the paper's previous reports.  I sent a note to
the editor, incloding a printout of an Associated Press release reporting on
widespread Satan worship in rural Ohio.  I got a call from another reporter,
who said, "The reporter you sent the letter to is no longer with the paper.
I'm taking over her spot."  After asking me a few questions, he said, "I'd
really like to meet a coven.  Do you know where any are?"  Obviously, he was
fascinated with the idea of Satanic witchcraft.  And in my opinion, from the
tone in his voice, he would have been an easy recruit.

Evil, through power, can be very seductive; tht's a great danger.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

"What you send out, comes back to you three-fold."

I've seen variations of this as a warning in a lot of different philosophys. A
very good tenet to remember in any experimentation, particularly in the realms
we're talking about.

Tamzen 

An addendum to the above:

	Note #43, "A Strange Personal Aura," is illustrative of what I've
been trying to say, in two ways.
	First, the writer of the note underwent something sinister because of
a person he met who, from what was said, dabbled in areas that could at least
be called unwholseome.
	Second, the victimizer could have set himself up to become what ap-
parently he became.
	If ill-informed experimenting by the victimizer led him to the state
where he was in, the results not only affected him, but innocent second par-
ties as well.
	Putting one's soul in jeopardy to "solve a problem" creates a greater
problem than any other one is trying to solve.

Steve Kallis, Jr.

    Caution being a good watchword, does anyone have protection rituals
    they use/recommend when or before engaging in their experiments?
    My own ritual, which I engage in when I've been having a slew of
    dreams involving the Hag in the Night, involves first relaxing,
    then descending through the levels of my being until I am centered
    (the imagery my mind comes up with always puts me in a cave with
    wonderful crystal formations twinkling in the walls as the symbol
    of my Center) and then envisioning a sphere of silver surrounding
    me, protecting me from all harm.  As this circle forms, I repeat
    the word "Protect" until it appears good and solid.  If I am with
    another person (my husband on the other side of the bed, an
    astrological client, friends I am driving in my car) I include them
    in the circle.
    
    With the Hag in the Night dreams, this seems to work very nicely.
    I don't know if this is placebo effect, or actual psychic protection,
    but all I care about is--it works.
    
    Anyone else do something similar, especially before doing Tarot
    readings for people, or performing other psychic work?
    
    Marcia

    Very good!
    
    Some prefer the following:
    
    At the area where you plan to rest (or whatever), take a knife
    (preferably used for no other purpose) and hold it blade up before
    you, facing East.  Picture in your mind the knife absorbing positive
    (white) evergy until it glows.  Then visualize the blade stretching
    until it's the equivalent of a sword of flame.  Trace a circle around
    your area to be protected, clockwise, visualizing a small residual
    trail of flames in its "trace."  Close the circle, then visualize
    the flames of the circle rising to form a protective barrier through
    which nothing evil can pass.  Then visualize the knife returning
    to normal.
    
    That should be good for Tarot readings.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    
    P.S.: If JudeoChristian, the 23rd Psalm can be contemplated while
    tracing the circle.
    
    -SK
    

    I use a white light/crystal combo for protection in Tarot readings.
    I center myself in my quartz point, clear all with white light/energy.
    I also use a smoky quartz for grounding (particularly when reading
    in public places) and amythest for enlightenment.  This gives me
    a buffer, grounding, and yet leaves me receptive.  (all this developed
    after a rather bad backlash during a tarot reading).  I strongly
    recommend protection to anyone and everyone, but there are receptive
    and non-receptive ears, as we all know.
    
    Dave

    Re:  crystal use
    
    Do you actually have these crystals, that you hold in your hand
    or meditate upon, or do you just visualise them?
    
    Marcia

    RE: .6
    
    I use essentially this ritual.  If for one reason or other this
    can't be done, no knife, one is in public, etc., it will suffice
    to visualize this ritual.
    
    Another important aspect to this is to ask for protection from the
    God(s) you worship.
    
