Conference hydra::dejavu

    I have a friend who works here at DEC who had a similar experience
    with the Church of Scientology.  I wouldn't touch them with a ten
    foot pole.

    I once heard from a relative that the Scientologist "Church" bought
    a hotel in Florida for several million in cash[!].
    
    Whether true or hearsay, it points up one thing: it's good, when
    looking for enlightenment to chyeck out the organization's financial
    aspirations.  Those who require hefty fees should generally be viewed
    with some suspicion as opposed to others that don't.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    
    	I too once, while in a depressed state, picked up a copy of
    the L Ron Hubbard book "Dianetics". A couple of friends spied it
    sitting on my coffe table and remarked "Be careful; the people
    behind that WANT IT ALL". One said "read it if you like but be
    aware of that aspect". Somehow, I felt much better throwing it in
    the trash - 
    
    	Joe Jas
    

    
         Another thing to think about is that L. Ron Hubbard has
         written quite a lot of science fiction. Nothing wrong with
         that (I like science fiction) but the Dianetics stuff is
         the only supposidly non-fiction that I am aware of him
         writing. Makes me wonder what the foundations of his
         theories are. 
         
         				Lance
          
    

    Re .5:
    
    L Ron Hubbard _started_ as a science-fiction/fantasy writer.  Some
    of his better stuff includes _Final Blackout_, "Fear," and "Triton."
    There are periodically surfacing stories that his Dianetics (which
    was introduced in the pages of _Astounding Science Fiction_ [as
    _Analog_ was called in those days) was a conditional success, leading
    him both to develop Scientology and the "Church" to go with it.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    So is that why L. Ron had a rush of books out in the last two years?
    Seems to me there would be nothing to do but write books while living
    in exile on a ship at sea.
    
    Who did all the bucks go to after he died?
    
      Mikie?

     Hi all,
        I read Dianetics a couple of years ago when I was in same frame
    of mind as 262.5 I found it was dull boring and just a bunch of
    rambling thoughts that did'nt make sense sounds like "the church"
    works the same way E.S.T does another mind bending scam contrived
    to help the origenator of said "help" fill his pockets with the
    bendee's hard earned cash in his pocket.traditional "help" works
    if the person "helping" is not looking out to fill said pockets
    also I went using HMO so there was no incentive to drag out "treatment"
    for 4-5 years.Rev. Moon,Mr. Hubbard,Eairhart are just a bunch of
    shiesters looking to fill there coffers anyway possable.
    I still look at it like this,as soon as someone sez-
    "Tell you what I'm gonna do for you"WATCH OUT!!!
    
      (folding up and storing soapbox)
    
              have a merry Xmas,happy new year to all
    
                        Kevin
    
    

    Re .9, earlier:
    
    The latest issue of _Fate_ has an excellent lead article, "Beware
    of Bogus Gurus," which is excellent reading in this matter.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    several years ago the Reader's Digest did a terrifying expose
    of what happens to "potential trouble makers" the family and
    friends of Scientologists who don't think its the greatest thing
    going. It was a terrifying story...I won't go into details.
    A member of my family just left Scientology after 15 years--
    he was an early member--be ware--they treat computer scientists
    very well--but still this relative was sucked dry of some 6-digit
    amount of money over the years. He finally left in disgust over
    the restrictions on personal life. And he never got 'clear' after
    all that! Its definitely a cult--and they use celebrities (Karen
    Black, john travolta?, Priscilla Presley and her daughter Lisa,
    to show the world that they are cool...but from one affected by
    it as a family member--it was a heartbreaking experience--very much
    a cult and a money-making operation that uses techniques that are
    similar to blackmail or extortion to keep members involved and
    contributing).
    My family is glad--after 15 years--to be free of the L.Ron.-shadow!
    
    

> Not to be a wet blanket, but some people must consider Scientology
> their religion (as opposed to their "cult"), so be a little bit
> careful about how you phrase your criticisms.  
   
  So what. It is a cult. People involved have been taken. How do
  you say that politely?

> It sounds like a money-making scam to me too, but any non-believer could
> say that about any organized religion 

  You're right, and they'd be right.

