Conference hydra::dejavu

    My favorite of the ancient little-g gods was Tehuti, or as the barbaric
    Greeks called him, Thoth.  Tehuti was one of the great gods of the
    pantheon of Khem (Pharaonic Egypt), and was the patron god of science,
    writing, mathematics, and magic, all of which I both have experience
    with and identify with.
    
    I admire Tehuti because he was the most intellectual of the ancient
    pantheon, and a key member of the Annead, of great gathering of
    gods.
    
    There is no other of the little-g gods ("neteru," in Egyptian
    terminology) in any of the other pantheons whom I admire as much.
    
    However, I have a sneaking fondness for Bast, of the Khemite pantheon,
    for she was the goddess of cats, and I really am very fond of cats
    of all sizes.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    re .1:
    
    Lest anybody get the wrong idea, I do not worship any little-g god;
    my Christianity is sufficiently conventional to preclude that. 
    But some of the Khemite pantheon are considerably more civilized
    than the overgrown juvinile delinquents found in many of the other
    pantheons.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

Please don't think that I am abandoning this topic.  I am busy getting
some information on Cernnunos and possibly Mithra. 

Steve, I understand that Toth is also called Hermes Trismegistus.  I also 
undertand that hw wrote Tabulae Smaragina.  Was Toth human at one time
then diefied?

                                (*)
           

This is my entry to the little gods topic.  

I am particurarly drawn to the Cernnunos because it is a representation of 
the old Religion that worshiped the Horned God.  The Horned God was a
personalization of fertility, the change of seasons, the thrust of
life upon the Goddess (mother earth) and also the guardian of the
underworld.

Cernnunos was widely worshiped through out the Euorpeian and Mediterrian
areas under different names.  The local version of the god was called by
different names and I suppect that Cernnunos was origionaly Amun Ra.
Another name may have been Dispater.

Cernnunos may have beerrn the shaman diefied and is reasonable beleived
to be the father or fist of the Celtic pantheon.  

Cernnunos dosen't have as many surviving relics as do other more well
known gods becuase the Roman armies and later the christian church attempted
to remove all vestments of this shaman become god Cernnunos.  

The druids were very active with Cernnunos.  When the druids died out
Cernnunos went with them.

The reason I like this legend is that Cernnunos was turned into and
villified by the christian churches. 
Cernnunos is the prime reason that Satan (Satrun?) has horns.  The christians
fear Cernnunos because Cernnunos was the god of the underworld.  He was
the god of return to the elemintial nature. 

    for a "little g" god I am particularly drawn to the goddess
    Habandonia, consort of Cernnunos.  She represents growth and fertility,
    life, light, warmth and the manifestation of the "big G" God in the 
    creation of the universe.  She has been identified with Isis and Diana.
    
    Other gods that I appreciate are Thoth, for his wisdom, and Krishna
    (Vishnu) for his gifts to mankind on exposing God to humans.
    
    /Kathleen

    re .3:
    
    >Steve, I understand that Toth is also called Hermes Trismegistus
    
    Well, sort of.  Thoth (Tehuti) really was around long before the
    Greeks had sorted out their pantheon.  However, since the educated
    Greeks generally went to Khem to study during the hjeight of their
    culture and after (so much for Greece as the "cradle of civilization";
    they got some of their ideas from a much older and wiser culture),
    in the typically arrogant fashion they had at the time, they identified
    the Khemite gods as aspects of their own.  One of theit identifications
    was Thoth with Hermes.  However, Hermes was nowhere near being the
    god Thoth was, so to characterize Thoth, he was referred to as the
    Thrice-greatest Hermes (i.e., Thoth=3*[Hermes]).  An actual comparison
    of the attributes of the two would reveal an acute case of
    Hellenocentrism on the part of the Greeks.
    
    On his writing any works, that's more complex.  Although originally
    Apollo was more or less the god of magic under the Greek pantheon,
    the identification (inappropriate as it was) of Hermes with Thoth
    led to Hermes acquiring a magical component; by the Medieval period,
    the study of magical and alchemical subjects was collectively called
    "Hermetics," and several writings were executed under the Hermes
    Trismegiistus signature.  They haven't been demonstrated to be of
    Khemite origin, and probably are much later.
    