    As a side note, this ritual is used in reverse to protect from evil
    when doing evil.  By reverse I mean start at the west, and trace
    the circle counter clockwise.
    
    Kathleen

    re .9:
    
    But it's not a good idea ever to practice evil, as I'm sure Kathleen
    agrees.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    I actually have these crystals. My smokey quartz goes almost everywhere
    I go.  At approx. $.10/carat, it's a nice talisman.  My quartz crystal
    is a doubly terminated crystal, given to me by my Tarot class, so
    it has a lot of good energy.  My amythest is a tumbled stone also
    given to me, but actually inexpensive to purchase.  Oh, yeah, the
    smokey quartz is a cut (square cut) crystal.
    
    I usually have them with me all the time.  If I do, I hold them.
    Otherwise I visualize them, but I think I don't drop as many barriers
    as if they are present.
    
    Dave

    RE: 10
    
    Steve,
    
    I don't think that one SHOULD practice anything resembling evil
    but if one is goint to do so one should DEFINITELY protect oneself.
    
    Kathleen

    Re circles and crystal;
    	The use or circles of flame can be extremely dangerous depending
    on exactally how "good" one is with them. Flames (fire) are inherently
    a random process (a hot process) and as such can be associated with
    un-predictable results. In my own mind this randomness is associated
    with evil {yeah I frequently equate chaos with evil}.
    	Crystals on the other hand are a "cold" or ordered process.
    Creating in the mind an image of "order" (or logic) will almost
    always bring one back to the "real" world.
    					/s/ Terry {new to this file}
    

While I agree that fire can be dangerous (just as earth, air, and water can be),
I'd  suggest that you use caution when equating chaos with evil ... entropy is a
basic "reality" of the universe.

Will Craven, a  friend  of  mine  at  Howard  University  (a  tenured  assistant
professor  of computer science with a B.S. in electrical engineering, an M.S. in
math, and an A.B.D. in something ... probably math), speculates that the  social
and political disorder in the world may be a result of ourselves and our systems
trying to impose too much order (the chaos has to come out somewhere ... entropy
will  not be denied).  Since "Craven's Law of the Conservation of Entropy" makes
a strange sort of sense, I tend to be careful about desiring order.

Terry

    I received what I though was an excellent piece of advice for anyone
    interested in indulging in psychic/psychological experimentation.
    The advice was simple:  treat your vehicle (your physical body)
    with proper respect and care.  This means good, nutritious food,
    plenty of sleep, physical exercise and whatever other ablutions
    your body likes.
    
    The person stressed the importance of proper psychological grounding
    when opening up psychically.  He didn't advocate any bodily
    stressors trying to shock one's self into a higher state of
    consciousness.  No weird diets, fasts, chemicals, sleep deprivation,
    physical ordeals.  Making a ritual of tending to the physical body,
    as well as grounding mental/meditative exercises before psychic
    work will help keep you rooted even as your spirit may roam.  Put
    another way, your kite can fly higher, and you can get it back for
    future flights, if you and your string are good and strong and you
    pack enough mass for the law of gravity to work for you.
    
    It strikes me that this is good advice for people in conventional
    therapy as well.  Certainly confronting inner turmoil consciously
    can be extremely taxing; perhaps the people who feel they are not
    helped by therapy are not trying to ensure the best conditions for
    that help?
    
    Marcia

    re .15:
    
    A sound mind in a healthy body is a good aphorism.  Acrtually, for
    any such work, it seems odd that the same folk who perscribe, say,
    a ritual bath will also perscribe a ritual fast.  
    
    On the other hand, satiety can dull the instincts.  I wouldn't suggest,
    therefore, pigging out just before doing something that requires
    full concentration.  But a moderate meal an hour before wouldn't
    hurt; fasting might.
    