  The Church of Scientology has some sacred writings, available only after
  years of study, which are said to reveal the mysteries including creation.
  Fortunately the Boston Globe saved us countless thousands and printed 
  these writings (The Church said if anyone not ready read these they would
  become warped). Obviously I read them and they sound remarkably similar
  to L. Ron's own stuff. I'm not implying that he fabricated religious 
  documents, rather he took sacred writings known only to him and used them
  as the foundations to his literary efforts. He plagiarizes from GOD.  


  John   ;^)

    In doing a search for my kidnapped son, I came across a number
    for help with emancipation from cults---703-268-5827.
    I talked to them, they are concerned, helpful kind people.
    
    vivian
    

    I had a very short experience with the group.  I had a friend who
    was involved.  He encouraged me to come in for a sort of "evaluation".
    During this procedure you take some tests, speak to several people
    (etc) all in turn.  After two of the tests and speaking with one
    guy who seemed anoyed that I asked him some questions (and they
    were only in honest curiosity) I decided to leave before the next
    set of tests.  I took my coat and left.  One of the members (who
    I found out later was supposed to be watching me!) came running
    out on to the street and gave me a very hadr time about leaving.
    That only turned me off more, so I went home.  Later I got calls
    from many and various other people begging, pleading, and finally
    ordering me to come back.  Even the guy that was supposed to stop
    me from leaving called me and told me that he would be in big trouble
    if I didn't come back.  I don't know if that was true, but I think
    it could have been.  Needless to say I never went back.  From what
    I have read and seen since, I guess I was lucky. 

    	The dianetics movement started in 1950 with the publication
    of "dianetics" and an article in Street + Smiths Astounding Science
    fiction magazine.    It was a farily healthy movement, until the
    US government and the AMA opposed it and started to prosecute people
    for practicing medicine without a liscence.    Then L. Ron left
    the country and bought his yacht, and the church was formed.   At
    this time the fees were started.
    	The fees charged are similar to those charged by any psychiatrist,
    and as with psychiatrists, there are good ones and bad ones.
    	My parents were running a "dianetics" group in our house in
    the early 1950's, and were founding members of the church, but dropped
    out later as the movement degenerated.    None of us were ever
    hassled for leaving, although I know others have been.
    
    	L Ron Hubbard wrote the book "Dianetics", but used a lot of
    material generated by others, without giving credit.    When the
    church was formed, researchers that disagreed with Hubbard were
    left out of the group, and he took credit for all the advances.
    Many splinter groups have formed, and some forms of therapy are
    based on technique similar to Dianetics ( for instance "Primal
    Scream" therapy, from Arthur Janov)
    	When the AMA came down heavy, Hubbard militarized his
    organization (he was an Annapolis graduate, someone told me,
    the roommate of Robert Heinlein.) and I don't really blame him,
    since the war waged against him was somewhat unfair.   I think
    he visualized the church as an army of healers, trained to save
    the world from repressed trauma.    IT REMAINS TO BE SEEN HOW
    MUCH GOOD OR EVIL WILL COME OF THIS MOVEMENT.   The judgement
    is not all in yet !
    	The scientologists have done some good in opposing the abuse
    of electro-shock therapy, and have also harrased and hurt people.
    It is clear that the therapy method IS NOT FOR EVERYBODY !
    It does a lot of people good, but some people are harmed, and have
    ended up in institutions.
    
    	I am not a member of the church, although I took a few classes
    to find out more about my own family history.    Scientology is
    not entirely a negative, *evil*, group of people.   There are many
    good scientologists, and many people have been healed or helped
    by them.    It is also a money grubbing business organization.
    The church has degenerated over time but still contains a lot of
    good potential.
    
    	Finally:    EVERYTHING they teach for maximum $$$ is available
    free in your public library.   Dianetics started as a science, where
    theories could be challenged and changed.  Hubbard was FORCED to
    start the church, but now theories have become dogma, for many of
    the members.
    	Hubbard apparently became disgusted with the organization a
    few years ago, and went back to writing sci-fi.   Some people tried
    to wrest control of the church from him in court (including his
    family members).   His recent fiction mentions NOTHING about
    dianetics or scientology.   I hear he died recently.
    
    	I do not ever intend to get involved with these people again,
    but would not count out all possibilities.    Scientology still
    fascinates me, and I do not think the movement can be properly
    characterized as either all good or all evil.   I really do expect
    some good to still come of it.   Lets not throw out the baby with
    the bath water.
    
    Alan.