    As fas as I 've been able to find out, Thoth started out as a little-g
    god.  And a very unusual one, since his effectiveness was as one
    who brought thought, reason, and things often not associated with
    little-g gods.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Does LOKI count?
    

I guess Thor is probably my favorite ... I've always assumed that he's the Norse
equivalent  of  Aries/Mars,  ruler  of  my birth sign.  However, Thor has always
seemed to have more compassion associated with his incredible power ... sort  of
the  "fist  in  a  velvet  glove"  picture.   Besides,  I've always been fond of
thunderstorms.

Of course, I've held a fondness for the Goddess and  God  of  the  Old  Religion
(mentioned earlier) since I learned of them about a decade ago.

Terry

    re .7:
    
    At least to ten... :-)
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.
    

    Xochipilli.  He is Prince of Flowers, patron of weaver, craftworkers,
    lovers, musicians, and gameplayers.  Worshipped (without human
    sacrifice) by the Aztecs, but predates that culture and outlasted
    it.

    Pat Hardy
    

    I just started reading this notes file and am intrigued with what
    I have found in it so far.  Anyways, maybe some of you can help
    out.
    
    Just the other weekend on the Cape I frequented my favorite antiques
    shop.  this shop has many eccentric things and some of them are
    ancient egyptian artifacts.  Trinkets if you will.  Well, dying
    for a new charm to put on my necklace, and not having the dough
    for a nice antique gold charm, I noticed some of the egyptian amulets
    that he had there.  They were quite unique, and wanting something
    different, I chose one.
    
    He had four or five of a falcon, according to the mans wife, it
    was the egyptian god Toth, god of power and wisdom.  I held the
    one amulet that I have now, and I looked at the others, but they
    just didn't do anything for me.  My Toth felt like the best.
    
    Now don't get me wrong, I don't worship this icon by any means.
    This amulet is neat!  A good converstaion piece, and for $15 a neat
    price for a piece of the past.  (There is a 9 in 10 chance that
    it is about 3500+ years old).
    
    I referenced one of my ancient egyptian books, and it appears that
    Toth was one of the first three: there was Isis, Osiris, and Horus.
    Toth came around to avenge the death of Horus by killing someone-
    I think Osiris.  Anyways, in the book that I looked at, Toth is
    usually represented as a Baboon or Ape, and Horus is the Falcon
    or Hawk.  It didn't mention anywhere that Toth represented the god
    of power and wisdom.
    
    Can some of you folks give me some assistance here?  i would really
    appreciate what you could pass along, or any books that you know
    of that are good reference points.  thanks!
    
    Leigh Staffon

    Re .12:
    
    Your books have the mythologies mixed up a bit.
    
    Thoth (as said in the Greek fashion) is generally represented by
    an ibis (a crane-like bird).  Thoth (or Tahut, to use something
    more Egyptian) is sometimes also represented by a baboon, though
    more often the baboon isd an attendant.
    
    The three you're thinking of are Osiris (Egyptian = Asar), Isis
    (Egyptian = Ast), and their son, Horus (Egyptian = Heru).  Osiris
    was killed by his brother, Set, who claimed rulership of the gods.
    He was challenged by Horus (who indeed is represented as
    falcon-headed); a long trial ensued, and the final judgement, rendered
    through Thoth, was that Horus was the legitimate claimant to rulership.
    
    Thoth was often called upon to act as a judge, and was supposed
    to be involved in the judging of the souls of the dead (those who
    passed went to Tuat, the Egyptian afterlife; those who failed were
    destroyed utterly.  An interesting feature of Tuat was that it was
    _exactly_ like "live" Egypt.  Osiris ruled Tuat, though Anubis was
     the god of the dead.
                   
    So, any falcon figure won't represent Thoth; it'll represent Horus.
    
    Hope that helps.
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr. 

    That does indeed help!  thanks!  8^>
    
    So, now that I know that Horus IS the Falcon, what were his definite
    powers?  Were they "all knowing" and "all powerful", or was he
    connected to one ideal , i.e as the god Mars is affiliated with
    war?
    