    Same goes for other preparations.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Re: 16
    
    Satiety was not what I had in mind.  I just like (and seem to need,
    being very earthy) my three modest squares a day, my 7-8 hours a
    night, my 1/2 hour of exertions a day, and my daily earthly routine.
    It was refreshing to meet someone who affirmed what I'd felt
    instinctively for some time--that maintaining these practices was
    a help, not a hindrance, to spiritual/psychic development.  I had
    assumed for many years that I was "unfit" to be spiritual/psychic
    because of my affinity for the ground.  The comments from Chuck
    Hitchcock about gardening and connections with the earth as a solid
    base from which to begin to perceive the "ordinary" magic of life
    makes sense to me, too.
    
    And on the lighter side, it occurs to me to doubt whatever I perceive
    when I'm in a state of physical depletion, because the perceptions
    could be physically based, and not psychic at all.  If I'm empty,
    is it the ether calling, or just my brain for more blood sugar?
    
    Marcia

    Before doing any psychic work, I always ground myself and surround
    myself with a white light.
    
    This involves imagining your body being rooted solidly to the earth.
    You can use whatever image you like.  I use either tree roots or
    solid steel from my spine going deep into the center of the earth.
    I also imagine my body being surrounded by a white protective light.
    
    I also agree with the last two notes.  Being mentally and physically
    healthy and strong is important. 

    I also am beginning to think that being mentally and physically
    strong is important from the standpoint that certain psychic
    disciplines do involve preparations that are stressful.  Fasting
    could be one example.  If one is sick one's body will tend to want 
    to employ the fast as a cleansing regimen, not as a heightener of 
    psychic abilities.  If I am exhausted, meditation exercises put
    me to sleep (maybe that's why one should meditate at dawn?).  Just 
    as I cannot maintain the stress of an exercise regimen unless I 
    take care of myself, so I would not expect to be able to perform 
    psychic feats if I don't take care of myself.
    
    Marcia

    Re "taking care":
    
    See also note 316.1
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    
    Could someone tell us why 12.21 was set hidden?
    

>    Could someone tell us why 12.21 was set hidden?
    
I set that response hidden at the request of the author.

		Dave

    Are all "covens" considered to be evil?  or can a "coven" be a group
    meditation for, say, peace on Earth, or fertility for the Planet
    so that we all may have good, wholesome food?
    
    I have been through a most intense past year.  I was at Loose Ends,
    having lost a job I loved, for no apparent reason; I'd spent nine
    years at a career, and this was the third job lost despite good
    reviews from superiors and good earnings in the books, due to my
    efforts.  (I believe now I was simply in the wrong career; so much
    for 4 years of college and five years' experience). (PATIENCE!!)
    Because of my state of confusion, lack of self-faith and depression,
    I was easy prey for a woman who, at first, seemed to be able to
    teach me a great deal about my own psychic abilities.  Several months
    later, I snapped out of what had seemed like a deep sleep; as if
    the truth hit me like a ton of bricks.  This woman brainwashed me
    through diet (I was only eating grains at her suggestion, and taking
    a LOT of herbs that interfere with normal digestion and sleep, also
    at her suggestion, and here I thought I was going to get healthy
    through this) and sleep.  She took my best crystals, especially
    the ones that vibrate with the higher chakras (clear quartz, amethyst;
    she also took a rainbow agate {VERY rare} and bloodstone).  She
    gave me a lot of "things", most of which I had to throw away.  I
    know of two other women she influenced such as she did me; since
    they have left her, one is becoming stronger all the time, and the
    other is getting better, although more slowly and with more anger
    (she was the brunt of much of their negative thinking, and they
    still attack her psychically whenever they can).
    
    I have friends doing protective rituals for me, and I do these for
    myself, as well; on the first anniversary of our meeting, a protective
    altar which I had set up had pieces move and fall over.  I carry
    at least one clear quartz crystal with me at all times.
    
    A warning;  Know yourself and your power, for if you do not, someone
    ELSE will recognize these, and may try to take them away.  (A good
    teacher will turn you ON to yourself).
    
    The woman who is recovering more slowly mentioned to me that not
    all covens are Satanic, which brings forth my question.  Perhaps
    she was referring simply to a "circle", not a "coven".  Thoughts?
    
    Also, if you've anything to share on how I might make the protection
    stronger so that my altar doesn't move about, suggest away!
    
    To go into the details of this story would take several pages, but
    that ought to cover the basics.  What really brought me out of my
    "deep sleep" was a meditation  I had with my Saturn figure (I use
    a meditation in which each planetary aspect of my horoscope is
    visualized as a "person"; I open the meditation by finding my "inner
    guide" or "mediator" or "guardian angel", who keeps that aspect/person
    from blowing any of my circuits); she told me that the power which
    I saw in this lady was my own; that I was projecting it, and she
    was sucking it off of me, and that I better realize it as my own.
    
    Thanks for your input...
    Meredith

    Reply to .24, Meredith, (I have to make some assumptions here so please
    correct me if need be B^)
    
    Coven is the word generally used to mean a small, tight group of people
    that practice the Craft and Goddess religion. Within this meaning the
    word tends to be exclusive as to groups that don't practice the Craft
    and Goddess religion. Here I exclude Satanic groups because (1) they
    appropriated the word coven from Church history, which assigned the
    word to describe groups which were prohibited, and (2) they don't
    practice Goddess religion, Satan being male. Satanists may indeed
    practice a craft, but we're not sure what that craft is. They may
    call their groups whatever they want. Satanic covens and Craft covens
    aren't the same.
    
    On the otherside of the fence the "Craft" may be an invention of the
    19th century and Satanic Witchcraft may be an invention of the 20th.
    Coven then may have a different meaning depending upon if one believes
    that todays Witchcraft is a survival of something more ancient.
    
    Personally I think that what we have today is a new process, a new
    beginning much different from what our so called grandmothers did
    and believed. Even the Satanic churches recognize the process of
    evolution and a new branch of Satanism arose under the name of the
    "Church of the Process".
    
    Just what is the Craft and Goddess religion deserves topics of their
    own. 
    
    Covens can serve you well, serve you poorly or not serve you at
    all. Power over people lurk everywhere. 
                          
    Circles are more relaxed generally. My group is a circle. We tend
    to be gentle and funny anarchists bent upon having more fun.
    Seriousness tends to be outlawed in Columbine. The only real rule
    is to have no rules. Still there are serious circles so don't let
    me assassinate their charactors. B^)
    
    Covens tend to be Craft and Goddess centered, circles tend to be
    more neo-Pagan.  I'm not sure what you were in. Perhaps you were
    in a teacher-student relationship or a small circle.
    
    Anyone can be a psychic vampire and a teacher that is a psychic vampire
    is real drain on their students. Infact that attribute may have been
    passed on to you un/knowingly.  You need to be doing the protective
    rituals yourself as nothing works better than a good shield that you
    throw up yourself. Don't depend upon others, that's what your teacher
    did. Protective rituals are easily found in many of the books
    available. Perhaps others in Dejavu can recommend somethings for you.
    
    My guess is that there is a small psychic energy channel open between
    you and your teacher. I'd work on closing and then *eliminating* that
    channel entirely. It's not enough to close it. Try some banishing
    rituals. Using your will squeeze the channel till it closes and then
    severe it, retracting your end of the connection until the "pigtail" of
    psychic energy is entirely within you. It may take a few times to teach
    the innerself *not* to re-establish the connection (at a later date).
    
    You seem to have done well in escaping these bonds. Congratulations,
    and I hope that you can get over the betrayal. It would take me a
    while.. B^)

    Re .24 (Meredith):
    
    >Are all "covens" considered to be evil?  or can a "coven" be a group
    >meditation for, say, peace on Earth, or fertility for the Planet
    >so that we all may have good, wholesome food?
    