    Another interesting fact about Horus is that Thoth (Toth, whatever!)
    saved or resurrected Horus with some of his "magic".  Apparently
    on many of the tombs there is the "Eye(s) of Horus" which in actuallity
    is a fration equalling 63/64.  i can't draw in the details,
    unfortunately, but the last 1/64 was supplied by Thoth.
    
    Still curious as to the "meaning" of this amulet.  With a little
    of the superstitious in me, I am not too keen on wearing the god
    of the dead!!!  ;^> 
    
    Leigh

    Well, sort of inverse order:
    
    Actually, Thoth is the god of writing, science, mathematics, and
    magic.  All things where one is using ones head, as it were.
    Resurrection wasn't something he was known to indulge in much.
    
    As to Horus.  He's listed primarily as a solar deity, but he takes
    on other sky attributes (there was a lot or overlap among some of
    the ancient Egyptian gods -- for instance, the world was created
    either by Re, Ptath, or Khephera, depending upon which story you
    read).  The right eye of Horus is the general "eye of Horus," "all-
    seeing eye," or good-luck sign seen on many Mediterranean fishing
    vessels.  It represents the sun.  the left eye of Horus, the
    complement, represents the moon.
    
    Horus had many god attributes, but he was best known as the avenger
    of Osiris (though Set wasn't killed in the process).  The early
    Egyptian Copts (primitive Christians) identified Osiris, Isis, and
    Horus with the Holy Family of Joseph, Mary, and Jesus respectively.
    One difficulty with Egyptian gods was that they could merge into
    multiple gods like Re-Horus-Khephera, with combined attributes.
    These usually were triple gods, and it may be no coincidence that
    when the Council of Nicea was convened to determine doctrine on
    the relation of Jesus to Jehovah (among other things), many of the
    participants were Egyptian Christians.
    
    Horus often is shown in statues and drawings as a child -- usually
    about eight to ten years old, but sucking his thumb.  This aspect
    of Horus, "the Child Horus," was named by the Greeks "Harpokrates."
                         
    Whatever else one could say about Horus, he's been considered to
    be a protector.
    
    Hope that helps more. 
    
    Steve Kallis, Jr.

    
    ...well, after having read Tom Robbins "Jitterbug Perfume", I can
    easily say that my favorite (little g) god (though I guess I almost,
    actually consider him a big g God) is ...PAN..!!!
    
      i've always been interested in him, and the book (although it is
    fiction) gave me some better insight to him...
    
       rowdy, lusty, lover of free-wheeling nymphs...who couldn't love
    him...!!  maybe it's cuz i'm rowdy, lusty, and a free-wheeling
    nymph myself..!!!
    
        kat
    

    Arionrhod ...
    
    This is just another name fore Diana/Isis/Astarte ... who's meaning
    has already been mentioned years ago :-)
    
    What I especially like is the name - Arionrhod means Silver Circle
    - and the trinity Virgin - Mother/Lover - Hag. I like  the wholeness
    this image represents, not denying the "destructive" side.
    
    Karin

    Can you tell us more about her Karin?  I'd love to hear whatever 
    information you have.
    
    Mary

re: .18 (Mary)

    There is a book titled _The Triple Goddess_ that deals with these
    three aspects of various goddess figures (Mother,maiden, and hag).
    Very interesting.  I can't remember the author's name :-(

    Terry

Mary,

I haven't been reading in Dejavu since about a week, so please
excuse my late reply. 

As you probably know the Celts were not very favourable of writing
so there are many stories about gods and goddesses which slightly
vary. Also different names were used in Ireland, Wales and Gallia
which makes things even more complicated. So I hope I can remember
the stories well (if not, someone my please correct me).
Anyway, here goes the story of Arionrhod (sometimes also spelled
Arianrod):

The Saga (Wales)

MATH, father of all magic, who may be associated with the roman god
JUPITER, cannot live in another way, than having both his feet resting 
in the womb of a virgin - a symbol for the unseperated resting in 
the womb of the mother. To split this unit the myth uses two sons 
of MATH's cousin DON. One of DON's sons falls in love with the 
virgin and the other, GWYDION, assists him in his desire. Now the 
only problem they have is making MATH leave the womb. Therefore 
they provocate a war. 