    "Coven" comes from the same root as "convention," and thus, loosely,
    _can_ mean any small group that gets together formally for a specific
    purpose [e.g., a political "coven" to work towards the election
    of a ward captain. :-)].  However, in metaphysical circles, it's
    usually restricted to groups that get together for magical acts,
    meditation, etc..  In the popular press, it's more or less been
    identified with Satanic witches, but what does the popular press
    know?
    
    >I was easy prey for a woman who, at first, seemed to be able to
    >teach me a great deal about my own psychic abilities.  Several months
    >later, I snapped out of what had seemed like a deep sleep; as if
    >the truth hit me like a ton of bricks.  This woman brainwashed me
    >through diet (I was only eating grains at her suggestion, and taking
    >a LOT of herbs that interfere with normal digestion and sleep, also
    >at her suggestion, and here I thought I was going to get healthy
    >through this) and sleep.  She took my best crystals, especially
    >the ones that vibrate with the higher chakras (clear quartz, amethyst;
    >she also took a rainbow agate {VERY rare} and bloodstone).  She
    >gave me a lot of "things", most of which I had to throw away.
     
    Kallis' First Law: Keep an open mind, but not so open your brains
    fall out.  You were very lucky to snap out of it; caution is the
    watchword in these things.
    
    >(she was the brunt of much of their negative thinking, and they
    >still attack her psychically whenever they can).
    
    Who attacks whom?  I'm confused.  If it's the victims attacking
    the person who victimized you, tell them to be careful: some folk
    feed off such energies, and it does nothing for the victims' spiritual
    growth.  If they _must_ do something, reflective shields are better.
    
    Re .25 (Mikie?):
    
    > .................Here I exclude Satanic groups because (1) they
    >appropriated the word coven from Church history, which assigned the
    >word to describe groups which were prohibited, and (2) they don't
    >practice Goddess religion, Satan being male. Satanists may indeed
    >practice a craft, but we're not sure what that craft is.  ...
    
    It's well, though, to keep in mind that they _do_ call their
    get-togethers by some of the same names that people practicing the
    Craft do.  It's the reverse of the weitch issue: to the public,
    all witches are Satanic (where in reality, most aren't); and to
    many practitioners of the Craft, all covens....
    
    >Personally I think that what we have today is a new process, a new
    >beginning much different from what our so called grandmothers did
    >and believed.   
    
    Geez, Mikie?, I dunno about you, but _I_ had grandmothers.  Two of
    'em. :-D                                
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    re: 12.25
    
    thanks a lot for your response (thanks to you too, Steve)!! I am
    certain that there is still a channel open; for a while after I
    severed the earth-plane contact, I was having strange dreams in
    which they (Colleen, her lover Terry, and her friend Ruth) were
    searching for me and I could hear them using their best mental
    manipulation about how I could never get away; I made a conscious
    decision that, if they were to get into my dreams again, I would
    take on an aggressive role; I have only had two dreams about them
    since; in the first, I attacked them verbally and told them to get
    out; in the second, I had all shields up and merely stood my ground,
    and they couldn't get through to me; their words and acts did not
    penetrate my shield.  I am now going over the things that happened
    with them in my mind, taking lessons of value and understanding
    the rest in a new light; more and more it is evident to me that
    they are Dark side.  Janice is one of the women I mentioned who
    they still attack psychically, but not as often any more;  she is
    Terry's ex-wife; in order to save herself from their repeated attacks,
    she had to resort to a ritual act of violence in which she told
    them on a psychic level that if they messed with her any more, she
    would shoot them.  Only at this time did she get any relief from
    their attacks, and this ritual she did has acted as protection ever
    since.
    
    Is there a good method to close down the channel?  I'm reaching
    the point now where I've gone over things enough to be ready to
    completely walk away from the experience;  I have the lessons I
    need from the experience; I've recovered on a psychic level a lot
    of what they had tried to suck from me.  I didn't want to just block
    out the experience without a complete understanding, because it
    would come back to haunt me sooner or later...but I feel I have
    that understanding now.  Two wounds which I incurred while I was
    with them were "healed" but not completely by Colleen, so that she
    could still have a way in to my energies;  that is being taken care
    of now, as well.  Perhaps I am already doing the right thing to
    close the channel down; it took time to build, so perhaps it needs
    time to destroy.  Patience...(and I want it NOW!! ;-) )
    
    I do hope that this will serve to make even one person a bit more
    conscious...the time to really take care of yourself and believe
    in yourself is the time when you might be infused with the most
    doubt about yourself.  Find your Center; know who you really are;
    know your Essence, and trust that small voice of your conscience.
    That's the same as Trusting Yourself...if you don't know your Center,
    if you don't trust yourself, it is easy for a vampire to suck your
    energy.  And it takes a lot to recover from that.  *But it CAN be
    done!*
    
    Meredith

    Reply to .27, Meredith,
    
    I suggest a grounding ritual, which I think has been posted elsewhere.
    Since you want to walk away you probably don't need a mirror ritual.
    I don't have any grounding rituals to quote but Steve may have.
    B^)
    
    The inner self is very unsophisticated and tends to do things that it
    has been trained to do, ie, maintain a link to a previously
    comefortable space. It may take sometime to retrain the innerself
    not to reopen the channel after you have closed it.
    
    I would first visualize a white spiraling channel in the direction of
    you antagonists and then using your powers of visualization, pinch the
    channel till it separates, then pull the connection back into you field
    of existence. After you've done this you can check periodicly to see if
    the channel is out and open again with you minds eye. If it's out pinch
    it again. After a while you'll no longer have an exposed channel. Will
    is the key here. Work up your will, run the visualization and the inner
    self will understand better. 
    
    Anyone else have any suggestions?

    Mikie?'s reference to mirror rituals gave me this idea.  I don't
    know what formal mirror ritual visualization involves, but I do
    "mirror me" visualizations often, to help get my inner self and
    my will working together, whether it's affirmations, physical healing,
    getting behind a purpose, whatever.  I developed this technique,
    incidentally, by working with self-hypnosis.
    
    The structure of the dialogue runs like this:  After entering the
    trance state, I visualize a blank mirror springing up, call to the
    name I've come to call my inner self, and then wait for my face
    and body to appear in the mirror.  Then the dialoging occurs.  If
    doing affirmations, "I" repeat them first, my mirror self repeats
    them, then we repeat them together.  If doing healing, I have my
    mirror self step out of the glass and I run my hands over and through
    her, cleaning out whatever symbols of physical/emotional/psychic
    gunk my subconscious displays to me, and drop them into a fire I've
    visualized for the purpose; it's really surprising what I've cleaned
    out!
    
    The final, and for me, critical, phase of the ritual is that when
    the work is done I hold out my arms and embrace the mirror me. 
    She and I become a single, fused being; and I suddenly find myself
    standing alone, mirror and other things vanished, but feeling newly
    whole and complete and infused with purpose, better health, whatever.
    Then I awaken myself from the trance.
    
    If I were trying to sever a psychic link between me and another,
    I'd probably try the Mirror Me ritual, and have her step forth,
    visualize what the bond looked like (I'd let my own subconscious
    create the symbol), sever it (with a tool I'd let the subconscious
    select) and then heal the wound in the mirror self.  I'd be prepared
    for her to be traumatized, just like anyone undergoing "surgery"
    (my own mirror self has cried, raged, trembled, thrashed, screamed,
    even fainted when we did serious healing work) and do my best to
    soothe and comfort her.  I might add some affirmations afterward
    about wholeness, inner completeness, and ability to keep the wound
    closed and healed for good measure, then join us together.
    
    Here's to the success of both your esoteric and mundane efforts;
    I hope the year to come is a better, more strengthening one.
    
    Marcia

    Try using Hathor's mirror instead of your mirror self.  The Egyptian
    Goddess will reflect all energy back to the sender, both good and
    bad without touching you.

    Hathor's mirror is what I believe Mikie was reccomending.  What people
    are sending you, send back. 
    