GWYDION convinces MATH, Lord of the North, to ask PRYDERI, the 
Lord of the South, for his boars of the Other World, animals MATH 
does not know at all. GWYDION offers 12 wonderful horses to 
PRYDERI in exchange for the boars. These horses have been created 
by GWYDION's magic, which only lasts for a day, so PRYDERI and 
his knights ride into MATH's land to catch GWYDION, the thieve 
and gain back the boars. The battle begins.

During MATH's absence the brother who's in love steels the 
Virgin. When MATH comes back from the battle he punishes the two 
brothers by turning them inta a deer, a wild boar and a woolf 
time after time. All these animals are of both sexes at the same 
time (hermaphrodites). At the end of each year, when the animals 
come to greet MATH he takes away their children.

After a "reasonable" time MATH turns the brothers back into their 
human appearance. Now GWYDION offers his sister ARIONRHOD to MATH 
to replace the former virgin, GOEDWIN. ARIONRHOD claims to be a 
virgin. To proof this she has to walk over MATH's magic stick. In 
this very moment, unseen by MATH, two children drop out of 
ARIONRHOD'S womb. On of these boys immediately turns towards the 
sea and swimms faster than any fish. GWYDION hides the other one 
to bring him up himself.

The names of the two children stand for water and fire. The first 
shows his nature immediately the second  turns into an eagle when 
he is hurt by a spear. Due to GWYDION's healing abilities he 
gains back his human body and becomes king of some land MATH 
gives to him. His name becomes LLEW LLAW GYFRES and he is the 
last of the solar kings.

The Creation (Wicca)

The Goddess flows, alone, resting within herself, She, who has 
many names and yet may not be named, in the abyssos of the outer 
darkness, befor the beginning of anything. She looked into the 
mirror of the black space and recognized her own marvelous image, 
She fell in love with it. By the power within Herself she pulls
the image towards herself and unifies with it in love. She calls the 
image "Miria, the Wonderful".

Her ecstasy broke up in a song about everything that is and has 
been and will be. And out of this song came motion, generating 
waves that whirled and became the spheres and circles of all 
worlds. The Goddess was filled with love, She became round and 
warm and gave birth a rain of shining spirits which settled down in 
the worlds and became their creatures. During this wild motion 
Miria was seperated from the Goddess and by being seperated from 
the Goddess she became more and more masculine. First she was the 
Blue God, the gentle, smiling god of love; then she became the 
Green God, surrounded by wine leaves, whose roots are in the 
earth, the spirit of all growing things. Finally she became the 
Horned Hunter whose face is like the red glowing sun and yet as 
dark as death. His longing brings the Horned Hunter back to the 
Goddess and he will eternally try to unify with Her in love 
again.

Love is the origin of all there is. All searches to come back to 
love. Love is the rule, mother of wisdom, revealing the 
mysteries.

The wheel of the year (Wicca)

Arionrhod is the Great Mother who gives birth to the Horned 
Hunter as the sacrified child of the sun at winter solstice. 
During spring he is sawer and seed, growind with the incrementing 
light, green as a young sprig. She is the priestess, showing him 
the great mysteries. He is the young bull. She is the young nymph, 
the tempter(ess). At midsummer they unify and the energy they set 
free in their passion is what keeps the world up. Bu the face of 
the God darkens as the sun becomes weaker, until he offers 
Himself with the corn at the harvest so every living may have 
food. She is the cutter, the womb of the earth to which 
everything has to return. Through the long nights and dark days 
He sleeps in Her womb. In His dream is the Lord of Death reigning 
over the Land of Youth beyond the doors of day and night. His 
dark grave turns to the vessel of rebirth, 'cause in the middle 
of winter She gives birth to Him again. The cycle ends and 
beginns again, and the wheel of the year turns round and round 
...

Books about the Goddess:

The Golden Bough (Sir James Frazer)
The White Goddess (Robert Graves)
The Spiral Dance (Starhawk)
The Secret of the Celts (Lancelot Lengyel)


Love,
Karin

    My favorite God is Pan and my favorite Goddess is Gaia. These two
    personify everything for me as the All Mother/Father God.
    
    Bright blessings!
    Serenity

Diana (goddess of the moon, among other things)
Bacchus (god of revelry, among other things)

--ag

    Two...
    
    Thor
    
    And 
    
    Poseidon.
    
    Dave

    Ganymede.
    
    Jamie.