    Please resist the temptation to "help things along".  If you start
    sending out negatives to your enemies, you will have the repercussions
    of that return to you. 
    
    I know of one case where person X was psychicly attacking person Y.
    Person Y put up mirror shields.  Person X started complaining that
    person Y was attacking *them*, pointing to all the negative things that
    were happening to them, and not person Y.  Moral here is to be prepared
    for your enemies slandering you. 
    
    Elizabeth
    

    Reply to .21, Elizabeth,
    
    Good reason to use a grounding action in this case then...

    It kind of depends on what you want to accomplish...
    
    Reflection is perfect justice.
    
    Grounding is perfect mercy.
    
    There is also the possibility of accepting the energy, turning it
    into something useful, and using it.  Kind of frustrating for the
    attacker.
    
    Elizabeth

    I've just now read the past few responses.  Thanks to everyone for
    caring enough about the situation to take the time and respond.
    
    I went to the land of my birth for New Year's, and gathered some
    energy there.  I got a distinct message to clean out items in my
    apartment that I thought had been cleared, that these people had
    given me.  I guess they weren't as "cleared" as I had thought. When
    I cleaned out my place, I couldn't *believe* how much more they
    had left behind than I had realized.  Tonight, on the Full Moon,
    I will be doing the physical plane purge (taking all of those items
    they'd given and cutting energy attachments to them, and probably
    giving them away to charity); afterward, I will follow some of the very
    creative and useful meditations aforementioned.  A couple of friends
    are helping me with this, and will work with me on shielding, since,
    to my knowledge, these people obtained some of my hair.  I am looking
    for bond severation.
    
    I am looking forward to a wonderful year.  I am confident that the
    goodness in me will prevail...*is* prevailing...and that this
    experience will help me to better know how to protect and help myself
    (and therefore, others!).  I'm also not as ignorant as I used to
    be, nor am I as quick to trust that with which I am not familiar.
    I *should have* listened more closely to my own, inner voice.  I
    hope to encourage others to listen to theirs.
    

 Like many people who have had psychic experiences I started to question
my beliefs.In my search for the truth I exposed myself to numerous belief
systems.Some of the belief systems were beautiful I wanted to see the world
through some of the beliefs and I started to accept some of them.Slowly
and with out realizing it I was accepting more and more beliefs with less
and less personal proof of their validity. I was getting to the point that
if it felt good I would believe it.I had left the path of true understanding
and was well out into the picky bushes before I realized it.I was lost
confused and dam scared.Conflicting beliefs clashed, in mental anguish I
tried to figure out which beliefs were the true ones.Finally I realized that
this was a hopeless task.How could I through reason distinguish a
correct belief, if there was one, from a group of beliefs I had accepted
without a sound reason.To get back on the path of true understanding I
had to back track.Sounds easy but it is a painful and long process, it is 
hard to give up emotionally supportive beliefs and replace them with I
do not know.I now feel I am back on the path and wanted to pass on 
a potential pitfall of seeking the truth to hard.The world and its truth
are always there, do not rush.Remember to have sound reasons for what you 
believe, otherwise you may be finding yourself lost in the picky bushes.
If you do find yourself lost, back track until you are back on solid ground.


                  So many answers to the same questions
                  and such a need to know,
                  but in certainty and confidence
                  I say I do not know.
  
                            George D.

    So, how did you determine which beliefs were the right ones?
    
    Elizabeth

re: .36
>    So, how did you determine which beliefs were the right ones?
I thought he said by "backtracking", Elizabeth...so maybe the question should
be: how do you determine which beliefs are the wrong ones?  If you follow a
path of increased complexity/elaboration in your "forward" chain of belief,
backtracking might involve saying "is this really believable?" at each
iteration and then retreating to the next simplest level if it's not.  Once
you are at a belief system that is non-suspect, stop.  (How's that for an
algorithm, George?:-))

Occam's Razor might be of some use here (yes, I know that I have previously
derided this principle in this forum and elsewhere!!--but it's more that I
think it's a sometimes useful heuristic while other folk seem to treat it
as if it were a Law of Nature or something).  Beliefs that are overly
detailed and intricate versus the evidence for them (or the absence of any
evidence against them) are good candidates for suspicion, especially if
there are exotic cultural biases being dragged in (for instance, an afterlife
where people float on clouds and play harps, "ascended masters" who wear
saffron robes and chant Sanskrit mantras, past lives spent in an Atlantis that
resembles the Marvel or DC Comics version, etc.).  I don't think Occam's Razor
is a valid excuse for denying the existence (or non-existence) of God, the
existence of a soul, the concept of reincarnation, the reality of psychic
phenomena, planetary consciousness, etc.  But it can shave some of the more
elaborate stories too close for the comfort of their authors...quite rightly.
								paul c.

  Paul I liked the algorithm.You have very accurately described what I
meant by back tracking.Elizabeth I know that no one can know something
to be true with absolute and complete certainty.I do feel that I want
some tangible reasons for what I believe.The reason I believe in psychic
phenomena is because of personal experiences.With out some threshold
before believing something anything could be possible.You would be at
the mercy of the (papers?) like the Sun (woman trapped in crystal ball).
Another potential danger is the use of fear by unscrupulous people to
manipulate those who have a low threshold of believing.

                             George D.

    

    I like Paul's back-tracking algorithm.  The only problem is that
    what you find believable, John may not.  It will still work for
    both of you, but recognize that you may arrive at different places.
    
    A major thing I look at is *why* a person is trying to convince
    you of something unproven or unprovable?  Will he make money? Gain
    power over you?  Sell you a newspaper?  Gain "brownie points" within
    the belief system for making a convert?  Or is he just explaining
    his beliefs, for you to accept or reject.
    
    Elizabeth

   > I like Paul's back-tracking algorithm.  The only problem is that
   > what you find believable, John may not.  It will still work for
   > both of you, but recognize that you may arrive at different places.
    

 I totally agree that people will and should believe differently, our
lives, focus,and personal experiences are very different.

                   George D. 

    re; 12.35
    
    I know how hard it is to backtrack on your belief systems.  I know
    how painful it can be.  Your beliefs become a part of you, and when
    you backtrack, you take away these parts of yourself, and there
    is not always an immediate replacement, so you walk around with
    what feels like a hole.  At this time is when patience is your best
    friend, and belief in yourself is your saving grace.
    
    In the time since the severation of ties and implementation of
    shielding that came just after I wrote 12.34, many things have
    happened. The first reaction of the woman was to try and get into
    my head again; try and re-establish a hook in to me.  She did not
    succeed.  I have had much more energy, and things in my life are
    changing for the better.  I think much more clearly now.  Pieces
    of the puzzle of my life are falling into place, and I have new
    understanding.  My trust in myself enables me to more adequately
    use my inner sense of what is "right" and "wrong" *for me* ; I remember
    hearing a small voice inside of me, telling me that what I was hearing
    from this woman was dangerous to me; but my lack-of-trust at that
    time, in myself, guided me away from my Center.  I now know that
    that voice is my own inner sense of truth.  I would say that, if
    something sounds to you to be too-good-to-be-true, then it probably
    *is*.  You can meditate (which facilitates contact with your inner
    sense of Truth) if you are in doubt about accepting a belief. 
    
    One particular thing, I would like to say, because I accept it as
    universal.
    
    If someone seems to be manipulating you to feel negatively toward
    others; if someone is telling you that you need to collect a karmic
    debt from someone else in a way that seems detrimental to that other
    person; if someone is harping on unsavory things about others; beware,
    because there is more to the story than meets the eye, and chances
    are, you *really* don't want to be involved in it.
    
    Meredith

    
    re; 12.0,1 (first few)
    
    	people who play on the highway should not be surprised to get
        	hit by a truck.
    	look both ways before crossing the street.
    
    fey mouse